Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?

Bender

Brother Bender, what everyone today thinks is Quran, is its translation. Which is not, what the real text is. The real text above this translation is what I am trying to understand and translate, irrespective of what translation or tradition has told us.

Do you know basics of language? If not and you really want to understand the text in question. My humble suggestion would be to please try to learn the language. If you need help. I shall be happy to lend a hand as much as I can.Badar

Salaam brother,

RED Do you mean the arabic text of The Book is also a translation? If so, then please give a verse for this understanding to support your claim.

BLUE nope I only now how to read a little bit.

GREEN Thank you for your offer, inshaAllah I will accept it and inshaAllah I will learn from you, but on condition that you support every claim of yours with ONLY examples from The Quran.

First I want to learn why you splitted the word ALLAH in those 3 part.
5922 clearly disapproves for me your understanding as they are used in the same sentence.
We can create a seperate topic for this as this is way off-topic.

Salaam,
Bender

bkanwar2

Salaam brother,
First I want to learn why you splitted the word ALLAH in those 3 part.
5922 clearly disapproves for me your understanding as they are used in the same sentence.
We can create a seperate topic for this as this is way off-topic.

Salaam,
Bender

Please read my write up at the bottom. You will find your answer. It written in simple English with readers in mind who are not familiar with the language. If you still have questions about it. Please feel free to ask.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599853.50

bkanwar2

By the way, the write up/break down of so to called word/noun, Allah, has been on this forum and several others for over 2 years. I hate to use word challenge, but it is like a linguistic challenge from Quran and its language. There has been no objection to it except for one that is already addressed in this link; citing its use, both in language and current translation of Quran, as well, from books of the language with due references.

Regards

mirjamnur

Salam bkanwar

i read the article but i have a question. the article states

Let us turn to Qur'an itself for evidence. In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word containing a definite article ?Al? . Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition. Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.

21 Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.
47 and 432, is the word same concept.

but lil- muttaqin ( li+al+ muttaqin) and lil-rigal (li+al+rigal) is not the same as al mutaqin and al rigal. the second (al rigal) yes, is lam schamseia it becomes arrigal- for the idhram. but the word in the Quran is not ALILRIGAL is lil rigal (li+al+ rigal= lialrigal what is impossible to pronouncing so lilrigal 'for' the men as in 2.1 'for' the muttagin

i don't know what has this to do with Al + ilah= Allah? alilah? here we have AL ILAHA not LILAHA confused

so please you can explain??
thank you and Salam

bkanwar2

Salam bkanwar

i read the article but i have a question. the article states

Let us turn to Qur'an itself for evidence. In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word containing a definite article ?Al? . Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition. Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.

21 Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.
47 and 432, is the word same concept.

but lil- muttaqin ( li+al+ muttaqin) and lil-rigal (li+al+rigal) is not the same as al mutaqin and al rigal. the second (al rigal) yes, is lam schamseia it becomes arrigal- for the idhram. but the word in the Quran is not ALILRIGAL is lil rigal (li+al+ rigal= lialrigal what is impossible to pronouncing so lilrigal 'for' the men as in 2.1 'for' the muttagin

i don't know what has this to do with Al + ilah= Allah? alilah? here we have AL ILAHA not LILAHA confused

so please you can explain??
thank you and Salam

These two examples are given to high light the point, as well to differentiate the difference between two kinds of "Al" used in Quranic text. In both as well . The particle "Al" is different than used in word . In former two words, it is "Al" for making these words Marafa i.e, to make Nakra/common noun as definite/Marafa noun.

When the preposition "lee" is prefixed to words which are made definite due prefixing of particle "Al"; according to rule of the language "Alif/Hemza" of definite particle "Al" is dropped, whereas, "lam" is retained in the script. However, we find this not to be the case for word in the Quranic script. Therefore, "Al" in case of word Allah can not be the definite particle "Al"; as it completely disappears in the Quranic text, when particle "lee" is prefixed to it. This proves the point that it is a different particle not governed by rules of definite particle "Al"

Which leads to conclusion that other word similar to definite article "Al" is a contraction of . Since this contraction is different from the definite article "Al". Hence, rule governing definite particle "Al" of only dropping the "alif/Hemza" shall not apply. Therefore, whole of this contraction of word is dropped when preposition "lee" is added to "Allah" and it is written as , instead of two "Lams" at the beginning. Which should have been the case had this first "Al" would have been a definite particle "Al".

mirjamnur

Salam bkanwar

These two examples are given to high light the point, as well to differentiate the difference between two kinds of "Al" used in Quranic text. In both as well . The particle "Al" is different than used in word . In former two words, it is "Al" for making these words Marafa i.e, to make Nakra/common noun as definite/Marafa noun.

When the preposition "lee" is prefixed to words which are made definite due prefixing of particle "Al"; according to rule of the language "Alif/Hemza" of definite particle "Al" is dropped, whereas, "lam" is retained in the script. However, we find this not to be the case for word in the Quranic script. Therefore, "Al" in case of word Allah can not be the definite particle "Al"; as it completely disappears in the Quranic text, when particle "lee" is prefixed to it. This proves the point that it is a different particle not governed by rules of definite particle "Al"

Which leads to conclusion that other word similar to definite article "Al" is a contraction of . Since this contraction is different from the definite article "Al". Hence, rule governing definite particle "Al" of only dropping the "alif/Hemza" shall not apply. Therefore, whole of this contraction of word is dropped when preposition "lee" is added to "Allah" and it is written as , instead of two "Lams" at the beginning. Which should have been the case had this first "Al" would have been a definite particle "Al".

i start to see the picture --- ) but please can you give me more examples??

English is a foreign language for me as arabic too - for such linguistic explanations a hindrance if I do not exactly understand everything.
Sorry but I would like to understand it. Thank you.

in german "gutes Ding will Weile haben

peace

bkanwar2

Salam bkanwari start to see the picture --- ) but please can you give me more examples??

Please explain what examples or in which respect?

English is a foreign language for me as arabic too - for such linguistic explanations a hindrance if I do not exactly understand everything.
Sorry but I would like to understand it. Thank you.

We both are in the same boat, both of these languages are foreign for me as well. So do not worry. If one has a will the hurdles could be over come with efforts.

in german "gutes Ding will Weile haben

peace

Do you speak German? Is that your mother tongue? Man if you do, you can compliment lot of my efforts. There is so much work by German scholars in Classic Arabic language, which is still inaccessible to us none speakers of the language.

mirjamnur

Salam bkanwar2

Please explain what examples or in which respect?
for the given explanation. there are examples in the Quran?? As the example from Allah- i need to SEE and to REFLECT about other examples. thanks ;D

We both are in the same boat, both of these languages are foreign for me as well. So do not worry. If one has a will the hurdles could be over come with efforts.

Do you speak German? Is that your mother tongue? Man if you do, you can compliment lot of my efforts. There is so much work by German scholars in Classic Arabic language, which is still inaccessible to us none speakers of the language.

Yes it's my mother tongue- as Swiss German also If i can help anything, let me know!
peace - and i;m still waiting for your post (ALM- ALMR- SAD_ HM- etc etc........)
Thank you and peace peace

Mazhar

Let us turn to Qur'an itself for evidence. In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word containing a definite article ?Al? . Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition. Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.

21 Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.
47 and 432, is the word same concept.

Salamun alaiki,

In the second case Prep does not join with L but with R in pronunciation. First example has Jezm on Lam and second has no jezm over it. It is about division of alphabets what are termed Sun and Moon letters.

"Al" is used to put the word in determinate state. In Allah and ArRehman it is not article but integral part of the Names.

You can read a good and comprehensive article on this Article in wikipedia
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-

bkanwar2

Salam bkanwar2
Yes it's my mother tongue- as Swiss German also If i can help anything, let me know!
peace - and i;m still waiting for your post (ALM- ALMR- SAD_ HM- etc etc........)
Thank you and peace peace

The German, language should be great asset for you. Most initial work of translation of Arabic grammar was done into German. Even William Wright is mostly translated from Caspari's work into English. You could study and help out.

I am at a place where I do not have access to written Quran. Online versions leave out some marks. For example initially, I missed Shadda over Miim in Alif Lam Miim. It was due to pointing out of a reader that I looked it up in written book version. I shall be indebted to him for rest of the life as it confirmed this to be 9th form of verb.

If you like please start the thread of other Huroof e Muqtaat as written in print version. I will keep adding my 2 cents as time will permit. I am going back today where I shall be very busy and find little time for any other activity, besides work.