Relationships... is it allowed?

Red_Eye_Girl

What do you say about this verse

235 -

No infraction on you in what you proposed to women or hide what is in your minds, allah knows that you will mention them and do not encounter them secretly except that you will talk to them a known words and do not conclude the act of inclusion until the prescribed get it's effect and know that Allah knows what is in your minds so be aware and know that Allah is gracious aimable 2235

I understand from this verse, that you can have a girl friend for 1 condition, a true relationship , a girl that you will propose too, if you realise that the time came to propose, and not having a girlfriend just to satisfy a lust, nut for Love and honesty
allah knows best

I know I am pretty much hijacking the topic from Aryan Warrior, but as I am interested in this and Aryan Warrior isn't posting I probably will take over this topic.

Well obviously we can't have a girlfriend/boyfriend for fornicating or lewdness therefore only leaving us with the option of loving them. Of course one may simply want to sometimes just be emotional with the person temporarily and not seek marriage too as this verse you posted is simply about proposing marriage therefore going a step further into becoming engaged rather than GF/BF. And lets not forget that some of us what GF/BF to test the grounds with them for a while before actually considering them for marriage, otherwise it would end in utter failure.

Thus we are still at the point of trying to understand what akhdnin means in 55. Almost all translations seem to refer to it as lovers (in regards to fornicating) mistresses or paramours. A few i've noticed simply say no girlfriend. Thus what I wonder is what does akhdnin actually translate properly to? I did say it translates to friend but I thought it actually was a form of the word khallan but it seems they aren't thus makes me wonder what it actually means. Anyone who has a better understanding of arabic explain the actual meaning to me?

good_logic

Peace Red Eye Girl.

Does this translation ( From RK) shed any light on " Akhdan"?

Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, *. Also, you may marry the chaste women among the believers, as well as the chaste women among the followers of previous scripture, provided you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, or taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.n
*55 The original translation did not have the expression , which is found in the original Arabic Quran.

Peace

justamuslim

Of course one may simply want to sometimes just be emotional with the person temporarily and not seek marriage too as this verse you posted is simply about proposing marriage therefore going a step further into becoming engaged rather than GF/BF. And lets not forget that some of us what GF/BF to test the grounds with them for a while before actually considering them for marriage, otherwise it would end in utter failure.

putting aside the koran, you don't find anything wrong with having a temporary emotional connection with someone or want to test the grounds? why would you want to spend time with someone getting emotionally attached and then go through the trauma of feeling hurt when that relationship ends? we are human beings and not objects to be tested. our hearts are our most vulnerable and heartbreaks are traumatic. why go through all that? why complicate life?

also, God makes it clear not to be selfish and not to hurt others. i can't see anything good coming out of having girlfriends/boyfriends. i am single and i don't see any good reason to have boyfriend. God encourages all single people to get married if they can. if you are not ready, then wait until the time comes. God does say to get to know a person before marriage to see if things will work out, meet in person and then decide on marriage.

when you have had multiple boyfriends/girlfriends - you will whether you want to admit or not have a tendency to compare the next one to the previous ones. we cannot deny being human beings - having memories.

Red_Eye_Girl

Peace Red Eye Girl.

Does this translation ( From RK) shed any light on " Akhdan"?

Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, *. Also, you may marry the chaste women among the believers, as well as the chaste women among the followers of previous scripture, provided you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, or taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.n
*55 The original translation did not have the expression , which is found in the original Arabic Quran.

Peace

Well thats the thing, I am not sure if that actually translates to "Secret lovers" let alone if the word secret is in there in the first place. So I want someone who knows arabic to be able to answer that.

putting aside the koran, you don't find anything wrong with having a temporary emotional connection with someone or want to test the grounds? why would you want to spend time with someone getting emotionally attached and then go through the trauma of feeling hurt when that relationship ends? we are human beings and not objects to be tested. our hearts are our most vulnerable and heartbreaks are traumatic. why go through all that? why complicate life?

also, God makes it clear not to be selfish and not to hurt others. i can't see anything good coming out of having girlfriends/boyfriends. i am single and i don't see any good reason to have boyfriend. God encourages all single people to get married if they can. if you are not ready, then wait until the time comes. God does say to get to know a person before marriage to see if things will work out, meet in person and then decide on marriage.

when you have had multiple boyfriends/girlfriends - you will whether you want to admit or not have a tendency to compare the next one to the previous ones. we cannot deny being human beings - having memories.

Well some people are on the move sometimes a lot, so they wanna at leave feel and share love even if temporary as they can't at any other point. Of course that was just an example of a situation.

Also can I see this verse about being "selfish"?

Well anyways being the west it is quite important to date and be BF/GF first before marriage as there is no one who will automatically marry you just by meeting nor do I wanna enter a marriage without first being with them for a good while. Obviously I do not wanna fornicate or anything but be emotionally attached first. They must be together for a while get to know each other and the recommended time being 5 years so they you guys are sure if you wanna marry each other or not. You may find having a BF/GF useless but honestly it is what causes marriage in the west and don't like getting into some arranged marriage like how traditionalists always state you should.

Also God encourages to get married, but doesn't state HOW to get married. So having a BF/GF is one way to get married.

Anyways I still need an answer on what Akhdan truly means.

Emil

This as a result made me question. Lovers in the english language normally refers to people in a relationship. The arabic word is "akhdnin" which I haven't been able to get much results on its translation. I've seen some other translations translate that to "secret lovers" or "paramours" which would mean that a relationship is still fine as longs as at least a person knows or not entering a sexual relationship. Thus I am confused here as to what "Lovers" means /

Anyways, i'd love assistance here on that topic

Also one other note. I know 55 states we can go with People of the Book, but does that mean its also okay to go with any monotheist such as deists as well considering they aren't associating partners nor kaffirs?

Thanks

Happy belated birthday

When cross checking against other translations, the word lover can be a bit misleading, because I do not think it is meant as the English english where "lover" can be a life-long partner. The better translation is "someone you will not commit to" or entering "a loose relationship" (the second citation is the interpretation in the Swedish Quran.... ie. a person you have intercourse with but no intention to have that person as a spouse.

I understand from this verse, that you can have a girl friend for 1 condition, a true relationship , a girl that you will propose too, if you realise that the time came to propose, and not having a girlfriend just to satisfy a lust, but for Love and honesty
allah knows best

I agree with loxbox

es

'Red Eye Girl' (sic),

"Well anyways being the west it is quite important to date and be BF/GF first before marriage as there is no one who will automatically marry you just by meeting nor do I wanna enter a marriage without first being with them for a good while. Obviously I do not wanna fornicate or anything but be emotionally attached first. They must be together for a while get to know each other and the recommended time being 5 years so they you guys are sure if you wanna marry each other or not. You may find having a BF/GF useless but honestly it is what causes marriage in the west and don't like getting into some arranged marriage like how traditionalists always state you should."

Are you saying that you need to be with someone for 5 years before knowing whether you want to marry each other?

You say that it is important to date first as no one will marry you in the West otherwise. You also state that you want to be with someone before marrying them. People (even in "The West&quot will agree to marry you without dating you first. I think you have to compare like with like. You want to be with someone, so you're reflecting your own perspective on society as a whole.

justamuslim

@ Red Eye Girl

i grew up in united states. nope, you don't need to 'date' to see if that is the person you want to marry. absolutely, will not invest 5 years of my life with someone.

Abdul-Hakeem

Salaam to you all.

Girlfriend/boyfriend relationships are allowed. Of course, it depends on how you do it. Pre-marital sex is not allowed, obviously. Neither is showing one's naked body to the other. But most other things, like kissing, holding hands, and going out on dates, is halal.

The word "akhdaan" is confusing, but the translation of "girlfriend" is incorrect when speaking to a modern audience who understands "girlfriend" to be a dating relationship and not something like a prostitute.

This is clear through the context, and it is translated correctly in most English translations.

One of the verses that uses the word states this

"...when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as 'AKHDAAN'" (Qur'an 55)

Through context, it's clear that this word is referring to a lover who one uses for sex only. Think of it like "friends with benefits" or like the Turkish harems that many Sultans had. "Akhdaan" is a person who you aren't married to but have a purely sexual relationship with.

Here's how 3 of the major translations translates "Akhdaan"

Yusuf Ali "secret intrigues"
Pickthall "secret concubines"
Sahih International " lovers"

Of all the translations I've read, only Muhsin Khan's seems to translate akhdaan as "girlfriends". But there are a LOT of things wrong with Muhsin Khan's translation, including his inserting his own strict Islamic views into the Qur'an through the use of brackets and mistranslation.

Furthermore, the word is used in a Hadith. I know hadith has no weight around here, but the hadith helps us see how people of 7th century Arabia understood the word "akhdaan".

I forget the hadith citation, but it's in one of the lesser known Sunni history/hadith collections (not Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Daud, Tirmidhi, etc.). I saw it on a Sunni website, actually. I'll paraphrase the hadith

A man had taken in a prostitute and gave her shelter in exchange for sex whenever he wanted. Later on, the verse 55 was revealed. Another man came to the man who took the prostitute in and said "You're sinning". The man cited verse 55 which was recently revealed and said that it was a sin to have an "akhdaan". The man who took in the prostitute then let the prostitute go.

So through Qur'anic context and through that story above (if I had the citation it would be a stronger argument), we can see that "akhdaan" refers to "friends with benefits" and not girlfriend/boyfriend.

unknownuser

This is just my personal experience

I have been married for two years. We wanted to make sure our marriage was pure and done the right way, so we got married, barely knowing one another, but figuring that since we were Muslims things would work out (because that is what we were told). "Love often comes later in Muslim marriages." Yes, that is what we were told.

We are now on our way to divorcing, and why? Because we discovered we are two different people, Islamically, emotionally and mentally. The last two years of my life have been filled with so much stress and tears I cannot even begin to tell you. Two good things came from it My daughter and my new insight on Islam. Other than that, this marriage has been a test beyond belief.

So, if God wills for me to enter another marriage down the line, I will most definitely "date" with a chaperone present. I don't care if it's 3 months, 1 year, or 10 years...I will get to know the person before I accept any marriage proposal. I learned the hard way that just because two people share the same religious beliefs doesn't mean they should be together.

With Peace,

Amina

Abdul-Hakeem

also, God makes it clear not to be selfish and not to hurt others. i can't see anything good coming out of having girlfriends/boyfriends. i am single and i don't see any good reason to have boyfriend. God encourages all single people to get married if they can. if you are not ready, then wait until the time comes. God does say to get to know a person before marriage to see if things will work out, meet in person and then decide on marriage.

Nowhere in the Qur'an does Allah tell us the process for getting married. He simply puts in place a few rules. No sex, no empty promises of engagement, the man must pay the marriage dowry, must marry a Christian, Jew, or Muslim, "guard your private parts" before marriage, and in the case of marrying a slave, you must get permission from his/her owners.

Allah leaves the rest up to us. Going through the route of (halal) dating is fine, and going through the more traditional Muslim route of marriage right away is fine as well. Different things work for different people.

But you can't say nothing good comes from having a girlfriend or boyfriend. If one does it right and with the proper intentions, one can find his/her best match and start the marriage off on the right foot. I've known plenty of Christians who did what would be halal dating in Islam and they were then married with great marriages. I myself am engaged to my Muslim girlfriend, and inshaAllah Allah will bless us and allow us to marry soon.

Red_Eye_Girl

When cross checking against other translations, the word lover can be a bit misleading, because I do not think it is meant as the English english where "lover" can be a life-long partner. The better translation is "someone you will not commit to" or entering "a loose relationship" (the second citation is the interpretation in the Swedish Quran.... ie. a person you have intercourse with but no intention to have that person as a spouse.

I probably would agree more with the idea of it meaning a person you will have intercourse with but no intention to have that person as a spouse as the other is a bit harder to determine I'd think. I still want an exact translation of that word though as I want to be sure of its meaning.

'Red Eye Girl' (sic),

"Well anyways being the west it is quite important to date and be BF/GF first before marriage as there is no one who will automatically marry you just by meeting nor do I wanna enter a marriage without first being with them for a good while. Obviously I do not wanna fornicate or anything but be emotionally attached first. They must be together for a while get to know each other and the recommended time being 5 years so they you guys are sure if you wanna marry each other or not. You may find having a BF/GF useless but honestly it is what causes marriage in the west and don't like getting into some arranged marriage like how traditionalists always state you should."

Are you saying that you need to be with someone for 5 years before knowing whether you want to marry each other?

You say that it is important to date first as no one will marry you in the West otherwise. You also state that you want to be with someone before marrying them. People (even in "The West&quot will agree to marry you without dating you first. I think you have to compare like with like. You want to be with someone, so you're reflecting your own perspective on society as a whole.

@ Red Eye Girl

i grew up in united states. nope, you don't need to 'date' to see if that is the person you want to marry. absolutely, will not invest 5 years of my life with someone.

You CAN marry without dating sure, but marrying someone too soon leads to divorce as most marriages end like that. Thus why a lot here like the idea of 5 years in a relationship first and if all works out then marry each other. Doesn't have to be 5, 5 is just a nice number that is somewhat becoming common amongst my age group and stated by my mother.

Sorry if I may sound offensive, but it is absolutely idiotic to marry someone without knowing them well first as they might be really horrible people and can lead to divorce.

Thus why it only makes sense to date the person for a good while long and as i've viewed a great sum of old posts on this forum, most agree it is okay to have a relationship as long as you avoid zina and lewdness.

Again this may be YOUR ethical judgments that you like marriage without even getting to know the person for a while and you can live however you wish but I want some serious Quranic proofs here, which is why I ask for the exact meaning of that one word, which oddly enough no one even in the many past topics that discuss the dating and approved of dating brought it up with a proper answer.

Salaam to you all.

Girlfriend/boyfriend relationships are allowed. Of course, it depends on how you do it. Pre-marital sex is not allowed, obviously. Neither is showing one's naked body to the other. But most other things, like kissing, holding hands, and going out on dates, is halal.

The word "akhdaan" is confusing, but the translation of "girlfriend" is incorrect when speaking to a modern audience who understands "girlfriend" to be a dating relationship and not something like a prostitute.

This is clear through the context, and it is translated correctly in most English translations.

One of the verses that uses the word states this

"...when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as 'AKHDAAN'" (Qur'an 55)

Through context, it's clear that this word is referring to a lover who one uses for sex only. Think of it like "friends with benefits" or like the Turkish harems that many Sultans had. "Akhdaan" is a person who you aren't married to but have a purely sexual relationship with.

Here's how 3 of the major translations translates "Akhdaan"

Yusuf Ali "secret intrigues"
Pickthall "secret concubines"
Sahih International " lovers"

Of all the translations I've read, only Muhsin Khan's seems to translate akhdaan as "girlfriends". But there are a LOT of things wrong with Muhsin Khan's translation, including his inserting his own strict Islamic views into the Qur'an through the use of brackets and mistranslation.

Furthermore, the word is used in a Hadith. I know hadith has no weight around here, but the hadith helps us see how people of 7th century Arabia understood the word "akhdaan".

I forget the hadith citation, but it's in one of the lesser known Sunni history/hadith collections (not Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Daud, Tirmidhi, etc.). I saw it on a Sunni website, actually. I'll paraphrase the hadith

A man had taken in a prostitute and gave her shelter in exchange for sex whenever he wanted. Later on, the verse 55 was revealed. Another man came to the man who took the prostitute in and said "You're sinning". The man cited verse 55 which was recently revealed and said that it was a sin to have an "akhdaan". The man who took in the prostitute then let the prostitute go.

So through Qur'anic context and through that story above (if I had the citation it would be a stronger argument), we can see that "akhdaan" refers to "friends with benefits" and not girlfriend/boyfriend.

WOW Thank you thank you D That really makes a lot more sense now.

Friends with benefits...I'm surprised they even considered that halal considering it was still fornicating anyways. Though my question now is that the verse states that

"if you have given them their dowries, to be independent, not for illicit sex or taking lovers."

Its sounds like this would take place AFTER you gave them your dowries which is what makes marriage happen at that point so why are those things like "illicit sex or taking lovers" forbidden if they already would be married? I probably am reading it wrong but I would like an explanation thanks )

This is just my personal experience

I have been married for two years. We wanted to make sure our marriage was pure and done the right way, so we got married, barely knowing one another, but figuring that since we were Muslims things would work out (because that is what we were told). "Love often comes later in Muslim marriages." Yes, that is what we were told.

We are now on our way to divorcing, and why? Because we discovered we are two different people, Islamically, emotionally and mentally. The last two years of my life have been filled with so much stress and tears I cannot even begin to tell you. Two good things came from it My daughter and my new insight on Islam. Other than that, this marriage has been a test beyond belief.

So, if God wills for me to enter another marriage down the line, I will most definitely "date" with a chaperone present. I don't care if it's 3 months, 1 year, or 10 years...I will get to know the person before I accept any marriage proposal. I learned the hard way that just because two people share the same religious beliefs doesn't mean they should be together.

With Peace,

Amina

Exactly what i've been stating as to the importance of dating and therefore getting to know someone.

es

I don't think you really know a person until you live with them. People are different outside their own home and you never know them until you see them in testing situations. I think that's when you find out what someone is really like. I know my friends whom I lived with at University know me better than any of my friends who I grew up with and have known for over 24 years.

Then again sometimes you never know what someone's really like.

You seem like you're under the age of 25. Dudette, seriously, when you're my age, you haven't got 5 years to waste. Plus if I was with a man for 5 years, I would definitely, without any doubt be having the most kinkiest, hardcore sex with him. Maybe that's just me.

Abdul-Hakeem

WOW Thank you thank you That really makes a lot more sense now.

Friends with benefits...I'm surprised they even considered that halal considering it was still fornicating anyways. Though my question now is that the verse states that

"if you have given them their dowries, to be independent, not for illicit sex or taking lovers."

Its sounds like this would take place AFTER you gave them your dowries which is what makes marriage happen at that point so why are those things like "illicit sex or taking lovers" forbidden if they already would be married? I probably am reading it wrong but I would like an explanation thanks )

No problem sister.

Regarding to your question, Sahih International's translation is more clear

"...when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking 'akhdaan'"

So Allah is simply saying it is haraam to desire fornication and being friends with benefits instead of desiring to marry the woman and give her the marriage dowry when it's time for marriage.

Hope it's clear now

newform

I also agree with the notion that you don't know someone until you live with them. as far as I understand the Quran shows marriage to be a strict monogamous oath between two people and God and maybe sometimes the parents. I feel if two people who are attracted to each other and want to strive to live by Quran they should marry right away but. it would be smart to live together for whole year as married couple before making babies.

es

I also agree with the notion that you don't know someone until you live with them. as far as I understand the Quran shows marriage to be a strict monogamous oath between two people and God and maybe sometimes the parents. I feel if two people who are attracted to each other and want to strive to live by Quran they should marry right away but. it would be smart to live together for whole year as married couple before making babies.

I agree with you. I have been thinking about practically how I would make this work as I am not going to have any physical contact at all with my intended or be going out on dates with him and stuff and this is my conclusion (thus, so far).

Red_Eye_Girl

I don't think you really know a person until you live with them. People are different outside their own home and you never know them until you see them in testing situations. I think that's when you find out what someone is really like. I know my friends whom I lived with at University know me better than any of my friends who I grew up with and have known for over 24 years.

Then again sometimes you never know what someone's really like.

You seem like you're under the age of 25. Dudette, seriously, when you're my age, you haven't got 5 years to waste. Plus if I was with a man for 5 years, I would definitely, without any doubt be having the most kinkiest, hardcore sex with him. Maybe that's just me.

I'm not saying 5 years is for everyone, you can go 4 years, 10 years, 2 years, 5 months, a year, a week, or instant, however you wish, but people only MOVE IN when they have known them for a while first. No one will allow a random person they don't know to live with them to know who they are first <_< its usually during the engagement/near engagement phase that that happens. Also if you aren't good with your hormones, that is you but not everyone as you said.

No problem sister.

Regarding to your question, Sahih International's translation is more clear

"...when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking 'akhdaan'"

So Allah is simply saying it is haraam to desire fornication and being friends with benefits instead of desiring to marry the woman and give her the marriage dowry when it's time for marriage.

Hope it's clear now

ah okay that makes much more sense Looking back to that translation of the verse too it seems more clear now

Today, the good things have been made lawful to you, and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them; and the independent females from those who are believers, and the independent females from those who have been given the Book before you, if you have given them their dowries, to be independent, not for illicit sex or taking lovers. And whoever rejects belief, then his work has fallen, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.

the bolded simply seems to point to what is lawful which started with food and then went onto state that the believers and the people of the scripture are lawful ONLY if you pay the dowry and marry them and not lawful if you take them for fornication or as friends with benefits.

I really should analyze things more then jump to only partially reading the verse XD

Thanks again ^_^ and may Allah reward you

I also agree with the notion that you don't know someone until you live with them. as far as I understand the Quran shows marriage to be a strict monogamous oath between two people and God and maybe sometimes the parents. I feel if two people who are attracted to each other and want to strive to live by Quran they should marry right away but. it would be smart to live together for whole year as married couple before making babies.

living with them is usually done after dating for a while though as no one will wanna live for for many years without knowing them first and trusting them into their house.

I agree with you. I have been thinking about practically how I would make this work as I am not going to have any physical contact at all with my intended or be going out on dates with him and stuff and this is my conclusion (thus, so far).

So you want an arranged marriage? cause honestly that is the only way that will work if you aren't going on a date with the person? or are you somehow gonna get someone to instantly marry you? Not sure if you are in the west though, but I know over in the east all that is quite a bit easier.

es

Dear Red Eye,

I can't speak for anyone else, but I, personally am great with my hormones. I am a 27 year old woman, exceptionally attractive, aesthetically and otherwise and have had numerous proposals from men and women ranging from one night stands to marriage. However, I still chose to abstain to the degree which I have. In my extremely humble opinion, you will find that most people, especially when "in love" with their partner and being together for a prolonged period of time are extremely likely to be having sex. I don't know anyone who hasn't. Although, I am certain such people exist. Somewhere.

I am English. I was born and raised in England. I am not averse to arranged marriage. As God wills.

Abdul-Hakeem

I am a 27 year old woman, exceptionally attractive, aesthetically and otherwise and have had numerous proposals from men and women ranging from one night stands to marriage.

Don't get a big head now..........lol

justamuslim

Girlfriend/boyfriend relationships are allowed. Of course, it depends on how you do it. Pre-marital sex is not allowed, obviously. Neither is showing one's naked body to the other. But most other things, like kissing, holding hands, and going out on dates, is halal.

kissing, holding hands, going out on dates are 'halal' according to whom?

you may find it halal for you but it sure is not halal for me.

why would i put myself in a situation where a guy could 'date rape' me?
why would i put myself in a situation making it harder to resist temptations? we are dealing with strong emotions/sexual feelings. may be, you are not sexually aroused by kissing and holding hands but i am sure plenty would say that even thinking/talking to a person you have feelings for has an affect - feeling sexually aroused.
break-ups are traumatic. why would i make it worse for myself? ok - let's say i go out with boyfriend for sometime - going places, holding hands, kissing, etc. obviously, some level of connection will develop. 3 things can happen - a) we both end up getting married and live happily thereafter. so we have this fairy tale happy ending. b) we both end up going our separate ways parting as good friends c) i fall in love with him wanting to marry him but he doesn't feel the same or vice versa. if the relationship is going to end, why make it more painful having memories of kissing that person, dancing to a certain song, going to a certain restaurant, watching a certain movie, etc? i sure don't see how 'halal' this could be.
why would i put myself in a situation where a guy could just use me for his selfish reason and not be sincere in getting to know me for marriage but just having me around as a girlfriend?
how can it be a good thing to go out with one boyfriend/girlfriend and then the next and then the next until you find the right person?

you can get to know someone taking your time without holding hands, kissing, going out on dates, etc. i have asked guys - why do you want to kiss me, hold hands with me, go out to the movies with me? why do you need to do that to determine if i am the person for you?

by the way, you can date a person for years thinking you know the person well but still end up divorcing. you know how many marriages in western societies end in divorce?

unknownuser

kissing, holding hands, going out on dates are 'halal' according to whom?

you may find it halal for you but it sure is not halal for me.

why would i put myself in a situation where a guy could 'date rape' me?
why would i put myself in a situation making it harder to resist temptations? we are dealing with strong emotions/sexual feelings. may be, you are not sexually aroused by kissing and holding hands but i am sure plenty would say that even thinking/talking to a person you have feelings for has an affect - feeling sexually aroused.
break-ups are traumatic. why would i make it worse for myself? ok - let's say i go out with boyfriend for sometime - going places, holding hands, kissing, etc. obviously, some level of connection will develop. 3 things can happen - a) we both end up getting married and live happily thereafter. so we have this fairy tale happy ending. b) we both end up going our separate ways parting as good friends c) i fall in love with him wanting to marry him but he doesn't feel the same or vice versa. if the relationship is going to end, why make it more painful having memories of kissing that person, dancing to a certain song, going to a certain restaurant, watching a certain movie, etc? i sure don't see how 'halal' this could be.
why would i put myself in a situation where a guy could just use me for his selfish reason and not be sincere in getting to know me for marriage but just having me around as a girlfriend?
how can it be a good thing to go out with one boyfriend/girlfriend and then the next and then the next until you find the right person?

you can get to know someone taking your time without holding hands, kissing, going out on dates, etc. i have asked guys - why do you want to kiss me, hold hands with me, go out to the movies with me? why do you need to do that to determine if i am the person for you?

by the way, you can date a person for years thinking you know the person well but still end up divorcing. you know how many marriages in western societies end in divorce?

Relationships are sensitive issues no matter marriage, dating, or friendships. You put your heart out there and are vulnerable no matter what the cirumstance. Don't think marriage is any better...people spend their entire lives changing. Don't expect the person you marry to be the same way for the rest of your lives.

One friend of mine told me something that I can never forget Respect is the most important thing in a relationship. If you don't have that, everything else will fall apart. I have found it to be so true.

If it's worth anything, I agree. Wait until you are married to engage in those activities to please Allah (swt). That way you can live each day knowing that you truly did things in accordance with the teachings of Islam.

With Peace,

Amina