question about dress code

unknownuser

is a collective noun and is conjunct with Waw. Therefore, it shows that the dress functions to veil the body as feathers. Hence beautification are not the meaning but inference. Today, we need to study what feathers do for a bird. Birds are warm blooded and we know the heat is something constantly in flow. Warm blooded birds and we human need to maintain a certain body temperature.

"Feathers perform a number of functions for a bird. Firstly, they provide insulation, this is very important in a warm blooded animal (body temperature of most birds is maintained at around 40C). It is believed by most scientists that this insulating effect was the primary force driving the evolution of feathers, i.e. ancestral birds developed feathers to keep themselves warm. Feathers also protect birds from UV light.

Secondly, feathers allow for flight. Scientists believe that flight evolved in birds as a result of their possessing basic feathers and that this added selective pressure to the evolution of feathers making them larger, stronger and refining their structure. Thirdly, feathers control what a bird looks like. A plucked chicken or pigeon looks very different to a fully feathered one. Feathers supply the bird with colours allowing for camouflage and secondary sexual characteristics and sexual display. Consider the tail feathers of a peacock."

The purpose of wearings is also given in 1681 where heat phenomenon is specifically mentioned. Let us read Qur'aan while remaining in 21st century and forget about inference of beautification, and literally take it as functioning like feathers. This will also show that dress code for women and men is different and is reflective as third sexual characteristic. Beard and bossoms being the secondary sexual characteristic. Thanks.

Ok, Agreed )

Mazhar

Ok, Agreed )

I hope agreed on merit, not because of other reasos, if any.

unknownuser

I hope agreed on merit, not because of other reasos, if any.

No I mean it, what you said makes perfect sense, I have no reason to disagree with it

loxbox13

Hi !
First I don't know arabic language so I want to make e few questions about women dress code in Quran.
Yusuf Ali

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.. (Quran 2431)

1.Which "beauty" they should not display and which "beauty" they should display (how to define "beauty&quot
a) To their father, housband...?
b) To strangers
2.Whats arabic word for "beauty" and is this verse translated correctly by Yusuf Ali (or does this translate has "hadiths" influence?
3. Is face of woman part of her beauty and should a woman cover her face as part of beauty ?

And here is another verse
translated by Yusuf Ali

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad) that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (3359)

Translated by Rashad Khalifa

O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. (3359)

Why Yusuf Ali translated "over their persons" and Rashad didn't ?
Which arabic word is translated "persons" and what does this exactly mean ?
Which arabic words are translated "lengthen" and "garments" ?
What is the meaning of "lengthen their garments"?
And the last
Is haram to go a woman in beach and if no what should be the "dress code" for a woman in beach?

Peace

ZINAT has nothing to do with beauty, but it is GOODS and WEALTH
beauty is called HUSN
these verses aren't talking about any dress code, it is talking about been secretive about ones wealth and possessions

unknownuser

ZINAT has nothing to do with beauty, but it is GOODS and WEALTH
beauty is called HUSN
these verses aren't talking about any dress code, it is talking about been secretive about ones wealth and possessions

I agree with you, Zeenat does mean adornment, however, when I was interpreting this verse while taking Zeenat as adornment alone, I had a question for which I was not able to find an answer for

In the list of exceptions of the people by whom the Zeenat can be seen; What do 'Attendants/helpers without desire', and 'Children who have no knowledge of a woman's shame/privacy/sexuality/private parts' have anything to do with wealth?

If you are able to answer the above question, then I might reconsider my interpretation.

Peace

loxbox13

I agree with you, Zeenat does mean adornment, however, when I was interpreting this verse while taking Zeenat as adornment alone, I had a question for which I was not able to find an answer for

In the list of exceptions of the people by whom the Zeenat can be seen; What do 'Attendants/helpers without desire', and 'Children who have no knowledge of a woman's shame/privacy/sexuality/private parts' have anything to do with wealth?

If you are able to answer the above question, then I might reconsider my interpretation.

Peace

if you take any verse where the word ZEENATAN is mentioned, it's always about wealth, goods, , wealth and goods are obvious, possessions of value, like money, connection etc... the day of zeenat , is the day where everybody is celebrating, like a holiday , where everyone dress nice, and be in good mood
now, KHUMUR , aren't veils over the head, but KHUMUR means hiding/conceiling, and JUYUB, is pluriel of JEYB, wich means, pocket, box, chest , case, coffre etc...

it's talking about private possessions in general , and there are no cloths mentioned here

the main point in these verses , is , he is not talking about femeles only, but male and femeles, and when talking about the two genders, the quran speak to them in a femele style, opposed to al other languages, in the quran, the femele group when mixte with the male group, they are addressed as a femele group
in this verse, he said firs say to the MOUMININ .. and to the MOUMINATE... And they shall conceal their goods... he's talking about, the mouminine, and mouminate, re-read the verse from the begining

Mazhar

if you take any verse where the word ZEENATAN is mentioned, it's always about wealth, goods, , wealth and goods are obvious, possessions of value, like money, connection etc...

unknownuser

if you take any verse where the word ZEENATAN is mentioned, it's always about wealth, goods, , wealth and goods are obvious, possessions of value, like money, connection etc... the day of zeenat , is the day where everybody is celebrating, like a holiday , where everyone dress nice, and be in good mood
now, KHUMUR , aren't veils over the head, but KHUMUR means hiding/conceiling, and JUYUB, is pluriel of JEYB, wich means, pocket, box, chest , case, coffre etc...

it's talking about private possessions in general , and there are no cloths mentioned here

the main point in these verses , is , he is not talking about femeles only, but male and femeles, and when talking about the two genders, the quran speak to them in a femele style, opposed to al other languages, in the quran, the femele group when mixte with the male group, they are addressed as a femele group
in this verse, he said firs say to the MOUMININ .. and to the MOUMINATE... And they shall conceal their goods... he's talking about, the mouminine, and mouminate, re-read the verse from the begining

Peace,

Ok, we'll take Zeenat to refer to wealth and goods. But please give me a logical and reasonable answer to the question I asked you. That is

In the list of exceptions of the people by whom the Zeenat can be seen; What do 'Attendants/helpers without desire', and 'Children who have no knowledge of a woman's shame/privacy/sexuality/private parts' have anything to do with wealth?

Khumur orginates from the root of 'Khmr', and 'Khmr' refers to a 'Covering'. However, to understand the Quran, I think we should first see how the people to whom the Quran was directly being revealed to understood it, once we are done with that, only then we can interpret according to our understanding/era. Cause if keep on using modern Arabic, then God knows what type of interpretations we'll come to. According to classical Arabic dictionaries, Khimar specifically referred to a woman's headscarf/scarf/head veil.
Same case with Jayb. In modern Arabic it means 'Pocket', but pockets didn't come into existence till a very long time, according to classical Arabic dictionaries, it refers to a garment's neckline, or an opening in a garment. The same word appears in 2832, where God orders Moses to put his hand in his 'Jayb', and it only makes sense to refer to his sleeve opening; underarm. This is further strengthened by the Biblical account of his story. So in 2431, it refers to a woman's shirt's neckline. If you insist that Jayb refers to treasure chests/boxes, then don't you think the Arabs would at least know not to expose their treasures? I mean, they weren't that stupid, were they?
Can you please explain to me, with references your understanding of God addressing men and women as females? Your the first person who is saying that. By reading 2430-31, it clearly shows that God is giving separate orders to Muminin and Muminat, as two different types of Momins, that is, male momins and female momins. According to classical Arabic dictionaries, Muminin refers to male believers while Muminat to female believers. In fact, it seems like your contradicting yourself, at one moment you say that Mominat compromises of both males and females, and the next moment you say that first Momins were being addressed and then Mominats are being addressed.

First God says to say to the Mominin that

A. They restrain their gaze
B. They guard their genitals

As that will be purer for them, and indeed Allah is knowledgeable with all that they do

In the next verse He says to say to the Mominat

A. They restrain their gaze
B. They guard their genitals
C. They conceal their Zeenat except for what is/can be apparent
D. They put forth their Khumur over their Juyub
E. They may display their Zeenat to the list of people
F. They don't strike their feet as to make known what they hide of their Zeenat

If God addresses men and female both when He talks in a female style, then why is he separately ordering Mominin to restrain their gaze and guard their genitals as well. Why didn't He just say 'Say to the Mominat' without making mention of 'Mominin', as that would have included men and women both? Get my point?

howiesoares

this is really helpful. Thank you.

hawk99

My understanding of the dress code is based on the universally of Islam,
and that modesty is the goal.

Springing from that point of view, It is my interptretation of Quran that we need not dress as arabs. The the universalality of Islam says the eskimo does not have to dress like a modest arab but a modest eskimo, an american does not have to dress like a modest pakistani but a modest american

Now most of us recognize what modesty looks like

for a woman to cover herself from my peering eyes she would have to cover her thighs
and where her thighs meet, also her buttocks, her breasts, and an enticing walk
I never care about hair! why cover the hair makes no sense to me.
the face? I don't think so. but most importantly she must lower her gaze! i think that is why it is mentioned first because the eyes tell me what she is thinking so don't stare at the Hawk the wrong way, I may get the wrong idea.
Peace O0

And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests,

We thus made this (Quran) elucidated (clear) in your tongue, in order to deliver good news to the righteous, and to warn with it the opponents

loxbox13

Peace,

Ok, we'll take Zeenat to refer to wealth and goods. But please give me a logical and reasonable answer to the question I asked you. That is

In the list of exceptions of the people by whom the Zeenat can be seen; What do 'Attendants/helpers without desire', and 'Children who have no knowledge of a woman's shame/privacy/sexuality/private parts' have anything to do with wealth?

Khumur orginates from the root of 'Khmr', and 'Khmr' refers to a 'Covering'. However, to understand the Quran, I think we should first see how the people to whom the Quran was directly being revealed to understood it, once we are done with that, only then we can interpret according to our understanding/era. Cause if keep on using modern Arabic, then God knows what type of interpretations we'll come to. According to classical Arabic dictionaries, Khimar specifically referred to a woman's headscarf/scarf/head veil.
Same case with Jayb. In modern Arabic it means 'Pocket', but pockets didn't come into existence till a very long time, according to classical Arabic dictionaries, it refers to a garment's neckline, or an opening in a garment. The same word appears in 2832, where God orders Moses to put his hand in his 'Jayb', and it only makes sense to refer to his sleeve opening; underarm. This is further strengthened by the Biblical account of his story. So in 2431, it refers to a woman's shirt's neckline. If you insist that Jayb refers to treasure chests/boxes, then don't you think the Arabs would at least know not to expose their treasures? I mean, they weren't that stupid, were they?
Can you please explain to me, with references your understanding of God addressing men and women as females? Your the first person who is saying that. By reading 2430-31, it clearly shows that God is giving separate orders to Muminin and Muminat, as two different types of Momins, that is, male momins and female momins. According to classical Arabic dictionaries, Muminin refers to male believers while Muminat to female believers. In fact, it seems like your contradicting yourself, at one moment you say that Mominat compromises of both males and females, and the next moment you say that first Momins were being addressed and then Mominats are being addressed.

First God says to say to the Mominin that

A. They restrain their gaze
B. They guard their genitals

As that will be purer for them, and indeed Allah is knowledgeable with all that they do

In the next verse He says to say to the Mominat

A. They restrain their gaze
B. They guard their genitals
C. They conceal their Zeenat except for what is/can be apparent
D. They put forth their Khumur over their Juyub
E. They may display their Zeenat to the list of people
F. They don't strike their feet as to make known what they hide of their Zeenat

If God addresses men and female both when He talks in a female style, then why is he separately ordering Mominin to restrain their gaze and guard their genitals as well. Why didn't He just say 'Say to the Mominat' without making mention of 'Mominin', as that would have included men and women both? Get my point?

sorry for the delay, it's time that is the problem lol

the key word here is FURUJ
it doesn't means genitals, because genitals for male or femele is called JINSAYN and not furuj
the word furuj, depending of the context of the ayahs, but it mainly mean

Defects
Flaws
intimacy
privacy

exemple, - - 6 -

don't they look at the sky above them how we constructed it and adorned it and it doesn't have any FURUJ '(surah qaf, ayah 6)
look how the word ZAYANNA is in the verse, along with FURUJJ , aven though , the verse is talking about the sky

and nothing to do with genitals, it is a verse that has to be understood in a universel way , it concerns men of state , governors etc... not only parents who rule a family

unknownuser

sorry for the delay, it's time that is the problem lol

the key word here is FURUJ
it doesn't means genitals, because genitals for male or femele is called JINSAYN and not furuj
the word furuj, depending of the context of the ayahs, but it mainly mean

Defects
Flaws
intimacy
privacy

exemple, - - 6 -

don't they look at the sky above them how we constructed it and adorned it and it doesn't have any FURUJ '(surah qaf, ayah 6)
look how the word ZAYANNA is in the verse, along with FURUJJ , aven though , the verse is talking about the sky

and nothing to do with genitals, it is a verse that has to be understood in a universel way , it concerns men of state , governors etc... not only parents who rule a family

Its ok, but bro, your not addressing my points. I gave you four points, and I demanded an answer for point 1 and 4. I would really appreciate it if you do that.

As for your point on Furuj; Furuj in it's core meaning refers to an open space. It refers to something that is between boundaries. In that verse, God is saying that the sky has no furuj, that means 'Open spaces', and in the context of skies, it means 'Cracks', 'Gaps', thus it means 'Defect'. But it's core meaning is not 'Defect'. 'Defect' can be a form of an 'Open space'. In human context, it refers to the space between one's legs.

BTW if it means defects or flaws, then why is God ordering governors and men of state to guard their defects/flaws? Shouldn't the public know about the mistakes/flaws of their leaders?

Mazhar

The love and desire of sensual excitements and gratifications has become fascinatingly attractive in the women and the Sons;
So have become the desire to have a state of hoarded abundance of the Gold and the Silver, and the marked-pedigree horses , and abundance of herbivore-mammals, and for plenty of harvesting lands.
This is the wealth-sustenance-provision of transitory worldly life.

Mazhar

The suffixed object pronoun of Verb links back to . And the belief is something abstract.

johan

I think we are walking on fringe science so care should be taken lest we hurt each other bloodily..

I like loxbox's understanding of zeena to point to the idea of adornment/luxury in terms of financial sense it coincides with some of my understanding of nikaa7 as something entirely to do with financial and inheritance related issues rather than sexual..

Also like his idea of farj as flaw rather than physical organs..
to me a perfectly built being wouldn't have physical flaws would they? conscious/psyche related issues maybe but not physical body related stuff

3awrah maybe more related to the private parts be it body or financial/wealth/home, still wealth can be associated to 3awrah..

khumur is a bit tricky since it must have something to do with the notion of time as in khamar (fermentation? -> a39iru khamra)
haven't decided for what is khumur..

jalaba has something to do with assaulting/surrounding

danaya has something to do with close/near as in dunya and adna than that of dalawa (descend/to lower)

anyhing else that i missed?

Almahdi2

THE WOMEN WERE COMMANDED TWO VEILS (khumur)

one Khimar /head veil the other outer garment/cloak

Each were to be cast over the bosom
Khimar over the head , secured at the neck and falls on the chest/bosom
Jalabib/outer garment from the bosom and downwards

24 31 (and to draw their veils ALL OVER their Juyub) > Tafsir
And to draw their VEILS all over their / juybihinna (their bossoms)

(24311 juybihinna their bosoms

(27124) jaybika your bosom

(28324) jaybika your bosom

(to draw their Jalabib OVER THEIR bodies.) Tafsir

(to draw their JALABIB over their bodies.) Quran / jalabeebihinna (outer garments- 3359)
Jalabib > The Jilbab is a Rida', worn over the Khimar (head veil). Khimar falls down to the bosom then the second veil - cloak /outer garment is worn/cast/drawn over the Khimar/head veil from the bosom and down
So, the VEILS are to be drawn/cast all over their juybihinna ( )

The khimar/head veil ends over the bosom and the Jalabib/cloak/outer garment/coat begins from the bosom when being drawn/cast > draw ALL OVER THEIR BOSOMS

Their is nothing about covering the face. The word is not used their people inject it in their fancy interpretation of God's word
Donot place extreme fetters on the women in light of the many ethnicity that live throughout the Muslims world with their ignorant ways and practice on how they lowly kept women in their sight. Syrians are good to this practice of the veils that are now being worn and taken to be the true interpretation of the veil in the Quran- this is wrong. Women get educated and and stop this ignorance as well. Allah only commands ease not hardship and he did not command you to breath in your own carbon dioxide something that is not good at all for your health. He prescribe a healthy way of living. So ponder and live in honor, truth and peace

In the days of ignorance the women use to wear their shawl/scarf around their neck thrown to the back exposing their breast etc. which was a source of great temptation even for the believers , thus the command was first given to the men to lower their gaze. Their covering halfway would look similar to how the shawl/scarf/dupatta is thrown around the neck by the Indians, Pakistanis,etc. when they would wear their shalwar, and choli's etc.

After God commanded the women to help in assisting the men from committing Zina with the eyes. They were ask to cover up certain parts of their bodies with some exception

huruf

Of course anything women should do it will always be for the ske of men. How on earth could it occur to us that women should be instructed to do nything for their own ske when their only reason for existing is to make life a road of stardom for males? We all know that males are the thing aroundwhich revolves human kind and women for them.

Women dress for men, eat for men, exist for men, never never for the sake even of the children, only for men. Men are the reson for everything.

It must have been a slip on God's part when in 24.32 He tells women to not exhibit also before other women.Must have been a slip.

Salaam

Makaveli

Of course anything women should do it will always be for the ske of men. How on earth could it occur to us that women should be instructed to do nything for their own ske when their only reason for existing is to make life a road of stardom for males? We all know that males are the thing aroundwhich revolves human kind and women for them.

Swap men and women in your sentences and you will be closer what is really happening. A man works, get's his ass kicked in pursuing women , buys property, marries, divorces, works again due to losing most of his wealth to the previous life and that is all for the sake of women, since he hits puberty. And what do women do for men? Only give birth nothing else.

hansolo

Swap men and women in your sentences and you will be closer what is really happening. A man works, get's his ass kicked in pursuing women , buys property, marries, divorces, works again due to losing most of his wealth to the previous life and that is all for the sake of women, since he hits puberty. And what do women do for men? Only give birth nothing else.

If You are lucky to be born handsome and tall, women will throw yourself at you. They can't help it because the superior genes trigger their animalistic instincts. Every woman wants the best genes she can possibly get for her child, it is in her biology. Evolution.

Makaveli

If You are lucky to be born handsome and tall, women will throw yourself at you. They can't help it because the superior genes trigger their animalistic instincts. Every woman wants the best genes she can possibly get for her child, it is in her biology. Evolution.

It depends on cultural norms and not merely looks. Previously women preferred breadwinners, now they like PUA artists, who usually have no value whatsoever but create illusion of value by something called Fisherian runaway https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisherian_runaway

But ouside of illusion men who are not breadwinners have no value whatsoever, besides looks, and are worthless. But thing is, modern women can make money by themselves, they are free from men and that is the sole reason they are after looks and sexual attraction rather than families and commitment.

Economy and culture are behind sexual preference, and seldom biology .

Now women choose because they are given freedom to do so, men are merely slaves, either to their instincts or labour, because they are forced to work like slaves until their 30's just to get a chance to marry.

Contrary to common opinion, Islamic world is not full of sex and marriages, but yes among Muslims communities people marry as young as possible, unlike the West. But not everywhere. Normal sum of 'mahr' in Iran is 100k per bride rotfl