Ordinary Miracle (the English Trailer)
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Magnus, your story is just a story, a literary piece, with no philosophical merit. Besides, it distorts the facts, since 19 is mentioned in the Quran and all the major elements of the Quran (oasis in your example), including the letter/number combinations starting chapters, the first and the most frequent verse of the Quran, the number of chapters, etc are all based on the number 19. Besides its perfect integration of math (the divine language in universe) with human language, it is also an incredible prophecy... In other words, it is you who is confusing real oasis with mirage.
Your fancy words and scenario might impress some people who have problem with critical thinking, who wish to find an excuse, any excuse to escape from "one of the greatest signs" like a zebra, but those who are aware of the fact that "extra-ordinary claims need extra ordinary evidences" will just smile at your fancy.
For those who wish to read some articles on this issue, please visit
http//19.org/category/yuksel/19-gods-signature-in-nature-and-scripture/
Dear Edip,
With all respect to you, I want to say, we will be unfair to the Quran if we are obssessed with number 19. Even our body itself over a hundred times more powerful to prove God than number 19. If we concentrate on number 19 we will loose focus on Quran. Allah is not going to question us about any number system. Satan has been successful with Muslims. Those who are supposed to follow Islam in the right way (I mean people who follow Quran alone), majority of them are in a different trap by Satan.
Salam
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I must confess I am a little disappointed with the lack of criticism. -[
I know I enjoyed writing it, but did anyone enjoy reading the fable?
Should I write more, or differently?
Any constructive criticism is most welcome. I Sincerely want to improve as a writer, God willing. -
I must confess I am a little disappointed with the lack of criticism. -[
I know I enjoyed writing it, but did anyone enjoy reading the fable?
Should I write more, or differently?
Any constructive criticism is most welcome. I Sincerely want to improve as a writer, God willing.Salaam Magnus,
I enjoyed it very much )
And I think you are very talented, not as talented as me ofcourse but still very talented
I would certainly buy your book if you had plans for doing such thing in the future, but I guess as a good friend I will get it from you for free and ofcourse with your signature )Maybe the mods can make a sticky in the off-topic section for people who like writing stories.
Salaam,
Bender -
I must confess I am a little disappointed with the lack of criticism. -[
I know I enjoyed writing it, but did anyone enjoy reading the fable?
Should I write more, or differently?
Any constructive criticism is most welcome. I Sincerely want to improve as a writer, God willing.I enjoyed reading the fable...please do write more
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Yeah... Please write more fable, legend, fantasy, folktale, all sorts of stories ... You are very talented.. Wow. You are super ))
We all like stories; it is better than reading and learning facts. Learning facts is not easy. It also burdens us with the duty to accept it and stand for it. It is very difficult to accept a fact when the majority of people love stories and believe in stories.
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!
It is ironic that the Quran likens those who demonstrate allergy to the "one of the greatest" signs to donkeys. The donkey in the story is "projection" )
Peace,
Edip -
Peace All.
Are you studying the same Qoran that we are studying?
Those that do not see the " miracle " of
Why are you frightened of numbers?
What do you think mean?
( By the way how would you know where to look if I did not post you these numbers?)
Some claim God has not " numbered" and collected what we now have as "Qoran"?
Are some hesitant in case they have to acknowledge a human messenger?
Just like the older generations before, They deny and ridicule!
Believe what you want, the Lord is our judge .
Peace.
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Yeah... Please write more fable, legend, fantasy, folktale, all sorts of stories ... You are very talented.. Wow. You are super )
We all like stories; it is better than reading and learning facts. Learning facts is not easy. It also burdens us with the duty to accept it and stand for it. It is very difficult to accept a fact when the majority of people love stories and believe in stories.
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!
It is ironic that the Quran likens those who demonstrate allergy to the "one of the greatest" signs to donkeys. The donkey in the story is "projection"
Peace,
EdipPeace!
Dear Edip
You still haven't figured out my position on this issue, so let me first attempt to make clearer where I stand
I am a fundamentalist, and I am conservative in matters of faith. I figure what good enough for Abraham is good enough for me, and unlike you I don't feel I need blaze any new trails of knowledge, I would rather follow the original belief of the prophets.
I am not afraid to say that I reject any and all attempts at "islamic reform" - I am a Quranic literalist, which means I allow God to define what "islam" actually is, rather than trying to force my own or other's prejudices onto the meaning of this word, regardless of popular beliefs.God willing, you will find that I do not budge from this position easily, and that I am not running anywhere.
I am glad that my attempts at literature and storytelling has been appreciated. I chose to use literary devices and strawman how I perceive your position, because your position seems hard to pin down. You constantly refer to stuff you've previously written, yet you seem afraid to engage in a serious discussion about a serious issue which claims have authority from God behind them?
I stand by the underlying messages of both the desert parable and the fable, some of which I think you must have picked up on.
To clarify and re-iterate a point I made, where I have the donkey (representing you, Edip) saySmart people who use science are credible. Scientists use numbers, and so did I, in making the mosaic pattern on this box. Therefore I am credible. Also, the Book of God is credible, and since I have built a pretty mosaic box around the Book, my box is also credible!
This, in my opinion, is what all your books and arguments boil down to. The only way your ideas seem to have any merit is if you create the illusion of a connection to actual signs from God. In reality, none of these alleged connections have been properly established, and when someone like me call you on it, you huff and puff and run away.
For someone who speaks so much about "facts" (see my bolding of parts of your last post), it is ironic that you haven't really proven the major building blocks of your idea.You accuse me of being afraid of numbers, which isn't true - I find them useful in many ways in my daily life. What I am wary of is becoming mesmerized with them to the point where I forget that they are just abstract representations of something, and not-quite-real in themselves.
Somewhat related, this conversation made me think of Johannes Kepler. He was an astronomer who lived 400 years ago.
He spent most of his career trying to fit reality into a preconceived notion, rather than studying reality with an open mind.
This was his ideathis
http//i.imgur.com/izfyO.pnginside the center of this
http//i.imgur.com/siZek.pngHe thought that platonic solids inside each other had to decide where the orbits of things lined up in our solar system. The problem was that no matter how much he calculated and tweaked the model, it didn't quite add up. That's because he had erroneously and unquestioningly presupposed that orbits were circles. Towards the end of his life he finally questioned this falsity, and God guided him to understand how it actually works (relativistic effects disregarded), and express this in what we today call Kepler's three laws of planetary motion
http//i.imgur.com/XSyoN.pngIllustration of Kepler's three laws with two planetary orbits. (1) The orbits are ellipses, with focal points 1 and 2 for the first planet and 1 and 3 for the second planet. The Sun is placed in focal point 1. (2) The two shaded sectors A1 and A2 have the same surface area and the time for planet 1 to cover segment A1 is equal to the time to cover segment A2. (3) The total orbit times for planet 1 and planet 2 have a ratio a13/2 a23/2.
So, dear Edip, the last point I want to make in this post is this Your "code 19" is like Kepler's obsession with platonic solids and circles in his search for answers. If your idea was any good, it would not rely on blind faith or some subjective taste in the prettiness of certain numbers. Rather, a good idea built on correct presuppositions should be able to stand any scrutiny from any angle, including withstanding basic questions by a stubbornly conservative internet forum poster
- I personally hope I can justify or at the very least apologize for any aspect of my faith/its practice, just like I hope I can defend all the ideas I uphold as truth. If your approach toward honesty and truth are the same as mine, there is no good reason why we couldn't have a civilized discussion about the merits of your ideas without you becoming overly defensive or outright unpleasant with your words.
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Yeah... Please write more fable, legend, fantasy, folktale, all sorts of stories ... You are very talented.. Wow. You are super ))
We all like stories; it is better than reading and learning facts. Learning facts is not easy. It also burdens us with the duty to accept it and stand for it. It is very difficult to accept a fact when the majority of people love stories and believe in stories.
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!
It is ironic that the Quran likens those who demonstrate allergy to the "one of the greatest" signs to donkeys. The donkey in the story is "projection" )
Peace,
EdipSalaam,
Everyone has hobbies, some like to write stories, some like to read stories and some others like to count the number of times our lips touch each other when reciting the first chapter.
Salaam,
Bender -
from
Edip
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!To Edip
So, please arrange more number games for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love numbers.. They are brought up with numbers since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some fancy 19 too... Much better than dealing with stories! -
Salam upon those who follow the rightousness!
God says that we should talk in nice manners with the people of the book!
Lets focus on the Ayat in the qhole of the Quran, what God says about 19! Brother Edip can you please share or link the miracle? The actual numbers!
Honestly i tried to make it by myself i couldent come to the same results, nothing was divisable by 19, Sobhanallah! I wish i could find my countings, it was a while ago! We could find it in submission.org before... -
Send me an email via your gmail.com address and ask me for the PDF verison of my book on Nineteen.
Peace,
Edip -
Finally, the documentary film is posted at youtube. The number 19 which remained a secret in chapter 74 (The Hidden) for 19x74 lunar years until it was unveiled by God in year 1974 to a monotheist scientist! It brought explanations to many verses and secrets of the Quran. Furthermore, it exposed the so-called muslims who have betrayed the only book delivered by Muhammad and their God-given brains by adhering the satanic teachings called hadith and sunna and sectarian jurisprudence. It proved the Quran's divine origin and its perfect preservation. It is "one of the greatest" that will distinguish the "progressive ones" from the "regressive ones" that will remove doubts in the heart of those who seek the truth and people of the book, and will disturb the ingrates and hypocrites who will not be able to witness the miracle; they will escape from it like zebras. (See www.19.org for details)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2myxJRz58Q
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Excellent video!
Splendidly well made! Congratulation to the authors!
Thank you
sun
peace
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Peace!
Dear Edip
You still haven't figured out my position on this issue, so let me first attempt to make clearer where I stand
I am a fundamentalist, and I am conservative in matters of faith. I figure what good enough for Abraham is good enough for me, and unlike you I don't feel I need blaze any new trails of knowledge, I would rather follow the original belief of the prophets.Well, Abraham Asked God to show him how he resurrected the dead ( a miracle) 2260.....
Abraham needed a sign/a miracle....I do believe in the #19 as a sign, but i believe that more research needs to be done with the number 19 on other Quran versions, not just the Hafs version, because i don't believe in deleting verses 9128-9.
14 Versions of the Quran!
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603179.0My personal Witness of the 19 miracle
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603419.0 -
Finally, the documentary film is posted at youtube. The number 19 which remained a secret in chapter 74 (The Hidden) for 19x74 lunar years until it was unveiled by God in year 1974 to a monotheist scientist! It brought explanations to many verses and secrets of the Quran. Furthermore, it exposed the so-called muslims who have betrayed the only book delivered by Muhammad and their God-given brains by adhering the satanic teachings called hadith and sunna and sectarian jurisprudence. It proved the Quran's divine origin and its perfect preservation. It is "one of the greatest" that will distinguish the "progressive ones" from the "regressive ones" that will remove doubts in the heart of those who seek the truth and people of the book, and will disturb the ingrates and hypocrites who will not be able to witness the miracle; they will escape from it like zebras. (See www.19.org for details)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2myxJRz58Q
Dear brother Edip, Salamun alaikum
Can you please make a comment on post 18, page 2, another 'miracle' of number 29? Thanks
It is certainly not number 19 that exposed the satanic teachings called hadith. There were a number of scholars in the past and present who questioned the authenticity of hadiths and presented Quran as a complete guidance. The contribution some of such scholars have given to us, for instance, Allama Parwez, is invaluable Regarding Parwez, his life long research produced many valuable books on Quranic teachings, the most celebrated of them being Ma?arif-ul-Quran in eight volumes, Lughat-ul-Quran (dictionary of the Quran) in four volumes, Mafhoom-ul-Quran in three volumes, Tabweeb-ul-Quran (Quran- Classified) in three volumes, Islam A Challenge to Religion, Insaan Ne Kiya Socha (History of human thought), Letters to Saleem in three volumes, Letters to Tahira, Qurani Faislay in five volumes, Shahkar-e-Risalat (the biography of the second Caliph Hazrat Omar), etc.
Wassalam
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Dear Aabdul
Tough the makers of this documentary used my work liberally and though they consulted me frequently, they produced it independently of me and I do not agree with some of the statement in documentary. I would not include the long numbers about al-Fatiha for instance.
I agree with you regarding the problem with such a statement, excluding many others. There were in the past, starting with Muhammad and his close companions who followed the Quran alone. Thus, none of them wrote or compiled hadith books. There were many afterwards, such as Abu Hanifa, Mutazila etc... I am aware of the great work and contribution of Allama Parwez...
On the other hand, I do believe that the discovery of the code 19 made the argument of those who reject hadith much stronger, since we do not need to rely on the trustworthiness of the previous generations for the perfect preservation of the Quran. Besides, it explains many structural features and meaning of many idiosyncratic phrases in the Quran. Furthermore, Rashad's argument for the rejection of hadith in Quran, Hadith and Islam is the strongest argument in the record.
Peace,
Edip