hajj / feast / debate

Noon_waalqalami

How else would you measure the number of years using day and night? Please answer. You will not be able to answer because it is impossible except by using the shortest/longest night/day.

Peace ayman,

Observe daily sunset/sunrise which have numerous reference points to count the years.

http//www.astronomynotes.com/nakedeye/sunset-position.png

http//www.stonehengetours.com/Simmer-solstice/equinox-Stonehenge.jpg

ayman

Peace Noon,

Observe daily sunset/sunrise which have numerous reference points to count the years.

Same as when you use the length of the day/night, the position at the equinoxes can't be used to count the number of years as per 1712 since it occurs twice in the year. Again, you can only use one of the solstices to count the years.

Peace,

Ayman

noshirk

salam

When you face north as indicated by polar star, day of equinox is exactly when sunrise occurs exactly from east.
Photo given by Noon waalqalami shows how ancient people can easily determine aquinox by aligning stones to north.
Equinox is when sunrise occurs exactly like in the photo

No need to even measure time. Years can be easily calculated.

it is also a qadar (measure in sense of middle) between the two extreme positions from wich sunrise occurs during the year.
it is the middle of Macharek
375 The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and what lies between them, and the Lord of the Machariq.
7040 So I do swear by the Lord of machariq wa magharib, that We are able.

Returning back to block of consecutive months. I read all arguments and i am not convinced.
Consecutive months theory have also to explain why this pratice is absent from "judaim" and "christianism"

Thank you brother ayman for informations about year 610.

Peace

Noon_waalqalami

Peace,

shr cycle (3412 and to Solomon the wind its early shr cycle and its late shr cycle)
al-shr the cycle

shryn two cycles

ashr cycles (prefix alif denotes plural)
al-ashr the cycles

shra cycle for (trailing alif denotes for/to e.g. 936 for 12 cycles)

936 indeed count al-shwr (what does ?wa? signify ? the cycle time-length?)

Wakas

peace Ayman,

Can you clarify if you have looked into other alternative meanings for shahr, e.g. lunar/moon-cycle or others. If so, and you opted for "full-moon" as it was the strongest in terms of evidence, can you briefly give us the main problems you found with other meanings?

I personally have not researched it in detail, but I think this info will be helpful.

Thanks.

ayman

shr cycle (3412 and to Solomon the wind its early shr cycle and its late shr cycle)
al-shr the cycle
shryn two cycles
ashr cycles (prefix alif denotes plural)
al-ashr the cycles
shra cycle for (trailing alif denotes for/to e.g. 936 for 12 cycles)
936 indeed count al-shwr (what does ?wa? signify ? the cycle time-length?)

In all those instances the meaning can be "full-moon". Just to illustrate my point, one can say "I will see you in two full-moons".

ayman

Can you clarify if you have looked into other alternative meanings for shahr, e.g. lunar/moon-cycle or others. If so, and you opted for "full-moon" as it was the strongest in terms of evidence, can you briefly give us the main problems you found with other meanings?
I personally have not researched it in detail, but I think this info will be helpful.

I have considered the alternatives and found full-moon to be the strongest. Here are some questions to ask

How can one witness a "lunar cycle"?

How can one count 12 lunar cycles in a year while keeping in line with the solar year as per 1712?

Is a woman's period as it is talked about in the same way as "shahr" in 2226-228 a cycle or an event? How does one count the woman's periods?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Noon_waalqalami

In all those instances the meaning can be "full-moon". Just to illustrate my point, one can say "I will see you in two full-moons".

Peace ayman; does this really make any sense to you?
3412 and to Solomon the wind its early full-moon and its late full-moon

Or is it talking about the morning and evening tide/cycle?
3412 and to Solomon the wind its early cycle and its late cycle

I have considered the alternatives and found full-moon to be the strongest. Here are some questions to ask

How can one witness a "lunar cycle"?

A cycle does not necessarily have to be lunar-cycle; depends on context and how does one fast it?
2185 ? so from shahida from you the full-moon so he should fast it (i.e. the full-moon)?

How can one count 12 lunar cycles in a year while keeping in line with the solar year as per 1712?

First ask what the "wa" in word exactly means? 936 indeed count al-shwr

Is a woman's period as it is talked about in the same way as "shahr" in 2226-228 a cycle or an event? How does one count the woman's periods?

It could be wait four menstrual cycles; depends on each woman and not wait four full-moons, use context ...

2226 to those who forswear from their women waiting four cycles so if they return so indeed The God Forgiving Merciful
2227 and if determine the divorce so indeed The God Hearing Knowing
2228 and the divorced women should wait by themselves three menstrual periods...

ayman

Peace ayman; does this really make any sense to you?
3412 and to Solomon the wind its early full-moon and its late full-moon
Or is it talking about the morning and evening tide/cycle?
3412 and to Solomon the wind its early cycle and its late cycle

The passage talks about the wind and not morning and evening tides. The winds are neither affected by the lunar cycle or the full-moon. So this is a special capability that the god gave to Solomon and therefore full-moon can be the meaning.

A cycle does not necessarily have to be lunar-cycle; depends on context and how does one fast it?
2185 ? so from shahida from you the full-moon so he should fast it (i.e. the full-moon)?

In all contexts full-moon works better than lunar cycle so there is no strong reason to switch the meaning.

First ask what the "wa" in word exactly means? 936 indeed count al-shwr

It denotes the plural. I am not sure what the difference is between "shohwr" and "ashohr". Both are plural and are fairly normal forms. For example, "forw3" and "afro3" both mean "branches" (plural).

It could be wait four menstrual cycles; depends on each woman and not wait four full-moons, use context ...
2226 to those who forswear from their women waiting four cycles so if they return so indeed The God Forgiving Merciful
2227 and if determine the divorce so indeed The God Hearing Knowing
2228 and the divorced women should wait by themselves three menstrual periods...

Firstly, means menstruations and not menstrual cycles. Secondly, how do you wait for four menstrual "cycles"? There could be two answers

Either to know precisely in what stage of the menstrual cycle a woman is right now and then match that precisely with the same stage after three cycles, which is extremely difficult.
Or start counting from her next period event. In this case you would need to count FOUR period events to get THREE menstrual cycles. So it would have been easier to simply say "count FOUR menstruations". Also, what we would be counting is actually menstruations not cycles.

Peace,

Ayman

Mazhar

Peace,

shr cycle (3412 and to Solomon the wind its early shr cycle and its late shr cycle)
al-shr the cycle

shryn two cycles

ashr cycles (prefix alif denotes plural)
al-ashr the cycles

shra cycle for (trailing alif denotes for/to e.g. 936 for 12 cycles)

936 indeed count al-shwr (what does ?wa? signify ? the cycle time-length?)

Salamun alaikum,

Sorry to point out that Arabic is neither read this nor translated like this. The information in parentheses is also not relevant to method of pluralization of singular words. For broken plurals there are fixed patterns.

First one has to know why the blud word is in accusative case. Arabic nouns are always nominative unless these are influenced by an actor to change their case to accusative and genitive.

The red word is in nominative case and absolute state. What is it doing in the text, whether it is subject, predicate and why is it in such circumstance?

Moreover what type of this "wind" is since it is definite noun?

ayman

Small correction

Firstly, means menstruations and not menstrual cycles. Secondly, how do you wait for THREE menstrual "cycles"? There could be two answers

Either to know precisely in what stage of the menstrual cycle a woman is right now and then match that precisely with the same stage after three cycles, which is extremely difficult.
Or start counting from her next period event. In this case you would need to count FOUR period events to get THREE menstrual cycles. So it would have been easier to simply say "count FOUR menstruations". Also, what we would be counting is actually menstruations not cycles.

noshirk

salaam brother ayman

i would like to get your attention on this thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604235.0 that derived from his initial subject

if quran was revealed one shot and not gradually, then the first verses in sourate al rum seems to indicate that the year of revelation is 614 since the battle is well known in history.
Notice that there was a full moon in 23 septembre 614 at exactly 1825

Peace

Mazhar

Firstly, means menstruations and not menstrual cycles. Secondly, how do you wait for THREE menstrual "cycles"? There could be two answers

Salamun alaik,

Perhaps a clarification was needed to let Noon correct perception about it. "Three cycles" cannot be its meanings for reason that is plural of abundance. An occassion of initiation of menstrual chischarge results in multiple discharges. It does not exhaust in one go. It continues for few days. is time adverbial in accusative case. And being possessive phrase is a single grammatical unit in the sentence.

Take note that in case of proclamation of husband's firm decision of suspending Matrimonial Bond-alienating his wife for eventual revoking Nikah/Matrimonial Bond in times after menstruation, the Alienated Wives should honestly and sincerely exercise self restraint from deciding their future course, for a time period of multiple menstrual discharges at three successive menstruation occasions.

Bender

salaam brother ayman

i would like to get your attention on this thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604235.0 that derived from his initial subject

if quran was revealed one shot and not gradually, then the first verses in sourate al rum seems to indicate that the year of revelation is 614 since the battle is well known in history.
Notice that there was a full moon in 23 septembre 614 at exactly 1825
Peace

Salaam,

Not true nope

23+614+18+25 is not divisible by 19
2+3+6+1+4+1+8+2+5 is not divisible by 19
23+614+1825 is not divisible by 19

RidaKhan

From PRL

= Haa-Jiim-Jiim = to intend to a certain target, aim at, repair, undertake, repaired/betook himself to or towards a person / place / object of veneration/respect/honour, went/visit frequently/repeatedly, pilgrimage.
Overcome another by/in argument/evidences/proofs/testimonies, plead, contend/argue/dispute.
Refrain/abstain.

undertaking
Noun

I would translate "hajj" as "undertaking/venture/enterprise".

2227 And call out to the people with the undertaking/venture/enterprise, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure.

Perfecto!... This person is spot on regarding the concept of Hajj. It is supposed to be a "conference" where Muslims from all over the globe can come and discuss how to maintain the Islamic economy, politics, social + other issues concerning our society/ planet. For futher reading, I had recommend Ghulam Ahmed Parwez's website Tolu-e-Islam, and look into his perspective about hajj as well.

I personally do not mind the rituals associated with Hajj- but the running and sacrificing a goat seems harsh. Nevertheless, I could talk while we jog lol!

Ashraf

From PRL

= Haa-Jiim-Jiim = to intend to a certain target, aim at, repair, undertake, repaired/betook himself to or towards a person / place / object of veneration/respect/honour, went/visit frequently/repeatedly, pilgrimage.
Overcome another by/in argument/evidences/proofs/testimonies, plead, contend/argue/dispute.
Refrain/abstain.

I would rather choose "Hajj" = "Overcome Another by" due to the fact that hajj season provide alternative meat supply during the restricted 4 full moon period for hunting wild life, promoted by Prophet Ibrahim (p) inside & surrounding Beit al-haram.

The business, conference, meeting - resulting from the hajj season - are the spillover effect of this divine instruction.

In short, Prophet Ibrahim hajj (overcame/circumvent/bypass) the hunting restriction.

Peace & Regards

Wakas

I almost forgot about this thread. Here is the updated article
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html

NewFrenzy

Do we need to fast first 10 days of Dhu al-Hijjah ???

And fulfil the HaJJ and the visit for God. So if you are prevented/restrained then (give) what is easy of the offering/gift and do not relieve/unburden your chiefs/representatives (of this duty) until the offering reaches its permitted/lawful place* so whoever from among you was sick or with him harm/annoyance of/from his chief/representative then redeem/ransom from abstinence/fast or charity or sacrifice/observance.
So when you are safe/secure (i.e. in the designated vicinty) then whoever benefited/enjoyed with the visit to the HaJJ then (give) what is easy of the offering/gift, so whoever couldn't find then an abstinence/fast three days during the HaJJ and seven when you returned, this is ten complete.
That is for one whose people are not present (at) the inviolable time of acknowledgement (al masjid al haram) and be conscious of God and know that God is severe in punishment.

Wakas

Do we need to fast first 10 days of Dhu al-Hijjah ???

I don't know where you got that from.

TellMeTheTruth

I don't know where you got that from.

( , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #196)
Fulfil the Pilgrimage and the Visitation unto God; but if you are prevented, then such offering as may be feasible. And shave not your heads, till the offering reaches its place of sacrifice. If any of you is sick, or injured in his head, then redemption by fast, or freewill offering, or ritual sacrifice. When you are secure, then whosoever enjoys the Visitation until the Pilgrimage, let his offering be such as may be feasible; or if he finds none, then a fast of three days in the Pilgrimage, and of seven when you return, that is ten completely; that is for him whose family are not present at the Holy Mosque. And fear God, and know that God is terrible in retribution.

Peace!