Winter Ramadan Investigation (as outlined by The Natural Republic)
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So much for a clear and detailed book! rotfl
Ahhhh hmm
Perhaps we are not to look for concrete "scientific" data in the Qur'an, but just for metaphoric and moral ones instead?
Same as with the Torah, which WAS a statute book with laws for creating a Jewish State, with Moses trying to educate and civilize a freed mob of Egyptian slaves? Then, after few centuries, and since the demolition of that state, those laws and regulations are not valid any more, and are not binding for us at all?
In that sense "Natural Republic" is an attempt to create a statute for a Muslim State... But, is it practical to try to create a state based on a document circa 1400 years old?
Obviously, there must have been similar problems even back then, that's why they created Haddits and Sharia, like Jews creating the Talmud in a desperate attempt to bring back the "golden age" of prophetic "state leaders"...Or, the Qur'an can only be relevant for a few moral and spiritual teachings, with a few metaphorical stories that can be relevant to us nowadays? ???
As I read yesterday someone putting it quite nicely "Things start in mysticism and they end in politics"...
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So much for a clear and detailed book! rotfl
Or, it is supposed to tell us just some moral and spiritual things? With a few metaphorical stories that can be relevant to us nowadays? ???
Why can't the teachings within the Book be used within the culture of the people who read it, instead of striving to uphold another culture's traditions?
Just based on my own understanding as shown above, there is no need for a different calendar; what my nation - the United States of America - is using fits within the teachings of the Quran.
Something else to ponder.
Peace.
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And, with practical question, is the month of Ramadan changing and circulating every year, and do one fasts ten days or the whole month?
And, where are the CLEAR proofs for that in the Reading (the Qur'an)?
Ah, not to mention that it would be also nice to calculate when is the "special night" worth thousand nights...
Now, imagine someone who wants to embrace Islam, without any prejudices, not knowing Arabic, reading the translations and wanting to connect to God without Mullahs and Imams and no Haddits of course... confused
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However , I believe Jesus may have been born in Autumn? When the " dates ripen" according to Qoran?
1923
The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "(I am so ashamed I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten."1925-26
"If you shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will drop ripe dates for you.*"Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, `I have made a vow of silence, *; I am not talking today to anyone.' "
Peace.
Peace Good Logic,
Red Do you really think it is possible for a pregnant woman to shake the trunk of a date palm tree?
Blue Is it referring to dates?
I don't think so. I think it is referring to "Banana tree" which also comes under palm trees. Based on this, complete concept will change.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan.
You " think" or you are sure it is banana tree?
If you are sure with " evidence", I will stand corrected?
Thank you.
Peace.
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Peace be with you all.
And, with practical question, is the month of Ramadan changing and circulating every year, and do one fasts ten days or the whole month?
And, where are the CLEAR proofs for that in the Reading (the Qur'an)?
Ah, not to mention that it would be also nice to calculate when is the "special night" worth thousand nights...
Now, imagine someone who wants to embrace Islam, without any prejudices, not knowing Arabic, reading the translations and wanting to connect to God without Mullahs and Imams and no Haddits of course... confused
These are questions I have as well.
If 309 lunations (sanatin) = 25 years then...
...1 lunation (sanatin) = .08 years (amin).
1000 seasons (sanatin) x .08 years (amin) = 80 years (amin).So 1 lunation would equal 9 months? I don't understand? confused
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They ALL (&we all) have those questions unanswered @Scrappy-doo!
And, even in this thread, one can see how people AVOID answering directly, directing attention to bananas instead...
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They ALL (&we all) have those questions unanswered @Scrappy-doo!
And, even in this thread, one can see how people AVOID answering directly, directing attention to bananas instead...
LOL! I agree. rotfl
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So 1 lunation would equal 9 months? I don't understand? confused
The heliacal rising of Sothis returned to the same point in the calendar every 1460 years (a period called the Sothic cycle). The difference between a seasonal year and a civil year was therefore 365 days in 1460 years, or one day in four years.
Similarly, the Egyptians were aware that 309 lunations nearly equaled 9125 days, or 25 Egyptian years, which was later used in the construction of a secondary lunar calendar that did not depend on observations.Divide the civil year by the number of lunations to come up with the equation.
The number provided is a percentage.
1 lunation = .08 of a civil year x 12 months = .96 of a civil year.
12 lunations is 96% of a civil year.Peace.
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Peace mmkhan.
You " think" or you are sure it is banana tree?
If you are sure with " evidence", I will stand corrected?
Thank you.
Peace.
Peace brother,
I "think" it is banana tree, because there is NO evidence for dates tree either. And as I mentioned earlier, it is not possible to shake the trunk of dates tree. So, I think it is referring to banana tree because it is easy to shake its trunk and ripe bananas can fall easily.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan.
I take it we agree ,then.
I shall take dates and you take bananas, for now.
Thank you.
Peace.
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Peace brother,
I "think" it is banana tree, because there is NO evidence for dates tree either. And as I mentioned earlier, it is not possible to shake the trunk of dates tree. So, I think it is referring to banana tree because it is easy to shake its trunk and ripe bananas can fall easily.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhanhttp//www.dateland.com/Tutorial.html
"Around the beginning of August, the Medjool Dates are covered with a white muslin bag to protect the dates from birds and insects. The bags also help to catch any dates that ripen prior to the beginning of the date harvest."
I'm not saying they are dates, mind you. They could be figs.
What I am saying is this If Allah told me to shake a tree and provision would drop, when I shook the tree, provision would drop.Allah is Provider.
Peace.
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The heliacal rising of Sothis returned to the same point in the calendar every 1460 years (a period called the Sothic cycle). The difference between a seasonal year and a civil year was therefore 365 days in 1460 years, or one day in four years.
Similarly, the Egyptians were aware that 309 lunations nearly equaled 9125 days, or 25 Egyptian years, which was later used in the construction of a secondary lunar calendar that did not depend on observations.Divide the civil year by the number of lunations to come up with the equation.
The number provided is a percentage.
1 lunation = .08 of a civil year x 12 months = .96 of a civil year.
12 lunations is 96% of a civil year.Peace.
Salaam raginggaijin
i never thought that sana could be a lunation.
it has sense for me.
I have already thinked that sana refers to unit of count. For example sana means tooth and asnan (teeth) mean aligned range of tooth.
I have to review my quran for this understanding. However, it seems to me more logical to believe that noah lived 80 years and not 950.thank you for the idea
Peace -
Salaam raginggaijin
i never thought that sana could be a lunation.
it has sense for me.
I have already thinked that sana refers to unit of count. For example sana means tooth and asnan (teeth) mean aligned range of tooth.
I have to review my quran for this understanding. However, it seems to me more logical to believe that noah lived 80 years and not 950.thank you for the idea
PeacePeace be with you,
Thank Allah. He is Bestower of knowledge. )
Here's an addendum after speaking with another believer.
It was during the time when Sirius set and before it rose that Allah revealed the Quran to Ahmad, peace be with him. Surah 531-11
531 And the star when it has fallen (Sirius sets)
532 strays not your companion and errs not,
533 and not he speaks out of the inclination;
534 that it is except a revelation revealed,
535 taught him of the Severe Strength.
536 Possessor of time, so ascended, (sun used to measure time)
537 and it is in the horizon the highest. (Summer solstice)
538 Then presented, so descended, (after Summer solstice)
539 so was a length of two bows or base. (Sun-Sirius conjunction as sun lowers to horizon)
5310 So He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
5311 Not lied the heart what it saw.Sirius sets May 28th
Dog days start July 3rd
Sirius rises August 6th
Dog days end August 11thMonth of Ramadan is when Quran revealed Surah 2185
If you cannot participate in Hajj, you are to fast for 10 days complete Surah 2196
Moses appointed 30 days, plus 10 to make it complete Surah 7142
Moses contracted for 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods ? Hajj occurred during the time of Moses Surah 2827
4 months start Holy months Surah 92-5Based off of this information
The Dog Days are 40 days long, beginning with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
Ramadan occurs in July with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
The 30 days of the month of Ramadan we fast therein, and the following months ? starting August 2nd ? begin the Holy Months.
Hajj occurs immediately after Ramadan during the last 10 days of the Dog Days, immediately following Ramadan, starting August 2nd and ending August 11th.I appreciate you looking into this.
Peace and blessings.
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Peace be with you,
Thank Allah. He is Bestower of knowledge. )
Here's an addendum after speaking with another believer.
It was during the time when Sirius set and before it rose that Allah revealed the Quran to Ahmad, peace be with him. Surah 531-11
531 And the star when it has fallen (Sirius sets)
532 strays not your companion and errs not,
533 and not he speaks out of the inclination;
534 that it is except a revelation revealed,
535 taught him of the Severe Strength.
536 Possessor of time, so ascended, (sun used to measure time)
537 and it is in the horizon the highest. (Summer solstice)
538 Then presented, so descended, (after Summer solstice)
539 so was a length of two bows or base. (Sun-Sirius conjunction as sun lowers to horizon)
5310 So He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
5311 Not lied the heart what it saw.Sirius sets May 28th
Dog days start July 3rd
Sirius rises August 6th
Dog days end August 11thMonth of Ramadan is when Quran revealed Surah 2185
If you cannot participate in Hajj, you are to fast for 10 days complete Surah 2196
Moses appointed 30 days, plus 10 to make it complete Surah 7142
Moses contracted for 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods ? Hajj occurred during the time of Moses Surah 2827
4 months start Holy months Surah 92-5Based off of this information
The Dog Days are 40 days long, beginning with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
Ramadan occurs in July with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
The 30 days of the month of Ramadan we fast therein, and the following months ? starting August 2nd ? begin the Holy Months.
Hajj occurs immediately after Ramadan during the last 10 days of the Dog Days, immediately following Ramadan, starting August 2nd and ending August 11th.I appreciate you looking into this.
Peace and blessings.
salaam raginggaijin
I am convinced that beginning of sourate 53 is related to the revelation (as quite all beginning of sourates).
However i doubt that verses you quoted are speaking about solistice,sirius and dog days.Many things happened in the sky the night Quran was revealed.
Please see my post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604822.0Concerning Hajj and fasting and Omra my conclusions are these
Saoum is explained to us by Issa speaking to his mother (19-26). Eat and drink, don't speak to human and dedicate time to God and God Only.
In arabic Hajj means argument/proof. Hajj is kind of festival where Hojjajs (who make Hajj) presents Hojajs (arguments) to people searching for truth.
So the guy who make Hajj is someone who knows Quran and words of God very good.
Omra means to fill. For example Imara means a building. The one who make Omra is the truth seeker who go to Hajj to meet Hojjajs. Making Omra don't dispense to make Saoum, Omra is not Hajj and who seeks for the truth is not like who found it and try to transmit it.Duration of Saoum is 10 days (i agree with that).
Hajj and saoum begins with the first full moon after automn equinoxe or first autum rains after summer (arabic meaning of word ramadhan).There is absolutely no reason to think that the four Ashoor of Hajj are consecutives.
Quran is clearly pointing to jewish calendar and to the nasiya (http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/timing.htm)For me, as for my french friend Sheikh dukhani, the 3 others periods of Hajj are in torah and in the true injeej (not gospel for me).
We can search for the 3 others Hajj everywhere else and we will never find them. We have also to hold what remained from true torah and true Injeej to hold completely our religion.Peace
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Salam Noshirk
salaam raginggaijin
I am convinced that beginning of sourate 53 is related to the revelation (as quite all beginning of sourates).
However i doubt that verses you quoted are speaking about solistice,sirius and dog days.Many things happened in the sky the night Quran was revealed.
Please see my post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604822.0i read this post and its amazing... possible
Concerning Hajj and fasting and Omra my conclusions are these
Saoum is explained to us by Issa speaking to his mother (19-26). Eat and drink, don't speak to human and dedicate time to God and God Only.i am not agree. Saum means abstinence. Look at Sura mujadila 58 , i believe the Saum in this described matter means to not have sex with your wife (to make 'exercise' for the stupid oath and to feel by it and to do not again) In Sura marjam we found another abstincence- in fact Saum has many faces. But in ramadan the Saum is clear linked with food (eat and drink until the distinction between the black thread and the white can be seen
In arabic Hajj means argument/proof. Hajj is kind of festival where Hojjajs (who make Hajj) presents Hojajs (arguments) to people searching for truth.
So the guy who make Hajj is someone who knows Quran and words of God very good.
Omra means to fill. For example Imara means a building. The one who make Omra is the truth seeker who go to Hajj to meet Hojjajs. Making Omra don't dispense to make Saoum, Omra is not Hajj and who seeks for the truth is not like who found it and try to transmit it.
agree but also the hajj is known before and i read , that there is a feast in the end - when the hajjis they slaughter the 'victims', but God states clear, that this should not be a VICTIM but more a gift /sadaqa for the poor and a meal for us.Duration of Saoum is 10 days (i agree with that).
i'am until now not sure, but it seems to be logic.
Hajj and saoum begins with the first full moon after automn equinoxe or first autum rains after summer (arabic meaning of word ramadhan).
i think they begin as always before with the new moon - i'm not sure for the exact beginning. i think shahr means lunation (There is absolutely no reason to think that the four Ashoor of Hajj are consecutives.
Quran is clearly pointing to jewish calendar and to the nasiya (http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/timing.htm)thank you for the link
For me, as for my french friend Sheikh dukhani, the 3 others periods of Hajj are in torah and in the true injeej (not gospel for me).
We can search for the 3 others Hajj everywhere else and we will never find them. We have also to hold what remained from true torah and true Injeej to hold completely our religion.i'am agree with you handshake
Peace
peace peace
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salaam raginggaijin
I am convinced that beginning of sourate 53 is related to the revelation (as quite all beginning of sourates).
However i doubt that verses you quoted are speaking about solistice,sirius and dog days.Many things happened in the sky the night Quran was revealed.
Please see my post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604822.0Concerning Hajj and fasting and Omra my conclusions are these
Saoum is explained to us by Issa speaking to his mother (19-26). Eat and drink, don't speak to human and dedicate time to God and God Only.
In arabic Hajj means argument/proof. Hajj is kind of festival where Hojjajs (who make Hajj) presents Hojajs (arguments) to people searching for truth.
So the guy who make Hajj is someone who knows Quran and words of God very good.
Omra means to fill. For example Imara means a building. The one who make Omra is the truth seeker who go to Hajj to meet Hojjajs. Making Omra don't dispense to make Saoum, Omra is not Hajj and who seeks for the truth is not like who found it and try to transmit it.Duration of Saoum is 10 days (i agree with that).
Hajj and saoum begins with the first full moon after automn equinoxe or first autum rains after summer (arabic meaning of word ramadhan).There is absolutely no reason to think that the four Ashoor of Hajj are consecutives.
Quran is clearly pointing to jewish calendar and to the nasiya (http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/timing.htm)For me, as for my french friend Sheikh dukhani, the 3 others periods of Hajj are in torah and in the true injeej (not gospel for me).
We can search for the 3 others Hajj everywhere else and we will never find them. We have also to hold what remained from true torah and true Injeej to hold completely our religion.Peace
I am bolding the parts to show a man who I have spoken to evidence of my claims concerning this site and those who frequent here.
I am not a Jew nor am I a Christian; I submit my will to Allah and I follow the teachings revealed to Ahmad; the faith of Abraham. So while I understand why people strive to uphold teachings from previous Books, I do not agree with it when Surah 548-50 makes it clear not to follow the caprices of the families of the Book.
As well, while you point to the star in Surah 53, the month timing has been unchanged since 800 BCE, which invalidates the Autumn dating.
Also, the above was an addendum. This is what precededSirius sets every May; the specific date varies depending on the location, but it's always been in May. Has since -600 BCE. It sets here in California on May 23, but in Egypt - of which Midian is a part of it - it sets on May 28th.
It was during the time when Sirius set and before it rose that Allah revealed the Quran to Ahmad, peace be with him. Surah 531-11
531 And the star when it has fallen (Sirius sets)
532 strays not your companion and errs not,
533 and not he speaks out of the inclination;
534 that it is except a revelation revealed,
535 taught him of the Severe Strength.
536 Possessor of time, so ascended, (sun used to measure time)
537 and it is in the horizon the highest. (Summer solstice)
538 Then presented, so descended, (after Summer solstice)
539 so was a length of two bows or base. (Sun-Sirius conjunction as sun lowers to horizon)
5310 So He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
5311 Not lied the heart what it saw.Sirius sets May 28th
Dog days start July 3rd
Sirius rises August 6th
Dog days end August 11thThe common noun "ramadhan" means "scorching heat". The only derivative from "R-M-Dh" in the great reading is the word "ramadhan", which occurs only once. Hence, there is no way to compare directly the meaning with how it is used in other verses.
Lord of Sirius Surah 5349
The bright star is the title member of the Sirius stellar moving group (also known as the Sirius Super Cluster or Ursa Major star stream)Star of piercing brightness Surah 861-4
861 And the sky and the road (wal-riqi);
862 and what will make you know what the road is
863 the star of the piercing.
864 That every soul has over it a guardian.891 And the dawn,
892 and the ten nights,
893 and the even, and the odd,
894 and the night when it runs.
895 Is in that an oath for those restricted.
896 Did not you see how dealt your Lord with Aad -
897 Iram, possessors of the pillars* -
898 which not had been created like them in the lands.
899 And Thamud those who carved out of the rocks in the valley.
8910 And Pharaoh, possessor of the stakes.
8911 Those who transgressed in the lands
8912 then multiplied in it of the corruption.
8913 So poured upon them your Lord?s scourge of punishment.
8914 Surely, your Lord is Sentinel.
*Baalbek of AramThe helical rising of a star is its first appearance in the Eastern sky at dawn. Over a sidereal year, the star will rise earlier and earlier until it sets at dawn, followed a period of 70 days when it is no longer visible by dawn, before the cycle begins again.
There are only two seasons named in the Quran Winter and Summer. In that order. Surah 1062
The ancient Egyptian calendar had 3 seasons Spring, Winter, and Summer. In that order.
Spring season starts the new year with the helical rising of Sirius, and lasts 4 months August - November.
Winter season is the growing season December - March.
Summer season is the harvest season Apr-Julhttp//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalistic_month
The months are well-known, just like the days. During the time of revelation, when the Byzantine and Persian empires were dominant, we had the Julian, Hebrew/Arabic, Egyptian, and Persian calendars.
These calendars were either solar or lunar/solar, but all had 365 days in them.Postponement (al-nasiu) Surah 937
The Egyptian calendar has an additional 5 days called the small (nasie) month, which wasn't a month but 5 days of festivities before the New Year, when Sirius' helical rising occurred and the Nile river flooded Egypt.
"'Your tryst shall be upon the days of the Adornment (yawmu alzzeenati).' said Moses. 'Let the people be mustered at the high noon.'" Surah 2059
http//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15475319/#.UNV6o6ywWSo
From the link ?Some of the inscriptions that were uncovered at the temple link the drunkenness festival with "traveling through the marshes," which Bryan said was an ancient Egyptian euphemism for having sex. The sexual connection is reinforced by graffiti depicting men and women in positions that might draw some tut-tutting today."
The Hebrew calendar added an extra month to make their lunar calendar fit.
The days and months were numbered, and we can see proof of this still with our current solar calendar with names like September (7), October (, November (9), and December (10). (There is a reason for the shift, but that's another discussion.)
The Sabbath (l-sabti) has been a day of congregation. This is the only day named in the Quran. Surah 265, 447, 4154, 7163, 16124
Allah does not change, nor does He change His course (sunnati Allahi) Surah 624, 6115, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3030, 3362, 4815, 4823, 673-4
Month of Ramadan is when Quran revealed Surah 2185
If you cannot participate in Hajj, you are to fast for 10 days complete Surah 2196
Moses appointed 30 days, plus 10 to make it complete Surah 7142
Moses contracted for 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods ? Hajj occurred during the time of Moses Surah 2827
4 months start Holy months Surah 92-5Based off of this information, I believe Ramadan occurs in July with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd. The 30 days of the month of Ramadan we fast therein, and the following months ? in August ? starts the Holy Months. Hajj occurs immediately after Ramadan during the last 10 days of the Dog Days, which occurs 10 days immediately following Ramadan.
Look to Surah 92-5 to note the period of truce is equal to the period of sacred months; when the holy months are over, so too is the truce.
I also disagree with your count and your opinion on what constitutes Hajj. What we are to do is detailed in Surah 2196-197.
"...whoso undertakes the duty of Pilgrimage in them shall not go in to his womenfolk nor indulge in ungodliness and disputing (jidla) in the Pilgrimage." Surah 2197 (excerpt)
If (-aja) means 'arguing' as per (jjna) in Surah 4216, then there is a contradiction in the Quran as per Surah 2197.
The Quran contains no contradictions.If we cannot offer a sacrifice to Allah for Hajj ? which we use to feed the poor and the well fed - we are to fast for 10 days Surah 2196
Moses was appointed 30 nights with Allah and completed with 10 nights for 40 nights total Surah 251, 7142
?And We appointed with Moses thirty (thalthna) nights (laylatan) and We completed (wa-atmamnhā them with ten, so the appointed time of his Lord was forty nights; and Moses said to his brother Aaron, 'Be my successor among my people, and put things right, and do not follow the way of the workers of corruption.'? Surah 7142Allah is Guide. I submit my will to Him and Him alone.
The Quran will be able to guide a person - such as myself - who has only the Quran as a guide. I am not a Jew nor am I a son of Israel; the Torah and Gospel were not sent to my nation. I believe in them, but I do not follow them. I follow only the Quran.The events discussed, the setting and rising of Sirius, the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius, along with the Dog Days of Summer, can be evidenced and validated by anyone at anytime without need of special equipment; just our eyes.
The fasting is in the month of Ramadan, which is more than 10 nights.
You are welcome to doubt. Such is the nature of seeking Truth.
I too am seeking evidence to support or disprove what I believe, and as proven in this very thread when evidence is brought forth I will amend my beliefs to fall into line.
You are welcome to believe as you wish, though I do not agree with you. )Peace.
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Salaam raginggaijin
Quran is between us.
I am ready to reject my understanding if you show me quranic evidence.
Your mention of 548 is not clear for me. Do you reject all what is in Toraj and Injeej ? Rejecting torah is same as rejecting Desires of Jews ?
548 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. ......What God meant by "what was between your hands ?".
Concerning the 4 month, i don't understand what you are thinking
Let me ask some questions for eventual further discussion.
How many periods of Hajj there is for you ? 4 periods of one Month are not same as one period of 4 months.
When are they ?
How many times in a life have we to make Hojj (whatever it is) ?I would be grateful if you use no Hadith and no "our ancients said".
Only Words of God in our discussion.
2196 And complete the HAJJ and the OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by SIYYAM or giving a charity or a NISK. If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.
919 Have you made the watering of the HAJJ and the IMARA of the MASJID HARAM the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and he strives in the cause of God? They are not the same with God. And God does not guide the wicked people.
I replaced in traduction contested words by their original word.
At first sight, HAJJ, OMRA and SAoum are related. IAATAMARA is same Root than OMRA and there is something called IAATAMA to HAJJ wich seems to indicate, at least, that they are occuring same time.
We See also that Who make OMRA have to make something in addition relative to who make Hajj.
We see also that who make Omra has to give "offering" and if he cannot, he have to to 10 days of saoum.
We see also that those whose family in not near Masjid Haram can delay 7 of the 10 days.From 9-19; we see that who Make Imara is not same level for God than who strives ....
It is logical from context of 9-19 to suppose that who strives.... is the Hajj. However you can reject it and suppose that who make Hajj is not mentionned (forgetten) in 9-19.
However, it is difficult to contest that Who make Omra is quite same level than who is delevring drink to the Hajj.Now, why who make only omra, and cannot offer something (probably because he is poor) have to make SIYYAM. Is it to remember that they are poor ? That is no sense and then Siyyam has no link to eat and drink.
While who made Omra are doing Siyyam, what are supposed to do Muslims who stayed at home ? Why Who make Omra has to make something more ?
Why God is insisting on fact that 3+7 complete the 10 days ?
Why God use for Hajj a word that means argue/argument ?
Why God use for Omra a word that means to fill/charge a place (with his body) ?Based quite only these two verses, i can deduce
saoum in 10 days.
Hajj is debator who argue in name of God.
Who make Omra is there to ask questions and listen. He is not dispensed from Siyyam.
Who make neither Hajj neither Omra has to make classical SiyyamNow if saoum is 10 days then chahr ramadan is not a 30 day period.
Depending on your response on the 4 months, we will try to see what all this people are supposed to do during the "Hajj periods".
Hope, if there is further discussion, you will not repeat the classical claim "i tell you the truth and you are free to follow your own wishes".
This claim is the claim of who pretend to be my Rabb.Peace
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Salam
sorry, if i interrupt the discussion, but there are many points not clear for me.I am bolding the parts to show a man who I have spoken to evidence of my claims concerning this site and those who frequent here.
I am not a Jew nor am I a Christian; I submit my will to Allah and I follow the teachings revealed to Ahmad; the faith of Abraham. So while I understand why people strive to uphold teachings from previous Books, I do not agree with it when Surah 548-50 makes it clear not to follow the caprices of the families of the Book.
As well, while you point to the star in Surah 53, the month timing has been unchanged since 800 BCE, which invalidates the Autumn dating.
Also, the above was an addendum. This is what precededLook to Surah 92-5 to note the period of truce is equal to the period of sacred months; when the holy months are over, so too is the truce.
in the Torah we found more then one hajj and different sacred month- so as in the 'sunna' - but this ayas point to the fact, that this is something from what it was changed.
I also disagree with your count and your opinion on what constitutes Hajj. What we are to do is detailed in Surah 2196-197."...whoso undertakes the duty of Pilgrimage in them shall not go in to his womenfolk nor indulge in ungodliness and disputing (jidla) in the Pilgrimage." Surah 2197 (excerpt)
If (-aja) means 'arguing' as per (jjna) in Surah 4216, then there is a contradiction in the Quran as per Surah 2197.
The Quran contains no contradictions.
yes , this is right, i overlook this before. thank you
If we cannot offer a sacrifice to Allah for Hajj ? which we use to feed the poor and the well fed - we are to fast for 10 days Surah 2196
i think the word sacrifice is false- God he don't like a sacrifice (as made before) the best 'sacrifice' is to help others (sadaqa) or to make 'selfsacrifice' (saum). But i'm not sure if this HADY can point to the 'zakat' (the first fruits or a part from the crops) and if this is not possible we should saum.
Moses was appointed 30 nights with Allah and completed with 10 nights for 40 nights total Surah 251, 7142
?And We appointed with Moses thirty (thalthna) nights (laylatan) and We completed (wa-atmamnhā them with ten, so the appointed time of his Lord was forty nights; and Moses said to his brother Aaron, 'Be my successor among my people, and put things right, and do not follow the way of the workers of corruption.'? Surah 7142
his is a good point and much times overlooked. i read here once an article from brother alkitab- who states the same fact and it seems correct for AND DO NOT FOLLOW THE WAY OF THE WORKERS OF CORRUPTION.Allah is Guide. I submit my will to Him and Him alone.
The Quran will be able to guide a person - such as myself - who has only the Quran as a guide. I am not a Jew nor am I a son of Israel; the Torah and Gospel were not sent to my nation. I believe in them, but I do not follow them. I follow only the Quran.
But the Quran never states, that Islam is a new 'religion'- the Quran confirmed and partly corrected the previous scriptures in order to distinguish falsehood from the rightThe events discussed, the setting and rising of Sirius, the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius, along with the Dog Days of Summer, can be evidenced and validated by anyone at anytime without need of special equipment; just our eyes.
yes and no- if you translate the shahr ramadan with hot/sorched/ lunation (the lunation before the hajj saison, which begin with the Hilal (the harvest?) this will be also much easy for all.The fasting is in the month of Ramadan, which is more than 10 nights.
i think now, that ramadan is fard. and the fasting of the 10 days hajj is not fard.You are welcome to doubt. Such is the nature of seeking Truth.
I too am seeking evidence to support or disprove what I believe, and as proven in this very thread when evidence is brought forth I will amend my beliefs to fall into line.
You are welcome to believe as you wish, though I do not agree with you. )Peace.
Salam
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2196 And complete the HAJJ and the OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by SIYYAM or giving a charity or a NISK. If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.
Ouos!
forget to mention another remark for what is bold.
it is clealy said that who cannot make Hajj or OMRA have to make SIYYAM or charity or nisk depending on what his heath/illness status.
So Hajj is the same periode that period Saoum for other people.Note also that Siyyam is not discarded totally by illness. That remark is difficult to make fit by siyyam of drink and eat theory. Note also how affliction of head is particularly enhanced and related to Hajj and Omra. That is easy to make fit by debate/listening/asking about word of God theory.
Peace