What happens to a Muslim who does not pray?

StopS

My answer to your question is If a boy did not complete his homework is punished for the same and another boy slaps his teacher and also got punished. Do you think, they get the same punishment? I say NO.

My answer is I don't know. I also don't know of any other or more nuanced options in the Koran other than heaven as place-holder for reward and hell as place-holder for punishment. It is digital to me.

Reference from alQuraan is needed.

I felt it being inappropriate showing an expert in the Koran a particular sentence. Also, it is largely irrelevant and unimportant.

If so, you are not fulfilling the purpose of being created, so you will be punished accordingly. Even if you keep a dog, you expects him to behave as you want .

This is highly cryptic and totally vague I am sure you can do better. What is the "purpose" and what is "according"?

Wrong! A dog is not a robot and has a mind of its own. It has a personality. Yes, I get angry if I come home and he's chewed up my shoe. But he's an animal and I punish him and then forget about it.
Would I punish him if I had known in advance he would chew my shoe? No! Because if I had known in advance I should have removed my shoe. If I don't, it is my own fault and punishing the dog in spite of my knowledge is showing my own weakness, inconsistency and flawed personality.

Red I disagree, alQuraan is not vague nor ambiguous, but people are. They follow what other humans have to say instead of following what their Creator asked them for. It is their problem that they mix the Truth with falsehood and get confuse about their Lord and His word.

It took years for you to read and write English words, how can you expect to understand the word of God in one shot!

Come on, try and be realistic, not dogmatic. I don't know of a single sentence which cannot be interpreted in at least 2 ways. Then you have completely nonsensical parts. You are not able to tell me what ALM or HM means, so why do you even propose realistically that the Koran is not vague and ambiguous?

This is your logic, but

How is my logics different from other logics? Are there different versions of logics?

alQuraan talks about the Truth which is also logical.

How so? What is the truth the Koran mentions? And what makes it the truth? What about "HM" is the truth?

For example, what about 113 is there anything logical or true?

1131 I seek refuge in the Lord of Daybreak
1132 From the evil of that which He created;
1133 From the evil of the darkness when it is intense,
1134 And from the evil of malignant witchcraft,
1135 And from the evil of the envier when he envieth.

Just look at this! Look at the contents and tell me please what about this evil and witchcraft is true, logical and real? What about "the envier when he envieth" is logical and true?

Don't forget that Allah is not only the Creator of believers, so forgiving one for a sin and punishing another for the same sin is not God.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Are you saying that a Muslim, a Christian and a Pagan all receive the same identical punishment for something like robbing a bank?

If a Muslim, a Christian and a Pagan go and rob a bank and afterwards ask to be forgiven, do all receive the same treatment?

Is my understanding of the Koran correct in that non-believers like me will invariably go to hell?

If yes, will I be joined at some stage by a believing Muslim who has contravened against what you called in the beginning the "purpose of being created"?

StopS

Although the question might be interesting, we can never know the answer!
First of all, because we shall probably know it "on the other side" and nobody never returned from the Hereafter to tell us, and secondly, because it is ridiculous to guess what God might think, because we can never know that, no matter how hard we try.

I am afraid you are 100% right. But I think it's useful to discuss it and then come to this conclusion rather than taking a fatalistic stance and rolling over.

sushi1992

It's a pity you don't answer my questions.

The article is a nice summary and show the common mistake "The big bang only accounts for the creation of the physical universe, it does not account for where all that energy came from in the first place."

The Big Bang is a model, an attempt at explaining how something happened and when. There is no why. There is no question what was "before" that moment and what the origin of the matter and energy was.

But this is off-topic and of no consequence to anyone when it comes to belief.

Ive been trying to answer your questions to the best of my ability but I can't tell you why everything can't be made out of nothingness because there is no logic to it. There was a documentary on bbc4 about the possibilities of what there was before time and space and it pointed to something as they described was always there. I can't tell you why there doesn't have to be a creator for a creation because I can't make sense of that concept, hence why I didn't answer it.

StopS

Ive been trying to answer your questions to the best of my ability but I can't tell you why everything can't be made out of nothingness because there is no logic to it. There was a documentary on bbc4 about the possibilities of what there was before time and space and it pointed to something as they described was always there. I can't tell you why there doesn't have to be a creator for a creation because I can't make sense of that concept, hence why I didn't answer it.

I was merely asking why you believe what you said.

sushi1992

I was merely asking why you believe what you said.

Simply i find no two ways about it. The simple answer is i do not believe nothingness created us. It is obvious if nothing is in a state of unchangingness then nothing will happen. Clearly something changed, or some process was started from this 'nothingness' as you might think of it, or from the creator as i might call it - something which is independent of time and space and creation itself.

StopS

Simply i find no two ways about it. The simple answer is i do not believe nothingness created us. It is obvious if nothing is in a state of unchangingness then nothing will happen. Clearly something changed, or some process was started from this 'nothingness' as you might think of it, or from the creator as i might call it - something which is independent of time and space and creation itself.

So who do you think believes "nothingness created" us?

Why is it obvious?
What changed so clearly?
Exactly! Why do you think it was "independent of time and space"?

sushi1992

So who do you think believes "nothingness created" us?

Why is it obvious?
What changed so clearly?
Exactly! Why do you think it was "independent of time and space"?

Something wanted this whole universe to be. Something thought to create all of this. It is independent of time and space because it isn't within our realm, dimensions or anything else. Whatever it is (the creator) is everywhere within this universe but is also not effected by the laws that it created itself. Why do i think it's obvious? I don't know how to answer you... it's just the way i think. Something was independent of time and space. Something created a process for all of this to happen. It's too much of a coincidence. It's like how our planets orbit, the number of gravity, mathematical theorems, etc etc. I can go on. It's too much of a coincidence to say that some randomness made this all happen in perfect measurements. What do you reckon it was then? I wasn't saying you call it "nothingness", i just don't currently know what you believe it is, hence why i'm asking ).

Tigress

Something wanted this whole universe to be. Something thought to create all of this. It is independent of time and space because it isn't within our realm, dimensions or anything else. Whatever it is (the creator) is everywhere within this universe but is also not effected by the laws that it created itself. Why do i think it's obvious? I don't know how to answer you... it's just the way i think. Something was independent of time and space. Something created a process for all of this to happen. It's too much of a coincidence. It's like how our planets orbit, the number of gravity, mathematical theorems, etc etc. I can go on. It's too much of a coincidence to say that some randomness made this all happen in perfect measurements. What do you reckon it was then? I wasn't saying you call it "nothingness", i just don't currently know what you believe it is, hence why i'm asking ).

I know what you are saying. I am a biology major and if I was even the smallest bit in doubt about a God before, I definitely wasn't after studying botany, human physio, genetics...all of that. how does a seed know HOW to grow into a tree? it has to be intelligent design...not just random design or evolutionary design...even the inner workings of our bodies...how does homeostasis maintain itself? if our body temp is too hot, we die, if it is too cold, we die, if our pH is too high or low, we die---there are millions of synapses and connnections in our brain..and surely if one connection didn't fire off a neural impulse to tell us to breathe or do this or do that, we would die...everything is too perfectly balanced to be a mere mishap, or process of evolutionary elimination. especially when you look at the universe as you said ...too far from the sun we are a ball of ice...too close to the sun we are a ball of smoke lol, I mean its crazy. I love astronomy so much I wish I would've majored in it...I need to get a high powered telescope one of these days.

sushi1992

I know what you are saying. I am a biology major and if I was even the smallest bit in doubt about a God before, I definitely wasn't after studying botany, human physio, genetics...all of that. how does a seed know HOW to grow into a tree? it has to be intelligent design...not just random design or evolutionary design...even the inner workings of our bodies...how does homeostasis maintain itself? if our body temp is too hot, we die, if it is too cold, we die, if our pH is too high or low, we die---there are millions of synapses and connnections in our brain..and surely if one connection didn't fire off a neural impulse to tell us to breathe or do this or do that, we would die...everything is too perfectly balanced to be a mere mishap, or process of evolutionary elimination. especially when you look at the universe as you said ...too far from the sun we are a ball of ice...too close to the sun we are a ball of smoke lol, I mean its crazy. I love astronomy so much I wish I would've majored in it...I need to get a high powered telescope one of these days.

Selam ),

You should buy a telescope ). I recently bought one and its wicked. Although currently I fail at seeing other planets even zomming into the moon is incredible for me xD. And thats exactly my point. Everything is too... good. I was even talking to my dad about how the moon came about and how it is essential to our lives. A few cms out of sync because of its circular velocity in its orbit slowly slowly pull it away would cause many countries to be flooded under. We even sleep and people still don't 100% know why.. I just think it's too much of a coincidence by a long shot.

peace

StopS

Something wanted this whole universe to be. Something thought to create all of this.

You're bringing up the typical "God of the Gaps" argument. You can't handle the "I don't know" and quickly plug this with your god. As do other people with their belief in their particular god. But it is not real and not realistic.

It is independent of time and space because it isn't within our realm, dimensions or anything else. Whatever it is (the creator) is everywhere within this universe but is also not effected by the laws that it created itself. Why do i think it's obvious? I don't know how to answer you... it's just the way i think. Something was independent of time and space. Something created a process for all of this to happen. It's too much of a coincidence. It's like how our planets orbit, the number of gravity, mathematical theorems, etc etc. I can go on. It's too much of a coincidence to say that some randomness made this all happen in perfect measurements. What do you reckon it was then? I wasn't saying you call it "nothingness", i just don't currently know what you believe it is, hence why i'm asking ).

So then why would a being create a galaxy and another and another and millions and millions more - then wait 10 billion years and then do what was the plan and create some tiny planet in a remote galaxy which will collide with another galaxy?

The only possible answer is I don't know.

StopS

I know what you are saying. I am a biology major and if I was even the smallest bit in doubt about a God before, I definitely wasn't after studying botany, human physio, genetics...all of that. how does a seed know HOW to grow into a tree? it has to be intelligent design...not just random design or evolutionary design...even the inner workings of our bodies...how does homeostasis maintain itself? if our body temp is too hot, we die, if it is too cold, we die, if our pH is too high or low, we die---there are millions of synapses and connnections in our brain..and surely if one connection didn't fire off a neural impulse to tell us to breathe or do this or do that, we would die...everything is too perfectly balanced to be a mere mishap, or process of evolutionary elimination. especially when you look at the universe as you said ...too far from the sun we are a ball of ice...too close to the sun we are a ball of smoke lol, I mean its crazy. I love astronomy so much I wish I would've majored in it...I need to get a high powered telescope one of these days.

Are you falling for the false probability arguments some apologists throw out to impress people, simply using large and fabricated numbers?

You are presenting 2 typical cases

the pavement is fine-tuned for life. Because a plant manages to grow out of a crack.
I don't understand it, therefore god.

Every time my artificial hip joint aches, I adjust my hearing and the pacemaker, I have a hole in my tooth, a muscle twitches uncontrollably, I have a headache and I bite my tongue or cheek by mistake I have to smile and think of the "Intelligent Design" nonsense.

sushi1992

You're bringing up the typical "God of the Gaps" argument. You can't handle the "I don't know" and quickly plug this with your god. As do other people with their belief in their particular god. But it is not real and not realistic.

So then why would a being create a galaxy and another and another and millions and millions more - then wait 10 billion years and then do what was the plan and create some tiny planet in a remote galaxy which will collide with another galaxy?

The only possible answer is I don't know.

I would have thought you know my idea of god by now. What exactly isn't real or realistic to you? The fact that some 'thing' or whatever you wish to call it created the universe. So do you not agree that something created the universe? If not, there's no point continuing on the conversation as you obviously don't agree that a creation has a creator. If you do, but you believe that there was nothing that initiated the creation, then that doesn't make sense, but i doubt you think like that. What makes you think that there are not other different beings in other planets or galaxies that the creator has decreed a law for them. Are we that selfish? Open your horizon . Elaborate on the "colliding with another galaxy". Where did you get that from out of curiosity.

StopS

I would have thought you know my idea of god by now. What exactly isn't real or realistic to you?

Something wanted this whole universe to be
Something thought to create all of this
It is independent of time and space
not effected by the laws that it created itself
Something was independent of time and space
It's too much of a coincidence
It's too much of a coincidence to say that some randomness made this all happen in perfect measurements
how the moon came about
A few cms out of sync
I just think it's too much of a coincidence

The fact that some 'thing' or whatever you wish to call it created the universe. So do you not agree that something created the universe? If not, there's no point continuing on the conversation as you obviously don't agree that a creation has a creator. If you do, but you believe that there was nothing that initiated the creation, then that doesn't make sense, but i doubt you think like that. What makes you think that there are not other different beings in other planets or galaxies that the creator has decreed a law for them. Are we that selfish? Open your horizon . Elaborate on the "colliding with another galaxy". Where did you get that from out of curiosity.

The "fact"?? What fact?? Why do you call it a fact?? It is a fact that Andromeda will collide with the Milky Way. We can calculate the angle and speed of our neighbouring galaxy and deduce what will happen.

No, I do NOT agree "something" "created" the Universe. Why? How? Using what material? Using what process? I don't believe anything.

"Open your horizon"?? I am willing and able to say I don't know whether or not there is a creator/god. Are you? And you tell ME to open my horizon

sushi1992

Something wanted this whole universe to be
Something thought to create all of this
It is independent of time and space
not effected by the laws that it created itself
Something was independent of time and space
It's too much of a coincidence
It's too much of a coincidence to say that some randomness made this all happen in perfect measurements
how the moon came about
A few cms out of sync
I just think it's too much of a coincidence

The "fact"?? What fact?? Why do you call it a fact?? It is a fact that Andromeda will collide with the Milky Way. We can calculate the angle and speed of our neighbouring galaxy and deduce what will happen.

No, I do NOT agree "something" "created" the Universe. Why? How? Using what material? Using what process? I don't believe anything.

"Open your horizon"?? I am willing and able to say I don't know whether or not there is a creator/god. Are you? And you tell ME to open my horizon )

I must have missed the part where you explained what your views are. I asked you before but you keep questioning my beliefs and i haven't really seen what you actually believe. I am curious. By the way, the sentence that started with "the fact that" is meant to end with a question mark, my bad .

Also, how can you be so sure that this neighbouring galaxy is going to be the end of us? Do you not read science news recently? How about where NASA were talking about an asteroid (nicknamed the "doomsday asteroid&quot has a 2.7% chance of hitting the Earth? An asteroid is going to pass by the Earth the closest for the first time around 15th of February this year. The tragectory and speed of asteroids is ever changing and "CAN" direct itself towards us. What then? Do you reckon people will care about your "Andromeda will hit the Milky Way" view then? I don't think so. Don't make it sound like you know when the world will end. You can estimate all you want. Of course I am willing to accept that there is a creator or not however my CURRENT logic works like this. A creation needs a creator. The ultimate creator is independent of time or space. There was a documentary on BBC4 and it was so interesting but i couldn't remember what it was called for the life of me, but it pointed to there being something independent of time and space, some kind of paradox void i think was one of the descriptions. 75% of our universe is made of dark matter/energy and we have no clue what it is, so we are still plodding along and discovering, however i am always very open minded, however one thing that i won't change about is the fact that this universe is NOT made from nothing.

justamuslim

Doesn't the Koran mention a "dawn prayer" in 2458? Just when I am in a REM state? )

Salat Alfajr is not dawn prayer.

justamuslim

Isn't there this bit about humans and jinns only being created to worship?

Define worship? I think this would help.

ZiggyPeace

Yep, getting better, much better.
It does not resolve the circular reasoning, but explains your opinion.

Why not?

Why?

Ok, this I respect. I will chat with Lawrence Krauss about this next week. He wrote a book about it (A Universe from Nothing) and made several videos, but they are still too complicated so I want to know if he can help make it easier to understand for people who are not scientists and cosmologists.

That's your opinion and that's fine if it works for you.

Selam StopS,
I have been reading your post and discussions(hardly i would call it discussion), you are either taking a Mickey of the subject or love talking nonsense or trying to make a sense out of nonsense which is it? I think you are a total JOKER, which is not a right place here to carry that sort title! Circus would be the place I recon!! First of all, let me tell you this much,please do not take this as a personal attack to you. I am not doing that, what i am doing is giving my opinion as straight as an arrow to YOU what YOU really are.
You do not believe existing of God,Creator,Ultimate designer or High and Mighty. If someone does not even recognize God's existence how can he possibly have a healthy discussion? That is beyond my comprehension and would be for anybodies for that matter. God has given us incredibly design something called Brain and gave you all the faculties which you can explore,search and find the truth. As sushi1992 responded one of your post this universe popped up from nowhere without creator and creation has a creator. It is simple as that. If you are going to ask which thats what you have been doing for every word ''WHY,WHY.WHY like a little kid asking to mum or dad, how come lollipop man did come three o'clock instead of four o'clock or Why does he sell the ice lollipop or WHY he is called lollipop man. You can answer all these to a kid with reasonable explanation until you run out of patience, but when it comes down to explanation of existing of God you will have to be prices,accurate and simple! All you have to say to a kid, look around you son,look at yourself,look at the sky,look at the rain,snow,wind,trees,birds,ants and the air you are breathing. Can you create all that? without a doubt he will say NO. This big NO leaves him with one Answer, it is a GOD,High and Mighty.
I would have understood if you even criticize the scriptures and its translations which gives more than one way of understanding sometimes, But I just could not comprehend any doubts or disbelief of existing of GOD as you have been proven on your posts.
One thing we all have to remember, God has permits us explore everything in this life but we are not permitted to try to prove his non existing because simply we do not have that capability also it would be very much denying the fact as OURSELVES are the product of the God. So How does it makes sense not to believe or question of existing of God??? So all your silly and nonsense posts leaves you with Big Nothing and makes you no more than a empty box in a human body!!
So all the Why,why with the some sciencetifically decorated words does not make you the man proving a point, not when you are in denial of your own being is the answer existing of God. You see StopS, You will know the answers how the rain becomes a rain or snow becomes a snow buy you will never know in order to prove what is behind the potencial power or force and incredibly designed and perfectly balanced this universe and everything else on it.Because that is GOD/CREATOR which sadly you put in question of existing.Where you can not explain or answer things thats where you find the GOD.
I hope I managed to explain in plain language about what God's existence.

Be in peace with yourself.

Tigress

Selam StopS,
I have been reading your post and discussions(hardly i would call it discussion), you are either taking a Mickey of the subject or love talking nonsense or trying to make a sense out of nonsense which is it? I think you are a total JOKER, which is not a right place here to carry that sort title! Circus would be the place I recon!! First of all, let me tell you this much,please do not take this as a personal attack to you. I am not doing that, what i am doing is giving my opinion as straight as an arrow to YOU what YOU really are.
You do not believe existing of God,Creator,Ultimate designer or High and Mighty. If someone does not even recognize God's existence how can he possibly have a healthy discussion? That is beyond my comprehension and would be for anybodies for that matter. God has given us incredibly design something called Brain and gave you all the faculties which you can explore,search and find the truth. As sushi1992 responded one of your post this universe popped up from nowhere without creator and creation has a creator. It is simple as that. If you are going to ask which thats what you have been doing for every word ''WHY,WHY.WHY like a little kid asking to mum or dad, how come lollipop man did come three o'clock instead of four o'clock or Why does he sell the ice lollipop or WHY he is called lollipop man. You can answer all these to a kid with reasonable explanation until you run out of patience, but when it comes down to explanation of existing of God you will have to be prices,accurate and simple! All you have to say to a kid, look around you son,look at yourself,look at the sky,look at the rain,snow,wind,trees,birds,ants and the air you are breathing. Can you create all that? without a doubt he will say NO. This big NO leaves him with one Answer, it is a GOD,High and Mighty.
I would have understood if you even criticize the scriptures and its translations which gives more than one way of understanding sometimes, But I just could not comprehend any doubts or disbelief of existing of GOD as you have been proven on your posts.
One thing we all have to remember, God has permits us explore everything in this life but we are not permitted to try to prove his non existing because simply we do not have that capability also it would be very much denying the fact as OURSELVES are the product of the God. So How does it makes sense not to believe or question of existing of God??? So all your silly and nonsense posts leaves you with Big Nothing and makes you no more than a empty box in a human body!!
So all the Why,why with the some sciencetifically decorated words does not make you the man proving a point, not when you are in denial of your own being is the answer existing of God. You see StopS, You will know the answers how the rain becomes a rain or snow becomes a snow buy you will never know in order to prove what is behind the potencial power or force and incredibly designed and perfectly balanced this universe and everything else on it.Because that is GOD/CREATOR which sadly you put in question of existing.Where you can not explain or answer things thats where you find the GOD.
I hope I managed to explain in plain language about what God's existence.

Be in peace with yourself.

nervously awaits rebuttle &

StopS

I must have missed the part where you explained what your views are. I asked you before but you keep questioning my beliefs and i haven't really seen what you actually believe. I am curious. By the way, the sentence that started with "the fact that" is meant to end with a question mark, my bad .

No further comment on the list of unrealistic assertions?

Yes, quite right. I am trying to understand what people believe and why. I believe what I have a reason to believe. I believe my car is in the garage even though I don't have a camera confirming this. I believe it will rain this week. I believe that the sun will be there tomorrow. I believe supernovas occur. I believe the Higgs Field exists.

Also, how can you be so sure that this neighbouring galaxy is going to be the end of us?

I didn't. I said the 2 galaxies will collide.

Do you not read science news recently? How about where NASA were talking about an asteroid (nicknamed the "doomsday asteroid&quot has a 2.7% chance of hitting the Earth? An asteroid is going to pass by the Earth the closest for the first time around 15th of February this year. The tragectory and speed of asteroids is ever changing and "CAN" direct itself towards us. What then? Do you reckon people will care about your "Andromeda will hit the Milky Way" view then? I don't think so. Don't make it sound like you know when the world will end. You can estimate all you want.

I did not. This is you jumping to conclusions.

Of course I am willing to accept that there is a creator or not however my CURRENT logic works like this. A creation needs a creator.

Define creation.
Explain why you think the Universe or life was created.
Explain the mechanism and process. You must have thought about this too.

The ultimate creator is independent of time or space.

Why?
Who defined this?

There was a documentary on BBC4 and it was so interesting but i couldn't remember what it was called for the life of me, but it pointed to there being something independent of time and space, some kind of paradox void i think was one of the descriptions. 75% of our universe is made of dark matter/energy and we have no clue what it is, so we are still plodding along and discovering, however i am always very open minded, however one thing that i won't change about is the fact that this universe is NOT made from nothing.

Fine.

StopS

Salat Alfajr is not dawn prayer.

Why?

Surat Al-Fajr (The Dawn) -

891
Sahih International - By the dawn

Some examples of Generally Accepted Translations of the Meaning of 2458
Muhammad Asadbefore the prayer of daybreak
M. M. PickthallBefore the prayer of dawn
Dr. Laleh BakhtiarBefore the dawn formal prayer
before dawn prayer,
dawn contact-method,
Abdel Haleembefore the dawn prayer;
Abdul Majid Daryabadibefore the dawn prayer
Aisha Bewleybefore the Dawn Prayer,
Ali Quli Qara'ibefore the dawn prayer