Winter Ramadan Investigation (as outlined by The Natural Republic)

[GODsubmitter]

They ALL (&we all) have those questions unanswered @Scrappy-doo!

And, even in this thread, one can see how people AVOID answering directly, directing attention to bananas instead...

[simonejamilla]

They ALL (&we all) have those questions unanswered @Scrappy-doo!

And, even in this thread, one can see how people AVOID answering directly, directing attention to bananas instead...

LOL! I agree. rotfl

[raginggaijin]

So 1 lunation would equal 9 months? I don't understand? confused

The heliacal rising of Sothis returned to the same point in the calendar every 1460 years (a period called the Sothic cycle). The difference between a seasonal year and a civil year was therefore 365 days in 1460 years, or one day in four years.
Similarly, the Egyptians were aware that 309 lunations nearly equaled 9125 days, or 25 Egyptian years, which was later used in the construction of a secondary lunar calendar that did not depend on observations.

Divide the civil year by the number of lunations to come up with the equation.
The number provided is a percentage.
1 lunation = .08 of a civil year x 12 months = .96 of a civil year.
12 lunations is 96% of a civil year.

Peace.

[mmkhan]

Peace mmkhan.

You " think" or you are sure it is banana tree?

If you are sure with " evidence", I will stand corrected?

Thank you.

Peace.

Peace brother,

I "think" it is banana tree, because there is NO evidence for dates tree either. And as I mentioned earlier, it is not possible to shake the trunk of dates tree. So, I think it is referring to banana tree because it is easy to shake its trunk and ripe bananas can fall easily.

May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

[good_logic]

Peace mmkhan.

I take it we agree ,then.

I shall take dates and you take bananas, for now.

Thank you.

Peace.

[raginggaijin]

Peace brother,

I "think" it is banana tree, because there is NO evidence for dates tree either. And as I mentioned earlier, it is not possible to shake the trunk of dates tree. So, I think it is referring to banana tree because it is easy to shake its trunk and ripe bananas can fall easily.

May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

http//www.dateland.com/Tutorial.html

"Around the beginning of August, the Medjool Dates are covered with a white muslin bag to protect the dates from birds and insects. The bags also help to catch any dates that ripen prior to the beginning of the date harvest."

I'm not saying they are dates, mind you. They could be figs.
What I am saying is this If Allah told me to shake a tree and provision would drop, when I shook the tree, provision would drop.

Allah is Provider.

Peace.

[noshirk]

The heliacal rising of Sothis returned to the same point in the calendar every 1460 years (a period called the Sothic cycle). The difference between a seasonal year and a civil year was therefore 365 days in 1460 years, or one day in four years.
Similarly, the Egyptians were aware that 309 lunations nearly equaled 9125 days, or 25 Egyptian years, which was later used in the construction of a secondary lunar calendar that did not depend on observations.

Divide the civil year by the number of lunations to come up with the equation.
The number provided is a percentage.
1 lunation = .08 of a civil year x 12 months = .96 of a civil year.
12 lunations is 96% of a civil year.

Peace.

Salaam raginggaijin
i never thought that sana could be a lunation.
it has sense for me.
I have already thinked that sana refers to unit of count. For example sana means tooth and asnan (teeth) mean aligned range of tooth.
I have to review my quran for this understanding. However, it seems to me more logical to believe that noah lived 80 years and not 950.

thank you for the idea
Peace

[raginggaijin]

Salaam raginggaijin
i never thought that sana could be a lunation.
it has sense for me.
I have already thinked that sana refers to unit of count. For example sana means tooth and asnan (teeth) mean aligned range of tooth.
I have to review my quran for this understanding. However, it seems to me more logical to believe that noah lived 80 years and not 950.

thank you for the idea
Peace

Peace be with you,

Thank Allah. He is Bestower of knowledge. )

Here's an addendum after speaking with another believer.

It was during the time when Sirius set and before it rose that Allah revealed the Quran to Ahmad, peace be with him. Surah 531-11

531 And the star when it has fallen (Sirius sets)
532 strays not your companion and errs not,
533 and not he speaks out of the inclination;
534 that it is except a revelation revealed,
535 taught him of the Severe Strength.
536 Possessor of time, so ascended, (sun used to measure time)
537 and it is in the horizon the highest. (Summer solstice)
538 Then presented, so descended, (after Summer solstice)
539 so was a length of two bows or base. (Sun-Sirius conjunction as sun lowers to horizon)
5310 So He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
5311 Not lied the heart what it saw.

Sirius sets May 28th
Dog days start July 3rd
Sirius rises August 6th
Dog days end August 11th

Month of Ramadan is when Quran revealed Surah 2185
If you cannot participate in Hajj, you are to fast for 10 days complete Surah 2196
Moses appointed 30 days, plus 10 to make it complete Surah 7142
Moses contracted for 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods ? Hajj occurred during the time of Moses Surah 2827
4 months start Holy months Surah 92-5

Based off of this information
The Dog Days are 40 days long, beginning with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
Ramadan occurs in July with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
The 30 days of the month of Ramadan we fast therein, and the following months ? starting August 2nd ? begin the Holy Months.
Hajj occurs immediately after Ramadan during the last 10 days of the Dog Days, immediately following Ramadan, starting August 2nd and ending August 11th.

I appreciate you looking into this.

Peace and blessings.

[noshirk]

Peace be with you,

Thank Allah. He is Bestower of knowledge. )

Here's an addendum after speaking with another believer.

It was during the time when Sirius set and before it rose that Allah revealed the Quran to Ahmad, peace be with him. Surah 531-11

531 And the star when it has fallen (Sirius sets)
532 strays not your companion and errs not,
533 and not he speaks out of the inclination;
534 that it is except a revelation revealed,
535 taught him of the Severe Strength.
536 Possessor of time, so ascended, (sun used to measure time)
537 and it is in the horizon the highest. (Summer solstice)
538 Then presented, so descended, (after Summer solstice)
539 so was a length of two bows or base. (Sun-Sirius conjunction as sun lowers to horizon)
5310 So He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
5311 Not lied the heart what it saw.

Sirius sets May 28th
Dog days start July 3rd
Sirius rises August 6th
Dog days end August 11th

Month of Ramadan is when Quran revealed Surah 2185
If you cannot participate in Hajj, you are to fast for 10 days complete Surah 2196
Moses appointed 30 days, plus 10 to make it complete Surah 7142
Moses contracted for 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods ? Hajj occurred during the time of Moses Surah 2827
4 months start Holy months Surah 92-5

Based off of this information
The Dog Days are 40 days long, beginning with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
Ramadan occurs in July with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
The 30 days of the month of Ramadan we fast therein, and the following months ? starting August 2nd ? begin the Holy Months.
Hajj occurs immediately after Ramadan during the last 10 days of the Dog Days, immediately following Ramadan, starting August 2nd and ending August 11th.

I appreciate you looking into this.

Peace and blessings.

salaam raginggaijin
I am convinced that beginning of sourate 53 is related to the revelation (as quite all beginning of sourates).
However i doubt that verses you quoted are speaking about solistice,sirius and dog days.

Many things happened in the sky the night Quran was revealed.
Please see my post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604822.0

Concerning Hajj and fasting and Omra my conclusions are these
Saoum is explained to us by Issa speaking to his mother (19-26). Eat and drink, don't speak to human and dedicate time to God and God Only.
In arabic Hajj means argument/proof. Hajj is kind of festival where Hojjajs (who make Hajj) presents Hojajs (arguments) to people searching for truth.
So the guy who make Hajj is someone who knows Quran and words of God very good.
Omra means to fill. For example Imara means a building. The one who make Omra is the truth seeker who go to Hajj to meet Hojjajs. Making Omra don't dispense to make Saoum, Omra is not Hajj and who seeks for the truth is not like who found it and try to transmit it.

Duration of Saoum is 10 days (i agree with that).
Hajj and saoum begins with the first full moon after automn equinoxe or first autum rains after summer (arabic meaning of word ramadhan).

There is absolutely no reason to think that the four Ashoor of Hajj are consecutives.
Quran is clearly pointing to jewish calendar and to the nasiya (http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/timing.htm)

For me, as for my french friend Sheikh dukhani, the 3 others periods of Hajj are in torah and in the true injeej (not gospel for me).
We can search for the 3 others Hajj everywhere else and we will never find them. We have also to hold what remained from true torah and true Injeej to hold completely our religion.

Peace

[mirjamnur]

Salam Noshirk

salaam raginggaijin
I am convinced that beginning of sourate 53 is related to the revelation (as quite all beginning of sourates).
However i doubt that verses you quoted are speaking about solistice,sirius and dog days.

Many things happened in the sky the night Quran was revealed.
Please see my post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604822.0

i read this post and its amazing... possible

Concerning Hajj and fasting and Omra my conclusions are these
Saoum is explained to us by Issa speaking to his mother (19-26). Eat and drink, don't speak to human and dedicate time to God and God Only.

i am not agree. Saum means abstinence. Look at Sura mujadila 58 , i believe the Saum in this described matter means to not have sex with your wife (to make 'exercise' for the stupid oath and to feel by it and to do not again) In Sura marjam we found another abstincence- in fact Saum has many faces. But in ramadan the Saum is clear linked with food (eat and drink until the distinction between the black thread and the white can be seen

In arabic Hajj means argument/proof. Hajj is kind of festival where Hojjajs (who make Hajj) presents Hojajs (arguments) to people searching for truth.
So the guy who make Hajj is someone who knows Quran and words of God very good.
Omra means to fill. For example Imara means a building. The one who make Omra is the truth seeker who go to Hajj to meet Hojjajs. Making Omra don't dispense to make Saoum, Omra is not Hajj and who seeks for the truth is not like who found it and try to transmit it.
agree but also the hajj is known before and i read , that there is a feast in the end - when the hajjis they slaughter the 'victims', but God states clear, that this should not be a VICTIM but more a gift /sadaqa for the poor and a meal for us.

Duration of Saoum is 10 days (i agree with that).
i'am until now not sure, but it seems to be logic.
Hajj and saoum begins with the first full moon after automn equinoxe or first autum rains after summer (arabic meaning of word ramadhan).
i think they begin as always before with the new moon - i'm not sure for the exact beginning. i think shahr means lunation (

There is absolutely no reason to think that the four Ashoor of Hajj are consecutives.
Quran is clearly pointing to jewish calendar and to the nasiya (http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/timing.htm)

thank you for the link

For me, as for my french friend Sheikh dukhani, the 3 others periods of Hajj are in torah and in the true injeej (not gospel for me).
We can search for the 3 others Hajj everywhere else and we will never find them. We have also to hold what remained from true torah and true Injeej to hold completely our religion.

i'am agree with you handshake

Peace

peace peace

[raginggaijin]

salaam raginggaijin
I am convinced that beginning of sourate 53 is related to the revelation (as quite all beginning of sourates).
However i doubt that verses you quoted are speaking about solistice,sirius and dog days.

Many things happened in the sky the night Quran was revealed.
Please see my post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604822.0

Concerning Hajj and fasting and Omra my conclusions are these
Saoum is explained to us by Issa speaking to his mother (19-26). Eat and drink, don't speak to human and dedicate time to God and God Only.
In arabic Hajj means argument/proof. Hajj is kind of festival where Hojjajs (who make Hajj) presents Hojajs (arguments) to people searching for truth.
So the guy who make Hajj is someone who knows Quran and words of God very good.
Omra means to fill. For example Imara means a building. The one who make Omra is the truth seeker who go to Hajj to meet Hojjajs. Making Omra don't dispense to make Saoum, Omra is not Hajj and who seeks for the truth is not like who found it and try to transmit it.

Duration of Saoum is 10 days (i agree with that).
Hajj and saoum begins with the first full moon after automn equinoxe or first autum rains after summer (arabic meaning of word ramadhan).

There is absolutely no reason to think that the four Ashoor of Hajj are consecutives.
Quran is clearly pointing to jewish calendar and to the nasiya (http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/timing.htm)

For me, as for my french friend Sheikh dukhani, the 3 others periods of Hajj are in torah and in the true injeej (not gospel for me).
We can search for the 3 others Hajj everywhere else and we will never find them. We have also to hold what remained from true torah and true Injeej to hold completely our religion.

Peace

I am bolding the parts to show a man who I have spoken to evidence of my claims concerning this site and those who frequent here.

I am not a Jew nor am I a Christian; I submit my will to Allah and I follow the teachings revealed to Ahmad; the faith of Abraham. So while I understand why people strive to uphold teachings from previous Books, I do not agree with it when Surah 548-50 makes it clear not to follow the caprices of the families of the Book.

As well, while you point to the star in Surah 53, the month timing has been unchanged since 800 BCE, which invalidates the Autumn dating.
Also, the above was an addendum. This is what preceded

Sirius sets every May; the specific date varies depending on the location, but it's always been in May. Has since -600 BCE. It sets here in California on May 23, but in Egypt - of which Midian is a part of it - it sets on May 28th.

It was during the time when Sirius set and before it rose that Allah revealed the Quran to Ahmad, peace be with him. Surah 531-11

531 And the star when it has fallen (Sirius sets)
532 strays not your companion and errs not,
533 and not he speaks out of the inclination;
534 that it is except a revelation revealed,
535 taught him of the Severe Strength.
536 Possessor of time, so ascended, (sun used to measure time)
537 and it is in the horizon the highest. (Summer solstice)
538 Then presented, so descended, (after Summer solstice)
539 so was a length of two bows or base. (Sun-Sirius conjunction as sun lowers to horizon)
5310 So He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
5311 Not lied the heart what it saw.

Sirius sets May 28th
Dog days start July 3rd
Sirius rises August 6th
Dog days end August 11th

The common noun "ramadhan" means "scorching heat". The only derivative from "R-M-Dh" in the great reading is the word "ramadhan", which occurs only once. Hence, there is no way to compare directly the meaning with how it is used in other verses.

Lord of Sirius Surah 5349
The bright star is the title member of the Sirius stellar moving group (also known as the Sirius Super Cluster or Ursa Major star stream)

Star of piercing brightness Surah 861-4
861 And the sky and the road (wal-riqi);
862 and what will make you know what the road is
863 the star of the piercing.
864 That every soul has over it a guardian.

891 And the dawn,
892 and the ten nights,
893 and the even, and the odd,
894 and the night when it runs.
895 Is in that an oath for those restricted.
896 Did not you see how dealt your Lord with Aad -
897 Iram, possessors of the pillars* -
898 which not had been created like them in the lands.
899 And Thamud those who carved out of the rocks in the valley.
8910 And Pharaoh, possessor of the stakes.
8911 Those who transgressed in the lands
8912 then multiplied in it of the corruption.
8913 So poured upon them your Lord?s scourge of punishment.
8914 Surely, your Lord is Sentinel.
*Baalbek of Aram

The helical rising of a star is its first appearance in the Eastern sky at dawn. Over a sidereal year, the star will rise earlier and earlier until it sets at dawn, followed a period of 70 days when it is no longer visible by dawn, before the cycle begins again.

There are only two seasons named in the Quran Winter and Summer. In that order. Surah 1062

The ancient Egyptian calendar had 3 seasons Spring, Winter, and Summer. In that order.
Spring season starts the new year with the helical rising of Sirius, and lasts 4 months August - November.
Winter season is the growing season December - March.
Summer season is the harvest season Apr-Jul

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalistic_month

The months are well-known, just like the days. During the time of revelation, when the Byzantine and Persian empires were dominant, we had the Julian, Hebrew/Arabic, Egyptian, and Persian calendars.
These calendars were either solar or lunar/solar, but all had 365 days in them.

Postponement (al-nasiu) Surah 937

The Egyptian calendar has an additional 5 days called the small (nasie) month, which wasn't a month but 5 days of festivities before the New Year, when Sirius' helical rising occurred and the Nile river flooded Egypt.

"'Your tryst shall be upon the days of the Adornment (yawmu alzzeenati).' said Moses. 'Let the people be mustered at the high noon.'" Surah 2059

http//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15475319/#.UNV6o6ywWSo

From the link ?Some of the inscriptions that were uncovered at the temple link the drunkenness festival with "traveling through the marshes," which Bryan said was an ancient Egyptian euphemism for having sex. The sexual connection is reinforced by graffiti depicting men and women in positions that might draw some tut-tutting today."

The Hebrew calendar added an extra month to make their lunar calendar fit.

The days and months were numbered, and we can see proof of this still with our current solar calendar with names like September (7), October (, November (9), and December (10). (There is a reason for the shift, but that's another discussion.)

The Sabbath (l-sabti) has been a day of congregation. This is the only day named in the Quran. Surah 265, 447, 4154, 7163, 16124

Allah does not change, nor does He change His course (sunnati Allahi) Surah 624, 6115, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3030, 3362, 4815, 4823, 673-4

Month of Ramadan is when Quran revealed Surah 2185
If you cannot participate in Hajj, you are to fast for 10 days complete Surah 2196
Moses appointed 30 days, plus 10 to make it complete Surah 7142
Moses contracted for 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods ? Hajj occurred during the time of Moses Surah 2827
4 months start Holy months Surah 92-5

Based off of this information, I believe Ramadan occurs in July with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd. The 30 days of the month of Ramadan we fast therein, and the following months ? in August ? starts the Holy Months. Hajj occurs immediately after Ramadan during the last 10 days of the Dog Days, which occurs 10 days immediately following Ramadan.

Look to Surah 92-5 to note the period of truce is equal to the period of sacred months; when the holy months are over, so too is the truce.

I also disagree with your count and your opinion on what constitutes Hajj. What we are to do is detailed in Surah 2196-197.

"...whoso undertakes the duty of Pilgrimage in them shall not go in to his womenfolk nor indulge in ungodliness and disputing (jidla) in the Pilgrimage." Surah 2197 (excerpt)

If (-aja) means 'arguing' as per (jjna) in Surah 4216, then there is a contradiction in the Quran as per Surah 2197.
The Quran contains no contradictions.

If we cannot offer a sacrifice to Allah for Hajj ? which we use to feed the poor and the well fed - we are to fast for 10 days Surah 2196

Moses was appointed 30 nights with Allah and completed with 10 nights for 40 nights total Surah 251, 7142
?And We appointed with Moses thirty (thalthna) nights (laylatan) and We completed (wa-atmamnh&#257 them with ten, so the appointed time of his Lord was forty nights; and Moses said to his brother Aaron, 'Be my successor among my people, and put things right, and do not follow the way of the workers of corruption.'? Surah 7142

Allah is Guide. I submit my will to Him and Him alone.
The Quran will be able to guide a person - such as myself - who has only the Quran as a guide. I am not a Jew nor am I a son of Israel; the Torah and Gospel were not sent to my nation. I believe in them, but I do not follow them. I follow only the Quran.

The events discussed, the setting and rising of Sirius, the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius, along with the Dog Days of Summer, can be evidenced and validated by anyone at anytime without need of special equipment; just our eyes.

The fasting is in the month of Ramadan, which is more than 10 nights.

You are welcome to doubt. Such is the nature of seeking Truth.
I too am seeking evidence to support or disprove what I believe, and as proven in this very thread when evidence is brought forth I will amend my beliefs to fall into line.
You are welcome to believe as you wish, though I do not agree with you. )

Peace.

[noshirk]

Salaam raginggaijin

Quran is between us.
I am ready to reject my understanding if you show me quranic evidence.

---

Your mention of 548 is not clear for me. Do you reject all what is in Toraj and Injeej ? Rejecting torah is same as rejecting Desires of Jews ?
548 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. ......

What God meant by "what was between your hands ?".

---

Concerning the 4 month, i don't understand what you are thinking
Let me ask some questions for eventual further discussion.
How many periods of Hajj there is for you ? 4 periods of one Month are not same as one period of 4 months.
When are they ?
How many times in a life have we to make Hojj (whatever it is) ?

I would be grateful if you use no Hadith and no "our ancients said".
Only Words of God in our discussion.

---

2196 And complete the HAJJ and the OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by SIYYAM or giving a charity or a NISK. If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.

919 Have you made the watering of the HAJJ and the IMARA of the MASJID HARAM the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and he strives in the cause of God? They are not the same with God. And God does not guide the wicked people.

I replaced in traduction contested words by their original word.
At first sight, HAJJ, OMRA and SAoum are related. IAATAMARA is same Root than OMRA and there is something called IAATAMA to HAJJ wich seems to indicate, at least, that they are occuring same time.
We See also that Who make OMRA have to make something in addition relative to who make Hajj.
We see also that who make Omra has to give "offering" and if he cannot, he have to to 10 days of saoum.
We see also that those whose family in not near Masjid Haram can delay 7 of the 10 days.

From 9-19; we see that who Make Imara is not same level for God than who strives ....
It is logical from context of 9-19 to suppose that who strives.... is the Hajj. However you can reject it and suppose that who make Hajj is not mentionned (forgetten) in 9-19.
However, it is difficult to contest that Who make Omra is quite same level than who is delevring drink to the Hajj.

Now, why who make only omra, and cannot offer something (probably because he is poor) have to make SIYYAM. Is it to remember that they are poor ? That is no sense and then Siyyam has no link to eat and drink.
While who made Omra are doing Siyyam, what are supposed to do Muslims who stayed at home ? Why Who make Omra has to make something more ?
Why God is insisting on fact that 3+7 complete the 10 days ?
Why God use for Hajj a word that means argue/argument ?
Why God use for Omra a word that means to fill/charge a place (with his body) ?

Based quite only these two verses, i can deduce
saoum in 10 days.
Hajj is debator who argue in name of God.
Who make Omra is there to ask questions and listen. He is not dispensed from Siyyam.
Who make neither Hajj neither Omra has to make classical Siyyam

Now if saoum is 10 days then chahr ramadan is not a 30 day period.
Depending on your response on the 4 months, we will try to see what all this people are supposed to do during the "Hajj periods".

---

Hope, if there is further discussion, you will not repeat the classical claim "i tell you the truth and you are free to follow your own wishes".
This claim is the claim of who pretend to be my Rabb.

Peace

[mirjamnur]

Salam
sorry, if i interrupt the discussion, but there are many points not clear for me.

I am bolding the parts to show a man who I have spoken to evidence of my claims concerning this site and those who frequent here.

I am not a Jew nor am I a Christian; I submit my will to Allah and I follow the teachings revealed to Ahmad; the faith of Abraham. So while I understand why people strive to uphold teachings from previous Books, I do not agree with it when Surah 548-50 makes it clear not to follow the caprices of the families of the Book.

As well, while you point to the star in Surah 53, the month timing has been unchanged since 800 BCE, which invalidates the Autumn dating.
Also, the above was an addendum. This is what preceded

Look to Surah 92-5 to note the period of truce is equal to the period of sacred months; when the holy months are over, so too is the truce.
in the Torah we found more then one hajj and different sacred month- so as in the 'sunna' - but this ayas point to the fact, that this is something from what it was changed.
I also disagree with your count and your opinion on what constitutes Hajj. What we are to do is detailed in Surah 2196-197.

"...whoso undertakes the duty of Pilgrimage in them shall not go in to his womenfolk nor indulge in ungodliness and disputing (jidla) in the Pilgrimage." Surah 2197 (excerpt)

If (-aja) means 'arguing' as per (jjna) in Surah 4216, then there is a contradiction in the Quran as per Surah 2197.
The Quran contains no contradictions.
yes , this is right, i overlook this before. thank you
If we cannot offer a sacrifice to Allah for Hajj ? which we use to feed the poor and the well fed - we are to fast for 10 days Surah 2196
i think the word sacrifice is false- God he don't like a sacrifice (as made before) the best 'sacrifice' is to help others (sadaqa) or to make 'selfsacrifice' (saum). But i'm not sure if this HADY can point to the 'zakat' (the first fruits or a part from the crops) and if this is not possible we should saum.
Moses was appointed 30 nights with Allah and completed with 10 nights for 40 nights total Surah 251, 7142
?And We appointed with Moses thirty (thalthna) nights (laylatan) and We completed (wa-atmamnh&#257 them with ten, so the appointed time of his Lord was forty nights; and Moses said to his brother Aaron, 'Be my successor among my people, and put things right, and do not follow the way of the workers of corruption.'? Surah 7142
his is a good point and much times overlooked. i read here once an article from brother alkitab- who states the same fact and it seems correct for AND DO NOT FOLLOW THE WAY OF THE WORKERS OF CORRUPTION.

Allah is Guide. I submit my will to Him and Him alone.
The Quran will be able to guide a person - such as myself - who has only the Quran as a guide. I am not a Jew nor am I a son of Israel; the Torah and Gospel were not sent to my nation. I believe in them, but I do not follow them. I follow only the Quran.
But the Quran never states, that Islam is a new 'religion'- the Quran confirmed and partly corrected the previous scriptures in order to distinguish falsehood from the right

The events discussed, the setting and rising of Sirius, the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius, along with the Dog Days of Summer, can be evidenced and validated by anyone at anytime without need of special equipment; just our eyes.
yes and no- if you translate the shahr ramadan with hot/sorched/ lunation (the lunation before the hajj saison, which begin with the Hilal (the harvest?) this will be also much easy for all.

The fasting is in the month of Ramadan, which is more than 10 nights.
i think now, that ramadan is fard. and the fasting of the 10 days hajj is not fard.

You are welcome to doubt. Such is the nature of seeking Truth.
I too am seeking evidence to support or disprove what I believe, and as proven in this very thread when evidence is brought forth I will amend my beliefs to fall into line.
You are welcome to believe as you wish, though I do not agree with you. )

Peace.

Salam

[noshirk]

2196 And complete the HAJJ and the OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by SIYYAM or giving a charity or a NISK. If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.

Ouos!
forget to mention another remark for what is bold.
it is clealy said that who cannot make Hajj or OMRA have to make SIYYAM or charity or nisk depending on what his heath/illness status.
So Hajj is the same periode that period Saoum for other people.

Note also that Siyyam is not discarded totally by illness. That remark is difficult to make fit by siyyam of drink and eat theory. Note also how affliction of head is particularly enhanced and related to Hajj and Omra. That is easy to make fit by debate/listening/asking about word of God theory.

Peace

[raginggaijin]

Salaam raginggaijin

Quran is between us.
I am ready to reject my understanding if you show me quranic evidence.

---

Your mention of 548 is not clear for me. Do you reject all what is in Toraj and Injeej ? Rejecting torah is same as rejecting Desires of Jews ?

I do not follow the Torah or Injeel. I follow the Quran. Period. That's it.

"And We have sent down to thee the Book with the truth, confirming the Book that was before it, and assuring (muhayminan) it. So judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, to forsake the truth that has come to thee. To every one of you We have appointed a right way and an open road. If God had willed, He would have made you one nation; but that He may try you in what has come to you. So be you forward in good works; unto God shall you return, all together; and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance.
And judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, and beware of them lest they tempt thee away from any of what God has sent down to thee. But if they turn their backs, know that God desires only to smite them for some sin they have committed; surely, many men are ungodly.
Is it the judgment of pagandom then that they are seeking? Yet who is fairer in judgment than God, for a people having sure faith?" Surah 548-50

The Quran guards (muhayminan) the Truth that still remains in the previous Books, but no where in the Quran are we commanded to follow what they had between their hands.

Allah warns you twice in Surah 548-49 not to follow the desires of the families of the Book. He goes into great detail in warning in Surah 549; see the underlined, bolded, and italics.
Yet Allah even states those who return to the desires of the families of the Book, it's because He wants to punish them for something they committed...
...that scares me enough to judge very carefully everything a Christian or Jew says.

"But if they turn their backs, know that God desires only to smite them for some sin they have committed"...

The Quran will show them what they tried to hide and confirm what is still with them.

"People of the Book, now there has come to you Our Messenger, making clear to you many things you have been concealing of the Book, and effacing many things. There has come to you from God a light, and a Book Manifest." Surah 515

But the best guidance is The God's guidance, the best of it The Quran.
I am not a Jew nor a Christian. I am definitely not a son of Israel. Those Books were sent to them, not me.

Book of Moses given to Children of Israel Surah 172, 3223, 4053, 4516
Torah given to Children of Israel Surah 393, 5110, 616

We can go around and around about this matter until our appointed term. I will not change in this I follow only the Quran as guidance. End of discussion on that matter.

?We have not given them any Books to study, nor have We sent them before thee any warner.? Surah 3444

What God meant by "what was between your hands ?".

The Koine Greek Septuagint and the 'New Testament'.
The Synod of Hippo in 393 canonized the NT Canon and the Canon of the Septuagint; the Council of Carthage in 397 and 419 repeated it.

The Hebrew Torah was destroyed and scattered during the second destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. Look up Masorite Jews and their translating of the Septuagint from Koine Greek to Hebrew starting in the year 700 CE.

Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Farthest Mosque, is named in the Quran. Surah 171

"Glory be to Him, who carried His servant by night from the Sacred Mosque (almasjidi alharami) to the Further Mosque (almasjidi alaqsa) the precincts (hawlahu) of which We have blessed (barakna), that We might show him some of Our signs. He is the All-hearing, the All-seeing." Surah 171

It is the Temple in Jerusalem, destroyed twice for the disobedience of the Bani Israel. Surah 174-7, 1760, 9107

Concerning the 4 month, i don't understand what you are thinking
Let me ask some questions for eventual further discussion.
How many periods of Hajj there is for you ?
4 periods of one Month are not same as one period of 4 months.
When are they ?
How many times in a life have we to make Hojj (whatever it is) ?

I believe Hajj is annual. You do it every year.
Show me in the Quran where it says it is only once and I'll uphold it is a once-in-a-lifetime obligation.
When you cannot, then ask yourself why you believe what you believe if the Quran does not teach it.

The Hajj and the sacred months are not the same. Hajj occurs in the periods of sacred months. The Great Pilgrimage starts the holy months. Surah 92-5

"'Journey freely in the land for four months; and know that you cannot frustrate the will of God, and that God degrades the unbelievers.' A proclamation, from God and His Messenger, unto mankind on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage 'God is quit, and His Messenger, of the idolaters. So if you repent, that will be better for you; but if you turn your backs; know that you cannot frustrate the will of God. And give thou good tidings to the unbelievers of a painful chastisement; excepting those of the idolaters with whom you made covenant, then they failed. you naught neither lent support to any man against you. With them fulfil your covenant till their term; surely God loves the godfearing. Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate." Surah 92-5

Moses' contract of marriage = 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods Surah 2827

I would be grateful if you use no Hadith and no "our ancients said".
Only Words of God in our discussion.

I reject hadith. I have not quoted hadith in anything I've shared. Yet understand I hold all who I speak to in the same standards.

So don't bring the Bible. It has been corrupted by the additions of man.
If it contains contradictions or errors, it does not come from Allah. Surah 482, 1965, 2052

That criteria alone should be warning enough. Allah does not make mistakes, nor does He forget.

"What, do they not ponder the Quran? If it had been from other than The God surely they would have found in it many a contradiction." Surah 482

I believe in the Torah and Injeel; it was in reading the entire Bible that Allah led me from Trinitarian belief to monotheism. The Truth is still within them, amid the numerous errors, contradictions, and lapses of memory.
But it was in the Quran that He showed me a pure, error-free guidance sent to my nation. A Book that has a description and explanation for everything I need to serve our Creator.

Allah even makes it clear they tampered with the previous Books and corrupted it, making it into pages and hiding it.

"They measured not God with His true measure when they said, 'God has not sent down aught on any mortal.' Say 'Who sent down the Book that Moses brought as a light and a guidance to men? YOU PUT IT INTO PARCHMENTS, revealing them, and hiding much; and you were taught that you knew not, you and your fathers.' Say 'God.' Then leave them alone, playing their game of plunging." Surah 691

Altering the word Surah 275, 279, 378, 446, 514-15, 7162

What is the BEST guidance?

"And believe not except to who follows your conduct. Say, ?Surely, the guidance is The God?s guidance. That is given a one like of what was given to you, or contend they with your Lord?? Say, ?Surely, the bounty is in The God?s hands. He gives it to to whom He wills, and The God is Encompassing, Knowing.?" Surah 373

Out of the Torah, the Injeel, and the Quran, which of these three is the BEST guidance?

"And follow best (asana) of what has been sent down to you from your Lord, ere the chastisement comes upon you suddenly while you are unaware." Surah 3955

"That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Even so God strikes their similitudes for men." Surah 473

---

2196 And complete the HAJJ and the OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by SIYYAM or giving a charity or a NISK. If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.

919 Have you made the watering of the HAJJ and the IMARA of the MASJID HARAM the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and he strives in the cause of God? They are not the same with God. And God does not guide the wicked people.

I replaced in traduction contested words by their original word.
At first sight, HAJJ, OMRA and SAoum are related. IAATAMARA is same Root than OMRA and there is something called IAATAMA to HAJJ wich seems to indicate, at least, that they are occuring same time.
We See also that Who make OMRA have to make something in addition relative to who make Hajj.
We see also that who make Omra has to give "offering" and if he cannot, he have to to 10 days of saoum.
We see also that those whose family in not near Masjid Haram can delay 7 of the 10 days.

I have difficulties with your English, so if I misunderstand you I apologize.

As you can see in the translation I give below, (al-um'rata) is 'the habitation'. The use of the root word is found in the Quran to denote a period of lifespan (Surah 1016, 1670, 2144, 225, 2618, 2845, 3511), habitation (Surah 919, 524), construction/repairing (Surah 917-18, 309) and living (Surah 296, 3511, 3537, 366.

People lived in Masjid al-Haram; their homes and families were there and the visitors lived there during their stay.

2196 And fulfill the Pilgrimage and the habitation to The God; and if detained then whatever is easier of the offering. And shave not your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Then whoever is among you is sick or thereby a harm from his head, then a ransom from fasting or charity or sacrifice. Then when you are trusting, then whoever enjoys in the habitation to the Pilgrimage, then whatever is easier of the offering. Then whoever finds not, then a fast of three days in the Pilgrimage and seven when you return. This is ten complete. That is for those whose families are not approaching the Masjid al-Haram. And beware The God and know that The God is severe of the retribution.
2197 The Pilgrimage is of months determined; so whoever ordains therein the Pilgrimage then no copulation and no defiance and no disputing in the Pilgrimage. And what you do from best, The God knows it. And take provision; so surely best of the provision is the guarding. And beware me, O folk of the understanding.

From 9-19; we see that who Make Imara is not same level for God than who strives ....
It is logical from context of 9-19 to suppose that who strives.... is the Hajj. However you can reject it and suppose that who make Hajj is not mentionned (forgetten) in 9-19.
However, it is difficult to contest that Who make Omra is quite same level than who is delevring drink to the Hajj.

If it's logical it will be supported by evidence. Yet even by your interpretation of (umra) it is not supported by the evidence shown.

You wrote
"919 Have you made the watering of the HAJJ and the IMARA of the MASJID HARAM the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and he strives in the cause of God? They are not the same with God. And God does not guide the wicked people."

What is not the same as belief in God and the Last Day and striving in the cause of God? The water of the Hajj and the 'Imara' of the Masjid al-Haram. They are not exclusive. Both are being 'watered'; the people who are pilgrims and the people who inhabit Masjid al-Haram.

"Do you make (ajaaltum) bowl (siqyata) of the pilgrim (l-ji) and the inhabitant (waimrata) of the Masjid al-Haram (l-masjidi l-armi) like whom (kaman..." (excerpt Surah 919)

The bowl (used also in Surah 1270) is possessed of the person (l-ji). There is not (l-siqyata) as is found in Surah 1270, so to say 'the watering of...' isn't upholding the Arabic revelation. So already an issue arises in interpretation.

Yet these two groups of people - those who assist the pilgrims and those who live in/around Masjid al-Haram are not like those who serve Allah, believing in Him and the Last Day and strive doing His duties that He asks of us (Surah 2177).

Now, why who make only omra, and cannot offer something (probably because he is poor) have to make SIYYAM.

Be careful. What you just did is conjecture - making guesses. Allah tells us who is fasting in the Quran and why to fast in the ayat you posted.

Let's look again at the Surah 2196. This is my translation

2196 And fulfill the Pilgrimage and the habitation to The God; and if detained then whatever is easier of the offering. And shave not your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Then whoever is among you is sick or thereby a harm from his head, then a ransom from fasting or charity or sacrifice. Then when you are trusting, then whoever enjoys in the habitation to the Pilgrimage, then whatever is easier of the offering. Then whoever finds not, then a fast of three days in the Pilgrimage and seven when you return. This is ten complete. That is for those whose families are not approaching the Masjid al-Haram. And beware The God and know that The God is severe of the retribution.

This is your translation
2196 And complete the HAJJ and the OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by SIYYAM or giving a charity or a NISK. If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.

Notice what is bolded? The person who fasts will fast for 3 days during Hajj, then 7 when they return home. Allah even states this is for those whose families are not in/near Masjid al-Haram. Quoting your translation

"...this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM." (excerpt Surah 2196)
The word you translated as 'near' is (ir&#299 in the Arabic revelation.
It is used as approach (hadara) (Surah 2133, 2180, 48, 418, 5106, 2398, 4629), brought (ahdarat) (Surah 4128, 1968, 8114), presented (iran) (Surah 1849), immediate (iratan) (Surah 2282), and present (Surah 7163).

In both translations it denotes location.

And using your translation, Allah is quite clear on why a person fasts during Hajj
"but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM".

As the person does not have a family who is 'near' Masjid al-Haram, they must find a sacrifice within the area. If they cannot, then they fast.

Now you wrote "If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable"

You brought words to support your interpretation. Let's bring the words that complete the sentence you brought and see if that's what is in the Arabic revelation.

"Then when (fa-idh&#257 you are 'secure' (amintum) then whoever (faman) enjoys (tamattaa) in the habitation (bil-um'rati) to (il&#257 the Hajj (l-aji) then what (fam&#257 is easier (is'taysara) of (mina) the offering (l-hadyi)" (excerpt Surah 2196

You left out (bil-um'rati) completely. This changes your theory completely, as (l-um'rati) can be enjoyed until the Hajj; those who enjoy in (l-um'rati) are those who live there. Those who do not have family approaching Masjid al-Haram.

Remember provision was brought to Masjid al-Haram. Surah 1437, 2857

"Our Lord, I have made some of my seed to dwell in a valley (biwadin) where is no sown land by Thy Sacred House (baytika almuharrami); Our Lord, let them perform the prayer, and make hearts of men yearn towards them, and provide them with fruits; haply they will be thankful." Surah 1437

"They say, 'Should we follow the guidance with thee, we shall be snatched from our land.' Have We not established for them a sanctuary secure, to which are collected the fruits of everything, as a provision from Us? But most of them know not." Surah 2857

You can't hunt while on Hajj. Surah 595

Is it to remember that they are poor ? That is no sense and then Siyyam has no link to eat and drink.

But it does.
Hajj is a time of provision; the animals sacrificed are to be used to feed the poor and the content.

"And the beasts of sacrifice -- We have appointed them for you as among God's waymarks; therein is good for you. So mention God's Name over them, standing in ranks then, when their flanks collapse, eat of them and feed the beggar and the suppliant. So We have subjected them to you; haply you will be thankful." Surah 2236

The Kaaba is the place of sacrifice Surah 595-97, 2233
Sacrifice (nusukin) Surah 2196, 6162, 2234

If you cannot bring a sacrifice, you fast.
Why would you take part in the provision brought to Masjid al-Haram for the entire time when you are unable to fulfill your obligation?

While who made Omra are doing Siyyam, what are supposed to do Muslims who stayed at home ?

You fast for 10 days. Surah 2196

Why Who make Omra has to make something more ?

Your translation isn't complete. Try again.

Why God is insisting on fact that 3+7 complete the 10 days ?

Allah does not change nor does He change His course. Surah 6124, 6115, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3030, 3362, 4815, 4823, 673-4
If He made the previous prophets do this, then all will do it.

"the wont of those We sent before thee of Our Messengers; thou wilt find no change to Our wont." Surah 1777

Revealed as revealed to other Prophets (pbut) Surah 287, 2253, 26192-194, 4163, 4171, 5110, 1602, 16102, 4143, 4252, 5822

"Naught is said to thee but what already was said to the Messengers before thee. Surely thy Lord is a Lord of forgiveness and of painful retribution." Surah 4143

Did Allah appoint 30 nights and 10 days with Moses? Yes. Surah 7142
If Allah does not change His way, would He not appoint the same to Ahmad? It is evidenced Moses had knowledge of the Hajj (hijajin) before he was given the Book from Allah. Surah 2827
Do we have 30 nights of Ramadan? Yes. Surah 2185
Do we complete with 10 of Hajj? Yes. Surah 2196

Why God use for Hajj a word that means argue/argument ?

Does it mean argue or is that the translation given in the translation you uphold?
Are there other meanings it could be when we bring the entire Quran to bear in description?

People challenge your opinions in a debate.
People challenge each other in a fight against them.

Based on the descriptions given in the entire Quran, what can we see given the examples?

Does not Allah challenge us, telling us to vie with one another in good deeds? Surah 2148, 3133
Is not the Hajj a time to challenge ourselves with actions that take us out of our comfort zone? Surah 397
To travel a long distance or spend a sum we are not accustomed to, showing our gratitude to our Lord? Surah 52, 2232, 2234, 2236, 2267

Place the word 'challenge' in every instance of (hajj) and see where that takes you in understanding.

Why God use for Omra a word that means to fill/charge a place (with his body) ?

He doesn't, as shown above. (Unless I'm misunderstanding your English. If so, I apologize.)

Based quite only these two verses, i can deduce
saoum in 10 days.
Hajj is debator who argue in name of God.
Who make Omra is there to ask questions and listen. He is not dispensed from Siyyam.
Who make neither Hajj neither Omra has to make classical Siyyam

Based upon your incorrect translation that removes words from the Arabic revelation, no doubt you do believe that...

I don't lift one ayat out and based my entire belief upon it. I bring the entire Quran as a description and explanation.

Now if saoum is 10 days then chahr ramadan is not a 30 day period.

Where does it state Hajj occurs during Ramadan?
Answer It does not. Your argument falls apart when the next ayat - Surah 2197 - is brought to bear showing the plurality of the months

2197 The Pilgrimage is of months determined; so whoever ordains therein the Pilgrimage then no copulation and no defiance and no disputing in the Pilgrimage. And what you do from best, The God knows it. And take provision; so surely best of the provision is the guarding. And beware me, O folk of the understanding.

Arabic
The Pilgrimage (al-aju) of months(ashhurun) determined/known (malmtun)...

Ramadan is one (1) month. Singular.
The sacred months are four (4) months. Plural.

Depending on your response on the 4 months, we will try to see what all this people are supposed to do during the "Hajj periods".

To be blunt I know exactly what to do. The Quran gives clear description of what to do. )

Hope, if there is further discussion, you will not repeat the classical claim "i tell you the truth and you are free to follow your own wishes".
This claim is the claim of who pretend to be my Rabb.

I tell you what I believe. What you are to do now is to confirm the Truth.
Trust those who seek the Truth. Doubt those who say they found it.

I will point out early in this conversation in this thread, I posted my discussion notes and asked others to confirm it or disprove it. If I was 'telling you the truth', I wouldn't be asking for confirmation or for others to look into it.

I will also note that between you and I, I do not cover up the Truth by hiding words from the Arabic revelation. /
I will leave that between you and Him to discuss.

I truly do not care what you do or what you believe. I won't be asked what you do or did. I am only responsible for myself.

I thank Allah for providing time to go over His signs again. It is a good exercise, and one that helps me to ensure I am following only what He revealed.

I love Allah. )
Power is due to Him alone.

I look forward to any other discussions brought by those who are checking what I've brought previously.

Peace.

[noshirk]

Salaam raginggaijin

For time reason, i cannot respond to all your points now. But be sure, i'll be back.
Just for note, english is my third language after arabic and french. So i can do mistakes in english

OK. Let's suppose that i am a lost guy who understand nothing. No problem for me.

It is a good exercise, and one that helps me to ensure I am following only what He revealed

OK. You are sure.

Now when i follow your verses i don't see what you see.
For example, when i follow

It is the Temple in Jerusalem, destroyed twice for the disobedience of the Bani Israel. Surah 174-7, 1760, 9107

i didn't succeed to see Jerusalem there.
i cannot see even temple of jerusalem in almasjidi alaqsa. According to history, it seems also that it would have been very difficult to Muhammad to see there a temple. The temple was already destructed and the actual masjid al aqsa was not yet built. So i didnt understand what Muhammad could have visited there.

Since i have a hijab that empeach me to understand Quran and since i cannot empeach my devil to hide me some words, i ask your help to see the truth.
Since we don't see same thing in verses, please explain to me, in simple raginggaijin words.

Please answer these clear questions
1 is Hajj a periode of 4 months of 30 days, so only one hajj of 120 days, or is there 4 distinct Hajj of 10 days each during 4 consecutives months, or truth is elsewhere. ?
2- How many times we have to do Hajj in our life ?
3- Is Shar ramadan in the end or at beginning and how many times we have to do siyyam (all kinds) in a year and how long each period is?

4- What are we exactly supposed to do during Hajj (pilgrimnage ??? ) according to quran ? Is it in Mecca or in Jesusalem or elsewhere ?
5 -What are we supposed to do during Siyyam according to quran ?

Please! Simple raginggaijin words. We will see verses later.

Peace

[Noon_waalqalami]

Peace, a few comments ...

Moses' contract of marriage = 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods Surah 2827

2827 said I indeed I want that marry you any/one my daughters these two on that you work for me eight ijajin (flock migrations, 2 per year to from pastoral lands 4 years total) so if you complete ten for so from near you (i.e. up to you) and not I want that make difficult upon you you will find me if willed The God from the righteous

1247 said you will plant seven snyn/seasons (seeding) as usual so what you harvest so leave it in its ears except little from what you eat 1248 furthermore comes from after that seven severe eat/consume what you advanced for them except little from what you stored 1249 furthermore comes from after that Aam/year in it will be given succor/relief (i.e. flood returns) the humankind and in it they will press

Address was to Egyptians which their year was divided into three seasons 4x30-day months or 120 days

1. Akhet - the inundation (June-Sept) Flooding Season. No farming was done at this time.
2. Peret (Oct-Feb) Growing Season. Floodwaters receded; fertile soil ploughed and seeded.
3. Shemu (March-May) The Harvesting Season.

1825 and they stayed in their cave three hundred snyn/seasons and increase nine for

309 x 12 lunar months = 299.799498 solar years
309 x 4 lunar months (seasons) = 99.9331659 years = 36500 days
300 x 12 lunar months + (9 solar years) = 300.067473 solar years

The above are possible conjectures answered in the next verse?

1826 say The God knows in what they remained...

296 and you will find them most greedy the humankind on life and from the those who associating partners loves one of them if is granted life thousand snh/path (multiple/iteration i.e. 1,000 lifetimes) and not it remove him from the punishment that is granted life and The God Seer in what they doing

2914 and surely We sent Noah to his folk so he stayed among them thousand snh/path (multiple/iteration 1000 or numerous time) except fifty Aama/year for so seized them the flood and they unjust

[mirjamnur]

Salam
i will not interrupt the discussion again- so or so ignored whatever
peace for all the the believers

[raginggaijin]

OK. Let's suppose that i am a lost guy who understand nothing. No problem for me.

OK. You are sure.

Now when i follow your verses i don't see what you see.
For example, when i followi didn't succeed to see Jerusalem there.
i cannot see even temple of jerusalem in almasjidi alaqsa. According to history,

Peace,

And this is where I caution you Who is Knowing, Seer?
When Allah gives a description, do you use history to make it fit or use the Quran to guide you to where it is?

If Allah states the precincts were blessed, that's the area. The Temple ruins have been there since it was destroyed the second time.

it seems also that it would have been very difficult to Muhammad to see there a temple. The temple was already destructed and the actual masjid al aqsa was not yet built. So i didnt understand what Muhammad could have visited there.

You told me you didn't want to use hadith.
So why are you upholding the word of man over the Quran?

If Allah names 'Masjid al-Aqsa' in the Quran in the 600s CE, why are you saying it wasn't there?
Does the Arabic revelation say 'Masjid al-Aqsa'? Yes or no.

Yes. It does.
So again, why are you upholding the word of man over the Quran by saying it was not there yet?

Since i have a hijab that empeach me to understand Quran and since i cannot empeach my devil to hide me some words, i ask your help to see the truth.
Since we don't see same thing in verses, please explain to me, in simple raginggaijin words.

You state you are veiled from the Truth.
Hijab (veil/screen/curtain) Surah 746, 1745, 1917, 3353, 3832, 415, 4251

How do you expect me to guide you if Allah covers you from understanding? I am not a guide nor a protector. Allah is your Guide.
Honestly, you have the Arabic revelation, you can see Masjid al-Aqsa named in the Quran, but you don't believe it was built yet even after it has been pointed out to you.
Have you gone out into the world to see how was the end of those who rejected, like Allah tells you to?

"Divers institutions have passed away before you; journey in the land, and behold how was the end of those that cried lies. Surah 3137

Have the Jews rejected Allah or do they stand firm with Him?
What happened to them at the first and second Temple destruction?
Does Allah tell us about this in the Quran? (Yes, He does. D)

Instead of asking me, prostrate in prayer and ask Allah to explain it to you. Don't associate partners with Allah.

Please answer these clear questions
1 is Hajj a periode of 4 months of 30 days, so only one hajj of 120 days, or is there 4 distinct Hajj of 10 days each during 4 consecutives months, or truth is elsewhere. ?
2- How many times we have to do Hajj in our life ?
3- Is Shar ramadan in the end or at beginning and how many times we have to do siyyam (all kinds) in a year and how long each period is?

4- What are we exactly supposed to do during Hajj (pilgrimnage ??? ) according to quran ? Is it in Mecca or in Jesusalem or elsewhere ?
5 -What are we supposed to do during Siyyam according to quran ?

Please! Simple raginggaijin words. We will see verses later.

Peace

Simple words. Now with images!

"Proof Hajj"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=i21uxpnjyXg

"Proof Qiblah"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhq1BDBG3Zs

Peace.

[raginggaijin]

Peace, a few comments ...

2827 said I indeed I want that marry you any/one my daughters these two on that you work for me eight ijajin (flock migrations, 2 per year to from pastoral lands 4 years total) so if you complete ten for so from near you (i.e. up to you) and not I want that make difficult upon you you will find me if willed The God from the righteous

Interesting translation.
Can you show where the Quran upholds these are flock migrations and not the annual Hajj? The Quran contains a description for everything; I am sure you can show me where this word is used for this again, as Allah turns about the signs for those who study.

Ayats from the Quran would be sufficient. Thanks.

1247 said you will plant seven snyn/seasons (seeding) as usual so what you harvest so leave it in its ears except little from what you eat 1248 furthermore comes from after that seven severe eat/consume what you advanced for them except little from what you stored 1249 furthermore comes from after that Aam/year in it will be given succor/relief (i.e. flood returns) the humankind and in it they will press

Address was to Egyptians which their year was divided into three seasons 4x30-day months or 120 days

1. Akhet - the inundation (June-Sept) Flooding Season. No farming was done at this time.
2. Peret (Oct-Feb) Growing Season. Floodwaters receded; fertile soil ploughed and seeded.
3. Shemu (March-May) The Harvesting Season.

Correct.
Each 'season' is a 4 months.
Also note the 5 day period at the end of their seasonal year to keep in line with their civil calendar. This was noted in the initial, which is reposted here for clarity

The Egyptian calendar has an additional 5 days called the small (nasie) month, which wasn't a month but 5 days of festivities before the New Year, when Sirius' helical rising occurred and the Nile river flooded Egypt.

"'Your tryst shall be upon the days of the Adornment (yawmu alzzeenati).' said Moses. 'Let the people be mustered at the high noon.'" Surah 2059

I'm interested in the information for where you got the months you posted. Could you share a link or point me in the direction of this source?
Especially since the Dog Days of Summer - the hottest period of the Summer season and associated with the setting of Sirius - occur during the time you have as Inundation.

I have

1. Akhet - the inundation (Aug-Nov) Flooding Season. No farming was done at this time.
2. Peret (Dec-Mar) Growing Season. Floodwaters receded; fertile soil ploughed and seeded.
3. Shemu (Apr-Jul) The Harvesting Season.

1825 and they stayed in their cave three hundred snyn/seasons and increase nine for

309 x 12 lunar months = 299.799498 solar years
309 x 4 lunar months (seasons) = 99.9331659 years = 36500 days
300 x 12 lunar months + (9 solar years) = 300.067473 solar years

So you are upholding it was a complete lunar year and not individual lunations?

You say the companions of the Cave were asleep for 300 civil years/309 lunar years and not 25 civil years?
Even if it is conjecture, am I understanding you correctly?

I interpret it as individual lunations
I run into an issue in translating The word ?year? is written two different ways in the Quran ?Sanat? (&#1577 and ??Aam? (&#1605.

Season (sanatin) Surah 296, 526, 2247, 2914, 325, 4615, 704
Season (sinna) Surah 7130, 105, 1242, 1247, 1712, 1811, 1825, 23112, 2618, 26205, 304

Moon stages Surah 3639
Consecrated (ohilla) Surah 2173, 53, 6145, 16115
The phases Surah 2189

2189 They ask you about the phases. Say, ?They are His appointments for the men and the Pilgrimage.? And it is not the righteousness in that you approach the houses from their backs, but the righteousness is who bewares. And approach the houses from their entrances and beware The God so that you may succeed.

The seasons are known based on the positions and displays of the sun and the moon.
The sun Vernal Equinox, Summer Solstice, Autumnal Equinox, Winter Solstice.
The moon Blue Moon, Harvest Moon, Wet and Dry Moon, Absent New/Full Moons, Perigee and Apogee Moons.

A Wet Moon is when the horns of the Crescent Moon point up at an angle, away from the horizon. It appears this way during the Summertime in the Northern Hemisphere.
A Dry Moon is when the horns of the Crescent Moon point to the side.
It appears this way during the Wintertime in the Northern Hemisphere.

Pic http//www.wtv-zone.com/rosebuds/potpourri/pics/crescent-moon-path.gif

1712 And We made the night and the day two signs. Then we eliminate the sign of the night, and We made the sign of the day visible, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know count of the seasons (l-sinna), and the measure. And every thing We have detailed explanation.

105 He is the One who made the sun a light and the moon shining and determined for it stages, that you may know count of the seasons (l-sinna) and the measure. Not created The God that except in truth. He explains the signs to knowing people.

Lightning flash (sana) Surah 2443

"And they tarried in the Cave three hundred years, and to that they added nine more." Surah 1825

The heliacal rising of Sothis returned to the same point in the calendar every 1460 years (a period called the Sothic cycle). The difference between a seasonal year and a civil year was therefore 365 days in 1460 years, or one day in four years. Similarly, the Egyptians were aware that 309 lunations nearly equaled 9125 days, or 25 Egyptian years, which was later used in the construction of a secondary lunar calendar that did not depend on observations.

1247 He said, ?You will sow seven (sabAAa) seasons (sineena), as usual, and what you harvest so leave it in its ears except a little from which you eat.
1248 Then comes from after that seven severe; consume what you advanced for them, except a little of what you store. Then comes from after that a year (AAamun); in it will be given rain of the men, and in it will pour.

Three (3) recitals = 3 months Surah 2228
Menstruation lasts approximately 28 days. In a large study of more than 30,000 cycles from more than 2300 women showed that the mean cycle length was 29.1 with a standard deviation of 7.5 days and a 95% prediction interval of between 15 and 45 days.

There are 12 months in a year Surah 936

Hajj is annual. Surah 2196-197
You can't do Hajj twice a year.
8 pilgrimages (hijajin) = 8 years Surah 2827

Bearing and weaning is 30 months (thalathoona shahran) Surah 4615
Weaning is 2 years (AAamayni) Surah 3114
A child starts using the umbilical cord after 12-13 weeks from fertilization. 1 year (amin) is 12 months.
Middle age is 40 years (arbaAAeena sanatan) Surah 4615

Solar year (amin) Surah 2259, 928, 937, 9126, 1249, 2914, 3114

Based off of what I understand, our civil year is a solar year, with the sun and moon used to determine what season it is and when events like Hajj are to take place.
Using the rising and setting of Sirius, I believe the month to fast in is what my nation calls 'May'. The holy months kept sacred by our Creator are consecutive, and do not fall on the months when people were in caravan for trade; Winter and Summer. So the 4 months would occur in Spring August - November.

All of this was posted at the beginning, but I am reposting it now for clarity.

The above are possible conjectures answered in the next verse?

1826 say The God knows in what they remained...

296 and you will find them most greedy the humankind on life and from the those who associating partners loves one of them if is granted life thousand snh/path (multiple/iteration i.e. 1,000 lifetimes) and not it remove him from the punishment that is granted life and The God Seer in what they doing

2914 and surely We sent Noah to his folk so he stayed among them thousand snh/path (multiple/iteration 1000 or numerous time) except fifty Aama/year for so seized them the flood and they unjust

And am I understanding you to say there are men who want to live 1000 civil years, and that Noah lived among his people for 950 years?
Thanks for the clarification.

Peace.