Ordinary Miracle (the English Trailer)
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Magnus, your story is just a story, a literary piece, with no philosophical merit. Besides, it distorts the facts, since 19 is mentioned in the Quran and all the major elements of the Quran (oasis in your example), including the letter/number combinations starting chapters, the first and the most frequent verse of the Quran, the number of chapters, etc are all based on the number 19. Besides its perfect integration of math (the divine language in universe) with human language, it is also an incredible prophecy... In other words, it is you who is confusing real oasis with mirage.
Your fancy words and scenario might impress some people who have problem with critical thinking, who wish to find an excuse, any excuse to escape from "one of the greatest signs" like a zebra, but those who are aware of the fact that "extra-ordinary claims need extra ordinary evidences" will just smile at your fancy.
For those who wish to read some articles on this issue, please visit
http//19.org/category/yuksel/19-gods-signature-in-nature-and-scripture/
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Magnus, your story is just a story, a literary piece, with no philosophical merit. Besides, it distorts the facts, since 19 is mentioned in the Quran
No such thing is mentioned in Qur'aan. What is mentioned in Qur'aan is Nineteen Males.
Arabic is not English. In English 19 is a number, and also something in a numbered series.
In Arabic it is only ninteteen male objects-personsNinteen Males
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Dear Edip, many people have told you what I am about to attempt to tell you. I have no particular reason to believe you will understand this time either, but I will do my best anyway
Imagine that the Book of God is like an oasis surrounded by a desert. This desert is littered with countless encampments of people. They are trying to cultivate their own plants to match those of the oasis, but for lack of good seeds, good soil or sufficient water they all fail.
Inside the oasis proper reside those who heed and obey the revealed words of God. They are more or less aware of the many wonderful aspects of absolute truth that can be understood by simply relaxing in the pleasant shade of the trees, drinking the water, looking around and contemplating reality with a humble heart and no particular personal agenda.
On the very edge of the oasis is a group of people, shading their eyes from the blazing sun and squinting towards the horizon. Some of them are very loud, and one of them is the very loudest. "Look, a mirage in the distance!" he shouts to all who will hear. "We can see a mirage! Isn't it wonderful? It's the greatest miracle we have ever seen! It's clearly a sign from God!"
A man from inside the oasis comes up and says in a kind and gentle way "Loud man, please lower your voice, there is no need to shout. What is this obsession with the mirage? What can you learn by endlessly gazing at a flickering image beyond the horizon? You are almost as foolish as those people over there trying to grow their own plants in the hot sun. Will you please turn around and come with me into the shade of this wonderful oasis where there are many things to discover?"
"Why are you running away from the wonders of the mirage? Here is a personal insult for you!" shouts the loud man.Personally, from learning about the miracle of 19 in teh Quran, i because absolutely certain that God existed... It would be like finding traces of UFO's on Mars and being absolutely certain that other life entities existed...
And one of purposes of eh number 19 is to INCREASE the faith of believers, and the people of the book would have no doubt... read 7430+
However, currently i do not believe in deleting 2 verses of the Quran, and thus i would believe that more research needs to be done with the number 19 on other Quran versions, not just the Hafs version.
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Personally, from learning about the miracle of 19 in teh Quran, i because absolutely certain that God existed... It would be like finding traces of UFO's on Mars and being absolutely certain that other life entities existed...
And one of purposes of eh number 19 is to INCREASE the faith of believers, and the people of the book would have no doubt... read 7430+
However, currently i do not believe in deleting 2 verses of the Quran, and thus i would believe that more research needs to be done with the number 19 on other Quran versions, not just the Hafs version.
I do agree with this opinion. Qur'an does seem to contain some mathematical structure as written by Layth about the Warsh and Hafs editions but I believe alternate possibilities must be explored as well to see how this could turn out.
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Why would the Koran require verification?
Does using cheap parlour tricks prove anything?
What if a claim was shown to be wrong? Would that disprove the entire Koran?
What if another book would conform in all ways to "23"? Would it be more verified than a book only in compliance with "19"? -
What if another book would conform in all ways to "23"? Would it be more verified than a book only in compliance with "19"?
Those infatuated with number are ignorant on basic math and no need for another book since most any prime number like 23 would suffice same which of course the higher the number the harder to find multiples like 29 ...
29 words in 1st chapter...
ch verse words letters
1 1 4 19
1 2 4 17
1 3 2 12
1 4 3 11
1 5 4 19
1 6 3 18
1 7 9 437 + 28 + 29 + 139 = 203 (i.e. 7 x 29!)
Ch W LTRs V GV
1 4 19 1 26040 130305 13020084050 13020081040
1 4 17 2 1308404 30305 2002 1307030401050
1 2 12 3 13020084050 13020081040
1 3 11 4 403020 10640 13041050
1 4 19 5 110120 507024 6110120 5060400701050
1 3 18 6 154501 130902009 13040604001001040
1 9 43 7 902009 1307001050 1507040400 703010540 100010200 13040100080062 703010540 6301 1308001301050Copy/paste above ch 1 sequence into calculator http//markknowsnothing.com/cgi-bin/calculator.cgi
See that the above sequence is divisible by 29!
Ch_______V_____Ch*V____Ch+V___57 Odd___57 Even
1st Half____________________________29 Odd____28 Even
1________7________7_________8________________8
2________286______572_______288______________288
3________200______600_______203_______203
4________176______704_______180______________180
5________120______600_______125_______125
6________165______990_______171_______171
7________206______1442______213_______213
8________75_______600_______83________83
9________129______1161______138______________138
10_______109______1090______119_______119
11_______123______1353______134______________134
12_______111______1332______123_______123
13_______43_______559_______56_______________56
14_______52_______728_______66_______________66
15_______99_______1485______114______________114
16_______128______2048______144______________144
17_______111______1887______128______________128
18_______110______1980______128______________128
19_______98_______1862______117_______117
20_______135______2700______155_______155
21_______112______2352______133_______133
22_______78_______1716______100______________100
23_______118______2714______141_______141
24_______64_______1536______88_______________88
25_______77_______1925______102______________102
26_______227______5902______253_______253
27_______93_______2511______120______________120
28_______88_______2464______116______________116
29_______69_______2001______98_______________98
30_______60_______1800______90_______________90
31_______34_______1054______65________65
32_______30_______960_______62_______________62
33_______73_______2409______106______________106
34_______54_______1836______88_______________88
35_______45_______1575______80_______________80
36_______83_______2988______119_______119
37_______182______6734______219_______219
38_______88_______3344______126______________126
39_______75_______2925______114______________114
40_______85_______3400______125_______125
41_______54_______2214______95________95
42_______53_______2226______95________95
43_______89_______3827______132______________132
44_______59_______2596______103_______103
45_______37_______1665______82_______________82
46_______35_______1610______81________81
47_______38_______1786______85________85
48_______29_______1392______77________77
49_______18_______882_______67________67
50_______45_______2250______95________95
51_______60_______3060______111_______111
52_______49_______2548______101_______101
53_______62_______3286______115_______115
54_______55_______2970______109_______109
55_______78_______4290______133_______133
56_______96_______5376______152______________152
57_______29_______1653______86_______________861653____5104_______________6757 Totals 1st Half
1653 = 57 x 29!
5104 = 176 x 29!
6757 = 233 x 29!2nd Half____________________________28 Odd___29 Even
58 = 2 x 29!
58_______22_______1276______80_______________80
59_______24_______1416______83________83
60_______13_______780_______73________73
61_______14_______854_______75________75
62_______11_______682_______73________73
63_______11_______693_______74_______________74
64_______18_______1152______82_______________82
65_______12_______780_______77________77
66_______12_______792_______78_______________78
67_______30_______2010______97________97
68_______52_______3536______120______________120
69_______52_______3588______121_______121
70_______44_______3080______114______________114
71_______28_______1988______99________99
72_______28_______2016______100______________100
73_______20_______1460______93________93
74_______56_______4144______130______________130
75_______40_______3000______115_______115
76_______31_______2356______107_______107
77_______50_______3850______127_______127
78_______40_______3120______118______________118
79_______46_______3634______125_______125
80_______42_______3360______122______________122
81_______29_______2349______110______________110
82_______19_______1558______101_______101
83_______36_______2988______119_______119
84_______25_______2100______109_______109
85_______22_______1870______107_______107
86_______17_______1462______103_______103
87_______19_______1653______106______________106
88_______26_______2288______114______________114
89_______30_______2670______119_______119
90_______20_______1800______110______________110
91_______15_______1365______106______________106
92_______21_______1932______113_______113
93_______11_______1023______104______________104
94_______8________752_______102______________102
95_______8________760_______103_______103
96_______19_______1824______115_______115
97_______5________485_______102______________102
98_______8________784_______106______________106
99_______8________792_______107_______107
100______11_______1100______111_______111
101______11_______1111______112______________112
102______8________816_______110______________110
103______3________309_______106______________106
104______9________936_______113_______113
105______5________525_______110______________110
106______4________424_______110______________110
107______7________749_______114______________114
108______3________324_______111_______111
109______6________654_______115_______115
110______3________330_______113_______113
111______5________555_______116______________116
112______4________448_______116______________116
113______5________565_______118______________118
114______6________684_______120______________1206555 6236 209029 12791 6555 6236 = 22605598692768664798812284 x 29!
Likewise, changing Chapter & Verses OR Odd & Even columns totals are still a multiple of 29!
6236 6555 209029 12791 6555 6236 = 22605598692768664798702295 x 29!
6555 6236 209029 12791 6236 6555 = 21505708692768664798812284 x 29!
6236 6555 209029 12791 6236 6555 = 21505708692768664798702295 x 29!
29 is prime!
12791 is prime!
209029 is prime!All chapters with an odd number of verses are a multiple ...
7165751291091231114399111135772279369734583758553895937352945495529131111312919251719152111195111139573355
= 29 x ...
29 initialed chapters in Qur'an.
Ltrs Ch Initials
1 3 2 Alif-Lm-Mm
2 3 3 Alif-Lm-Mm
3 4 7 Alif-Lm-Mm-d
4 3 10 'Alif-Lm-R
5 3 11 'Alif-Lm-R
6 3 12 'Alif-Lm-R
7 4 13 'Alif-Lm-Mm-R
8 3 14 'Alif-Lm-R
9 3 15 'Alif-Lm-R
10 5 19 Kf-H-Y-`Ayn-d
11 2 20 h
12 3 26 -Sn-Mm
13 2 27 -Sn
14 3 28 -Sn-Mm
15 3 29 Alif-Lm-Mm
16 3 30 Alif-Lm-Mm
17 3 31 Alif-Lm-Mm
18 3 32 Alif-Lm-Mm
19 2 36 Y -Sn
20 1 38 d
21 2 40 -Mm
22 2 41 -Mm
23 5 42 -Mm-Ayn-Sin-Qf
24 2 43 -Mm
25 2 44 -Mm
26 2 45 -Mm
27 2 46 -Mm
28 1 50 Qf
29 1 68 Noon435 78 822 = 1502718 x 29
Even and Odd verses totals are multiple of 29!
Even Odd
7
286
200
176
120
165
206
75
129
...
4
5
63514 2722 = 1211818 x 29
Likewise with chapter added
Even Chapter Odd
.........1 7
286 ...2........9 129
......113 5
6 114
3514 6555 2722 = 12119501818 x 29
All the Fibonacci stuff applies ...
http//www.maths.surrey.ac.uk/hosted-sites/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fibtable.html
Fibonacci (29) = 514229 is prime and ratio of consecutive Fibonacci numbers approaches the "golden number" Phi
Fibonacci (30) 832040 / Fibonacci (29) 514229 = 1.618033988748...ch_____verses___ch*verses
1________7________7
2________286______572
3________200______600
4________176______704
5________120______600
6________165______990
7________206______1442
8________75_______600
9________129______1161112______4________448
113______5________565
114______6________6846555 6236 209029 Totals
6555 - 6236 = 11 x 29
832040 - 514229 = 10959 x 29
6555 6236 - 6236 6555 = 109989 x 29832040 - 6555 = 28465 x 29
832040 - 6236 = 28476 x 296555 6236 832040 = 2260559890760 x 29
6236 6555 832040 = 2150570890760 x 296555 6236 209029 832040 = 2260559869276890760 x 29
6236 6555 209029 832040 = 2150570869276890760 x 29514229 - 6555 = 17506 x 29
514229 - 6236 = 17517 x 296555 6236 514229 = 2260559879801 x 29
6236 6555 514229 = 2150570879801 x 296555 6236 209029 514229 = 2260559869276879801 x 29
6236 6555 209029 514229 = 2150570869276879801 x 29This is very cool with Saad which there are exactly 29 and verses it appears...
381 Saad and the Qur'an full the reminder
1
3
6
13
15
17
20
21
22
24
28
31
36
37
38
41
44
45
46
47
52
56
59
63
64
69
83981 Total
136131517202122242831363738414445464752565963646983 981 = ... x 29!
Likewise with Noon and verses which it appears ...
681 Noon and the pen and what they write
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
521318 Total
1234567891011121314151617181921222324252627282930313233343536373839414243444546474849505152 1318 = ... x 29!
To verify simply copy/paste and divide by 29 http//www.markknowsnothing.com/cgi-bin/calculator.php
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Dear Edip, many people have told you what I am about to attempt to tell you. I have no particular reason to believe you will understand this time either, but I will do my best anyway
Imagine that the Book of God is like an oasis surrounded by a desert. This desert is littered with countless encampments of people. They are trying to cultivate their own plants to match those of the oasis, but for lack of good seeds, good soil or sufficient water they all fail.
Inside the oasis proper reside those who heed and obey the revealed words of God. They are more or less aware of the many wonderful aspects of absolute truth that can be understood by simply relaxing in the pleasant shade of the trees, drinking the water, looking around and contemplating reality with a humble heart and no particular personal agenda.
On the very edge of the oasis is a group of people, shading their eyes from the blazing sun and squinting towards the horizon. Some of them are very loud, and one of them is the very loudest. "Look, a mirage in the distance!" he shouts to all who will hear. "We can see a mirage! Isn't it wonderful? It's the greatest miracle we have ever seen! It's clearly a sign from God!"
A man from inside the oasis comes up and says in a kind and gentle way "Loud man, please lower your voice, there is no need to shout. What is this obsession with the mirage? What can you learn by endlessly gazing at a flickering image beyond the horizon? You are almost as foolish as those people over there trying to grow their own plants in the hot sun. Will you please turn around and come with me into the shade of this wonderful oasis where there are many things to discover?"
"Why are you running away from the wonders of the mirage? Here is a personal insult for you!" shouts the loud man.Excellent and very truthful analogy.
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Dear Edip; let my try a fable
Once a crow spread its wings and was carried by the wind to the summit of a mountain. It was a beautiful place populated by other animals, all of them obedient to the One who had given them life. The crow found that truth in all things prevailed on this mountain summit, that the view was beautiful and most instructive, and that all things considered there was no place he would rather be while alive as a crow made of flesh and blood, the components of which coincidentally were all to be found in the bedrock beneath his feet, over which small streams of clear water flowed. The crow said Glory be to our Creator who has made this earth beneath us and those heavens above, and everything in between. This is truly a wonderful mountain summit for the believers to reside upon!
Just beneath the very top of the mountain was a crossroads where many twisting and winding mountain paths met. All sorts of creatures travelled along these paths, sometimes camping out for a while, sometimes moving very little and very slowly. Others hurried as fast as they could go in circles, or back and forth, or were busy with various unproductive activities, like banging their own heads against rocks, or squabbling furiously among themselves. What united all these animals in their behavior was that they all were unable to lift their eyes toward the horizon. Every one of them kept their gazes firmly fixed on their own feet, or the ground in front of them, or upon some object they had themselves placed in front of their faces. Some animals even held objects in front of their faces while simultaneously moving along the mountain paths, by great skills of contortion or clever mechanical devices.
One day, the crow went to a convenient rock right next to the crossroads and waited patiently for some interesting animal to come wandering. In a short while, the crow spotted a goat, with a long goat beard growing from on its chin, wearing a special round hat on its head. On its back the goat carried a large, heavy-looking package.
Peace be upon you, goat! said the crow. What's that load on you back?
It contains an ornate stained glass jar inside which can be found the Book of God said the goat.
Would you like to talk with me about the Book of God that you keep inside the glass jar? asked the crow.
No. said the goat, I would much rather talk about this glass jar inside which the book is kept. It is an ancient jar, and the original design is said to originate with our beloved messenger, whom we call Magical Moe. Our learned scribes say that it is impossible to properly understand the Book of God without having much love and devotion to all things concerning Magical Moe. Also, we like to examine the Book through these cleverly constructed stained glass windows, to ensure that we don't forget how much we love Magical Moe when we show our deep devotion to the Book of God that Magical Moe gave us. I think you are a heretic for disregarding this glass jar we have constructed said the goat, and went along on his journey.Next came a donkey along another mountain path. Onto its back was strapped a wooden stick, projecting out in front of the donkey. From the end of the stick, tied to a short piece of string, dangled and swung a box-like object, right in front of the donkeys face.
-Peace onto you, donkey said the crow. what is that box hanging in front of your face?
-It's an ornate mosaic box inside which I keep the Book of God. I really can't stop and talk to you though, gotta keep moving! shouted the donkey.
The crow flapped over to the donkey and perched himself on the stick, midway between the donkey's face and the string from which the box swung.
-Now you can stay on the move while keeping up this conversation the crow said. Why the constant motion?
-If I stop moving, the box will stop swinging, and I'm afraid of any flaw I might spot in it should it become stationary said the donkey. I much prefer to keep it swinging on the string I have tied to it, because when it is in motion it looks just perfect to me! I really love to talk about this perfect box! I built some of it myself, though the basic design for its mosaic was passed down from my personal friend and messenger, whom I call the Count of Numbers. He showed me that you can make a mosaic pattern that matches certain aspects of numbers one can extract from the Book of God really well. He also showed me that even when the match is not perfect, you can squint your eyes a little like this and it looks just right! said the donkey, and squinted at the box. Yep, juuuust perfect.
-Uh-huh said the crow. Would you like to talk with me about the Book of God, which you keep inside that mosaic box?
-Nope. said the donkey. I am much more interested in the box itself - in fact, the only real use I have for the Book is to have something precious to put inside this mosaic box. The box is what really guides me. Did you know that when we change the letters forming the words of the Book of God just a little bit, it matches the geometrical pattern of the mosaic box even better! The Count of Numbers is where it's at, I tell you. Also, consider this Smart people who use science are credible. Scientists use numbers, and so did I, in making the mosaic pattern on this box. Therefore I am credible. Also, the Book of God is credible, and since I have built a pretty mosaic box around the Book, my box is also credible!
-That's not how science works, nor how the authority of God is transferred said the crow. Science demands intellectual discipline, it's not a word to be misappropriated for the propagating of arbitrary box designs. Be a wise donkey, allow this mosaic box to become stationary, and dare to examine any flaws that might be there. If your box was any good, it should be able to stand any scrutiny. Here's a question for you Does it say anywhere in the Book of God that we should build mosaic boxes around it?
-No. said the donkey, but I have have assumed it's the right thing to do anyway. After all I was told this by the Count of Numbers himself!
-And does the Book of God contain clear instructions regarding the authority of this Count of Numbers, or for this mosaic pattern of the box? asked the crow.
-Not literally, no, but we have chosen to interpret the Book of God to mean this anyways. Then we tried all sorts of box designs until we found one that looks really good if you squint a little and keep it dangling from a string, like I do. All those who do not chose to believe in the wonders of this box are surely ungrateful said the donkey and went on his merry way.The crow went back to the mountain summit, firm in the knowledge that no mosaic box could ever begin to compare to the benefits of the instructive view and the good companionship to be found there.
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Magnus, your story is just a story, a literary piece, with no philosophical merit. Besides, it distorts the facts, since 19 is mentioned in the Quran and all the major elements of the Quran (oasis in your example), including the letter/number combinations starting chapters, the first and the most frequent verse of the Quran, the number of chapters, etc are all based on the number 19. Besides its perfect integration of math (the divine language in universe) with human language, it is also an incredible prophecy... In other words, it is you who is confusing real oasis with mirage.
Your fancy words and scenario might impress some people who have problem with critical thinking, who wish to find an excuse, any excuse to escape from "one of the greatest signs" like a zebra, but those who are aware of the fact that "extra-ordinary claims need extra ordinary evidences" will just smile at your fancy.
For those who wish to read some articles on this issue, please visit
http//19.org/category/yuksel/19-gods-signature-in-nature-and-scripture/
Dear Edip,
With all respect to you, I want to say, we will be unfair to the Quran if we are obssessed with number 19. Even our body itself over a hundred times more powerful to prove God than number 19. If we concentrate on number 19 we will loose focus on Quran. Allah is not going to question us about any number system. Satan has been successful with Muslims. Those who are supposed to follow Islam in the right way (I mean people who follow Quran alone), majority of them are in a different trap by Satan.
Salam
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I must confess I am a little disappointed with the lack of criticism. -[
I know I enjoyed writing it, but did anyone enjoy reading the fable?
Should I write more, or differently?
Any constructive criticism is most welcome. I Sincerely want to improve as a writer, God willing. -
I must confess I am a little disappointed with the lack of criticism. -[
I know I enjoyed writing it, but did anyone enjoy reading the fable?
Should I write more, or differently?
Any constructive criticism is most welcome. I Sincerely want to improve as a writer, God willing.Salaam Magnus,
I enjoyed it very much )
And I think you are very talented, not as talented as me ofcourse but still very talented
I would certainly buy your book if you had plans for doing such thing in the future, but I guess as a good friend I will get it from you for free and ofcourse with your signature )Maybe the mods can make a sticky in the off-topic section for people who like writing stories.
Salaam,
Bender -
I must confess I am a little disappointed with the lack of criticism. -[
I know I enjoyed writing it, but did anyone enjoy reading the fable?
Should I write more, or differently?
Any constructive criticism is most welcome. I Sincerely want to improve as a writer, God willing.I enjoyed reading the fable...please do write more
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Yeah... Please write more fable, legend, fantasy, folktale, all sorts of stories ... You are very talented.. Wow. You are super ))
We all like stories; it is better than reading and learning facts. Learning facts is not easy. It also burdens us with the duty to accept it and stand for it. It is very difficult to accept a fact when the majority of people love stories and believe in stories.
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!
It is ironic that the Quran likens those who demonstrate allergy to the "one of the greatest" signs to donkeys. The donkey in the story is "projection" )
Peace,
Edip -
Peace All.
Are you studying the same Qoran that we are studying?
Those that do not see the " miracle " of
Why are you frightened of numbers?
What do you think mean?
( By the way how would you know where to look if I did not post you these numbers?)
Some claim God has not " numbered" and collected what we now have as "Qoran"?
Are some hesitant in case they have to acknowledge a human messenger?
Just like the older generations before, They deny and ridicule!
Believe what you want, the Lord is our judge .
Peace.
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Yeah... Please write more fable, legend, fantasy, folktale, all sorts of stories ... You are very talented.. Wow. You are super )
We all like stories; it is better than reading and learning facts. Learning facts is not easy. It also burdens us with the duty to accept it and stand for it. It is very difficult to accept a fact when the majority of people love stories and believe in stories.
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!
It is ironic that the Quran likens those who demonstrate allergy to the "one of the greatest" signs to donkeys. The donkey in the story is "projection"
Peace,
EdipPeace!
Dear Edip
You still haven't figured out my position on this issue, so let me first attempt to make clearer where I stand
I am a fundamentalist, and I am conservative in matters of faith. I figure what good enough for Abraham is good enough for me, and unlike you I don't feel I need blaze any new trails of knowledge, I would rather follow the original belief of the prophets.
I am not afraid to say that I reject any and all attempts at "islamic reform" - I am a Quranic literalist, which means I allow God to define what "islam" actually is, rather than trying to force my own or other's prejudices onto the meaning of this word, regardless of popular beliefs.God willing, you will find that I do not budge from this position easily, and that I am not running anywhere.
I am glad that my attempts at literature and storytelling has been appreciated. I chose to use literary devices and strawman how I perceive your position, because your position seems hard to pin down. You constantly refer to stuff you've previously written, yet you seem afraid to engage in a serious discussion about a serious issue which claims have authority from God behind them?
I stand by the underlying messages of both the desert parable and the fable, some of which I think you must have picked up on.
To clarify and re-iterate a point I made, where I have the donkey (representing you, Edip) saySmart people who use science are credible. Scientists use numbers, and so did I, in making the mosaic pattern on this box. Therefore I am credible. Also, the Book of God is credible, and since I have built a pretty mosaic box around the Book, my box is also credible!
This, in my opinion, is what all your books and arguments boil down to. The only way your ideas seem to have any merit is if you create the illusion of a connection to actual signs from God. In reality, none of these alleged connections have been properly established, and when someone like me call you on it, you huff and puff and run away.
For someone who speaks so much about "facts" (see my bolding of parts of your last post), it is ironic that you haven't really proven the major building blocks of your idea.You accuse me of being afraid of numbers, which isn't true - I find them useful in many ways in my daily life. What I am wary of is becoming mesmerized with them to the point where I forget that they are just abstract representations of something, and not-quite-real in themselves.
Somewhat related, this conversation made me think of Johannes Kepler. He was an astronomer who lived 400 years ago.
He spent most of his career trying to fit reality into a preconceived notion, rather than studying reality with an open mind.
This was his ideathis
http//i.imgur.com/izfyO.pnginside the center of this
http//i.imgur.com/siZek.pngHe thought that platonic solids inside each other had to decide where the orbits of things lined up in our solar system. The problem was that no matter how much he calculated and tweaked the model, it didn't quite add up. That's because he had erroneously and unquestioningly presupposed that orbits were circles. Towards the end of his life he finally questioned this falsity, and God guided him to understand how it actually works (relativistic effects disregarded), and express this in what we today call Kepler's three laws of planetary motion
http//i.imgur.com/XSyoN.pngIllustration of Kepler's three laws with two planetary orbits. (1) The orbits are ellipses, with focal points 1 and 2 for the first planet and 1 and 3 for the second planet. The Sun is placed in focal point 1. (2) The two shaded sectors A1 and A2 have the same surface area and the time for planet 1 to cover segment A1 is equal to the time to cover segment A2. (3) The total orbit times for planet 1 and planet 2 have a ratio a13/2 a23/2.
So, dear Edip, the last point I want to make in this post is this Your "code 19" is like Kepler's obsession with platonic solids and circles in his search for answers. If your idea was any good, it would not rely on blind faith or some subjective taste in the prettiness of certain numbers. Rather, a good idea built on correct presuppositions should be able to stand any scrutiny from any angle, including withstanding basic questions by a stubbornly conservative internet forum poster
- I personally hope I can justify or at the very least apologize for any aspect of my faith/its practice, just like I hope I can defend all the ideas I uphold as truth. If your approach toward honesty and truth are the same as mine, there is no good reason why we couldn't have a civilized discussion about the merits of your ideas without you becoming overly defensive or outright unpleasant with your words.
-
Yeah... Please write more fable, legend, fantasy, folktale, all sorts of stories ... You are very talented.. Wow. You are super ))
We all like stories; it is better than reading and learning facts. Learning facts is not easy. It also burdens us with the duty to accept it and stand for it. It is very difficult to accept a fact when the majority of people love stories and believe in stories.
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!
It is ironic that the Quran likens those who demonstrate allergy to the "one of the greatest" signs to donkeys. The donkey in the story is "projection" )
Peace,
EdipSalaam,
Everyone has hobbies, some like to write stories, some like to read stories and some others like to count the number of times our lips touch each other when reciting the first chapter.
Salaam,
Bender -
from
Edip
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!To Edip
So, please arrange more number games for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love numbers.. They are brought up with numbers since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some fancy 19 too... Much better than dealing with stories! -
Salam upon those who follow the rightousness!
God says that we should talk in nice manners with the people of the book!
Lets focus on the Ayat in the qhole of the Quran, what God says about 19! Brother Edip can you please share or link the miracle? The actual numbers!
Honestly i tried to make it by myself i couldent come to the same results, nothing was divisable by 19, Sobhanallah! I wish i could find my countings, it was a while ago! We could find it in submission.org before... -
Send me an email via your gmail.com address and ask me for the PDF verison of my book on Nineteen.
Peace,
Edip