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  4. Surah 70 Ayah 40

Surah 70 Ayah 40

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • U Offline
    U Offline
    unknownuser
    wrote on last edited by
    #2

    Dear Indelwyin..

    The explanation is quite simple The speaker here is NOT Allah, but the mala'ika of revelation that was sent by Allah to relay the verses of the Quran to Muhammad (P), It is the malaika who is swearing!

    Here is another clear example

    {And we are not sent except by leave of your Rabb. To Him is our present and our future, and all that is in-between. And your Rabb was never to forget}...

    Who is speakeing here? Is is Allah? Would Allah say "We are not sent down except by leave of your Rabb"? (Rabb is wrongly translated as "Lord". Never mind that for now).

    There are many many many such instances in the Quran. Could it be that Muhammad was hearing voices in his head? Hearing the whisperings of the malaika? Could this be the reason why some of his companions accused him of being crazy?

    {And they said "O you upon whom the Reminder has been sent down, you are crazy."} ...

    Was he really crazy?

    {And your companion is not crazy}...

    Once we come to terms with the fact that the entire Qur'an is actually the speach of Jibreel (the Spirit) on BEHALF of the mala'ika, we can finally understand why the pronoun "WE" , which has puzzled the classical commentators of ages, is being used.

    Peace...

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      Wilson
      wrote on last edited by
      #3

      Peace Pazuzu.

      Once we come to terms with the fact that the entire Qur'an is actually the speach of Jibreel (the Spirit) on BEHALF of the mala'ika, we can finally understand why the pronoun "WE" , which has puzzled the classical commentators of ages, is being used.

      What do you make of the following and similar signs

      Or did we create the malaa'ika as females while they witnessed?
      3150

      And we made them leaders who guide by our command, and we inspired them to do good works and hold the salaat and contribute towards purification, and they were in service to us (kaanu lanaa 3aabidin).
      2173

      Abdelilah

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      • B Offline
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        Bender
        wrote on last edited by
        #4

        Peace Pazuzu.

        What do you make of the following and similar signs

        Or did we create the malaa'ika as females while they witnessed?
        3150

        And we made them leaders who guide by our command, and we inspired them to do good works and hold the salaat and contribute towards purification, and they were in service to us (kaanu lanaa 3aabidin).
        2173

        Abdelilah

        Salaam,

        I agree, definitely not AlMalaikat.
        btw I think you meant 37150

        I have a theory about the usage of "WE" but I am not sure yet if it's correct.

        Also what is interesting all those ayaats with an oath begin with "LA" (=neg.).
        I have no idea why translators ignore this "LA".

        Salaam,
        Bender

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        • B Offline
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          Bigmo
          wrote on last edited by
          #5

          I added a couple verses before and after to help.

          7038 Does every one of them hope to enter a garden of bliss?
          7039 No, We have created them from what they know.
          7040 So I do swear by the Lord of the east and the west, that We are able.
          7041 To replace them with better people, We can never be defeated.
          7042 So let them talk in vain and play, until they meet their Day which they are promised.

          I am having trouble understanding this verse. Why is God swearing to the Lord of the east and west, that He is able? He is swearing on himself? Or is this I, someone else? Did I miss something? I cannot read arabic so I was hoping someone could help.

          My other Quran translations say
          7040, Now I do call to witness the Lord of all points in the East and the West that We can certainly.
          7040, So I swear by the Lord of risings and settings that indeed We are able.
          7040, But nay! I call to witness the Sustainer of all the points of sunrise and sunset verily, well able are We.
          7040, I do not need to swear by the Lord of the eastern and western regions that We have certainly all the power.

          Thanks in advance )

          Yes, God is swearing on Himself. In the Quran He also swears on His creation like the sun and moon and stars. He swears on the locations of the stars and reminds mankind of the mangnitude of that swearing. After all the stars are millions of light years away and some billions of light years away. But who created that but God Himself. So it is a language of just like God can create the stars and the earth and just like He is the lord of the east and west, he can also deliver in the promises He made to the unbelievers even though the humn mind may not be able to comprehend that. This usually happens when people are going through hardships and can not imagine victory or when the unbelievers mock at the promises of God and claim its fairy tales.

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          • B Offline
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            Bender
            wrote on last edited by
            #6

            Yes, God is swearing on Himself. In the Quran He also swears on His creation like the sun and moon and stars. He swears on the locations of the stars and reminds mankind of the mangnitude of that swearing. After all the stars are millions of light years away and some billions of light years away. But who created that but God Himself. So it is a language of just like God can create the stars and the earth and just like He is the lord of the east and west, he can also deliver in the promises He made to the unbelievers even though the humn mind may not be able to comprehend that. This usually happens when people are going through hardships and can not imagine victory or when the unbelievers mock at the promises of God and claim its fairy tales.

            Salaam,

            But it says for example in 7040

            7040 "so I do NOT swear..."

            btw I am not sure if "swear" is the correct translation for "uqsimu".

            Salaam,
            Bender

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              Bigmo
              wrote on last edited by
              #7

              Salaam,

              But it says for example in 7040

              7040 "so I do NOT swear..."

              btw I am not sure if "swear" is the correct translation for "uqsimu".

              Salaam,
              Bender

              It actually say "So I swear by...). But I see ur point since it sounds like I don't swear. Thats Arabic grammar for you.

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              • B Offline
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                Bender
                wrote on last edited by
                #8

                It actually say "So I swear by...). But I see ur point since it sounds like I don't swear. Thats Arabic grammar for you.

                Salaam,

                So what is the "LA" doing in there?

                Salaam,
                Bender

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  mmkhan
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #9

                  Salaam,

                  But it says for example in 7040

                  7040 "so I do NOT swear..."

                  btw I am not sure if "swear" is the correct translation for "uqsimu".

                  Salaam,
                  Bender

                  Salaam,

                  Correct! I agree with you bro.

                  7040
                  7040 So I swear by the Lord of risings and settings that indeed We are able.

                  That "la" is missing in translation. Fa means so, La means not/no, etc. etc.

                  May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
                  mmKhan

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                  • I Offline
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                    Indelwyn
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #10

                    One of the reasons I posted that translation. It was so different and confusing to my other ones. Thank you all for your opinions.

                    )

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                    • M Offline
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                      Maha
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #11

                      According to my understanding of the Quran, it's not God who directly "talks". Quran is a recap of what all messengers have said during the years, and hence it's the messenger(s) who swears on God and not God who swears on himself.

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                      • B Offline
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                        Bigmo
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #12

                        Salaam,

                        So what is the "LA" doing in there?

                        Salaam,
                        Bender

                        la can mean to do. Like La ta'itoon which means you will come. La uqsim means i will swear. la tuqsimun means you all will swear.

                        Just like the Quran say la umrika meaning "by your life" when God swears on Muhammad's life when the Quran talked about the destruction of people of Lot.

                        Fa la uqsim actually men "so i will swear". Or even "no i ill swear". Not no i wont swear which would have been lan uqsim. or falan uqsim which means no i will not swear. ITS IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSE.

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                        • B Offline
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                          Bender
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #13

                          la can mean to do. Like La ta'itoon which means you will come. La uqsim means i will swear. la tuqsimun means you all will swear.

                          Just like the Quran say la umrika meaning "by your life" when God swears on Muhammad's life when the Quran talked about the destruction of people of Lot.

                          Fa la uqsim actually men "so i will swear". Or even "no i ill swear". Not no i wont swear which would have been lan uqsim. or falan uqsim which means no i will not swear. ITS IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSE.

                          Salaam,

                          red Can you please give an verse number.
                          blue It's not the same LA, take a look
                          7040
                          1572
                          and in 1572 it's also not swearing, there are a lot of ayaats where this La (the la of 1572) is used, and as far as I know it's never used as a swear but as a certainty, correct me with a verse if you think I am wrong.

                          Can you give 1 verse where this LA (the LA of 7040) is not used for a neg.?
                          If you can then we can look further.

                          Salaam,
                          Bender

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                          • B Offline
                            B Offline
                            Bigmo
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #14

                            Salaam,

                            red Can you please give an verse number.
                            blue It's not the same LA, take a look
                            7040
                            1572
                            and in 1572 it's also not swearing, there are a lot of ayaats where this La (the la of 1572) is used, and as far as I know it's never used as a swear but as a certainty, correct me with a verse if you think I am wrong.

                            Can you give 1 verse where this LA (the LA of 7040) is not used for a neg.?
                            If you can then we can look further.

                            Salaam,
                            Bender

                            -(&#1575
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                            (&#1575

                            ( = &#1605

                            There is a good topic about how la is used in rabic

                            http//www.alfaseeh.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-28015.html

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                            • B Offline
                              B Offline
                              Bender
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #15

                              -(&#1575
                              { }
                              { }

                              ( &#1616 (1)
                              ( &#1616 (1)
                              ...

                              ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )

                              **

                              (&#1575
                              ( &#1605 ( &#1577

                              (&#1575 ( ..)

                              (&#1569 (&#1606 (&#1575


                              (&#1575

                              ( = &#1605

                              There is a good topic about how la is used in rabic

                              http//www.alfaseeh.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-28015.html

                              Salaam Bigmo,

                              Sorry I don't understand arabic. I could recognize some text was taken from The Quran.

                              Anyway, I asked if you could give me a verse from The Quran not from some arab grammar book.
                              Please if you quote an verse give also the verse number, it makes life for me easier )

                              Salaam and thanks,
                              Bender

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                              • B Offline
                                B Offline
                                Bigmo
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #16

                                Salaam Bigmo,

                                Sorry I don't understand arabic. I could recognize some text was taken from The Quran.

                                Anyway, I asked if you could give me a verse from The Quran not from some arab grammar book.
                                Please if you quote an verse give also the verse number, it makes life for me easier )

                                Salaam and thanks,
                                Bender

                                qiyamah (2) And I do call to witness the self-reproaching spirit (Eschew Evil).

                                Al Balad (1) I do call to witness this City;-

                                Younis (62) Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear, nor shall they grieve

                                Al noor (22) Let not those among you who are endued with grace and amplitude of means resolve by oath against helping their kinsmen, those in want, and those who have left their homes in Allah?s cause let them forgive and overlook, do you not wish that Allah should forgive you? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

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                                • B Offline
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                                  Bender
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #17

                                  qiyamah (2) And I do call to witness the self-reproaching spirit (Eschew Evil).

                                  Al Balad (1) I do call to witness this City;-

                                  Salaam Bigmo,

                                  These 2 ayaat are the same as 7040, thus not something we want to compare with, as I will again say that here also the LA is a neg.

                                  Younis (62) Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear, nor shall they grieve

                                  Thank you, I was searching for examples like this.
                                  As per my current understanding the Alif in the beginning is for interrogative sentences ( I hope this is the correct term).

                                  So as per my current understanding it has to be read like this
                                  1062 Is it NOT for sure that on the allies of God there is no fear over them nor will they grieve?
                                  Not the best translation but I hope you understand what I mean.

                                  Al noor (22) Let not those among you who are endued with grace and amplitude of means resolve by oath against helping their kinsmen, those in want, and those who have left their homes in Allah?s cause let them forgive and overlook, do you not wish that Allah should forgive you? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

                                  I guess you are reffering to the red part. But here the translator already made it a interrogative sentence.
                                  As per my understanding how the translator translated this part is correct. he had to do the same with 1062

                                  Salaam,
                                  Bender

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                                  • B Offline
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                                    Bender
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #18

                                    Salaam again Bigmo,

                                    May I ask from where you did quote those ayaats?
                                    Can you please give me a link.

                                    Thank you,
                                    Bender

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                                      Bigmo
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #19

                                      Salaam Bigmo,

                                      These 2 ayaat are the same as 7040, thus not something we want to compare with, as I will again say that here also the LA is a neg.

                                      Thank you, I was searching for examples like this.
                                      As per my current understanding the Alif in the beginning is for interrogative sentences ( I hope this is the correct term).

                                      So as per my current understanding it has to be read like this
                                      1062 Is it NOT for sure that on the allies of God there is no fear over them nor will they grieve?
                                      Not the best translation but I hope you understand what I mean.

                                      I guess you are reffering to the red part. But here the translator already made it a interrogative sentence.
                                      As per my understanding how the translator translated this part is correct. he had to do the same with 1062

                                      Salaam,
                                      Bender

                                      Than if that is the case why not "Should I not swear" being the case. I think you are trying to imply the la here means no. Than you changed it to negative. As I said negative can also be "should I not swear". The problem is the la here does not mean no. Alla is also about emphasis. However you try to word that emphasis is not relevant.

                                      Such as the verse

                                      "

                                      (214) Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!

                                      You can translate is as "is it not the case that Allah's victory is near" as long as you dont change the meaning. However gramatically its about emphasis and not negative or positive. But with the la uqsim you actually changed the meaning of the text to mean God does not swear rather than God swears.

                                      Al Dhariyat (7) By the Sky with (its) numerous Paths,

                                      ( Truly ye are in a doctrine discordant,

                                      (22) And in heaven is your Sustenance, as (also) that which ye are promised.

                                      (23) Then, by the Lord of heaven and earth, this is the very Truth, as much as the fact that ye can speak intelligently to each other.

                                      There are many examples where God swears. The notion that la uqsimu means God does not swear is changing the meaning and does not make Quranic sense or gramatical sense.

                                      Even a casual glance at these verses tell us what la uqsimu means

                                      Al Waqia'Al (75) Furthermore I call to witness the setting of the Stars,-

                                      (76) And that is indeed a mighty adjuration if ye but knew,-

                                      (77) That this is indeed a qur?an Most Honourable,

                                      (7 In Book well-guarded,

                                      (79) Which none shall touch but those who are clean

                                      (80) A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.

                                      http//www.oneummah.net/quran/

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                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Mazhar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #20
                                          • Interrogative Particle + Negation Particle (1)913(2)1259(3)2422(4)2611(5)2625(6)26106(7)26124(26142(9)26161(10)26177(11)3791(12)37124(13)5127(14)6714(15)8304=15

                                        Initiation and interjection particle. It lends/affords particular emphasis to the context in general and functions as attention drawing particle and gentle and strong encouragement particle. It may precede either a nominal sentence or verbal sentence.
                                        (1)631(2)662(3)754(4)949(5)1105(6)1108(7)1118(1160(9)1168(10)1195(11)1328(12)1625(13)1659(14)3903(15)3905(16)3915=16

                                        Same with prolongation sign (1)212(2)213(3)2214(4)7131(5)999(6)1055(7)1055(1062(9)1066(10)1105(11)1160(12)1168(13)2464(14)37151(15)4154(16)4154(17)4205(14218(19)4245(20)4253(21)5818(22)5819(23)5822=23

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                                          mmkhan
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #21

                                          Thank you, I was searching for examples like this.
                                          As per my current understanding the Alif in the beginning is for interrogative sentences ( I hope this is the correct term).

                                          So as per my current understanding it has to be read like this
                                          1062 Is it NOT for sure that on the allies of God there is no fear over them nor will they grieve?
                                          Not the best translation but I hope you understand what I mean.

                                          Salaam brother,

                                          I agree with you on 1062. And 292 makes it more clear in usage of initial alif, inshaAllah.

                                          292

                                          May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
                                          mmKhan

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