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  4. Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...

Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...

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  • B Offline
    B Offline
    Bahman
    wrote on last edited by
    #429

    Peace Nimnimak,

    Why do you assume that the titles were inspired by the god?

    No I am not talking about initials or words. I am talking about geometric decorations. Are you saying that you never saw the decorations in a typical printed copy of the quran? Here is scanned page where I higlighted the title of the chapter and the decorations found at the beginning of each chapter with red circles

    http//i38.tinypic.com/detxsz.jpg

    So again, are the parts highlighted with red circles (the decorations and the chapter title) inspired by the god?

    Peace,

    Ayman

    Peace
    If you know then please tell us more , when,who,where?

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    • A Offline
      A Offline
      ayman
      wrote on last edited by
      #430

      If you know then please tell us more , when,who,where?

      Peace Bahman,

      People started to name the chapters for the purpose of ease of reference. It is interesting that the earliest documented references to chapter names do not come from Islamic sources but from Christian sources. For example, John of Damascus in 730CE in polemics against the quran refers to the chapters named The Women, The Cow, The Table, as well as other names such as the chapter of the Camel of God. Of course, there is currently no chapter by that name. The manuscript was probably referring to Chapter 91, where the phrase the camel of god is mentioned. So the Chapter names were around in the early 8th century but were not yet well established.

      It is worth noting that what is presently termed Chapter 9 continues the same theme and rhyme of Chapter 8. Also, in early Quranic manuscripts the only separators were the Bismallah so Chapter 8 and 9 were one continuous chapter. It is only via the later chapter names and decorations that they became separated into 2 chapters.

      Not sure if this answered your questions. Of course, since we don't have a time maching then some questions cannot be answered with 100% certainty. The only thing I know for sure is that the chapter titles are 100% manmade. Therefore, truly relying only on what is god-given and not manmade, the only possible conclusion is that what is currently Chapter 9 is part of a big Chapter 8 and the great reading only has 113 chapters.

      Peace and best regards,

      Ayman

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      • G Offline
        G Offline
        good_logic
        wrote on last edited by
        #431

        Peace ayman.

        Who collected the Qoran? Who named the chapters? and Who separated sura 8 and sura 9 and gave them two different names?

        Peace.

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        • W Offline
          W Offline
          Wilson
          wrote on last edited by
          #432

          Peace.

          good logic Who named the chapters? and Who separated sura 8 and sura 9 and gave them two different names?

          ayman People started to name the chapters for the purpose of ease of reference. ... So the Chapter names were around in the early 8th century but were not yet well established. ... Of course, since we don't have a time maching then some questions cannot be answered with 100% certainty.

          Abdelilah

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          • G Offline
            G Offline
            good_logic
            wrote on last edited by
            #433

            Peace Abdelilah.

            Do we just accept that or do we search Qoran for the answer?

            Do you accept God collected the Qoran ?( Given instruction of how it should be put together and in what order?)

            What does 7228 mean?

            Peace.

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            • W Offline
              W Offline
              Wilson
              wrote on last edited by
              #434

              Peace good logic,

              Ofcourse.

              75 17-18 It is for Us to collect it and relate it. So when We relate it, you shall follow its revelation.

              Now do you accept that in the earliest manuscripts the only separator was the bismallah?

              Abdelilah

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              • G Offline
                G Offline
                good_logic
                wrote on last edited by
                #435

                Peace Abdelilah.

                I am familiar with the verse before. "Relate it "? where did this word come from?

                And what about 7228?

                Peace.

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                • W Offline
                  W Offline
                  Wilson
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #436

                  Peace good logic,

                  "Relate it "? where did this word come from?

                  Quran A Reformist Translation. You could ask Mr. Y?ksel or Mr. Al-Shaiban why they chose to translate "qur'anahu" this way.

                  And what about 7228?

                  7228 This is to ascertain that they have delivered their Lord's messages. He is fully aware of what they have. He has counted the numbers of all things.

                  1993-94 Every single one in the heavens and the earth is a servant of the Most Gracious. He has encompassed them, and has counted them one by one.

                  7829 We counted everything in a record.

                  ayman (in 2004)
                  "There is mathematical structure in ALL of The God's creation. The God has counted all things (7228, 7829, 1994, etc.), so the mathematical excellence of The Creator is an indisputable truth. It is also a fact that we will never be able to count as accurately as our Lord does.

                  What I have a problem with is when people remove and change parts of the great reading to make the data fit the desired results. They do it because they are more interested in "miracles" than in the truth. Their tempering is based on verse numbering, which is in itself a later day invention that was not part of the original text. Without the verse numbers, how do you know how many verses the 9th chapter has? How do you know where 91 or 9129 begin and end?"

                  PS I hope Dr. Ayman doesn't mind me quoting him.

                  Abdelilah

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                  • G Offline
                    G Offline
                    good_logic
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #437

                    Peace Abdelilah.

                    If God has counted the number of all things. Then the answer is there. We will know for sure when we understand how to get to the right"count" ie when God guides us to it.

                    I am certain God created Science and Mathematics to " show" us His proof in all that He has created.
                    His Qoran contains the Mathematical/Scientific proof?
                    Peace.

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                    • E Offline
                      E Offline
                      Edip_Yuksel
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #438

                      For those who are interested,

                      If you send me an EMAIL via YOUR GMAIL account and ask me Runing Like Zebras, I will allow you access to my GMAIL DRIVE where you can download the book for FREE.

                      The book contains my debate with Ayman and many other critics and skeptics, including Abdul Rahman Lomax, Bilal Phillips, Car Sagan and several other ingrates.

                      If you are interested in the paperback version, you may order it at

                      http//www.amazon.com/19-NINETEEN-Signature-Nature-Scripture/dp/0979671590/

                      Some information about the subject

                      http//19.org/category/yuksel/19-gods-signature-in-nature-and-scripture/

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