Why do you reject hadiths
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Rameez,
First off, salaam. Secondly, did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason these things aren't in the Qu'ran is because they aren't important? I often ask myself "What if the hadith never existed? Would we ask things like how short should the prayer be...how far should we travel to consider shortening the prayer, etc?" In my opinion, it's all of these technicalities that cause people to be distanced from God.
The first time someone asked me online "How do you shorten the prayer if the Qu'ran doesn't say how many rakas to do?" To me it was simple...like brushing teeth. Most days, I brush my teeth for 2 minutes or so, making sure I do 20 strokes on each surface. Some mornings I am in a hurry, so I do a quicker brushing, maybe 10 strokes or so. I didn't need a manual or to call up my dentist to ask that...it just made sense.
It's the same with traveling I don't consider a trip to the local grocery store "traveling." I consider traveling to be a trip in which I will not be returning home for a while, as in a few days or so. However, if I am at a safe place when I reach my destination (hotel, friends home, etc) then I am in a place where I can pray freely and safely, so I make the full prayer. If I can find a safe place to pray while I am traveling (i.e. a local mosque), then I can make the full prayer then also.
Don't need a hadith or scholar to tell me that one.
One more thing Please consider the time the Qu'ran was revealed...people didn't have cars, planes, etc. to get them places, and it took them days to get anywhere. They probably didn't have hotels to stay the night in...they slept in a camp our out in the wilderness where danger abounded. We don't have that issue now...we are places in a matter of hours anymore, and we can stop in safe places to rest, so it easier for us.
Peace,
Amina
Good point.
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Rameez,
First off, salaam. Secondly, did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason these things aren't in the Qu'ran is because they aren't important? I often ask myself "What if the hadith never existed? Would we ask things like how short should the prayer be...how far should we travel to consider shortening the prayer, etc?" In my opinion, it's all of these technicalities that cause people to be distanced from God.
The first time someone asked me online "How do you shorten the prayer if the Qu'ran doesn't say how many rakas to do?" To me it was simple...like brushing teeth. Most days, I brush my teeth for 2 minutes or so, making sure I do 20 strokes on each surface. Some mornings I am in a hurry, so I do a quicker brushing, maybe 10 strokes or so. I didn't need a manual or to call up my dentist to ask that...it just made sense.
It's the same with traveling I don't consider a trip to the local grocery store "traveling." I consider traveling to be a trip in which I will not be returning home for a while, as in a few days or so. However, if I am at a safe place when I reach my destination (hotel, friends home, etc) then I am in a place where I can pray freely and safely, so I make the full prayer. If I can find a safe place to pray while I am traveling (i.e. a local mosque), then I can make the full prayer then also.
Don't need a hadith or scholar to tell me that one.
One more thing Please consider the time the Qu'ran was revealed...people didn't have cars, planes, etc. to get them places, and it took them days to get anywhere. They probably didn't have hotels to stay the night in...they slept in a camp our out in the wilderness where danger abounded. We don't have that issue now...we are places in a matter of hours anymore, and we can stop in safe places to rest, so it easier for us.
Peace,
Amina
Peace scaredmuslimah
nuff said
Peace O0
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if they are from a trusted source then you are just following facts.. then that can obviously not be shirk but truth and following the truth is following God.
quran says I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
I am believing other books no matter true or not. According to you that's shirk.
I know there are hadiths from which we can get good advices, I don't see problem in taking a good advice, whichever source we got it from.
My problem with some Muslims is that they claim Qur'an is incomplete without hadith or that hadith is divinely inspired, and that is what I will never accept.
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I am believing other books no matter true or not. According to you that's shirk.
I know there are hadiths from which we can get good advices, I don't see problem in taking a good advice, whichever source we got it from.
My problem with some Muslims is that they claim Qur'an is incomplete without hadith or that hadith is divinely inspired, and that is what I will never accept.
I agree.
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Rameez,
First off, salaam. Secondly, did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason these things aren't in the Qu'ran is because they aren't important? I often ask myself "What if the hadith never existed? Would we ask things like how short should the prayer be...how far should we travel to consider shortening the prayer, etc?" In my opinion, it's all of these technicalities that cause people to be distanced from God.
Peace Amina -- of course it?s important and one has to prioritize everything; take for example...
Islamic scholar ibn Hanbal al-Shaybani
Title Sheikh, Imam Ahl al-Sunnah
Born 780 CE/164 AH
Main interests Fiqh, Hadith (especially on eating watermelons)He was so obsessed and scrupulous a theologian that in his veneration for the prophet refused to eat watermelons even though he knew that the prophet enjoyed watermelons although it was not certain if to peeled off the rind, or whether he broke, bit, or like my sunnah/method use a knife and cut the watermelon!
This is definitely not sunnah ? she's too sloppy, her hair is exposed, it can fall into the watermelon, etc.,
http//i.ebayimg.com/t/Sexy-girl-eating-a-watermelon-Pop-Art-Free-Shipping-/17/!BWLL(Hg!Wk~$(KGrHgoH-C0EjlLlt+dzBKWNd,339Q~~_35.JPG
Likewise choosing the right watermelon is crucial which my correct sunnah is a slight tap with the palm of the hand and listen carefully for a ?thump? sound which takes years of experience and one has to learn from a master...
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Peace Amina -- of course its important and one has to prioritize everything; take for example...
Islamic scholar ibn Hanbal al-Shaybani
Title Sheikh, Imam Ahl al-Sunnah
Born 780 CE/164 AH
Main interests Fiqh, Hadith (especially on eating watermelons)He was so obsessed and scrupulous a theologian that in his veneration for the prophet refused to eat watermelons even though he knew that the prophet enjoyed watermelons although it was not certain if to peeled off the rind, or whether he broke, bit, or like my sunnah/method use a knife and cut the watermelon!
This is definitely not sunnah she's too sloppy, her hair is exposed, it can fall into the watermelon, etc.,
http//i.ebayimg.com/t/Sexy-girl-eating-a-watermelon-Pop-Art-Free-Shipping-/17/!BWLL(Hg!Wk~$(KGrHgoH-C0EjlLlt+dzBKWNd,339Q~~_35.JPG
Likewise choosing the right watermelon is crucial which my correct sunnah is a slight tap with the palm of the hand and listen carefully for a thump sound which takes years of experience and one has to learn from a master...
rotfl But in all fairness also, I will admit that I could have worded that better...It's not that they aren't important, maybe they aren't the most important aspects of worship. How's that?
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He was so obsessed and scrupulous a theologian that in his veneration for the prophet refused to eat watermelons even though he knew that the prophet enjoyed watermelons although it was not certain if to peeled off the rind, or whether he broke, bit, or like my sunnah/method use a knife and cut the watermelon!
Did a quick search and yes, there are hadith about watermelon. o_O
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Rameez,
First off, salaam. Secondly, did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason these things aren't in the Qu'ran is because they aren't important? I often ask myself "What if the hadith never existed? Would we ask things like how short should the prayer be...how far should we travel to consider shortening the prayer, etc?" In my opinion, it's all of these technicalities that cause people to be distanced from God.
The first time someone asked me online "How do you shorten the prayer if the Qu'ran doesn't say how many rakas to do?" To me it was simple...like brushing teeth. Most days, I brush my teeth for 2 minutes or so, making sure I do 20 strokes on each surface. Some mornings I am in a hurry, so I do a quicker brushing, maybe 10 strokes or so. I didn't need a manual or to call up my dentist to ask that...it just made sense.
It's the same with traveling I don't consider a trip to the local grocery store "traveling." I consider traveling to be a trip in which I will not be returning home for a while, as in a few days or so. However, if I am at a safe place when I reach my destination (hotel, friends home, etc) then I am in a place where I can pray freely and safely, so I make the full prayer. If I can find a safe place to pray while I am traveling (i.e. a local mosque), then I can make the full prayer then also.
Don't need a hadith or scholar to tell me that one.
One more thing Please consider the time the Qu'ran was revealed...people didn't have cars, planes, etc. to get them places, and it took them days to get anywhere. They probably didn't have hotels to stay the night in...they slept in a camp our out in the wilderness where danger abounded. We don't have that issue now...we are places in a matter of hours anymore, and we can stop in safe places to rest, so it easier for us.
Peace,
Amina
Thank you sister for this thought provoking post.
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Thank you sister for this thought provoking post.
Masha'Allah...I'm humbled.
Peace,
Amina
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Peace to all, D
Seriosly hadith has so many regulations on how to do stuff; it tries to make religion the whole of our life whis is seriosly wrong. Any respected historian doesn't accept hearsay as evidence because there's no reliable way to proove it unless the person claimed to speak in them was alive. Hadith is a way to destroy freedom tha the Qoran gives to humankind. It's really revolting what some move up to for hadith terrorism, beating one's wife, killing dogs! & .
Good day!
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Peace all...and hello again after a long time.
It's been about 30 years since I decided to become a Muslim, and in all these years, I've never read the hadiths. I chose my religion based on reading the Quran. Not an easy decision, given the conditioning since childhood...much like those people who grew up being told the hadiths were sooo important, I would imagine.
Of course, when I made my choice known, there were a lot of people who came forward to "teach" me the proper ways and practices. The Arabs from the Gulf States had their suggestions, the North Africans had their suggestions, the Malaysians had theirs and so on and so on. Collectively, they just about ruined my faith, and I finally removed myself from contact with anyone who called herself or himself a Muslim.
I stopped praying, stopped fasting and didn't read the Quran at all for a few years. My belief in God didn't change and neither did my belief that following the Quran was the right way. Eventually, I did return to prayers and fasting and, of course, reading and studying the Quran. When I first found this site, I felt a rush of relief...you were people who were of the same mindset, and I learned a lot from reading posts and articles.
And I still don't understand the hadith thing. But okay...I didn't grow up that way.
Something I've never discussed with anyone is why there are people who are so quick to embrace these odd collection of rules, while they totally disregard the Torah. Why? God says there is no change in His ways or His Law. We are to view all prophets equally, and any discrepancies are cleared up in the Quran.
Indeed, the Torah is the Book and the Quran is clarification. The Gospel...well, we all have a sense of it, but the distortions are many. In the Quran, God tells us that this Message is confirming what came before.
Has anyone ever noticed that when "Alif Lam Ra" appears at the start of a sura, there is mention of the Torah?
Maybe this has all been discussed elsewhere and I missed it, but it does seem sometimes that we tend to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. And then some people want to go out and find some new water, just cuz they want more rules or something. Like prayer...and being told we have to pray five times a day (and having to hear that blasphemous story about how that came to be)...when there are three clear times mentioned. We have before the sun rises, before the sun sets, after the sun sets (at a time nearest the day), plus a prayer in the nighttime hours that gets us some additional spiritual gains. Hey, guess what...Jewish people pray three times a day. Why is this ignored entirely?
Any learned thoughts on these matters? Before the stones come out! (Or a link to a similar discussion, which I might have missed.)
Thank you.
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To Mino-taur Thank you for the link. I've read the discussions and articles about the number of prayers per day. Indeed, the discourse was what led me to consider the number of required prayers per day. Through prayer itself and study of the Quran, I came to the conclusion that there are three required prayers, with a fourth prayer of spiritual benefit.
There is a great possibility that people picked up the practice because it's what they were used to doing when they were worshiping false gods. The whole Kaaba thing and the ceremony people do as part of the Hajj...same thing there. It's no different with Christianity, where they have pagan practices that are part of their system now, simply because it was an appeasement and an attempt to appeal to people who didn't want to give up what they'd seen their fathers doing.
I see the Salat as a special gift to us...where we have a chance to come before our Creator and Lord, offering praise and seeking forgiveness and help. If you feel five times a day is required of you, then you have much time to formally come before God. May you find His Peace and Comfort always.
To Shila Yes, thank you, I would be delighted to elaborate. I didn't want to go into something that might have already been discussed here, since I've been away from this site for a while...only checking in now and again on articles.
There are five suras that start with "Alef Lam Ra," and each appearance is followed by a reference to the "Book." I'll use the FreeMinds translation here
101 ALR, these are the signs of the Book of wisdom.
111 ALR, a Book whose revelations have been made firm, then
detailed, from One who is Wise, Expert.
112 ?That you shall serve none other than God. I am to you from Him
a warner and a bearer of good news.?(story of Joseph)
121 ALR, these are the signs of the clarifying Book.
122 We have sent it down an Arabic revelation, perhaps you will comprehend.
123 We tell to you the best stories through what We have inspired
to you in this Qur?an; and before it you were of those who were
unaware.141 ALR, a Book which We have sent down to you so that you may
bring the people out of the darkness and into the light with
the permission of their Lord, to the path of the Noble, the
Praiseworthy.151 ALR, these are the signs of the Book and a clear Qur?an.
The "Book" is distinguished from the Quran in the last sura referenced. The Quran is a recitation/reading and not the "Book." That's the Torah, because it was written down by God and placed on the tablets Moses had. Those tablets are in the Ark of the Covenant, and since the Quran mentions the Book being protected, the Ark must be in some place that God has preserved it and kept it safe.
If we are to accept that Mohammed was saying these words, then I feel we must accept that his reading about the Book must refer to the Torah. The Quran was not collected into a book until much later, so how could Mohammed refer to it that way? Especially when he mentions the People of the Book...the Gospel is mentioned...and the Quran is mentioned and referenced as a Message.
If you look at certain interpretations of the Hebrew alphabet, then it gets interesting. "Alef" is the same sound, and the way this letter is written in Hebrew supposed refers to the relationship between God (on high) and man (below). The Ten Commandments have "Alef" as the first letter.
The second letter, "Lamesh," which I'm loosely using as an equivalent here, relates to aspirations, a heart that understands knowledge.
The third letter, "Reish," is taken to mean "clarification."
Those three letters would be an excellent way to refer to the Quran, which shines a clarifying light on God's Divine Messages, which are accepted and followed and studied by those with hearts who want to understand and who are given knowledge by our Lord, which leads us along the path of seeking God and His Ways, i.e., seeking a relationship with our Creator.
To me, if people want to enhance their understanding and enrich their souls and spirits with instructions outside the Quran, then the Torah would be more beneficial than a bunch of things written down by people who may or may not have been right. Or may have even wanted to distort God's Message. Even with the best of intentions, human observational powers are not that good. Perception skews things, and we are often entirely inaccurate in giving eyewitness accounts, even within minutes of having seen something happen.
The "beautiful example" of Prophet Mohammed comes through clearly enough in the Quran. He could not have recited such a Message without it coming through his whole being--the words had to ring true for him, and in those words are all the example that's needed. It's like the Gospel. Goodness knows, there are many versions! But Jesus' message of compassion and love and peace, that the spirit of the Law should take precedence, comes through. The Quran is our guide, a Message of understanding and clarification of what came before...with there being no change in God's Ways.
Peace.
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Peace Sytalls.
The book is the Qoran. Sometimes it is referred to as the book sometimes as Qoran sometimes as both
(story of Joseph)
121 ALR, these are the signs of the clarifying Book.
122 We have sent it down an Arabic revelation, perhaps you will comprehend.Torah did not come down in Arabic.
Peace.
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While it is difficult to agree with "good logic," I must.
The Quran is not the Book. As you just showed in what you highlighted, it was a revelation in Arabic...meaning the Book was revealed to Mohammed in Arabic. He was given knowledge and a Message, and that Message included stories and examples and information from the Book.
Why would God inspire Mohammed to recite "book" when the Quran was not written down until some time after the Prophet's death? References to the Book in which all things are written down before they happen and the People of the Book...those are clearly indicated. There is nothing in the Quran to indicate God instructed Prophet Mohamed to write out what he was told. Instead, he's told to recite/read, where doing a reading of an inspiration is much different than reading from an actual book.
The words were written on Mohammed's heart, in his soul, and it is miraculous what happened. It's actually more miraculous that Mohammed didn't write the Quran out and then commit it to memory. To do so would have given him a chance to cross-reference other stories and edit and polish...but, miraculously, the words just flowed out of him.
We do have that ability to cross-reference and study. The Quran is our guide as to what is correct and incorrect, should we choose to look at what is in the Torah. Yet, people go and collect a bunch of things, based on heresay, and take those rules over commandments God wrote down and even over the Message He sent down.
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3.23 Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who have been given a portion of the Book? They are invited to the Book of Allah, to settle their dispute, but a party of them Turn back and decline (The arbitration).
4.44 Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were given a portion of the Book? they traffic in error, and wish that ye should lose the right path.
4.51 Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were given a portion of the Book? they believe in sorcery and Evil, and say to the Unbelievers that they are better guided in the (right) way Than the believers!
is this a portion of Quran or a portion of The Book, The Book being the whole message?
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Good questions to ponder, Ayisha. There are probably passages that could be studied and checked or information to uncover who God was referring to here.
I know Christians sort of pick and choose from the Bible what they want to follow. When Paul comes into things in the New Testament, he changes the dietary laws and circumcision and puts some new rules in place. The Quran clears up those matters.
Early on in the third sura (33) God says He sent down the Book with Truth, and the Torah and the Gospel are mentioned. A lot of translators like to put Mohammed's name in parentheses after "you," but that isn't actually what the Prophet recited. Such implications lead people to certain mindsets, which get cemented over years of teaching and tradition. If God wanted to say He sent down the Book with Truth to His Prophet, then I believe that's exactly what God would say. Instead, He says He sent down the Book with Truth to "you"--to those fortunate enough to have listened to Prophet Mohammed's revelation and, maybe now, to you, to me, to all of us.
And 37 says this (using the Free-Minds translation again)
37 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which
there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book;
and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in
their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to
confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know
its interpretation except God and those who are well founded in
knowledge; they say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? And
none will remember except those who possess intelligence.I know how easy it is for "interpretations" to weave their way into our mindsets about things. For the first 26 years of my life, I ate Christmas ham after hearing the whole Mary and Joseph and the manager story. And then more ham after the crucifixion and rising from the dead story. Even though I was always unsettled and troubled by the concept of the trinity and God having a son, it was still difficult to step out and let go of what I'd been taught to believe. There have been four Methodist ministers in my family (three uncles and an aunt), and my mother was a Sunday School teacher.
Still, Truth triumphs when we stop clinging to tradition (or biases or entrenched ideas or you-name-it) and open our hearts and minds to God's Benevolent Guidance. For these last 30 years of my life, I've been profoundly grateful God led me through that door and I hope, through His Mercy and Grace, I continue to search for His Truth.
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Good questions to ponder, Ayisha. There are probably passages that could be studied and checked or information to uncover who God was referring to here.
I know Christians sort of pick and choose from the Bible what they want to follow. When Paul comes into things in the New Testament, he changes the dietary laws and circumcision and puts some new rules in place. The Quran clears up those matters.
Early on in the third sura (33) God says He sent down the Book with Truth, and the Torah and the Gospel are mentioned. A lot of translators like to put Mohammed's name in parentheses after "you," but that isn't actually what the Prophet recited. Such implications lead people to certain mindsets, which get cemented over years of teaching and tradition. If God wanted to say He sent down the Book with Truth to His Prophet, then I believe that's exactly what God would say. Instead, He says He sent down the Book with Truth to "you"--to those fortunate enough to have listened to Prophet Mohammed's revelation and, maybe now, to you, to me, to all of us.
And 37 says this (using the Free-Minds translation again)
37 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which
there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book;
and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in
their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to
confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know
its interpretation except God and those who are well founded in
knowledge; they say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? And
none will remember except those who possess intelligence.I know how easy it is for "interpretations" to weave their way into our mindsets about things. For the first 26 years of my life, I ate Christmas ham after hearing the whole Mary and Joseph and the manager story. And then more ham after the crucifixion and rising from the dead story. Even though I was always unsettled and troubled by the concept of the trinity and God having a son, it was still difficult to step out and let go of what I'd been taught to believe. There have been four Methodist ministers in my family (three uncles and an aunt), and my mother was a Sunday School teacher.
Still, Truth triumphs when we stop clinging to tradition (or biases or entrenched ideas or you-name-it) and open our hearts and minds to God's Benevolent Guidance. For these last 30 years of my life, I've been profoundly grateful God led me through that door and I hope, through His Mercy and Grace, I continue to search for His Truth.
Salaam, Sytalls
In both ayas you mention, the person addressed is second person masculine singular. Who is this second person singular masculine is not stated, but even if in intention the revelation is for all people, in the ayas the addressee is singular. In English it is not appreciated, but in Arabic it is clear and unequivocal.
Salaam
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Peace Sytalls.
The book is the Qoran. Sometimes it is referred to as the book sometimes as Qoran sometimes as both
(story of Joseph)
121 ALR, these are the signs of the clarifying Book.
122 We have sent it down an Arabic revelation, perhaps you will comprehend.Torah did not come down in Arabic.
Peace.
The book or the scriptures, which both ways is usually translated the Arabic alkitab, is part of the Qur'an and has been revealed to prophets, but the Qur'an is not al kitab, al kitab is part of it, but not all, al hikma, is also part of the Qur'an and was descended also to other prophets.
As to the torah, I am more and more convinced that the Torah, what we know as such, is not the same thing sas the Tawra which the qur'an mentions. The tawra es God's revelation. What is known as the Torah, by admission in the Torah itself may be a recount of something purported to be God's revelation, but is not revelation itself. The same thing with the Gospels. Both Torah and Gospels are hadith, just like the hadiths of the Muslims. They may be good, the may by excellent or rotten, but they are tjust that, hadith, and may or may not enclose pieces of revelation handed down through people, but they are not revelation.
It is a contradiction that we disparage against hadith and then take as authentic revelation previous hadith which are the reason why God revealed the Qur'an, precisely to set out truth from hearsay and conjecture.
Salaam