SURA FATIHA IS NOT IN THE "ORIGINAL QURAN"
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Dear All,Salam
If you go to Islamic awareness and then to "Sana Quran",you can see that qurans written during 1st century Hijrah do not have sura fatiha.Also go to "quran Complex"in Saudi Arabia,I mean their SITE on internet,you can see pictures of many qurans,of course older qurans,pictures show only the first page,and you will see that many qurans start with sura baqar the 2nd sura now known ti us starting with "alif lam meem".
Also present quran says,"quran and seven oft repeated ayats"this also tells us that quran and seven ayats are two different writtings.But after the firsst century people added this sura as a part of quran perhaps because of its repeating in prayers.Thanks.Thats all based on speculation and implicit verses of the Quran. We are only responsible for what we have possesion of. God does not hold us accountable for what we do not posses. The Quran we have is what we have and that is what is relevant and not what could have been.
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salaam Mazhar
I hope you read it carefully and pay attention to every word you can search for the meaning of the Qur?an insaha allaah;
411
412 revelation from all_Merciuil The_Most_Merciful
413 a book/scripture explained its sign Qur?an Arabic for folk who know431
432 and the Book/scripture the clear
433 indeed We We made it Qur?an Arabic that may use reasonIf you can not see what is right in front of your eyes then we end our discussion right here.
salaam
Salam,
What did you see in these Ayahs? Why can't you say anything specific instead of mysteriousness?
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Salam,
What did you see in these Ayahs? Why can't you say anything specific instead of mysteriousness?
salaam brother Mazhar
What I saw in the surah are is clear difference between the Qur'aan/the reading and the Book/al-kitaab
For you especially two more verses from the Qur'aam clearly coloured and underlined so there is no chance of 'mysteriousness'
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And ALLAAH will teach him the Book (al_kitaab) and the Wisdom (al_hikmah) and the Torah (al_tawrah) and the Gospel (al_'injiyl
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If they had abided by the Torah (al_tawrah) and the Gospel (al_'injiyl). and what has been revealed to them from their Lord they would have been nourished from above them and from beneath their feet. Among them are a rightly guided- directed people but many of them bad is what they do.Now pay attention two more verses in the Qur'aan regarding those who were given the Book;
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And We had already given Moses the Book (al_kitaab) but disputes arose therein and had it not been for a word that proceeded from thy Lord judgment would have been pronounced between them but they are in an uncertainty from it arousing doubt.
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And from among those who said, "truly we are Christian" We did take their Covenant but they forgot a good part of what they were reminded of. And so We brought among them antagonism and hatred until he Day of Resurrection. And ALLAAH will inform them in what it was they have done.I am sure you can do your own research and study several more verses in the Qur'aan on this subject insha'allaah
salaam -
What I saw in the surah are is clear difference between the Qur'aan/the reading and the Book/al-kitaab
the Qur'aan = the reading.
You say above is something different from "the Book/al-kitaab".
And you are saying this by inferring from the quotes taken from the Qur'aan/the reading.
Have I correctly understood you?
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It's not me, but the Qur'aan that you need to understand correctly. Remember The Qur'aan in 041045 does not say that disputes arose in the Torah but that disputes arose in the Book (al-kitaab).
salaamTherein it is said that "the Book" was given to Musa alahissalam. People differed in its contents. What was the name-title of "the Book" given to Musa alahissalam?
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Therein it is said that "the Book" was given to Musa alahissalam. People differed in its contents. What was the name-title of "the Book" given to Musa alahissalam?
I am now, for the last time, going to paste for you a passage about this subject, from al-amiyr's discussion on another forum. It may help you if you pay close attention to it, with the intention of seeking the truth insha'allaah;
(underlined by me specially for Mazhar)Whatever I quote now onwards are all verses directly from the Qur'aan. The problem with the world is that they have mixed up the kitaab (the Book) with the Qur'aan. When ALLAAH speaks about the Book (al-kitaab) in the Qur'aan scholars would insert in brackets the word 'qur'aan'. And this is where all the mischief begins among the Muslims. They blame the Jews and the Christian for changing their Books and then they change the Qur'aan with their minds. If ALLAAH wrote 'X' they think of 'Y'. So when ALLAAH says in the Qur'aan that HE sent to the Jews the Book (al-kitaab) and they discarded it then Muslims think ALLAAH said that the Jews discarded the Tawrah which they never did. So the devil begins to introduce his trickery among humanity
ALLAAH sends Moses (muwsaa) (P+) and with him he sends the Book (al_kitaab) via the Torah (al_tawrah).
The Followers of the Book (?ahl_ul_kitaab)
The followers are all those who have been cut off from the Family Tree of Abraham as well as all the other peoples who have submitted to and believed in his religion after the Torah e.g. the Jews.
Here ALLAAH speaks about His revealing the Torah and what has been preserved from the book (al-kitaab)
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Truly We have revealed the Torah (al_tawrah) wherein is Guidance and Light. By it the Prophets who have submitted have judged those who have been Jews and Those in the Divine Rabbinical Service and the Learned Scribes on what they have preserved from the Book (al_kitaab) and they were witnesses over it.042014
And they did not become divided except until after the Knowledge had come to them through desire and mutual infringement. And had it not been for a word that proceeded from thy Lord for a delayed term judgment would have been pronounced between them. And truly those who have inherited the Book (al_kitaab) thereafter are in an uncertainty from it; arousing doubt.003187
And when ALLAAH took a covenant from those who have had the Book (al_kitaab) to make it known and not to hide it but they discarded it behind their backs and bought with it some miserable gain! And Vile was the bargain they made.As you can see from all of the above the Qur'aan is speaking about a book which ALLAAH had sent to the world and the world was never absent from at least the knowledge of the Book (al-kitaab). It is not speaking about the Torah which the Jews have protected like no other book in human history. They have never discarded the Torah behind their backs and nor have they had doubt in it. But it is the Book (al-kitaab) that they have discarded and which they dispute among themselves. Some remnants of the Book(al-kitaab) are found in the kabbalah but not all Jews accept it as there is none to explain it any longer among them as among Christians as among Muslims. The nations are fighting vain battles.
.salaam
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I am now, for the last time, going to paste for you a passage about this subject, from al-amiyr's discussion on another forum. It may help you if you pay close attention to it, with the intention of seeking the truth insha'allaah;
Peace farida -- the same al-amiyr's who advocates stoning is in the book?
did the book or Qur'an command anyone to stone people?
No the Qur'aan did not but the book (al-kitaab) did.
I hope you read it carefully and pay attention to every word you can search for the meaning of the Qur?an insaha allaah;
411
412 revelation from all_Merciuil The_Most_Merciful
413 a book/scripture explained its sign Qur?an Arabic for folk who know431
432 and the Book/scripture the clear
433 indeed We We made it Qur?an Arabic that may use reasonIf you can not see what is right in front of your eyes then we end our discussion right here.
You can use my translation template although it says exactly the opposite -- that the book is Qur'an!
OK now we all know what you believe and parrot from your ancestors.
2563 ... and when address them the ignorant ones they said peace
411
412 revelation from The Powerful The Merciful
413 a book/scripture explained its verses Qur?an Arabic for folk who know431
432 and the book/scripture the clear
433 indeed We We made it Qur?an Arabic that may use reasonBTW, I've noticed you have a cult following of this al-amiyr character; one of the worst posters to visit the site.
Peace
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Peace farida -- the same al-amiyr's who advocates stoning is in the book?
Peace
Peace Nun
Have you read the Book/al-kitaab to understand details of this ?
You can use my translation template although it says exactly the opposite -- that the book is Qur'an!
No I can't, in fact I have altered your's according to my understanding of 'al-kitaab and aayaat'.
BTW, I've noticed you have a cult following of this al-amiyr character; one of the worst posters to visit the site
That is your observation not my approach. I will quote my friend here; I suppose we can borrow from the Buddhists' saying about how the teacher appears when the student is ready.
salaam -
As you can see from all of the above the Qur'aan is speaking about a book which ALLAAH had sent to the world and the world was never absent from at least the knowledge of the Book (al-kitaab). It is not speaking about the Torah which the Jews have protected like no other book in human history. They have never discarded the Torah behind their backs and nor have they had doubt in it. But it is the Book (al-kitaab) that they have discarded and which they dispute among themselves. Some remnants of the Book(al-kitaab) are found in the kabbalah but not all Jews accept it as there is none to explain it any longer among them as among Christians as among Muslims. The nations are fighting vain battles.
al-amiyr's type people have all along been there perhaps since 6th BC. They were even there in the days Qur'aan was revealed. They also used to say things for which they had no evidence to support their contention.
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al-amiyr's type people have all along been there perhaps since 6th BC. They were even there in the days Qur'aan was revealed. They also used to say things for which they had no evidence to support their contention.
in that case can you put forward your evidence in support of what you say above ? sun
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Have you read the Book/al-kitaab to understand details of this ?No I can't, in fact I have altered your's according to my understanding of 'al-kitaab and aayaat'.
Peace farida -- explain exactly in context what "it" refers to?
413 a book/scripture explained its verses Qur?an Arabic for folk who know
432 and the book/scripture the clear
433 indeed We We made it Qur?an Arabic that may use reason -
Peace farida -- explain exactly in context what "it" refers to?
413 a book/scripture explained its verses Qur?an Arabic for folk who know
432 and the book/scripture the clear
433 indeed We We made it Qur?an Arabic that may use reasonPeace Nun
- Check properly; does not mean it's verses. Remember to use You can google it. Just make sure you spell it right insha'allaah
- Why don't you check the meaning of ? Or study chapter 96 verse 1 of the Qur'aan.
Once you get to the bottom of these two words you would be in a better positon to argue insha'allaah
salaam
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- Check properly; does not mean it's verses. Remember to use You can google it. Just make sure you spell it right insha'allaah
- Why don't you check the meaning of ? Or study chapter 96 verse 1 of the Qur'aan.
Once you get to the bottom of these two words you would be in a better positon to argue insha'allaah
Peace farida,
3164 truly from The God over the believers when raised among them messenger from their souls/selves reciting on them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the book and the wisdom and indeed they are of from before surely in misguidance clear
Not about meaning of ytuhu (verses/signs its) rather that it ties the book to Qur'an.
413 kitbun/book explained ytuhu/its verses (or its signs if you like) a Qur?an Arabic for folk who know
Therefore Book = Qur'an
Likewise...
432-3 wal-kitbi/and the book the clear; indeed We jaalnhu/We made it (i.e. the book) a Qur?an Arabic that may use reason
Now do you still agree with al-amiyr that stoning is in the book or Qur'an, since you asked me this once?
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Peace Nun
- Check properly; does not mean it's verses. Remember to use You can google it. Just make sure you spell it right insha'allaah
- Why don't you check the meaning of ? Or study chapter 96 verse 1 of the Qur'aan.
Once you get to the bottom of these two words you would be in a better positon to argue insha'allaah
salaam
Before I reply to any post I must correct my mistake above as I was rushing for my dentist appointment when I misspelled it.
Arabic or is the Arabic word for evidence, or sign, with an at the beginning.
salaam -
Before I reply to any post I must correct my mistake above as I was rushing for my dentist appointment when I misspelled it.
Arabic or is the Arabic word for evidence, or sign, with an at the beginning.
salaamPeace farida ? again not about verses/signs and you?re purposely being silent on the stoning question?
413 a book explained its VERSES Qur?an Arabic for folk who know
4144 and if We made it Qur?an of foreign (language) they would say why not explained its VERSES?432 and the book the clear
433 indeed We We made it (i.e. the book) Qur?an Arabic that may use reason7516 not move with it your tongue to hasten with it
7517 indeed upon Us its collection and its Qur?an/recital
7518 so when We recited it so follow its Qur?an/recital
7519 furthermore indeed upon Us its explanationIt is clear from above VERSES (call them SIGNS if you like) the book is Qur?an and no stoning in the book/Qur?an.
Peace
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Peace farida,
3164 truly from The God over the believers when raised among them messenger from their souls/selves reciting on them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the book and the wisdom and indeed they are of from before surely in misguidance clear
Not about meaning of ytuhu (verses/signs its) rather that it ties the book to Qur'an.
Therefore Book = Qur'an
Likewise...
432-3 wal-kitbi/and the book the clear; indeed We jaalnhu/We made it (i.e. the book) a Qur?an Arabic that may use reason
Now do you still agree with al-amiyr that stoning is in the book or Qur'an, since you asked me this once?
salaam Nun
For now I would suggest if you free your mind and adopt more humble attitude you may see how I see it
The aayat/sign/symbol/letters tied to the Book/al-kitaab in the Readings/al-Qur'aan413 kitbun/book explained ytuhu/its verses (or its signs if you like) a Qur?an Arabic for folk who know
Campare http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Ayy
and http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=surah
You see in one case they have given you choice to use either verse or sign but in the next one they failed to give meaning of surah so maybe you can give me it's translation
salaam -
For now I would suggest if you free your mind and adopt more humble attitude you may see how I see it
The aayat/sign/symbol/letters tied to the Book/al-kitaab in the Readings/al-Qur'aanPeace -- again not what's being debated; leave untranslated see it still ties the book to Qur'an...
413 a book explained ytuhu Qur?an Arabic for folk who know
Do you not see that?
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Peace farida ? again not about verses/signs and you?re purposely being silent on the stoning question?
413 a book explained its VERSES Qur?an Arabic for folk who know
4144 and if We made it Qur?an of foreign (language) they would say why not explained its VERSES?432 and the book the clear
433 indeed We We made it (i.e. the book) Qur?an Arabic that may use reason7516 not move with it your tongue to hasten with it
7517 indeed upon Us its collection and its Qur?an/recital
7518 so when We recited it so follow its Qur?an/recital
7519 furthermore indeed upon Us its explanationPeace
Peace Nun
No! I was not purposely being silent on the stoning question, I am at initial stage of learning al-kitaab, so applying 7516 not move with it your tongue to hasten with it
Soon I wil be in position to address it insha'allaah.It is clear from above VERSES (call them SIGNS if you like) the book is Qur?an and no stoning in the book/Qur?an.
Again please learn to differentiate between al-kitaab and al-Qur'aan only then you will understand what I am saying insha'allaah
salaam
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learn to differentiate between al-kitaab and al-Qur'aan only then you will understand what I am saying insha'allaah
Peace farida -- the verses clearly tie the book to Qur'an. giveup