Relationships... is it allowed?
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This is just my personal experience
I have been married for two years. We wanted to make sure our marriage was pure and done the right way, so we got married, barely knowing one another, but figuring that since we were Muslims things would work out (because that is what we were told). "Love often comes later in Muslim marriages." Yes, that is what we were told.
We are now on our way to divorcing, and why? Because we discovered we are two different people, Islamically, emotionally and mentally. The last two years of my life have been filled with so much stress and tears I cannot even begin to tell you. Two good things came from it My daughter and my new insight on Islam. Other than that, this marriage has been a test beyond belief.
So, if God wills for me to enter another marriage down the line, I will most definitely "date" with a chaperone present. I don't care if it's 3 months, 1 year, or 10 years...I will get to know the person before I accept any marriage proposal. I learned the hard way that just because two people share the same religious beliefs doesn't mean they should be together.
With Peace,
Amina
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also, God makes it clear not to be selfish and not to hurt others. i can't see anything good coming out of having girlfriends/boyfriends. i am single and i don't see any good reason to have boyfriend. God encourages all single people to get married if they can. if you are not ready, then wait until the time comes. God does say to get to know a person before marriage to see if things will work out, meet in person and then decide on marriage.
Nowhere in the Qur'an does Allah tell us the process for getting married. He simply puts in place a few rules. No sex, no empty promises of engagement, the man must pay the marriage dowry, must marry a Christian, Jew, or Muslim, "guard your private parts" before marriage, and in the case of marrying a slave, you must get permission from his/her owners.
Allah leaves the rest up to us. Going through the route of (halal) dating is fine, and going through the more traditional Muslim route of marriage right away is fine as well. Different things work for different people.
But you can't say nothing good comes from having a girlfriend or boyfriend. If one does it right and with the proper intentions, one can find his/her best match and start the marriage off on the right foot. I've known plenty of Christians who did what would be halal dating in Islam and they were then married with great marriages. I myself am engaged to my Muslim girlfriend, and inshaAllah Allah will bless us and allow us to marry soon.
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When cross checking against other translations, the word lover can be a bit misleading, because I do not think it is meant as the English english where "lover" can be a life-long partner. The better translation is "someone you will not commit to" or entering "a loose relationship" (the second citation is the interpretation in the Swedish Quran.... ie. a person you have intercourse with but no intention to have that person as a spouse.
I probably would agree more with the idea of it meaning a person you will have intercourse with but no intention to have that person as a spouse as the other is a bit harder to determine I'd think. I still want an exact translation of that word though as I want to be sure of its meaning.
'Red Eye Girl' (sic),
"Well anyways being the west it is quite important to date and be BF/GF first before marriage as there is no one who will automatically marry you just by meeting nor do I wanna enter a marriage without first being with them for a good while. Obviously I do not wanna fornicate or anything but be emotionally attached first. They must be together for a while get to know each other and the recommended time being 5 years so they you guys are sure if you wanna marry each other or not. You may find having a BF/GF useless but honestly it is what causes marriage in the west and don't like getting into some arranged marriage like how traditionalists always state you should."
Are you saying that you need to be with someone for 5 years before knowing whether you want to marry each other?
You say that it is important to date first as no one will marry you in the West otherwise. You also state that you want to be with someone before marrying them. People (even in "The West" will agree to marry you without dating you first. I think you have to compare like with like. You want to be with someone, so you're reflecting your own perspective on society as a whole.
@ Red Eye Girl
i grew up in united states. nope, you don't need to 'date' to see if that is the person you want to marry. absolutely, will not invest 5 years of my life with someone.
You CAN marry without dating sure, but marrying someone too soon leads to divorce as most marriages end like that. Thus why a lot here like the idea of 5 years in a relationship first and if all works out then marry each other. Doesn't have to be 5, 5 is just a nice number that is somewhat becoming common amongst my age group and stated by my mother.
Sorry if I may sound offensive, but it is absolutely idiotic to marry someone without knowing them well first as they might be really horrible people and can lead to divorce.
Thus why it only makes sense to date the person for a good while long and as i've viewed a great sum of old posts on this forum, most agree it is okay to have a relationship as long as you avoid zina and lewdness.
Again this may be YOUR ethical judgments that you like marriage without even getting to know the person for a while and you can live however you wish but I want some serious Quranic proofs here, which is why I ask for the exact meaning of that one word, which oddly enough no one even in the many past topics that discuss the dating and approved of dating brought it up with a proper answer.
Salaam to you all.
Girlfriend/boyfriend relationships are allowed. Of course, it depends on how you do it. Pre-marital sex is not allowed, obviously. Neither is showing one's naked body to the other. But most other things, like kissing, holding hands, and going out on dates, is halal.
The word "akhdaan" is confusing, but the translation of "girlfriend" is incorrect when speaking to a modern audience who understands "girlfriend" to be a dating relationship and not something like a prostitute.
This is clear through the context, and it is translated correctly in most English translations.
One of the verses that uses the word states this
"...when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as 'AKHDAAN'" (Qur'an 55)
Through context, it's clear that this word is referring to a lover who one uses for sex only. Think of it like "friends with benefits" or like the Turkish harems that many Sultans had. "Akhdaan" is a person who you aren't married to but have a purely sexual relationship with.
Here's how 3 of the major translations translates "Akhdaan"
Yusuf Ali "secret intrigues"
Pickthall "secret concubines"
Sahih International " lovers"Of all the translations I've read, only Muhsin Khan's seems to translate akhdaan as "girlfriends". But there are a LOT of things wrong with Muhsin Khan's translation, including his inserting his own strict Islamic views into the Qur'an through the use of brackets and mistranslation.
Furthermore, the word is used in a Hadith. I know hadith has no weight around here, but the hadith helps us see how people of 7th century Arabia understood the word "akhdaan".
I forget the hadith citation, but it's in one of the lesser known Sunni history/hadith collections (not Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Daud, Tirmidhi, etc.). I saw it on a Sunni website, actually. I'll paraphrase the hadith
A man had taken in a prostitute and gave her shelter in exchange for sex whenever he wanted. Later on, the verse 55 was revealed. Another man came to the man who took the prostitute in and said "You're sinning". The man cited verse 55 which was recently revealed and said that it was a sin to have an "akhdaan". The man who took in the prostitute then let the prostitute go.
So through Qur'anic context and through that story above (if I had the citation it would be a stronger argument), we can see that "akhdaan" refers to "friends with benefits" and not girlfriend/boyfriend.
WOW Thank you thank you D That really makes a lot more sense now.
Friends with benefits...I'm surprised they even considered that halal considering it was still fornicating anyways. Though my question now is that the verse states that
"if you have given them their dowries, to be independent, not for illicit sex or taking lovers."
Its sounds like this would take place AFTER you gave them your dowries which is what makes marriage happen at that point so why are those things like "illicit sex or taking lovers" forbidden if they already would be married? I probably am reading it wrong but I would like an explanation thanks )
This is just my personal experience
I have been married for two years. We wanted to make sure our marriage was pure and done the right way, so we got married, barely knowing one another, but figuring that since we were Muslims things would work out (because that is what we were told). "Love often comes later in Muslim marriages." Yes, that is what we were told.
We are now on our way to divorcing, and why? Because we discovered we are two different people, Islamically, emotionally and mentally. The last two years of my life have been filled with so much stress and tears I cannot even begin to tell you. Two good things came from it My daughter and my new insight on Islam. Other than that, this marriage has been a test beyond belief.
So, if God wills for me to enter another marriage down the line, I will most definitely "date" with a chaperone present. I don't care if it's 3 months, 1 year, or 10 years...I will get to know the person before I accept any marriage proposal. I learned the hard way that just because two people share the same religious beliefs doesn't mean they should be together.
With Peace,
Amina
Exactly what i've been stating as to the importance of dating and therefore getting to know someone.
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I don't think you really know a person until you live with them. People are different outside their own home and you never know them until you see them in testing situations. I think that's when you find out what someone is really like. I know my friends whom I lived with at University know me better than any of my friends who I grew up with and have known for over 24 years.
Then again sometimes you never know what someone's really like.
You seem like you're under the age of 25. Dudette, seriously, when you're my age, you haven't got 5 years to waste. Plus if I was with a man for 5 years, I would definitely, without any doubt be having the most kinkiest, hardcore sex with him. Maybe that's just me.
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WOW Thank you thank you That really makes a lot more sense now.
Friends with benefits...I'm surprised they even considered that halal considering it was still fornicating anyways. Though my question now is that the verse states that
"if you have given them their dowries, to be independent, not for illicit sex or taking lovers."
Its sounds like this would take place AFTER you gave them your dowries which is what makes marriage happen at that point so why are those things like "illicit sex or taking lovers" forbidden if they already would be married? I probably am reading it wrong but I would like an explanation thanks )
No problem sister.
Regarding to your question, Sahih International's translation is more clear
"...when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking 'akhdaan'"
So Allah is simply saying it is haraam to desire fornication and being friends with benefits instead of desiring to marry the woman and give her the marriage dowry when it's time for marriage.
Hope it's clear now
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I also agree with the notion that you don't know someone until you live with them. as far as I understand the Quran shows marriage to be a strict monogamous oath between two people and God and maybe sometimes the parents. I feel if two people who are attracted to each other and want to strive to live by Quran they should marry right away but. it would be smart to live together for whole year as married couple before making babies.
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I also agree with the notion that you don't know someone until you live with them. as far as I understand the Quran shows marriage to be a strict monogamous oath between two people and God and maybe sometimes the parents. I feel if two people who are attracted to each other and want to strive to live by Quran they should marry right away but. it would be smart to live together for whole year as married couple before making babies.
I agree with you. I have been thinking about practically how I would make this work as I am not going to have any physical contact at all with my intended or be going out on dates with him and stuff and this is my conclusion (thus, so far).
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I don't think you really know a person until you live with them. People are different outside their own home and you never know them until you see them in testing situations. I think that's when you find out what someone is really like. I know my friends whom I lived with at University know me better than any of my friends who I grew up with and have known for over 24 years.
Then again sometimes you never know what someone's really like.
You seem like you're under the age of 25. Dudette, seriously, when you're my age, you haven't got 5 years to waste. Plus if I was with a man for 5 years, I would definitely, without any doubt be having the most kinkiest, hardcore sex with him. Maybe that's just me.
I'm not saying 5 years is for everyone, you can go 4 years, 10 years, 2 years, 5 months, a year, a week, or instant, however you wish, but people only MOVE IN when they have known them for a while first. No one will allow a random person they don't know to live with them to know who they are first <_< its usually during the engagement/near engagement phase that that happens. Also if you aren't good with your hormones, that is you but not everyone as you said.
No problem sister.
Regarding to your question, Sahih International's translation is more clear
"...when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking 'akhdaan'"
So Allah is simply saying it is haraam to desire fornication and being friends with benefits instead of desiring to marry the woman and give her the marriage dowry when it's time for marriage.
Hope it's clear now
ah okay that makes much more sense Looking back to that translation of the verse too it seems more clear now
Today, the good things have been made lawful to you, and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them; and the independent females from those who are believers, and the independent females from those who have been given the Book before you, if you have given them their dowries, to be independent, not for illicit sex or taking lovers. And whoever rejects belief, then his work has fallen, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.
the bolded simply seems to point to what is lawful which started with food and then went onto state that the believers and the people of the scripture are lawful ONLY if you pay the dowry and marry them and not lawful if you take them for fornication or as friends with benefits.
I really should analyze things more then jump to only partially reading the verse XD
Thanks again ^_^ and may Allah reward you
I also agree with the notion that you don't know someone until you live with them. as far as I understand the Quran shows marriage to be a strict monogamous oath between two people and God and maybe sometimes the parents. I feel if two people who are attracted to each other and want to strive to live by Quran they should marry right away but. it would be smart to live together for whole year as married couple before making babies.
living with them is usually done after dating for a while though as no one will wanna live for for many years without knowing them first and trusting them into their house.
I agree with you. I have been thinking about practically how I would make this work as I am not going to have any physical contact at all with my intended or be going out on dates with him and stuff and this is my conclusion (thus, so far).
So you want an arranged marriage? cause honestly that is the only way that will work if you aren't going on a date with the person? or are you somehow gonna get someone to instantly marry you? Not sure if you are in the west though, but I know over in the east all that is quite a bit easier.
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Dear Red Eye,
I can't speak for anyone else, but I, personally am great with my hormones. I am a 27 year old woman, exceptionally attractive, aesthetically and otherwise and have had numerous proposals from men and women ranging from one night stands to marriage. However, I still chose to abstain to the degree which I have. In my extremely humble opinion, you will find that most people, especially when "in love" with their partner and being together for a prolonged period of time are extremely likely to be having sex. I don't know anyone who hasn't. Although, I am certain such people exist. Somewhere.
I am English. I was born and raised in England. I am not averse to arranged marriage. As God wills.
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I am a 27 year old woman, exceptionally attractive, aesthetically and otherwise and have had numerous proposals from men and women ranging from one night stands to marriage.
Don't get a big head now..........lol
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Girlfriend/boyfriend relationships are allowed. Of course, it depends on how you do it. Pre-marital sex is not allowed, obviously. Neither is showing one's naked body to the other. But most other things, like kissing, holding hands, and going out on dates, is halal.
kissing, holding hands, going out on dates are 'halal' according to whom?
you may find it halal for you but it sure is not halal for me.
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why would i put myself in a situation where a guy could 'date rape' me?
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why would i put myself in a situation making it harder to resist temptations? we are dealing with strong emotions/sexual feelings. may be, you are not sexually aroused by kissing and holding hands but i am sure plenty would say that even thinking/talking to a person you have feelings for has an affect - feeling sexually aroused.
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break-ups are traumatic. why would i make it worse for myself? ok - let's say i go out with boyfriend for sometime - going places, holding hands, kissing, etc. obviously, some level of connection will develop. 3 things can happen - a) we both end up getting married and live happily thereafter. so we have this fairy tale happy ending. b) we both end up going our separate ways parting as good friends c) i fall in love with him wanting to marry him but he doesn't feel the same or vice versa. if the relationship is going to end, why make it more painful having memories of kissing that person, dancing to a certain song, going to a certain restaurant, watching a certain movie, etc? i sure don't see how 'halal' this could be.
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why would i put myself in a situation where a guy could just use me for his selfish reason and not be sincere in getting to know me for marriage but just having me around as a girlfriend?
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how can it be a good thing to go out with one boyfriend/girlfriend and then the next and then the next until you find the right person?
you can get to know someone taking your time without holding hands, kissing, going out on dates, etc. i have asked guys - why do you want to kiss me, hold hands with me, go out to the movies with me? why do you need to do that to determine if i am the person for you?
by the way, you can date a person for years thinking you know the person well but still end up divorcing. you know how many marriages in western societies end in divorce?
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kissing, holding hands, going out on dates are 'halal' according to whom?
you may find it halal for you but it sure is not halal for me.
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why would i put myself in a situation where a guy could 'date rape' me?
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why would i put myself in a situation making it harder to resist temptations? we are dealing with strong emotions/sexual feelings. may be, you are not sexually aroused by kissing and holding hands but i am sure plenty would say that even thinking/talking to a person you have feelings for has an affect - feeling sexually aroused.
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break-ups are traumatic. why would i make it worse for myself? ok - let's say i go out with boyfriend for sometime - going places, holding hands, kissing, etc. obviously, some level of connection will develop. 3 things can happen - a) we both end up getting married and live happily thereafter. so we have this fairy tale happy ending. b) we both end up going our separate ways parting as good friends c) i fall in love with him wanting to marry him but he doesn't feel the same or vice versa. if the relationship is going to end, why make it more painful having memories of kissing that person, dancing to a certain song, going to a certain restaurant, watching a certain movie, etc? i sure don't see how 'halal' this could be.
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why would i put myself in a situation where a guy could just use me for his selfish reason and not be sincere in getting to know me for marriage but just having me around as a girlfriend?
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how can it be a good thing to go out with one boyfriend/girlfriend and then the next and then the next until you find the right person?
you can get to know someone taking your time without holding hands, kissing, going out on dates, etc. i have asked guys - why do you want to kiss me, hold hands with me, go out to the movies with me? why do you need to do that to determine if i am the person for you?
by the way, you can date a person for years thinking you know the person well but still end up divorcing. you know how many marriages in western societies end in divorce?
Relationships are sensitive issues no matter marriage, dating, or friendships. You put your heart out there and are vulnerable no matter what the cirumstance. Don't think marriage is any better...people spend their entire lives changing. Don't expect the person you marry to be the same way for the rest of your lives.
One friend of mine told me something that I can never forget Respect is the most important thing in a relationship. If you don't have that, everything else will fall apart. I have found it to be so true.
If it's worth anything, I agree. Wait until you are married to engage in those activities to please Allah (swt). That way you can live each day knowing that you truly did things in accordance with the teachings of Islam.
With Peace,
Amina
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Don't get a big head now..........lol
have you seen a picture of es? the girl sure has it and she knows it!
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Don't think marriage is any better...people spend their entire lives changing. Don't expect the person you marry to be the same way for the rest of your lives.
One friend of mine told me something that I can never forget Respect is the most important thing in a relationship. If you don't have that, everything else will fall apart. I have found it to be so true.
nope, don't think that at all. i am divorced to know. respect, trust and compassion are paramount. when you enter a relationship with that understanding, you can have a solid marriage regardless of differences.
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nope, don't think that at all. i am divorced to know. respect, trust and compassion are paramount. when you enter a relationship with that understanding, you can have a solid marriage regardless of differences.
I see. Well, you definitely know what you are looking for and seem very strong in your resolve. That's a great thing.
With Peace,
Amina
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This is just my personal experience
I have been married for two years. We wanted to make sure our marriage was pure and done the right way, so we got married, barely knowing one another, but figuring that since we were Muslims things would work out (because that is what we were told). "Love often comes later in Muslim marriages." Yes, that is what we were told.
We are now on our way to divorcing, and why? Because we discovered we are two different people, Islamically, emotionally and mentally. The last two years of my life have been filled with so much stress and tears I cannot even begin to tell you. Two good things came from it My daughter and my new insight on Islam. Other than that, this marriage has been a test beyond belief.
So, if God wills for me to enter another marriage down the line, I will most definitely "date" with a chaperone present. I don't care if it's 3 months, 1 year, or 10 years...I will get to know the person before I accept any marriage proposal. I learned the hard way that just because two people share the same religious beliefs doesn't mean they should be together.
With Peace,
Amina
Salaam,
I am sorry to hear that you had a bad marriage and that it caused much heartache and pain. That definitely rates as one of the most emotionally devastating experiences. If not too painful for you--may I ask why you felt that you had to marry your husband so quickly?
Who are these people who told you that this was the only way to do things--marrying a virtual stranger so quickly and that this works for Muslims?
I wish you and your daughter the very best and Allah willing things will be better for you and to paraphrase the Quran with hardship comes ease.
Peace.
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kissing, holding hands, going out on dates are 'halal' according to whom?
you may find it halal for you but it sure is not halal for me.
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why would i put myself in a situation where a guy could 'date rape' me?
-
why would i put myself in a situation making it harder to resist temptations? we are dealing with strong emotions/sexual feelings. may be, you are not sexually aroused by kissing and holding hands but i am sure plenty would say that even thinking/talking to a person you have feelings for has an affect - feeling sexually aroused.
-
break-ups are traumatic. why would i make it worse for myself? ok - let's say i go out with boyfriend for sometime - going places, holding hands, kissing, etc. obviously, some level of connection will develop. 3 things can happen - a) we both end up getting married and live happily thereafter. so we have this fairy tale happy ending. b) we both end up going our separate ways parting as good friends c) i fall in love with him wanting to marry him but he doesn't feel the same or vice versa. if the relationship is going to end, why make it more painful having memories of kissing that person, dancing to a certain song, going to a certain restaurant, watching a certain movie, etc? i sure don't see how 'halal' this could be.
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why would i put myself in a situation where a guy could just use me for his selfish reason and not be sincere in getting to know me for marriage but just having me around as a girlfriend?
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how can it be a good thing to go out with one boyfriend/girlfriend and then the next and then the next until you find the right person?
you can get to know someone taking your time without holding hands, kissing, going out on dates, etc. i have asked guys - why do you want to kiss me, hold hands with me, go out to the movies with me? why do you need to do that to determine if i am the person for you?
by the way, you can date a person for years thinking you know the person well but still end up divorcing. you know how many marriages in western societies end in divorce?
Salaam.
It's halal according to the Qur'an AND according to hadith for those who believe in them (though many would disagree about the hadith, the hadith contain nothing that prohibits kissing or touching). If it's not stated as haraam in the Qur'an, then it is halal. The proof for this is in Qur'an 16116
However, just because it's halal doesn't mean it's always healthy. It's halal for me to eat candy all day, but that's definitely not healthy.
Dating works for some people, and it doesn't work for others. Unfortunately, we live in a society that's sex-driven so often dating is turned into a quest for sex and someone ends up getting tricked or possibly worse. That's not the fault of dating, that's the fault of people.
Just because it could potentially be bad doesn't mean it's not halal. That's the beauty of Allah---He gave us multiple ways to find a spouse. Dating worked for me, and it's halal. You may want to take another route, and that's halal too. Some people would want arranged marriages, and so long as both parties 100% consent 100% willingly, then that too is halal.
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Salaam,
I am sorry to hear that you had a bad marriage and that it caused much heartache and pain. That definitely rates as one of the most emotionally devastating experiences. If not too painful for you--may I ask why you felt that you had to marry your husband so quickly?
Who are these people who told you that this was the only way to do things--marrying a virtual stranger so quickly and that this works for Muslims?
I wish you and your daughter the very best and Allah willing things will be better for you and to paraphrase the Quran with hardship comes ease.
Peace.
Liha,
I thought that I was doing the right thing. I was a new convert to the religion, and everything I read talked about being a pious and obedient wife. All of his friends told him "You need to hurry up and marry that sister...she converted and you don't want to end up fornicating." Everything changed soon after that...
I tried to get him to go to counseling with me...to talk to someone so that we could fix the problem...but he declined everything, saying "We don't do that in Islam. We can solve this problem by ourselves." When I related the problem to other Muslims, they said the same thing..."Just keep praying...love often comes later in Islamic marriages. Keep being a good wife and Allah (swt) will reward you." Who doesn't want reward from Allah (swt)?
I was wrong...he didn't love me and we should have never gotten married.
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Liha,
I thought that I was doing the right thing. I was a new convert to the religion, and everything I read talked about being a pious and obedient wife. All of his friends told him "You need to hurry up and marry that sister...she converted and you don't want to end up fornicating." Everything changed soon after that...
I tried to get him to go to counseling with me...to talk to someone so that we could fix the problem...but he declined everything, saying "We don't do that in Islam. We can solve this problem by ourselves." When I related the problem to other Muslims, they said the same thing..."Just keep praying...love often comes later in Islamic marriages. Keep being a good wife and Allah (swt) will reward you." Who doesn't want reward from Allah (swt)?
I was wrong...he didn't love me and we should have never gotten married.
Salaam.
This is just further proof that the only One who is perfect is Allah. Others, as well-intentioned as they may be, still can give us terrible advice sometimes.
Not to detract from the topic of the post, but I'm curious is your husband a Western convert or was he born a Muslim?
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We are both American converts. The interesting thing is that his father was a Muslim yet my husband never converted until he hit rough times...many of his Muslim friends are ex-convicts, and I am learning that they have a VERY fundamentalist view of Islam, and are heavy on the hadith. I guess I forgot to mention that my husband also did a short time in prison. That would have been a major deal breaker in most situations...but I just saw him as someone who had learned his lesson and was ready to get back on track.
My husband as a person is a good man...he has stayed true to his word and not been in any kind of trouble, and he credits Islam for that. He is the type of person that once you are his friend, you are one for life and he will do anything for you. He is a family man, and from what I can tell, a great father.
We just don't belong together in a relationship.