Story of Solomon , Queen of Saba and Jinns

farida

I am on the verge of abandoning the Qur'an altogether because of the translations, which, the more time passes, the more I realize I cannot trust them, and on the other hand I have no intention whatsoever to learn Arabic language!

Then it's your loss, you can not say that you were not given a chance sun

noshirk

Salam and Thank you Man of Faith

Quran is like Science and science, wich is the other block of ayats of God, go ahead by reason, new hypothesis and new theories.
at each time, a new interpretation can fit better than the older one.

We don't have to be afraid to make errors.
If we are afraid, we will stay for ever at the stage of old beliefs worshipping our ancestors through what they said
That is shirk and totally forbidden.

God knows if we are sincere or not and it is impossible for us to harm him.
we are thus free to think as long we are sincere.
All what we call truth is a temporary truth until we find a better explanation or a better theory.

Peace

herbman

Salam and Peace,

thanks for this great article, there was also an article from RS_Aitkinen that can complete yours or visversa

I took it from this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600414.0

The story of Solomon in 2715-44 proves that "islam" means peacemaking and "muslim" means peacemaker. There are 4 chronological events that take place

Solomon asks the leader of Sheba to make her people peacemakers.
She sends him a gift but does not commit to lasting peace, or even mention peace in correspondence.
Solomon threatens her.
In the end, she finally makes peace. Her peace happens to be for the god, which is good but not always the case (4917 above).

There are important details in between, but I wish to focus on the part about peacemakers ("muslimun&quot.

...

2729-33, 35-37 and 44
She said, "O you chiefs, I received an honorable letter. It is from Solomon and it is in the name of the god, the almighty, the merciful. It says 'Do not rise against me, and come to me as peacemakers'."

She said, "O you chiefs, advise concerning my command. I will not make a command until you testify."

They said, "We have strength and we have mighty power. The command is yours so see what you will command."...

(She said,) "I am sending them a gift; I will see what the messengers return with."

So, when it came to Solomon he said, "Do you reinforce me with wealth? What the god has given me is better than what he has given you. No, it is you who are happy with your gift. Return to them; we will come to them with soldiers/forces they cannot face. We will evict them humiliated, feeble."...

She said, "Lord, I have wronged myself, and I make peace with Solomon for the god, lord of the worlds."

If we apply the sectarian view of surrendering/submitting to the god, the sequence would be

Solomon asks the leader of Sheba to make her people surrender/submit to the god.
She sends him a gift but does not commit to surrendering/submitting to the god.
Solomon threatens her.

Why would Solomon threaten her with attack if she was peaceful? He wouldn't. He threatened her because she refused peace, and he was a peacemaker.

4816 Say to the nomads who stayed behind, "You will be called on to fight a people who have mighty power unless they make peace."

Sectarian view

"You will be called on to fight a people who have mighty power unless they surrender/submit to the god."

Why would we be fighting people to turn them to the god? We wouldn't. We fight only in self defense until peace is made, and we are peacemakers. Even captives of war must be freed and treaties must be established. The great reading is a book of peace.

PEACE NOW / SALAM AL-AN /

Salam = Peace
Islam = Peacemaking

This is my understanding, may the god improve it.

noshirk

Thank you @noshirk for this excellent and beautiful post, and good work in demystifying the Qur'an!

O, if only we could have this kind of translation of the whole Qur'an! Alas!

It would make much more sense...

I am on the verge of abandoning the Qur'an altogether because of the translations, which, the more time passes, the more I realize I cannot trust them, and on the other hand I have no intention whatsoever to learn Arabic language!

Salaam God submitter
you cannot know the time i spent trying to understand some aspects of torah or trying to read about zoroastrism.
i feel the same sensation as you also when reading books of history without knowing what is true and what is false.

many people knows arabic and cannot understand story of solomon as Dukhani did.
People who don't knows arabic can always help contributing with their knowledge or pointing inconsistencies.

Monotheistic traduction is a good traduction but is incomplete.
but never forget this about quran

3-7 He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" only people with brain will remember that.

so abandoning Quran, whose verses are in majority clears, only because some verses are not clear is not a good argument.

Truth is less important than beeing on the true path. Total truth is only for God.

Peace

good_logic

Bonjour noshirk.

Merci.

Quel est l origine de cette draduction?

Je veux bien lire , je suis curieux.

Pouvez vous me donner l adresse/link, si c est possible.

Merci d avance.

Peace.

noshirk

Bonjour noshirk.

Merci.

Quel est l origine de cette draduction?

Je veux bien lire , je suis curieux.

Pouvez vous me donner l adresse/link, si c est possible.

Merci d avance.

Peace.

Bonjour Good Logic
trouv? ici
http//nawaat.org/portail/2012/12/05/ibadat-el-chouyoukhs-6-anges-jinns-demons-et-satan/
Cette traduction est la r?sultante d'une grande r?flexion sur les Jinns, Satan etc...
Jinn Dukhani (il semble d?sormais refuser le titre de Cheikh) est arriv? au huiti?me ?pisode.

Son style est tr?s particulier mais il ne faut pas oublier qu'il "pr?che" sur un site non religieux.

Cordialement

good_logic

Peace noshirk.

L adresse que tu mas donner arrive ici a " Free minds.org"?

Peut etre il y a une faute.

Voulez vous essayer une deixieme fois c il vous plait?

Merci beaucoup.

Peace.

farida

salaam

Just to remind you; this is Free Mind and the language for all in this section is English, so that despite cold weather and snow we can still see the sun

peace

noshirk

Bonjour good logic (Salaam Farida)

copie et colle ce lien (paste and copy this link);
http//nawaat.org/portail/2012/12/05/ibadat-el-chouyoukhs-6-anges-jinns-demons-et-satan/

?a marches (it works).

je ne sais pas pourquoi nawaat.org est remplac? par free-minds.org dans le hyperlien.
(i don't know why nawaat.org is replaced by free-minds.org in the hypertext).

?a doit encore ?tre un coup des Jinns. Qu'est ce qu'ils sont farceurs !
(it must be a farce from Jinns. What jokers they are!)

cordialement (friendly)

farida

Bonjour good logic (Salaam Farida)

copie et colle ce lien (paste and copy this link);
http//nawaat.org/portail/2012/12/05/ibadat-el-chouyoukhs-6-anges-jinns-demons-et-satan/

?a marches (it works).

je ne sais pas pourquoi nawaat.org est remplac? par free-minds.org dans le hyperlien.
(i don't know why nawaat.org is replaced by free-minds.org in the hypertext).

?a doit encore ?tre un coup des Jinns. Qu'est ce qu'ils sont farceurs !
(it must be a farce from Jinns. What jokers they are!)

cordialement (friendly)

salaam et merci

Dit mois pourqois vous avez adoptee pour votre langue de communication ici, quand vous savez tres bien que le langue pour 'Free-Minds est strictement anglais? Vous pouvez toujours discutez en francais sous un autre detaille de Free-Minds.

peace

good_logic

Peace noshirk, Farida.

Thank you both.

C est fini maintenant!

I have got it.

Both the link and what Farida said.

Back to English now. Sorry!

Peace.

mmmm

Assalamu alaykum, thank you for the explanation but I still have to research it for myself, inshallah. We also have to be aware that we are limited in knowledge - we falsely assume that this is the peak of civilization and we put our own mind as a criterion and since it is limited we can easily fall into wrong conclusions.

I have recently read a book and this sentence stuck in my mind "One of the things that make life so miraculous is that you can understand it, know ?the truth,? and know that anything against the laws of nature (God?s law) are impossible. If miracles were possible, it would mean life is not understandable, that there is no truth of life. "

...so I started asking myself if all miracles mentioned in the Qur'an are actually physically explainable (to me the above sentence made sense especially since we know that God doesn't change his way according to the Qur'an 3362). There were some possible explanations for some of the stories except for the Solomon story and the Moses story I am still seeking the real meaning and explanation...alhamdulillah I came upon this post ) Do you have some explanation for the Moses and the splitting of the sea? Jazakumullah khayren.

Harun

Peace Bro noshirk (its irritating...plz tell either ur real or nick name)

I do agree with ur reasoning.

For a light side, I am a B.S. Undergraduate Freshman. As a matter of fact, I studied a course in my first sem on organismal biology. It concerned mainly about the ant and wasp community and their behaviour. We were also involved in fieldwork a bit. And we were asked to submit our analysis reports on ant behaviour observed, and my report started with "And the queen of the ants said "....."" from the quranic verse. I but think ants are capable enough of conversation.

I don't know it was becoz of this or my analysis, I got the highest grades in the whole batch....lololo

Now I feel happy and consider myself a maniac in the past, who used to justify the totally unscientific reasoning of Hadithic Interpretation and rationalize them using pseudoscience.lolololol....

Its a great blessing of the Lord.

Peace
Harun.

herbman

Assalamu alaykum, thank you for the explanation but I still have to research it for myself, inshallah. We also have to be aware that we are limited in knowledge - we falsely assume that this is the peak of civilization and we put our own mind as a criterion and since it is limited we can easily fall into wrong conclusions.

I have recently read a book and this sentence stuck in my mind "One of the things that make life so miraculous is that you can understand it, know ?the truth,? and know that anything against the laws of nature (God?s law) are impossible. If miracles were possible, it would mean life is not understandable, that there is no truth of life. "

...so I started asking myself if all miracles mentioned in the Qur'an are actually physically explainable (to me the above sentence made sense especially since we know that God doesn't change his way according to the Qur'an 3362). There were some possible explanations for some of the stories except for the Solomon story and the Moses story I am still seeking the real meaning and explanation...alhamdulillah I came upon this post Do you have some explanation for the Moses and the splitting of the sea? Jazakumullah khayren.

Salam,

this might help
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599235.0

Peace

noshirk

Assalamu alaykum, thank you for the explanation but I still have to research it for myself, inshallah. We also have to be aware that we are limited in knowledge - we falsely assume that this is the peak of civilization and we put our own mind as a criterion and since it is limited we can easily fall into wrong conclusions.

I have recently read a book and this sentence stuck in my mind "One of the things that make life so miraculous is that you can understand it, know ?the truth,? and know that anything against the laws of nature (God?s law) are impossible. If miracles were possible, it would mean life is not understandable, that there is no truth of life. "

...so I started asking myself if all miracles mentioned in the Qur'an are actually physically explainable (to me the above sentence made sense especially since we know that God doesn't change his way according to the Qur'an 3362). There were some possible explanations for some of the stories except for the Solomon story and the Moses story I am still seeking the real meaning and explanation...alhamdulillah I came upon this post ) Do you have some explanation for the Moses and the splitting of the sea? Jazakumullah khayren.

salaam
i have a response, but probably it is not THE response and more probably you will not accept it.

http//modernsurvivalblog.com/earthquakes/major-earthquake-swarm-off-yemen-trouble/
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604241.0

Poor Somalians. iI seems that one day, the will be no more africans.

peace

mirjamnur

Salam Noshirk
thanks for sharing this i feel inlighted ;D
i don't know, but for me is the language from the Quran many times as the language in my dreams- allegorical stories to ponder over and to learn so much... subhanAllah

and i'm very happy to found anybody who gave me a link in French - because i love this language and i don't like to forget it
salam and peace

noshirk

Peace Bro noshirk (its irritating...plz tell either ur real or nick name)

I do agree with ur reasoning.

For a light side, I am a B.S. Undergraduate Freshman. As a matter of fact, I studied a course in my first sem on organismal biology. It concerned mainly about the ant and wasp community and their behaviour. We were also involved in fieldwork a bit. And we were asked to submit our analysis reports on ant behaviour observed, and my report started with "And the queen of the ants said "....."" from the quranic verse. I but think ants are capable enough of conversation.

I don't know it was becoz of this or my analysis, I got the highest grades in the whole batch....lololo

Now I feel happy and consider myself a maniac in the past, who used to justify the totally unscientific reasoning of Hadithic Interpretation and rationalize them using pseudoscience.lolololol....

Its a great blessing of the Lord.

Peace
Harun.

Salaam

2718 Until they came to a valley of ants, a female ant said "O ants, enter your homes else you will be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they do not notice."

That is much more than a simple communication. The female ant seems to know who is salomon and salomon heard it.

Dear harun, many smart and educated people are lost people.
Hope that you will not pollute what God gave you with your own and others human inventions.
It took me much time to remove bullshits from my mind. I have not finished yet.
As i said to StopS, truth is not only rejecting lies but mainly reading truth. Many auto proclamed quranists forget to read the great readings. Many of them use quran as pretext to build their own religion from scratch.

Peace

Jandar

Two misunderstandings.
First one Jinn doesn?t mean ?amazing creature?. Jinn is simply human Imagination that gather in communities. I will not discuss this point in this thread.
What is meant in this verse is that Solomon can mobilize (jannada) human, their imagination and was given by God an access to all the knowledge gathered by humans in the religious fields (true and false beliefs).

Hi,

If you interpret Jinn as "HUMAN Imagination" then can you explain how this interpretation fits with (1526-27)?

Sahih International
And We did certainly create man out of clay from an altered black mud.
Muhsin Khan
And indeed, We created man from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.
Pickthall
Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered,
Yusuf Ali
We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
Shakir
And certainly We created man of clay that gives forth sound, of black mud fashioned in shape.
Dr. Ghali
And indeed We already created man of dry clay of mud modeled.

1527

Sahih International
And the jinn We created before from scorching fire.
Muhsin Khan
And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.
Pickthall
And the jinn did We create aforetime of essential fire.
Yusuf Ali
And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.
Shakir
And the jinn We created before, of intensely hot fire.
Dr. Ghali
And the jinn race We created earlier of the fire (The Arabic word samum is sometimes understood to be pestilential wind) of a pestilential (fire).

Does it make sense that Allah created "human imagination" (1527) BEFORE mankind itself (1526) and then called it 'Iblis'?

and how is "Human Imagination" made of smokless fire/scorching wind?

I don't see how your interpretation fits with the rest of the Quran about the Djinn.

Thanks.

noshirk

Salaam Jandar

Does it make sense that Allah created "human imagination" (1527) BEFORE mankind itself (1526) and then called it 'Iblis'?

It seems that it make sense

7172 And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs (I Think Jandar was there), their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of that

3372 We have offered the trust to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But man (I Think Jandar was there)accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.

8928 Return to your Lord happy and content (why Jandar have to return if he wasn't there).

4011 They will say Our Lord, You have made us die twice (did Jandar already died once ?), and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this state.

Really, it seems like there were a Jandar Jinn before Human Jandar.

and how is "Human Imagination" made of smokless fire/scorching wind?

1850 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Ibliss. He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord. Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy? Miserable for the transgress

so Ibliss was a malaika + Ibliss is Jinn and thanks to 1527 whe have
Jinn, malaika, chayatins and Ibliss made all from "fire."

On the other side, Science would be very interested if you know constitution and location of imagination and from where comes your new ideas.

In fact, i am even interested by chemical formula of fire. Please don't tell me that it is a chemical reaction.
What is fire ? I just to want to sell bottles containing fire.

I don't see how your interpretation fits with the rest of the Quran about the Djinn.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604954.0

In turn, now, my questions to Muhsin Khan,Pickthall,Yusuf Ali,Shakir and Dr. Ghali and all great scientific of islam.

6130 "O assembly of Jinn and mankind, did not messengers come to you from among you and tell to you My revelations......
Why Jinns Have to use our Quran ? Wouldn't be better if their messengers brought them a Quran from fire ? Sure they will better understand.
Who is adam of fire ? is there an abraham from fire ? A Jesus of fire ?

6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet ? mankind and Jinn devils ? to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

What is human Chaytan if chaytan is from fire ?
Is there a relation between fire (Jinn material) and Fire (Jehennem Material) ?
How to burn fire with fire ? Is there a special fire for fire ?

1145 ?Who whispers into the chests of the people.?
1146 ?From the Jinn and the people.?
really, these story of fire are very complicated. Who whipers in Chest of Jinns and why chaytan has to whisper to them throught ours Chests ?

726 ?And there were men from among mankind who used to seek help from the men among the Jinn, but they only helped increase them in sin.?.
Please, if i want to seek help from a Jinn, how can i do ?
I tried to contact them, i never succeded. Even Muslims Jinn of Fire don't want to respond !

How they pray? Is there a Bukhari of Fire ? How is their Kaaba of fire ? Have they knees for soujoud ? Have they Kaab in the feet for oudhou ? Do they eat an drink ? How is a sandwich of fire ? is there coffee from fire ? did they fast ? how and where they make Hajj ? What about tarawihs ? Did they have cars of fire or did they use camel or donkeys of fire ? Have they more scientific knowledge than us ? Why God tell them stories about our prophets and never tell us about stories of their prophets ? is there Jinn jews ? Zoraosaters Jinns ? Bouddhist Jinns ? Have they democraty ? Did they play soccer ?

Did they have Jinns scientists ? Did their scientists just copy our science ? How is their music ? Have they internet ? can they partcipate on our forum ?

And finally
how Quran can claim to be complete if he doesn't respond to all these questions ?
how Quran can claim to be complete for Jinns if he doesn't tell to Jinns anything about their history, science, messengers.... ?

I accept any coherent explanation. Even false. Just coherent.
If my questions seems stupid, perhaps it is not the fault of my questions ???
Cannot be more comprehensive

Peace

Jandar