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  4. Are we going the wrong way ?

Are we going the wrong way ?

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  • H Offline
    H Offline
    hawk99
    wrote on last edited by
    #134

    Try starting with Juynboll, Schacht, Patricia Crone and other orientalist.

    Peace Bigmo,

    What's an "orientalist."

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    • M Offline
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      mmkhan
      wrote on last edited by
      #135

      I think TRUTH is SINGLE like you said. Don't forget that among Allah's 99 names is THE Truth!

      Therefore Allah is the only TRUTH. So I guess you will only find your answers with Him. Allah Only knows. Allah forgive me for any mistakes I may have said.

      Salaam,

      hypno

      mmKhan

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        Bigmo
        wrote on last edited by
        #136

        Peace Bigmo,

        What's an "orientalist."

        Its a term usually used for Western scholars of the Middle East. They are not free from bias but at least they try to provide academic evidence.

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        • H Offline
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          hawk99
          wrote on last edited by
          #137

          Its a term usually used for Western scholars of the Middle East. They are not free from bias but at least they try to provide academic evidence.

          Peace Bigmo,

          So an orientalist can be said to be a view from the outside.

          Thanks O0

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          • U Offline
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            unknownuser
            wrote on last edited by
            #138

            Salaam,

            hypno

            mmKhan

            Peace mmKhan...

            She did ask for forgiveness for any mistakes she made...go easy )

            Peace Madiha...

            I think the 99 names of Allah is not something based on the teachings of the Qur'an...and that may be what brother mmKhan is getting at. No worries...I was the same way when I first started here...I found that most of what I knew was based on hadith. Just goes to show how corrupted the Sunni faith really is. )

            -Amina

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              Zulf
              wrote on last edited by
              #139

              Humans are fallible. We are given a divine scripture and told to ponder on it, read it and apply it. We will never get it right 100%. I've come to conclusion that there is no perfect way of doing it. But just do it the best way that we can while being HONEST to ourselves (not read into the verses and try to see what we want to see).

              I like what you write in your post. I agree!
              I also think that people often are to quick to demand uniformity in things where it is not needed. People forget that each and everyone is at a different level of understanding at different times in life. Not any one person's world is like any other's. We all have our own different worlds, which are how we perceive things, our past experiences, our perspectives and understandings... and it can never be the same for any two individuals. The things that should unite people, the common denominator, should be direction and intention they have... that is to strive to grow, understand more and better and only spread goodness - the sincere search for truth. In order to spread goodness, one must keep growing and developing as a person, and in one's understanding of self, life, reality. To stagnate in a mold/belief system/understanding is to invite an inevitable decay at every level of oneself.

              I find it quite interesting to ponder over the fact that if you think you "know it all" and have THE answers and know THE correct religion, then you are indirectly saying that you have the knowledge of God. If you agree that you don't have the knowledge of God, the you'd realize that there will ALWAYS be plenty of room for growth and new understanding. This can be humbling. But religion doesn't teach real humility, coz real humility would threaten the fixed system of religions. Religions only teache a "safe" kind of humility that's designed to make you feel good and proud about yourself.

              Peace
              Kind regards

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              • M Offline
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                mmkhan
                wrote on last edited by
                #140

                Peace mmKhan...

                She did ask for forgiveness for any mistakes she made...go easy

                Peace Amina,

                I was just trying to highlight that to think thank you anyway.

                mmKhan

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                • U Offline
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                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #141

                  Peace Amina,

                  I was just trying to highlight that to think thank you anyway.

                  mmKhan

                  Peace mmKhan,

                  If I was out of line I apologize. You do make people think, and I think that is awesome of you...I just remember how it was when I first became a member of the forum and everything I posted was hadith based...it was so unsettling to discover that I knew hardly anything of the Qur'an.

                  -Amina

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                  • M Offline
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                    mmkhan
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #142

                    Peace mmKhan,

                    If I was out of line I apologize. You do make people think, and I think that is awesome of you...I just remember how it was when I first became a member of the forum and everything I posted was hadith based...it was so unsettling to discover that I knew hardly anything of the Qur'an.

                    -Amina

                    Peace Amina,

                    Thank you very much for your kind words and no need for apology handshake

                    I believe that it is better if each one of us do some kind of research before concluding anything from alQuraan. We all know how to check our grocery items before buying them, we also know very well how to check vegetables before bringing it home, we all know checking every thing is working in a house even if we are going to get it on rent, rest aside buying. But unfortunately many people forget to use their ability of judging between correct and wrong when it comes to alQuraan, and believe in what they like in other's work.

                    In fact, it is our duty to check by ourselves with our given capabilities. This is how I think and that is why I send alerts sometimes

                    May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                    mmKhan

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                    • U Offline
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                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #143

                      Peace Amina,

                      Thank you very much for your kind words and no need for apology handshake

                      I believe that it is better if each one of us do some kind of research before concluding anything from alQuraan. We all know how to check our grocery items before buying them, we also know very well how to check vegetables before bringing it home, we all know checking every thing is working in a house even if we are going to get it on rent, rest aside buying. But unfortunately many people forget to use their ability of judging between correct and wrong when it comes to alQuraan, and believe in what they like in other's work.

                      In fact, it is our duty to check by ourselves with our given capabilities. This is how I think and that is why I send alerts sometimes

                      May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                      mmKhan

                      If I may quote from the Bible "As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another." Not sure the exact proverb that is from, but it was one of my favorites when I was a Christian...a reminder that we can and do learn from one another. So keep sending those alerts, Insha'Allah, because I know I have benefitted from them several times.

                      Peace,

                      Amina

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                      • M Offline
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                        mmkhan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #144

                        If I may quote from the Bible "As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another." Not sure the exact proverb that is from, but it was one of my favorites when I was a Christian...a reminder that we can and do learn from one another. So keep sending those alerts, Insha'Allah, because I know I have benefitted from them several times.

                        Peace,

                        Amina

                        Peace Amina,

                        Yes, its very true that we learn from each other. And thank you for allowing me to send alerts

                        May Allah bless you,
                        mmKhan

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                        • P Offline
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                          PixelAngelBaby
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #145

                          Salaam,

                          hypno

                          mmKhan

                          Peace mmKhan...

                          She did ask for forgiveness for any mistakes she made...go easy

                          Peace Madiha...

                          I think the 99 names of Allah is not something based on the teachings of the Qur'an...and that may be what brother mmKhan is getting at. No worries...I was the same way when I first started here...I found that most of what I knew was based on hadith. Just goes to show how corrupted the Sunni faith really is.

                          -Amina

                          They ARE mentioned in the quran. Now forgive the source of this article but it will show my point

                          http//muttaqun.com/99names.html

                          Look at the 99 names with their cited verses in the Quran at the bottom half. I looked it up before I posted my previous post.

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                          • L Offline
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                            Lena
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #146

                            there is only one TRUTH - one God, life here is finite, after death is life hereafter, Day of Judgement where we have to stand account to how we lived this life, good deeds get rewarded and bad deeds will be punished. the goal is to attain piety.

                            the koran is a guide book to getting there - offering tools to achieving the goal. there are different ways of getting there.

                            having different ways of getting to end point doesn't alter the TRUTH. problem is we tend to obsess over form, details, numbers...losing sight of the TRUTH. we tend to complicate life, having our own ideas each claiming his way is better or right way or the only way.

                            one example is 'salat'. God tells us what the purpose of salat is. yet, you have people pre-occupied with form, numbers, timing, focusing on the details but missing the point. instead of focusing on the TRUTH - we tend to focus, argue, divide over things, and creating all this confusion.

                            God is not wrong. We are just stupid.

                            bravo

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                            • U Offline
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                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #147

                              They ARE mentioned in the quran. Now forgive the source of this article but it will show my point

                              http//muttaqun.com/99names.html

                              Look at the 99 names with their cited verses in the Quran at the bottom half. I looked it up before I posted my previous post.

                              Al Hamdulilah! That is good to know!

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                              • M Offline
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                                mmkhan
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #148

                                They ARE mentioned in the quran. Now forgive the source of this article but it will show my point

                                http//muttaqun.com/99names.html

                                Look at the 99 names with their cited verses in the Quran at the bottom half. I looked it up before I posted my previous post.

                                Salaam PAB,

                                Thanks for your reply. One question for you Did Allah said that those are Allah's names?

                                May Allah bless you,
                                mmKhan

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                                  PixelAngelBaby
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #149

                                  Salaam PAB,

                                  Thanks for your reply. One question for you Did Allah said that those are Allah's names?

                                  May Allah bless you,
                                  mmKhan

                                  Wa aleykom asalam,

                                  I honestly don't know if Allah said that those are his names. But they certainly are of his traits/descriptions/characteristics. Isn't Maryam qouted to have called upon Al Rahman, when Gabriel came to her, in the Quran? Sounds like a name or attribute of Allah to me.

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                                  • M Offline
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                                    mmkhan
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #150

                                    Wa aleykom asalam,

                                    I honestly don't know if Allah said that those are his names. But they certainly are of his traits/descriptions/characteristics. Isn't Maryam qouted to have called upon Al Rahman, when Gabriel came to her, in the Quran? Sounds like a name or attribute of Allah to me.

                                    Salaam Madiha,

                                    Thank you for your honest reply.

                                    Sorry for another question from your message above . How do you know that was Gabriel where alQuraan does not say so? Now, back to our topic.

                                    7180 says there are And for Allah are the most beautiful "alasmaa"... . Ism means attribute not name.

                                    4911
                                    4911 O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by nicknames. Wretched is al-Ism of disobedience after faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

                                    We can see that giving others nicknames are based on their attribute and it is called al-Ism in 4911

                                    5924
                                    5924 He is Allah , the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best attributes. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

                                    The highlighted ones are the only beautiful attributes of Allah. Please note "laHu" which is referring back to the word "Allah" by saying "to Him belong the best attributes". You may not find such aayat anywhere else in alQuraan, clarifying in such a way, please do let me know if you find any.

                                    May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                                    mmKhan

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                                      PixelAngelBaby
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #151

                                      7180 says there are And for Allah are the most beautiful "alasmaa"... . Ism means attribute not name.

                                      But what about Bism Allah Al Rahman Al Raheem? Doesn't it translate to > In the Name of Allah the Most Gracious/Almighty the Most Merciful?

                                      I accept that they are attributes, but given Bism in the beginnings of all chapters is refered to as Name, then perhaps the other Isms in the Quran are name, too? I don't know, you probably read more of the arabic lexion than I have. But I'm just trying to understand.

                                      Thank you for teaching me mmkhan )

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                                      • H Offline
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                                        hawk99
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #152

                                        Peace,

                                        The Quran does not say "in the attribute" but "in the name"

                                        also

                                        007.180
                                        Walillahi al-asmao alhusna faodAAoohu biha watharoo allatheena yulhidoona fee asma-ihi sayujzawna ma kanoo yaAAmaloona
                                        YUSUFALI The most beautiful names belong to Allah so call on him by them; but shun such men as use profanity in his names for what they do, they will soon be requited.

                                        PICKTHAL Allah's are the fairest names. Invoke Him by them. And leave the company of those who blaspheme His names. They will be requited what they do.

                                        SHAKIR And Allah's are the best names, therefore call on Him thereby, and leave alone those who violate the sanctity of His names; they shall be recompensed for what they did.

                                        KHALIFA To GOD belongs the most beautiful names; call upon Him therewith, and disregard those who distort His names. They will be requited for their sins.

                                        Sahih International He is Allah , the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

                                        Pickthall He is Allah, the Creator, the Shaper out of naught, the Fashioner. His are the most beautiful names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.

                                        Yusuf Ali He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

                                        Shakir He is Allah the Creator, the Maker, the Fashioner; His are the most excellent names; whatever is in the heavens and the earth declares His glory; and He is the Mighty, the Wise.

                                        Muhammad Sarwar He is the Creator, the Designer, the Modeler, and to Him belong all virtuous names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. He is All-majestic and All-wise.

                                        Mohsin Khan He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names . All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.

                                        Arberry He is God, the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the All-mighty, the All-wise.

                                        Peace O0

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                                          Lena
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #153

                                          . . Ism means attribute not name.

                                          Salaam MMKhan As a beginner level Arabic speaker I am wondering doesn't the Arabic words "ismi Lena" translate to "my name is Lena" an doesn't shishmak/ shishmik mean whats your name? Aren't these two words related to ism?
                                          Thanks.

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