:: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::

Mazhar

Is it irrational and illogical answer for you when I say you "the Truth"? Learning English language is NOT necessary for me, you or anyone else. How can you force anyone on that.

Instead, I asked you to get me some aayaats from AlQuraan, is this important or learning English language for you? How you people judge!

Anyways, thanks for your prayers and same to you.

May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

Not learning English, but only to know what Pronouns mean and how are they used in the text. Stupid is he who does not know the basics like Pronouns and is boasting like a elevated scholar and passing verdicts even about the Messengers. It is nothing but hallucination and fascination caused by the Shaitaan.

savage_carrot

Mazhar, he wanted more clarification. To say he's being partially overcome by Shaitaan is counter productive. Abusing someone for not knowing grammar and yet daring to try and understand the quran while you do and have it all worked out is a form of elitism. If you can't help clarify your points further regarding what he asked, just walk away.

Mazhar

Mazhar, he wanted more clarification. To say he's being partially overcome by Shaitaan is counter productive. Abusing someone for not knowing grammar and yet daring to try and understand the quran while you do and have it all worked out is a form of elitism. If you can't help clarify your points further regarding what he asked, just walk away.

The issue is only about pronoun. You ask me placing before me two verses and insist in the manner he is saying, how will I make you understand except telling you to first acquaint yourself with what a Pronoun is in the language and why and where it is used. If you are not willing to know what Pronoun is heavens cant make you understand.

He brings Kum against Tum and makes his philosphy about every subject. One Pronoun is the Object of Verb and the other is the Subject of Verb. When you wish not to know a Pronoun what is the point that I might make you understand what is meant by subject and object in a language.

When people say something that amounts to a loud mouthm in a state of not aware of abc on that issue, rather they should be given a shut up call by the moderator. Freedom of speech does not mean to let every one talk all nonesense and idiotic things unchecked.

mmkhan

The issue is only about pronoun. You ask me placing before me two verses and insist in the manner he is saying, how will I make you understand except telling you to first acquaint yourself with what a Pronoun is in the language and why and where it is used. If you are not willing to know what Pronoun is heavens cant make you understand.

He brings Kum against Tum and makes his philosphy about every subject. One Pronoun is the Object of Verb and the other is the Subject of Verb. When you wish not to know a Pronoun what is the point that I might make you understand what is meant by subject and object in a language.

When people say something that amounts to a loud mouthm in a state of not aware of abc on that issue, rather they should be given a shut up call by the moderator. Freedom of speech does not mean to let every one talk all nonesense and idiotic things unchecked.

Did you try to explain me your point? NO!
Did you try to give me an example? NO!
Did you try to show me an aayat to explain your point? NO!
Then what you were doing? You know exactly what you were doing already.

Anyways, as per my understanding

Mazher always try to convince mmKhan without bringing forward any proof. He always do that to me.

As per the above sentence, "Mazher" is Subject and "mmKhan" is Object. And "He" is subject pronoun and "me" is object pronoun.

Am I correct sir? If not, please correct me and then put forward your point. If I am right, then what is your point?

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

Bender

Did you try to explain me your point? NO!
Did you try to give me an example? NO!
Did you try to show me an aayat to explain your point? NO!
Then what you were doing? You know exactly what you were doing already.

Anyways, as per my understanding

Mazher always try to convince mmKhan without bringing forward any proof. He always do that to me.

As per the above sentence, "Mazher" is Subject and "mmKhan" is Object. And "He" is subject pronoun and "me" is object pronoun.

Am I correct sir? If not, please correct me and then put forward your point. If I am right, then what is your point?

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

rotfl

savage_carrot

Okay, that was amusing.

Shut up calls? lol

I'd better start revising my pronouns now... P

Mazhar

Okay, that was amusing.

Shut up calls? lol

I'd better start revising my pronouns now... P

Yes, just calls, not the use of sword type thing in your hand--in avator.

Mazhar

Did you try to explain me your point? NO!

I had no point. I will try to explain your point.

Allah knows how to say otherwise...

267
267 And when Musa said to his people, "Indeed, Allah commands you to slaughter a cow." They said, "Do you take us in ridicule?" He said, "I seek refuge in Allah from being among the ignorant."

A pronoun refers to a Noun which has already been stated. Musa alahisalam said to HIS Nation. Now he is addressing his nation and Kum refers to his people with whom is face to face. And Kum is the Object of Verb.

255 ...
255 And when you said, "O Musa..."

261 ... 261 And when you said, "O Musa, we can never endure one food..."

The people referred by this pronoun are same people who are in the first example. Only role is different, now they are the Subject of Verb.

Moreover only the first consonant is second prerson pronoun and Meem indicates plurality.

Pronouns

Pronouns in Arabic belong to the category of "nouns." Therefore, everything that applies to nouns will apply to them. Pronouns have genders, numbers, and grammatical case. Pronouns are always definite nouns.

Pronouns in Arabic are four categories

Subject Pronouns

Separate Subject Pronouns

Attached Subject Pronouns

Object Pronouns

Separate Object Pronouns

Attached Object Pronouns

There is no harm in going through these 4-5 pages

Pronouns

savage_carrot

Yes sir. I'll get right on it.

Tbh Mazhar, when you explain things normally, I learn a lot from your posts. It's when you start with the arcane grammar speak that people's eyes generally glaze over. For example 'broken feminine plural'...and a silence descends in which we absorb the awe of what has just been revealed. To most it's like yeah and? To some it's maybe I shouldn't say anything at this point because it obviously must mean something important but I don't know why and I won't ask because what if everyone else knows and I'm the only one who doesn't. A few ask for further clarification and get abused for it p

But I appreciate you taking the time out and explaining things for those of us who have no idea what your point is )

mmkhan

I had no point. I will try to explain your point.

Allah knows how to say otherwise...

267
267 And when Musa said to his people, "Indeed, Allah commands you to slaughter a cow." They said, "Do you take us in ridicule?" He said, "I seek refuge in Allah from being among the ignorant."

A pronoun refers to a Noun which has already been stated. Musa alahisalam said to HIS Nation. Now he is addressing his nation and Kum refers to his people with whom is face to face. And Kum is the Object of Verb.

Oh! Thanks for accepting that you don't have any point. I was simply taking stress!

I know that, where did I say KUM is not referring to HIS people?

The people referred by this pronoun are same people who are in the first example. Only role is different, now they are the Subject of Verb.

Moreover only the first consonant is second prerson pronoun and Meem indicates plurality.

Now, here is the problem! How can you decide that people referred by this pronoun are same people mentioned in 267? This is what I was asking you for supporting aayat for your claim.

When Allah used KUM in 267, to avoid confusion, He clearly mentioned by adding "li-qaumihi", so that you should not take it to yourselves unlike 255

Otherwise, why it has not been clarified in 255 by adding the same or similar word? There are no assumptions in TheBook of Allah, everything has been made very clear. But you are assuming that 255 refers to same people mentioned in 267 without any support from other aayaats.

Did you get my point? This was my point when I asked you to compare the construction and design of those two aayaats. Didn't I say knowing about pronouns or English language is irrelevant to understand Allah's message?

Pronouns

Pronouns in Arabic belong to the category of "nouns." Therefore, everything that applies to nouns will apply to them. Pronouns have genders, numbers, and grammatical case. Pronouns are always definite nouns.

Pronouns in Arabic are four categories

Subject Pronouns

Separate Subject Pronouns

Attached Subject Pronouns

Object Pronouns

Separate Object Pronouns

Attached Object Pronouns

There is no harm in going through these 4-5 pages

Pronouns

I am really thankful for explaining all this and thanks for the link.

BTW, is that you Mazhar in that picture in given link above? If it is you, where is your beard brother? Oh sorry for fftopic

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

mmkhan

For example

Salaam SC,

rotfl

BTW, what mean tbh? Sorry, I am asking beside your example

But I appreciate you taking the time out and explaining things for those of us who have no idea what your point is

You are appreciating on wrong thing. He said he don't have a point.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmkhan

Mazhar

Oh! Thanks for accepting that you don't have any point. I was simply taking stress!

I know that, where did I say KUM is not referring to HIS people?
Now, here is the problem! How can you decide that people referred by this pronoun are same people mentioned in 267? This is what I was asking you for supporting aayat for your claim.

When Allah used KUM in 267, to avoid confusion, He clearly mentioned by adding "li-qaumihi", so that you should not take it to yourselves unlike 255

Otherwise, why it has not been clarified in 255 by adding the same or similar word? There are no assumptions in TheBook of Allah, everything has been made very clear. But you are assuming that 255 refers to same people mentioned in 267 without any support from other aayaats.

Did you get my point? This was my point when I asked you to compare the construction and design of those two aayaats. ...

The discourse of 255 starts from 247 by addressing the Nation of Musa alahissalam.

In 254 are the same words--- . The conversations that took place in the past on various occassions are reported verbatem. The same people of his nation are talking to Musa alahissalam.

I recall I had mentioned earlier about conjunction followed by adverb . One also need to study adverbs to understand a written text of any language.

Mazhar

Yes sir. I'll get right on it.

Tbh Mazhar, when you explain things normally, I learn a lot from your posts. It's when you start with the arcane grammar speak that people's eyes generally glaze over. For example 'broken feminine plural'...and a silence descends in which we absorb the awe of what has just been revealed. To most it's like yeah and? To some it's maybe I shouldn't say anything at this point because it obviously must mean something important but I don't know why and I won't ask because what if everyone else knows and I'm the only one who doesn't. A few ask for further clarification and get abused for it p

But I appreciate you taking the time out and explaining things for those of us who have no idea what your point is

'broken feminine plural'. The text comprises of words, phrases and sentence. Many people "understand" Qur'aan and base their "disertations" without working on any of three parts of text as they sanely do with all other texts of other languages and books.

Such word has its own identity and meanings and effect upon other words in the Text. Unless one identifies individual words and knows their particularities, you tell me, what he is understanding could either be Heavens telling him or some whispers of Shaitan make him so understand.

savage_carrot

You are appreciating on wrong thing. He said he don't have a point.

Haha...oops, I'm being scolded now for abbreviating something so...I'll just sit in the corner and watch the fireworks.

'broken feminine plural'. The text comprises of words, phrases and sentence. Many people "understand" Qur'aan and base their "disertations" without working on any of three parts of text as they sanely do with all other texts of other languages and books.

Such word has its own identity and meanings and effect upon other words in the Text. Unless one identifies individual words and knows their particularities, you tell me, what he is understanding could either be Heavens telling him or some whispers of Shaitan make him so understand.

I agree with you Mazhar. We look at whatever we need to look at to better understand. Most people have problems with arabic because that's not their native language and so need some extra help, is all. In as clear a way as possible. When I came to the forum, bro Ayman helped me out a lot patiently and still does with arabic etc, he's an awesome teacher (and he doesn't scold me p).

Bender

Yes sir. I'll get right on it.

Tbh Mazhar, when you explain things normally, I learn a lot from your posts. It's when you start with the arcane grammar speak that people's eyes generally glaze over. For example 'broken feminine plural'...and a silence descends in which we absorb the awe of what has just been revealed. To most it's like yeah and? To some it's maybe I shouldn't say anything at this point because it obviously must mean something important but I don't know why and I won't ask because what if everyone else knows and I'm the only one who doesn't. A few ask for further clarification and get abused for it p

But I appreciate you taking the time out and explaining things for those of us who have no idea what your point is

Salaam,

I totally agree. It always costs me a lot of time just to translate his posts (the ones which are full of grammar terms) let alone understanding them. Even translators have trouble with some of those terms. When he explains normally it's more refreshing.

Mazhar

Salaam,

I totally agree. It always costs me a lot of time just to translate his posts (the ones which are full of grammar terms) let alone understanding them. Even translators have trouble with some of those terms. When he explains normally it's more refreshing.

Perhaps, I have to bring in the grammar with those posts where some friends of the forum handle Ayah at their own assigning them meanings by seeing similar looking words at some other places. I will try to make terms simpler by defining or giving their meanings and connotations they add to the sentences.

But you just see that there are 58 pages discussion where our sister moderator is very active, discussion is going on and on without firt determining the meanings of words which is neither a noun nor an idiom but a complete sentence. Even for English word used making it the premises of the thread none cares to see whether it is abstract or a substantive noun.

savage_carrot

Perhaps, I have to bring in the grammar with those posts where some friends of the forum handle Ayah at their own assigning them meanings by seeing similar looking words at some other places. I will try to make terms simpler by defining or giving their meanings and connotations they add to the sentences.

But you just see that there are 58 pages discussion where our sister moderator is very active, discussion is going on and on without firt determining the meanings of words which is neither a noun nor an idiom but a complete sentence. Even for English word used making it the premises of the thread none cares to see whether it is abstract or a substantive noun.

You wound me Mazhar, deeply p Discussion goes on for different reasons...in the case of that thread in particular I already have notes regarding the subject 'grammatically'; (neither did I read most of your posts or most of the other posters on that thread) I like discussing from different angles. Not only does it broaden my understanding, but it also helps me tear it down to basics via reasoning as opposed to myopic examinations when confronted with another pov regardless of it being 'crazy talk'. It's more rigid for you, I can appreciate that (mmkhan, this time I finally might be appreciating the right thing)...but don't think that other people should always discuss in ways that you'd heartily approve of.

mmkhan

Well, I will try to give you some others aayaats to see how they are constructed.

4028
4028 And a believing man said who was from the family of Pharaoh who concealed his faith, "Do you kill a man because he says, 'My Lord is Allah ' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he should be lying, then upon him is his lie; but if he should be truthful, there will strike you some of what he promises you. Indeed, Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar.

4029
4029 O my people, sovereignty is yours today, dominant in the land. But who would protect us from the punishment of Allah if it came to us?" Pharaoh said, "I do not show you except what I see, and I do not guide you except to the way of right conduct."

4030
4030 And he who believed said, "O my people, indeed I fear for you like the day of the companies

4031
4031 Like the custom of the people of Nooh and of 'Aad and Thamud and those after them. And Allah wants no injustice for servants.

4032
4032 And O my people, indeed I fear for you the Day of Calling

When it is mentioned that the one who believed started saying in 4028, then what is use of repeating it by saying "the one who believed said" in 4030? Why no subject pronoun is used?

When already it is said in "yaa qaumi" in 4029, why is it necessary to use the same word in 4030 and 4032, where we already know whom this person is addressing.

What your grammar says on this?

Another example

3330
3330 O wives of the Prophet, whoever of you should commit a clear immorality - for her the punishment would be doubled two fold, and ever is that, for Allah , easy.

3331
3331 And whoever of you devoutly obeys Allah and His Messenger and does righteousness - We will give her her reward twice; and We have prepared for her a noble provision.

3332
3332 O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft in speech , lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech.

Now, please educate me Mazhar with you grammar.

1- Who is mentioned in 3331, if you say, they are referring to wives of the prophet, then why 3332 again used "O wives of the prophet"?

2- If you say, they are referring not to wives of the prophet, but it is general for all, then why you are mixing up 255 and 267?

Other points we will discuss later after clarifying this first, inshaAllah. Other points also includes Bani Israel is different than Musa's qaum.

May Allah increase me in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

Mazhar