Why did God reveal the Quran through a messenger?

Someone

Oh dear, no, none of that makes sense, is correct or in the least compelling. It is mere special pleading. It is illogical, wrong and - at best - wishful thinking.

Would you please then enlighten me by explaining your position about the existence or not of a creator? Please use your own terms in a short demonstration, I am not interested in long articles.

StopS

Would you please then enlighten me by explaining your position about the existence or not of a creator? Please use your own terms in a short demonstration, I am not interested in long articles.

I was under the impression that this is the purpose of the introductory area.

Since you seem unable to answer my questions, I will answer yours.
My position none.
Demonstrate this oh boy! what a crazy world. Please demonstrate how I should demonstrate a creator or a non-creator. Good luck. Look, why don't you ask sensible questions?
Yes, I would imagine that you would not be interested in "long articles" whatever that may mean.

Now tell me does any of this lead anyone towards an understanding of why the Koran had to be revealed through a messenger?

Bender

If someone says the Koran is clear because the Koran says it is clear it's circular.

Salaam,

Not if the Quran is The Truth. And that is what we (most of us in this forum) believe in here. Not for you, I know... but for us it is the truth.
So there is nothing circular. These kind "intelligent" observations will maybe work for you somewhere else but not here where people in here want answers from The Quran.

It's a Free-Minds forum where people should give honest and coherent opinions to questions.

sure, I agree. But if your questions don't make sense what kind of answers are you expecting?
Can you answer for me this question please
Why is grass red?

Again if you would tell me what it is that does not make sense I could rectify it.

ok

Why indeed was anything transmitted by a human, a single human?

Can you first proof for me that it was transmitted by a single human.
If you can't then this question does not make sense.

Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?

If He had sent 7 billjon books then you would have complaint why not 1 Book for everyone.
Or maybe you would have complaint why it's forbidden for you in your book to drink alcohol while in my book it's a good deed to get drunk.

We have to do it with 1 Book in arabic, we have only to follow in the best way what is clear to to us from The Book. You will not be set accountable for things you have no knowledge of.

This is what The Quran says
548 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth,
authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding
it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow
their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you
We have made laws, and a structure; and if God had willed, He would
have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given
you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He
will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.

Why not set the golden tablets, the originals,into the desert next to Mecca?
I am not sure from where you got the red part. And I also don't understand the green part, why Mecca???

Why not transmit the contents telepathically so everyone understands it without having to read or rely on translations and error-prone interpretations by humans?
This kind of question is of the form
Why did God not made for us 2 eyes so that we can see.
FYI, it's content is transmitted telepathically, only you don't know this.

Why not hard-wire it into humans like every human understand a smile?
Not sure what you mean. You want the text/message of The Quran coded in your brains or what?

Why indeed first dictate a book which was written trillions of years earlier commanding a praying direction or allowing alcohol and only when this proves to be a problem change the contents?
Source please for your claim.

Why include parts which humans don't understand?
You may understand things that I don't understand and I may understand things you don't understand.
And what you don't understand today, maybe you will understand it tomorrow.
We are only accountable for the things we understand, very easy.

Why create humans 200,000 years ago and only start supplying guidance very recently?
I read in a other post of you, that you have read The Quran several times, how come then that you ask such questions?
Already in the beginning of chapter 2 you can read what The Quran says about this.
Sorry to say, but from your questions it seems you have very little knowledge of The Quran and the little knowledge you have is based on sources outside The Quran.

I am quite aware of my questions. Just because you are unable to answer them you now question the veracity of my questions? Come on!

Did you really think you had some genius questions hmm

Maybe an advise for the next time is to take a second look at your questions before you ask.
Please don't include in your questions things which are not from The Quran and then present it as if it is in The Quran.
Like I told you before, in a sunni forum or any other not "Quran Alone forum" you would have great succes with these kind of questions but in here nope

You want me to prove what?

You said "FROM GOD TO ANGEL"
I asked if you can proof this.
This means Can you proof for me from The Quran that The Quran states that The Quran was revealed FROM GOD TO AN ANGEL.
Looks to me like a very simple question. If you can't answer it, then try next time not to write things as a fact in your questions.

Do you want me to find how Muhammad received the Koran?

Did I mention Mohammed hmm

Why don't you tell us what your definition of the transmission of the Koran is. Maybe I can learn something.

Finally a question that makes sense.

Can you answer just one easy question?

Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?

I asnwered this above.
Btw, sorry to say but even if your questions were correct, then they still look like questions from a crybaby.

Salaam,
Bender

Someone

I was under the impression that this is the purpose of the introductory area.

Since you seem unable to answer my questions, I will answer yours.
My position none.
Demonstrate this oh boy! what a crazy world. Please demonstrate how I should demonstrate a creator or a non-creator. Good luck. Look, why don't you ask sensible questions?
Yes, I would imagine that you would not be interested in "long articles" whatever that may mean.

Now tell me does any of this lead anyone towards an understanding of why the Koran had to be revealed through a messenger?

Peace StopS,

It seems that we have a communication problem between the 2 of us, and that we are unable to convey our "simple" ideas to the other side. I can accept our differences and live with it, as I am of the peacemakers. Can you do the same and avoid acting as a troublemaker?

Can you be more constructive in your interventions? Arguing for the sake of arguing is a waste of time, I would advise that you spend your time in more useful activities.

Peace

StopS

Why is grass red?

Because maybe you want it that way?

Can you first proof for me that it was transmitted by a single human.

6943 ff say that (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds. And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart

This to me says one person, Muhammad received the contents and spread it to his followers.

Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?

Instead of telling me what I think you should look and try and understand the question. I asked why not provide 1 book, with an identical contents, just in the reader's language.

I asked WHY it was sent via a messenger and why not use alternatives. Stating what I know does not really help.

Why not set the golden tablets, the originals,into the desert next to Mecca?
I am not sure from where you got the red part. And I also don't understand the green part, why Mecca???

I read this on a lot of Muslim sites

Use of the Koran

The two main important issues of the Koran for the believer are

Being the focal point of all Muslims. The Koran is regarded by most as the uncreated word of God, written on golden tablets in Paradise.

But you are right to ask this question, because I see now that it says only protected. (5677?78; 8521?22)

And Mecca was just an example of a place considered holy. So, let me reword my question to make it more precise
Why not set the tablets, the originals, where humans will have access to them forever?

Why not transmit the contents telepathically so everyone understands it without having to read or rely on translations and error-prone interpretations by humans?

So you don't know.

Why not hard-wire it into humans like every human understand a smile?
Not sure what you mean. You want the text/message of The Quran coded in your brains or what?

Yes.

Why indeed first dictate a book which was written trillions of years earlier commanding a praying direction or allowing alcohol and only when this proves to be a problem change the contents?
Source please for your claim.

The Koran
2142ff The fools among the people will say "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say To Allah belong both east and West He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful. We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do. Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

Re alcohol
Also the Koran
2219 In both there is great sin, and some benefits for people.
443 Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken
590 Wine, gambling, altars and divining arrows are filth, made up by Satan. Therefore, refrain from it, so that you may be successful.

Why include parts which humans don't understand?
You may understand things that I don't understand and I may understand things you don't understand.
And what you don't understand today, maybe you will understand it tomorrow.
We are only accountable for the things we understand, very easy.

Again you are telling what is and not why. Your statements are true and common sense. But there are 29 single letter "verses" which nobody understands or ever will.

Why create humans 200,000 years ago and only start supplying guidance very recently?
I read in a other post of you, that you have read The Quran several times, how come then that you ask such questions?
Already in the beginning of chapter 2 you can read what The Quran says about this.
Sorry to say, but from your questions it seems you have very little knowledge of The Quran and the little knowledge you have is based on sources outside The Quran.
Did you really think you had some genius questions hmm

Again you don't understand the question and yet see fit to go all haughty. Why? I am human. I am not perfect. I am asking for help.
No, the Koran does not explain why it was 200,000 years after humans existed. It just says why it was revealed, not why it was revealed 200,000 years too late.

And no, I do not consider them genius anything. If I were a genius I would not be asking these simple questions, would I?
Now can you answer something or not?

Maybe an advise for the next time is to take a second look at your questions before you ask.
Please don't include in your questions things which are not from The Quran and then present it as if it is in The Quran.
Like I told you before, in a sunni forum or any other not "Quran Alone forum" you would have great succes with these kind of questions but in here nope

Why not take a closer look at the question?

If I knew the answer in advance I would not ask it, would I?
If I look at my questions, though, what was a question not regarding the Koran?

You said "FROM GOD TO ANGEL"
I asked if you can proof this.
This means Can you proof for me from The Quran that The Quran states that The Quran was revealed FROM GOD TO AN ANGEL.
Looks to me like a very simple question. If you can't answer it, then try next time not to write things as a fact in your questions.
Did I mention Mohammed hmm

I said this is what I understand. I took this understanding from the Koran, where it says in
297 Say Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe

I asked this question as I was not aware that I seem to know the Koran better than you do and have to provide proof for all my statements when they come from the Koran. I am sorry, I admit I missed this option and will try to follow your advice.

Why don't you tell us what your definition of the transmission of the Koran is. Maybe I can learn something.
Finally a question that makes sense.

And the answer is.....???

I asnwered this above.
Btw, sorry to say but even if your questions were correct, then they still look like questions from a crybaby.

Salaam,
Bender

I deleted my reply because you are getting simply childish and unprofessional. I will not go there.
No, you did not answer the question, because you still don't bother reading it.

Bender

Because maybe you want it that way?

Salaam,

You summed it up very nice )
exactly what I mean.

6943 ff say that (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds. And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart

This to me says one person, Muhammad received the contents and spread it to his followers.

hypno

I am not sure who the transator is, but this is a horrible translation (for example the words Message and apostle are not there).
Furthermore there is no Quran/Kitaab mentioned but QAWL (6940).
Furthermore there is no Mohammed or what ever name mentioned.
Furthermore it is not said what kind of creature.

Only thing we know is The speech (qawl) is from a honorable messenger (rasulin karimin).
If you want to make "qawl"=Quran and "honorable messenger" = Muhammed, then go ahead, just now that that is not what The Quran says. The Quran is exact in its wording, what you invent with it is not part of The Quran, but your own fantasy.

Instead of telling me what I think you should look and try and understand the question. I asked why not provide 1 book, with an identical contents, just in the reader's language.

hypno if I am not wrong you said 7 billion books. let me recheck...
yup you said 7 billion books.

It's content is for every one different because we are all different.
The content of the Quran is in the language of your heart/mind. The text is in arabic (the language) but it's content is not.
If you think an arab can understand the language of The Quran better then someone who doesn't speak a word arabic because of the language then you are totally wrong.

I asked WHY it was sent via a messenger and why not use alternatives. Stating what I know does not really help.

What alternative??? Who said I like your alternative? Why yours and not mine?
How we have it that is it. You can also complain why we are made from flesh and blood why not iron. But I am sure if there is a God and He choose to do it in the way He did it, then I am sure He knows better then you and me how to do it, no?

And if my answer didn't satisfy you then you have to ask Him why He did it in the way He did it. I am sure if you believe in Him He wil tell you why. He always answers my questions.

I read this on a lot of Muslim sites

I see.

And Mecca was just an example of a place considered holy. So, let me reword my question to make it more precise
Why not set the tablets, the originals, where humans will have access to them forever?

here you are
http//www.searchtruth.com/quran_reading/quran.html?page=1&page_size=1&page_style=1
whenever you have internet u can acces it. And I recommend also to buy a paper copy for the moments you have no internet.

So you don't know.

I don't understand. I thought I was clear.

Yes.

No.

The Koran
2142ff The fools among the people will say "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say To Allah belong both east and West He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful. We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do. Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

can you mark for me in RED please where you see the world "prayer", thanks.

Re alcohol
Also the Koran
2219 In both there is great sin, and some benefits for people.
443 Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken
590 Wine, gambling, altars and divining arrows are filth, made up by Satan. Therefore, refrain from it, so that you may be successful.

O please, not this again.

Again you are telling what is and not why. Your statements are true and common sense. But there are 29 single letter "verses" which nobody understands or ever will.

red you are right. my fault. Normally I find why questions very hard to answer. I mean questions why did God not give us wings or 6 eyes. But I think I can answer your why question.
The why is because we are not ready for everything. The Quran will be revealed to us bit by bit, because we are not ready for the things we don't understand now.

green really? Who said so?

Again you don't understand the question and yet see fit to go all haughty. Why? I am human. I am not perfect. I am asking for help.
No, the Koran does not explain why it was 200,000 years after humans existed. It just says why it was revealed, not why it was revealed 200,000 years too late.

did you read what I wrote or not? If you understod what I said then you would have the answer for your why.
hint first part of chapter 2

And no, I do not consider them genius anything. If I were a genius I would not be asking these simple questions, would I?
Now can you answer something or not?

it's the way how you ask them, not the questions.

Why not take a closer look at the question?

If I knew the answer in advance I would not ask it, would I?
If I look at my questions, though, what was a question not regarding the Koran?

you should take a closer look at the answers.
yes your question where regarding The Quran but you state "facts" in your questions which are not from The Quran, thus in here (this forum) they make no sense.

I said this is what I understand. I took this understanding from the Koran, where it says in
297 Say Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe

Gabriel is an angel hmm
from where did you get this? btw if you just looked a bit further then you would have known that he is not.

I asked this question as I was not aware that I seem to know the Koran better than you do and have to provide proof for all my statements when they come from the Koran. I am sorry, I admit I missed this option and will try to follow your advice.

)

And the answer is.....???

the reason I did not answer is because

I am still not 100% confident with my understanding, so till it's not 100% clear to me, I can't answer yet.
You can try to research this yourself, I think you will learn more from this then from anyone else.
I am lazy
I find it difficult to express myself in english.

I deleted my reply because you are getting simply childish and unprofessional. I will not go there.
No, you did not answer the question, because you still don't bother reading it.

RED I wonder what you deleted as I only said something similair to what you said in the red )
Anyway sorry for my rude language.

BLUE And now?

Salaam,
Bender

ps I appreciate it that you took time to find the verses from The Quran to support your claims handshake

StopS

I am not sure who the transator is, but this is a horrible translation (for example the words Message and apostle are not there).
Furthermore there is no Quran/Kitaab mentioned but QAWL (6940).
Furthermore there is no Mohammed or what ever name mentioned.
Furthermore it is not said what kind of creature.

Only thing we know is The speech (qawl) is from a honorable messenger (rasulin karimin).
If you want to make "qawl"=Quran and "honorable messenger" = Muhammed, then go ahead, just now that that is not what The Quran says. The Quran is exact in its wording, what you invent with it is not part of The Quran, but your own fantasy.

So according to you Muhammad was not the recipient of the initial Koran? I invented something? If I quote a translation it does not mean I am inventing this. Please don't spread lies about me, ok?

hypno if I am not wrong you said 7 billion books. let me recheck... yup you said 7 billion books.

It's content is for every one different because we are all different.
The content of the Quran is in the language of your heart/mind. The text is in arabic (the language) but it's content is not.
If you think an arab can understand the language of The Quran better then someone who doesn't speak a word arabic because of the language then you are totally wrong.
What alternative??? Who said I like your alternative? Why yours and not mine?
How we have it that is it. You can also complain why we are made from flesh and blood why not iron. But I am sure if there is a God and He choose to do it in the way He did it, then I am sure He knows better then you and me how to do it, no?

And if my answer didn't satisfy you then you have to ask Him why He did it in the way He did it. I am sure if you believe in Him He wil tell you why. He always answers my questions.

You are misrepresenting what I am saying again. If you can't understand a question or a statement, why don't you ask? Especially if I have corrected you before.
I must be different from you. My heart does not speak any language. And I need to understand the language before I understand what is written in that language.

The alternatives I have specified I don't know how many times. I am not complaining, I am asking. The little squiggly things at the end of my sentences denote a question, not a statement and not a complaint.

here you are
http//www.searchtruth.com/quran_reading/quran.html?page=1&page_size=1&page_style=1
whenever you have internet u can acces it. And I recommend also to buy a paper copy for the moments you have no internet.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here. The link you provide shows me a human made computer generated image of something. Do you know the difference between an original and a digital copy in the form of a photo? http//foucault.info/documents/foucault.thisIsNotaPipe.en.html

I asked
Why not set the tablets, the originals, where humans will have access to them forever?

I don't understand. I thought I was clear.

Shows how wrong you can be.

Not sure what you mean. You want the text/message of The Quran coded in your brains or what? Yes.
No.

Oh boy, someone give me patience.....

can you mark for me in RED please where you see the world "prayer", thanks.

Are you talking about the qibla or the alcohol? I will assume you are referring to the prayer-direction. If I am wrong, please correct me.

The answer to the problem is found on the pages of free-minds.org. Somehow, I expected you to know the pages http//www.free-minds.org/pilgrimage-lost-legacy-abraham

The mystery further deepens when we look to Islamic history itself and the claim that they (the Muslims) used to assemble towards Jerusalem for a number of years and then the focal point (Qibla) was changed to Mecca. Until today, the Muslims refer to Jerusalem as the ?first of the two Qiblas? (Uwla Al-Qiblatain).

So if you are not so narrow minded, you can substitute pray towards with assemble towards.

red you are right. my fault. Normally I find why questions very hard to answer. I mean questions why did God not give us wings or 6 eyes. But I think I can answer your why question.
The why is because we are not ready for everything. The Quran will be revealed to us bit by bit, because we are not ready for the things we don't understand now.

green really? Who said so?

Oooh, there is a mystery. And will my head explode if I learn something too soon? Oh please, can you can the juvenile approach?

did you read what I wrote or not? If you understod what I said then you would have the answer for your why.
hint first part of chapter 2

So you have no clue.

it's the way how you ask them, not the questions.

Ah, it's the way I put one word behind the other. Truly a revelation!

you should take a closer look at the answers.
yes your question where regarding The Quran but you state "facts" in your questions which are not from The Quran, thus in here (this forum) they make no sense.

Gabriel is an angel hmm
from where did you get this? btw if you just looked a bit further then you would have known that he is not.
)

the reason I did not answer is because

I am still not 100% confident with my understanding, so till it's not 100% clear to me, I can't answer yet.
You can try to research this yourself, I think you will learn more from this then from anyone else.
I am lazy
I find it difficult to express myself in english.

RED I wonder what you deleted as I only said something similair to what you said in the red )
Anyway sorry for my rude language.

BLUE And now?

Salaam,
Bender

ps I appreciate it that you took time to find the verses from The Quran to support your claims handshake

I give up. This is simply too difficult to repeat and explain the same thing over and over.

Thank you for trying.

Bender

So according to you Muhammad was not the recipient of the initial Koran? I invented something? If I quote a translation it does not mean I am inventing this. Please don't spread lies about me, ok?

Salaam,

Is this from you or from a translator
This to me says one person, Muhammad received the contents and spread it to his followers.
if this is from the the translator then I am sorry to spread lies about you.

You are misrepresenting what I am saying again. If you can't understand a question or a statement, why don't you ask? Especially if I have corrected you before.
I must be different from you. My heart does not speak any language. And I need to understand the language before I understand what is written in that language.

The alternatives I have specified I don't know how many times. I am not complaining, I am asking. The little squiggly things at the end of my sentences denote a question, not a statement and not a complaint.

I do not misinterpret what you are saying, you just don't understand what I am saying.
And I knew that you would not understand )

red I know you were asking, but there is a complaining in your questions. You are not satisfied how it is now, so you ask absurd questions about how you think it should have been with false statements in your questions and then ask why it did not go the way you wanted it to be.

What is the purpose of your questions? How we have it now that's it, so what is it exactly that you want to know?

And thank you very much for correcting me over and over again I am now a lot wiser then before our conversation, thank you handshake

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here. The link you provide shows me a human made computer generated image of something. Do you know the difference between an original and a digital copy in the form of a photo? http//foucault.info/documents/foucault.thisIsNotaPipe.en.html

yes
It seems you have absolutely no clue, you only don't know it.
Do you know what "Kitaab" and "Quran" means? If you don't, please study this first.
There are online sites with a Quran with nice search functions, type in the words and check the verses where those words are used.
After you have studied this then you can show me again a nice picture of a pipe.

I asked
Why not set the tablets, the originals, where humans will have access to them forever?

What orginal tablets are you talking about? Before you answer please recheck your sources, saves me time to correct you.

Shows how wrong you can be.

Whatever makes you happy.

It seems you are totally lost, you have absolutely no clue, only you don't know this.
I suggest that you take some time to study, it will God willing make you understand my answer.
by study I mean study The Quran not islam websites/Ibn Kathir/freeminds articles etc.

Oh boy, someone give me patience.....

What did I do wrong )

Are you talking about the qibla or the alcohol? I will assume you are referring to the prayer-direction. If I am wrong, please correct me.

The answer to the problem is found on the pages of free-minds.org. Somehow, I expected you to know the pages http//www.free-minds.org/pilgrimage-lost-legacy-abraham

The mystery further deepens when we look to Islamic history itself and the claim that they (the Muslims) used to assemble towards Jerusalem for a number of years and then the focal point (Qibla) was changed to Mecca. Until today, the Muslims refer to Jerusalem as the ?first of the two Qiblas? (Uwla Al-Qiblatain).

You still don't get it. A freeminds article is not The Quran. There is no mention of Jerusalem, there is no mention of Mecca, there is no mention of prayer.

So if you are not so narrow minded, you can substitute pray towards with assemble towards.

Was it changed? before you answer please recheck the verses, it will save me from correcting you again.

Oooh, there is a mystery. And will my head explode if I learn something too soon? Oh please, can you can the juvenile approach?

No your head will not explode, but your head/heart will not accept. It's to much for you to handle. And you are proving it right now, but you don't notice this. But God willing you will understand this some time later.

So you have no clue.

If I direct you to the place where you can find your answer does it means I have no clue hmm

Ah, it's the way I put one word behind the other. Truly a revelation!

yup yes
I am glad I learned you something new )

I give up. This is simply too difficult to repeat and explain the same thing over and over.

Thank you for trying.

You are welcome handshake

next time I will try to let you understand that 2+2=5
I hope I will have patience with you and I hope I will be able to repeat my claim over and over again again till you understand it.

Salaam and take care,
Bender

ps from the way you put one word behind the other I understand that you got a little bit to emotional.
Chill, there is no need to get emotional, we are only discussing.

StopS

Is this from you or from a translator
This to me says one person, Muhammad received the contents and spread it to his followers.
if this is from the the translator then I am sorry to spread lies about you.

Why does it have to be so complicated?

What was the name of the human being who received the Koran contents sentence by sentence? What I understand Muhammad.
Who told other humans about this? What I understand Muhammad.
In other words who spread the Koran to other people?

Do you have a different understanding how the Koran started on Earth? Via UPS maybe?

I do not misinterpret what you are saying, you just don't understand what I am saying.
And I knew that you would not understand )

red I know you were asking, but there is a complaining in your questions. You are not satisfied how it is now, so you ask absurd questions about how you think it should have been with false statements in your questions and then ask why it did not go the way you wanted it to be.

What is the purpose of your questions? How we have it now that's it, so what is it exactly that you want to know?

And thank you very much for correcting me over and over again I am now a lot wiser then before our conversation, thank you handshake

What is the title of this thread and the topic at hand?
THAT is what I am asking.

I am asking a question about the process and you are answering something about the contents. What about this is not misrepresentation? If I tell you something is wrong with your answer and your understanding, why don't you go "hold on, maybe I should ask whether I am understanding the question the right way"?

It seems you have absolutely no clue, you only don't know it.
Do you know what "Kitaab" and "Quran" means? If you don't, please study this first.
There are online sites with a Quran with nice search functions, type in the words and check the verses where those words are used.
After you have studied this then you can show me again a nice picture of a pipe.

My goodness, you really have no idea what I am talking about, what I am asking and still think you can provide an answer.

What orginal tablets are you talking about? Before you answer please recheck your sources, saves me time to correct you.

7145 And We wrote for him on the tablets the lesson to be drawn from all things and the explanation for all things

I don't even know why I tried to explain all this again, when I know you will not be able to comprehend it, so I'll just drop it - again.

mmkhan

Why does it have to be so complicated?

What was the name of the human being who received the Koran contents sentence by sentence? What I understand Muhammad.
Who told other humans about this? What I understand Muhammad.
In other words who spread the Koran to other people?

Salaam StopS,

Just to stop complications are we allowed to conclude anything? hmm I don't think so.

Brother, how do you concluded the answers you gave above ? I mean, any of the aayaats of alQuraan supports your conclusion? Please share those aayaats with me so that it may help me understand better.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan

Bender

Why does it have to be so complicated?

What was the name of the human being who received the Koran contents sentence by sentence? What I understand Muhammad.
Who told other humans about this? What I understand Muhammad.
In other words who spread the Koran to other people?

Salaam,

You bring in stuff into the discussion which I can't find back in The Quran and you want to discuss it as it is from The Quran. So who is the one who is making things complicated?

From where did you learn this? Can you please give me supporting verses from The Quran please. (Bukhari or Ibn Kathir or Freeminds articles or wikipedia etc etc etc is NOT The Quran.
From where did you learn this? Can you please give me supporting verses from The Quran please. (Bukhari or Ibn Kathir or Freeminds articles or wikipedia etc etc etc is NOT The Quran.
I don't know, I can't find a clear answer from The verses of The Quran. If you can then please share it with us.

Do you have a different understanding how the Koran started on Earth? Via UPS maybe?

Sure I have an understanding but I am not sure about it.

red you have great sense of humor

What is the title of this thread and the topic at hand?
THAT is what I am asking.

You forgot your own questions in your first post in this topic???

I am asking a question about the process and you are answering something about the contents. What about this is not misrepresentation? If I tell you something is wrong with your answer and your understanding, why don't you go "hold on, maybe I should ask whether I am understanding the question the right way"?

What I am trying to tell from the beginning but what you don't seem to understand is that your orginal questions DON'T make sense.

In the mean time you are hopefully now a bit wiser then in your first post in this topic. So I have a question for you now. If you had the knowledge you have now would you ask again exactly the same questions? If you don't remember your questions, here they are again

Why indeed was anything transmitted by a human, a single human?
Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?
Why not set the golden tablets, the originals, into the desert next to Mecca?
Why not transmit the contents telepathically so everyone understands it without having to read or rely on translations and error-prone interpretations by humans?
Why not hard-wire it into humans like every human understand a smile?
Why indeed first dictate a book which was written trillions of years earlier commanding a praying direction or allowing alcohol and only when this proves to be a problem change the contents?
Why include parts which humans don't understand?
Why create humans 200,000 years ago and only start supplying guidance very recently?

My goodness, you really have no idea what I am talking about, what I am asking and still think you can provide an answer.
7145 And We wrote for him on the tablets the lesson to be drawn from all things and the explanation for all things

Ah I see, you are talking about the tablets of Musa (Moses). I thought we were discussing The Quran, unless ofcourse you think that The Tablets of Musa is The Quran. So please clarify, that makes it easier for discussion.

I don't even know why I tried to explain all this again, when I know you will not be able to comprehend it, so I'll just drop it - again.

The reason is because you claimed things in your questions. If I ask "why is the water on Mars always 30 degrees", then I first have to proof that there is water on Mars and if there is water that it's always 30 degrees, otherwise I did not ask a legitimate question.
So before you can't proof your claims in your questions, your questions don't make sense. I hope you understand this, and I hope that next time you will recheck your questions before you ask.

Salaam,
Bender

Bender

Salaam StopS,

Just to stop complications are we allowed to conclude anything? hmm I don't think so.

Brother, how do you concluded the answers you gave above ? I mean, any of the aayaats of alQuraan supports your conclusion? Please share those aayaats with me so that it may help me understand better.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan

Salaam bro,

I always find it funny that people who say they don't believe in Allah use hadiths as their evidence to support their claims, but only those hadiths they need at the time.

One time on a forum, there was a woman who was so angry that Mohammed married a little girl. So I asked her from where she got this information. She proudly showed me some sahih hadiths. When I said to her that if she believed Mohammed married a little girl she also had to believe that Mohammed was a messenger of God, as I showed her from the same source a hadith where it says Mohammed was a messenger of God. But she refused to believe in that hadith, she only wanted to believe in little girl marriage hadiths hmm

Salaam,
Bender

StopS

Brother, how do you concluded the answers you gave above ? I mean, any of the aayaats of alQuraan supports your conclusion?

It is my understanding and what I am asking whether I am right.
If I am right, I am sure you can provide equivalent sentences from the Koran - and if I am wrong also, I would imagine. I am sure you know the Koran better than me.

mmkhan

It is my understanding and what I am asking whether I am right.
If I am right, I am sure you can provide equivalent sentences from the Koran - and if I am wrong also, I would imagine. I am sure you know the Koran better than me.

As per my knowledge I don't find your conclusions right, because it is not supported by alQuraan.

May God bless you,
mmKhan

StopS

Salaam,

You bring in stuff into the discussion which I can't find back in The Quran and you want to discuss it as it is from The Quran. So who is the one who is making things complicated?

From where did you learn this? Can you please give me supporting verses from The Quran please. (Bukhari or Ibn Kathir or Freeminds articles or wikipedia etc etc etc is NOT The Quran.
From where did you learn this? Can you please give me supporting verses from The Quran please. (Bukhari or Ibn Kathir or Freeminds articles or wikipedia etc etc etc is NOT The Quran.
I don't know, I can't find a clear answer from The verses of The Quran. If you can then please share it with us.
Sure I have an understanding but I am not sure about it.

I am asking a question. If you know the answer, why not simply tell me, instead of making thus unnecessarily complicated by copy/pasting something here and only then do you clarify the situation?
I read 24, which says And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee... or 5310 And he revealed to His Servant what he revealed.
Then I see 3144 Muhammad is but a messenger
and I add this together to maybe say Muhammad is the prophet of Allah and he is the one who received the Koran via Gabriel.

You have "an understanding" but it's a secret?

What I am trying to tell from the beginning but what you don't seem to understand is that your orginal questions DON'T make sense.

In the mean time you are hopefully now a bit wiser then in your first post in this topic. So I have a question for you now. If you had the knowledge you have now would you ask again exactly the same questions? If you don't remember your questions, here they are again

Why indeed was anything transmitted by a human, a single human?
Why not "send down" 7 billion books, which are capable of automatically showing the text the reader understands, in his native language?
Why not set the golden tablets, the originals, into the desert next to Mecca?
Why not transmit the contents telepathically so everyone understands it without having to read or rely on translations and error-prone interpretations by humans?
Why not hard-wire it into humans like every human understand a smile?
Why indeed first dictate a book which was written trillions of years earlier commanding a praying direction or allowing alcohol and only when this proves to be a problem change the contents?
Why include parts which humans don't understand?
Why create humans 200,000 years ago and only start supplying guidance very recently?

Ah I see, you are talking about the tablets of Musa (Moses). I thought we were discussing The Quran, unless ofcourse you think that The Tablets of Musa is The Quran. So please clarify, that makes it easier for discussion.
The reason is because you claimed things in your questions. If I ask "why is the water on Mars always 30 degrees", then I first have to proof that there is water on Mars and if there is water that it's always 30 degrees, otherwise I did not ask a legitimate question.
So before you can't proof your claims in your questions, your questions don't make sense. I hope you understand this, and I hope that next time you will recheck your questions before you ask.

Salaam,
Bender

No, we are NOT talking about Moses. At least I am not. I would imagine 251 ff mentions Moses, as do ~130 others. If there is no original of the Koran, then why not say so?

Your analogy is invalid. You are assuming Mars exists. If you can manage to let go of all preconceptions you will understand my questions.
If there are no originals for the Koran then I have to retract my3rd question, not because it is nonsensical, but because I have asked it due to a misconception of what you, a Muslim, believe as opposed to what another person, a Muslim, told me.

Having said that what is your definition of a Muslim? It could be that I have another generalisation and misconception there as well.

StopS

As per my knowledge I don't find your conclusions right, because it is not supported by alQuraan.

May God bless you,
mmKhan

Thank you for your opinion.

Now, what according to you, led to the existence of the Koran? Do you have an opinion on the process how the Koran came about and what led to the book we know as the Koran today?
Thanks.

mmkhan

Thank you for your opinion.

You are welcome bro.

Oh! I didn't know that you are not a Muslim, I thought otherwise, sorry.

Now, what according to you, led to the existence of the Koran?

alQuraan is sent down to guide all humans as per 2185

Do you have an opinion on the process how the Koran came about and what led to the book we know as the Koran today?
Thanks.

My personal opinion on process of sending down the alQuraan is same as it was given to Musa, i.e., all together written on tablets as per 7144-145. May be this book that we know as alQuraan was given to Musa, not sure though.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan

StopS

You are welcome bro.

Oh! I didn't know that you are not a Muslim, I thought otherwise, sorry.

No, not at all, maybe I should have made it more clear.

alQuraan is sent down to guide all humans as per 2185
My personal opinion on process of sending down the alQuraan is same as it was given to Musa, i.e., all together written on tablets as per 7144-145. May be this book that we know as alQuraan was given to Musa, not sure though.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan

Hey, interesting idea! I have honestly never thought of that option.

Is this the possible process Moses is given the texts, which unfortunately have not survived, and led to the 2 Bibles and then, finally, to the Koran?
But who collected the contents?

mmkhan

No, not at all, maybe I should have made it more clear.

You are a Muslim? Oh! I am sorry, please forgive me.

Hey, interesting idea! I have honestly never thought of that option.

Is this the possible process Moses is given the texts, which unfortunately have not survived, and led to the 2 Bibles and then, finally, to the Koran?
But who collected the contents?

To know why I said that, please check this and this carefully. Hope this may help you, inshaAllah.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan

StopS

You are a Muslim? Oh! I am sorry, please forgive me.

Ooops, hahaha, what a mess. My reaction of "not at all" was directed at your apology. Let me be precise I am non-Muslim.

To know why I said that, please check this and this carefully. Hope this may help you, inshaAllah.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan

Wow! I find that highly potent and it could potentially change the entire concept of the perception of Islam. But I must admit that I am starting to enjoy the unvarying, focused and total commitment to a Koran only approach.
I admit I have not thought this through, so I am as yet unable to properly slot this idea into history and the grand picture, but I'll get the hang of it.
Thank you for your very supportive and understanding help.