Why do you reject hadiths

good_logic

Peace rameez.

I was conversing with you on the false assumption that you believed Qoran was from GOD.

Now it becomes a different debate.

Quote .You are proving Quran from Quran itself. Please prove that these verses were given to Jibraeel and he conveyed to Messenger.

I believe , without a doubt that Qoran is from GOD.

I am not willing to enter into a debate of "believer against disbeliever"." If you show them every kind of miracle they would not believe" as far as I am concerned.
I am out. You have your Deen and I have mine.

Good luck and Peace.

Bigmo

Peace rameez.

I was conversing with you on the false assumption that you believed Qoran was from GOD.

Now it becomes a different debate.

Quote .You are proving Quran from Quran itself. Please prove that these verses were given to Jibraeel and he conveyed to Messenger.

I believe , without a doubt that Qoran is from GOD.

I am not willing to enter into a debate of "believer against disbeliever"." If you show them every kind of miracle they would not believe" as far as I am concerned.
I am out. You have your Deen and I have mine.

Good luck and Peace.

What did you really expect? The minute he saod he believes in abrogation and believes that legislation can be added inspite of the Quran I knew it will go in circles. He should have came here to learn. He is learning but he is giving us a very bad example. Many here will now try to avoid dealing with Sunnis. It is not really his fault as many aspects of Sunni fiqh are not told to the public. Especially that the Sunnah was very controversial and a few people like Al Shafi came with the idea almost two centuries after Muhammad. He probably thought that this is how Muslims always understood their deen. In the end it was the Caliph Mutawakkil who championed the Sunnah and made Sunni islam the official state religion of the Abbasid Empire. The Sunnah was like a gift from the skies to the ruler. Finally they can become tyrants with all the religious cover they can have.

noshirk

Salam Rameez

I will respond to your other questions after .

You are not my first Hadeether. You will not do that

Now let me ask you to quote a verse and PROVE THAT IT WAS REVEALED TO MESSENGER VIA GIBREEL AND IN TURN WAS REVEALED BY ALLAH.

There is no such verse. What is the problem ?
I had never seen or met God. I believe he exists. I can't witness of that. I can't even witness that there is only one GOD.
I find a book called Quran. I have read it. I recognized words of my God. I believe in it all. I can't witness that it is book of GOD
I Had never seen Muhammad. I can't witness he even existed. In the book i believed was from my GOD, it is told to me that he is the rassool to whom was given the book. So i blieved in That.

You can consider All Quran as a Gossip. But it is only one Gossip of 600 pages and i believed in it. Show me one human able to produce a Gossip like that. I put my faith in only one source. Whats the problem ?
Your books of Hadiths are compilation of millions of gossips. Bukhari's book alone came from 600 000 gossips (as he said). You and your scholars admitted that that gossips can be lies produced by humans. You are spending time in a huge garbage of lies hoping to find another Quran there. Books of yours gossips can't even agree for what gossips are true gossips.

Now that i explained what believer mean, i hope that you can also recognize words of your God without "certification" of people of "knowledge and authority".
If you can't do so, then you believe in GOD through other divinities. You would not be a believer of GOD but a believer in "people of knowledge and authority" you have choosen.

I will count now lies in the sentence below

Hadiths are not gossips or conjecture. People of knowledge and authority have studied them extensively and have separated/pointed out fabrications. People have spent their lives in studying this thing.

Lie 1 Hadiths are not Gossips and conjecture. What are they then ? How you get them if not by a gossip process of "authentification of Gossips" by people you heard "by Gossip" that they were truthfull .
Lie 2 People of knowledge. What is their knowledge ?. What did they discovered other than doctrines for dividing muslims? How do you measure their knowledge ?
Lie 3 and authority. Who gave them authority ?. They are not even agree between them. Please give us the names of the people you think are of authority end tell us why you think that they have more authority than the others. How can you choose the good ones if you admit that they have more authority than yourself and have spent more time than you in studying?
Lie 4have studied them extensively and have separated/pointed out fabrications. Well, i can deduce from that that we can find now an update for books of Bukhari and other Hadiths compilors where fabrications have been separated. Where can i find these authentificated books and who are the authentificators ?. You know than such books don't exists but you are believing that the work has been done.
Lie 5People have spent their lives in studying this thing. Please give me names. How can you know that they spent their live in such a study ? Please, give me one Hadith and one example of "scientist" who managed to proove that that a hadith was not fabrication. Show me one demonstration. Only one. The best one.

622 And the Day We gather them all, then We say to the Mushrikins "Where are your partners whom you used to claim?"
623 Then, their only excuse was to say "By God, our Lord, we were not Mushrikins!"
624 See how they lied to themselves; and that which they invented abandoned them.

I sincerely hope that you will discover one day that you were lying to yourself and that yours partners will not be with you in the day of judgment.
I sincerely hope that one day, you will read words of God through words of God and not throught tafassirs and hearsays.
I sincerely hope that one day, you will discover that science and Hikma of your GOD is in his words and in his universe and not in other books.
I sincerely hope that you will not return on your heels after you have met, in this forum, believers in GOD and words of GOD who are humbly triyng to understand what GOD said and asking GOD for his purification. Hope you will not return on your heels as you came, with false books of God between your hands.

Peace

Shirin

Quran with Sunnah (Islamic Rituals) with Hadiths ? Where is Sunnah in Quran , when only Quran was revealed they are following conjecture and claiming that Sunnis are wrong , MashAllah ? Isn't it sunnah(Islamic Rituals) also hearsay and conjecture ?

Salaams,

I consider myself Qur'an-aloner, but I still pray the "oldfashion" way. While I don't consider hadith as a religious authority, I think salat is something that we didn't learn from hadith it's rather tradition which is passed down on us from Muhammad and the Muslims around him. If Bukhari collected hadith two centuries after death of the Prophet, does that mean that Muslims didn't know how to pray in that period?

I learned salat from my mom, my mom learned it form her mom, my grandma learned it from her mom and I'm sure that mother of my grandmother didn't have Sahih Bukhari collection available but still she managed to pray five times a day.
Of course, Qur'an tells us we should stand in prayer, bow and fall prostrate and recite Qur'an and glorify Allah s.w.t., that's exactly what I do praying the "oldfashion" way.

unknownuser

Salaams,

I consider myself Qur'an-aloner, but I still pray the "oldfashion" way. While I don't consider hadith as a religious authority, I think salat is something that we didn't learn from hadith it's rather tradition which is passed down on us from Muhammad and the Muslims around him. If Bukhari collected hadith two centuries after death of the Prophet, does that mean that Muslims didn't know how to pray in that period?

I learned salat from my mom, my mom learned it form her mom, my grandma learned it from her mom and I'm sure that mother of my grandmother didn't have Sahih Bukhari collection available but still she managed to pray five times a day.
Of course, Qur'an tells us we should stand in prayer, bow and fall prostrate and recite Qur'an and glorify Allah s.w.t., that's exactly what I do praying the "oldfashion" way.

Yes, but you are doing it that way because you made a conscientious decision based on teachings from the Qu'ran. I think that is what is important...you are not doing it ritualistically or out of ignorance.

aabdul

www.resurgentislam.com

Indelwyn

Thanks for the link, looks interesting.

I just find it disturbing, one would come here and feel offended because others do not believe in stories and fables, then get defensive and annoyed. Then still calling themselves a Muslim, goes and questions the Holy Quran, the words of God.Which he knows to be true. Are you not scared Allah will question you on this? & But you have no fear in following what those who are far less than Allah tell you.

How can you compare the Qu'ran (protected and persisting unaltered truth throughout time) with hadith (unprotected, man-made fabrications alluded to being the words, actions and sometimes appalling behavior of a man of God)?

noshirk

Salaam Shirin

I think salat is something that we didn't learn from hadith it's rather tradition which is passed down on us from Muhammad and the Muslims around him. If Bukhari collected hadith two centuries after death of the Prophet, does that mean that Muslims didn't know how to pray in that period?

I learned salat from my mom, my mom learned it form her mom, my grandma learned it from her mom and I'm sure that mother of my grandmother didn't have Sahih Bukhari collection available but still she managed to pray five times a day.

I also thought that during a long period.
I hope that following traditionnal practices you don't know from were they came will not divert you from studying Quran.

Peace

Shirin

Yes, but you are doing it that way because you made a conscientious decision based on teachings from the Qu'ran. I think that is what is important...you are not doing it ritualistically or out of ignorance.

Yes, of course.

Salaam ShirinI also thought that during a long period.
I hope that following traditionnal practices you don't know from were they came will not divert you from studying Quran.

Peace

Wa Salaam,

Why would it divert me? I still recite Qur'an, bow to our Creator, and fall on sajjda and pray for guidance.

To all others, I don't think rameez is questioning Qur'an, it's more like he is asking hypothetical questions. So people, don't be too harsh.

God bless you all.

noshirk

Salaam

Why would it divert me? I still recite Qur'an, bow to our Creator, and fall on sajjda and pray for guidance. )

Because reciting while bowing and prostrating in not studying and thinking.

do you know that in this forum, there is strange people who believe that Salat is not prayer, that Soujoud is not prostating , that roukou is not bowing and that salat in only 3 times in the day ?

Peace

Shirin

Salaam
Because reciting while bowing and prostrating in not studying and thinking.

do you know that in this forum, there is strange people who believe that Salat is not prayer, that Soujoud is not prostating , that roukou is not bowing and that salat in only 3 times in the day ?

Peace

That's correct. ) I'll try my best to stay on that track as well, inshaAllah.

I noticed those people too, I hear what they say but it doesn't affect me much.

unknownuser

Salaam
Because reciting while bowing and prostrating in not studying and thinking.

do you know that in this forum, there is strange people who believe that Salat is not prayer, that Soujoud is not prostating , that roukou is not bowing and that salat in only 3 times in the day ?

Peace

Uhhh...hello...some of us "strange" people just read that...thanks.

Maha

Salaam ShirinI also thought that during a long period.
I hope that following traditionnal practices you don't know from were they came will not divert you from studying Quran.

Peace

Quran 1736 and do not follow that which you have no knowledge of.

So I don't follow any traditional ritual or practice which I can't find any quranic support of.

Maha

That's correct. I'll try my best to stay on that track as well, inshaAllah.

I noticed those people too, I hear what they say but it doesn't affect me much.

1736 and follow Not which you have not knowledge of

So If they aren't sure that prayer is a ritual like you believe, than they are quranically entitled to not follow it as they have no knowledge about it. I hope you understand my point.

Peace

Shirin

1736 and follow Not which you have not knowledge of

So If they aren't sure that prayer is a ritual like you believe, than they are quranically entitled to not follow it as they have no knowledge about it. I hope you understand my point.

Peace

When I read in Qur'an (what I mentioned before) that it is prescribed to stand, bow and fall prostrate and recite Qur'an and glorify God, then I saw that there is nothing wrong with praying in traditional way. Hope you understand what I'm saying, as well.

Peace

noshirk

Salaam shirin

That's correct. I'll try my best to stay on that track as well, inshaAllah.

I noticed those people too, I hear what they say but it doesn't affect me much.

Oups! i forgot to tell you that i am one of those strange people

i no more make the double false testimony of shahada
i don't believe that salat is prayer but a simple connexion to God by meditating and thinking about his words and creations
i don't believe that ootoo zakat is giving sadaqa but getting mind purification by study of words of god
i don't believe also that hajj is pilgrimage but debate with candidates to islam during feast
i dont believe that siyamm is fasting but spiritual retreat

i believe in quran, in God and all his messengers.
I put all my faith in GOD and his words and in anything else

what a strange religion i am following.
It is based only on quran
i wonder what is its name ?
Can you help me shirin ?

Peace

Maha

When I read in Qur'an (what I mentioned before) that it is prescribed to stand, bow and fall prostrate and recite Qur'an and glorify God, then I saw that there is nothing wrong with praying in traditional way. Hope you understand what I'm saying, as well.

Peace

Yes but Jewish prayers also include that. So you don't have to pray in ""traditional way"" . And beside, some have different understanding of prayers, which they are entitled to quranically. I haven't studied the issue of prayer yet, so I cannot talk on behalf of myself yet. I will god willingly study it soon and make up my mind.

Peace

Shirin

Salaam shirin
Oups! i forgot to tell you that i am one of those strange people

i no more make the double false testimony of shahada
i don't believe that salat is prayer but a simple connexion to God by meditating and thinking about his words and creations
i don't believe that ootoo zakat is giving sadaqa but getting mind purification by study of words of god
i don't believe also that hajj is pilgrimage but debate with candidates to islam during feast
i dont believe that siyamm is fasting but spiritual retreat

i believe in quran, in God and all his messengers.
I put all my faith in GOD and his words and in anything else

what a strange religion i am following.
It is based only on quran
i wonder what is its name ?
Can you help me shirin ?

Peace

Hehe, good for you. You believe in your own interpretation of Qur'an, I have my own. Your interpretation allows you to play with people, mine doesn't.

Peace

Shirin

Yes but Jewish prayers also include that. So you don't have to pray in ""traditional way"" . And beside, some have different understanding of prayers, which they are entitled to quranically. I haven't studied the issue of prayer yet, so I cannot talk on behalf of myself yet. I will god willingly study it soon and make up my mind.

Peace

Yeah, but I don't recite Torah or Talmud or , I recite Qur'an. I think that is a big difference.

Peace

Maha

Salaam shirin
Oups! i forgot to tell you that i am one of those strange people

i no more make the double false testimony of shahada
i don't believe that salat is prayer but a simple connexion to God by meditating and thinking about his words and creations
i don't believe that ootoo zakat is giving sadaqa but getting mind purification by study of words of god
i don't believe also that hajj is pilgrimage but debate with candidates to islam during feast
i dont believe that siyamm is fasting but spiritual retreat

i believe in quran, in God and all his messengers.
I put all my faith in GOD and his words and in anything else

what a strange religion i am following.
It is based only on quran
i wonder what is its name ?
Can you help me shirin ?

Peace

Sister I would advice yo? to grow up instead of ridiculously make fun of people with different understanding of the Quran. Just because you disagree with them doesn't give you the right to offend them because as god says in the holy Quran 4911

"and let not one group of believers laugh at the other - they may be better then them"

I hope you understand my point sister .

Peace