Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
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peace all,
The idea is a good one but like many projects it requires certain things for it to work. I have completed several projects in this area and have experience publishing also.
I would be happy to lead this project but it will require ACTUAL input, not talk.
First thing we need to do is get some structure to this work, then we can divide the work amongst us
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list some of the key areas/subjects we will tackle - i.e. what are our strongest arguments against Traditional Islam
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what are the most common arguments against 'Quran based islam' brought up by Traditional Muslims
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Which projects are that Wakas? Did you read the link?
Peace Be With You.l
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You definitely have to work on this guys! I feel it is the least we can do. Its our Duty! Do you guys have a dropbox account set up? Let me know if there are any less intelligent (not well read) tasks I can do-) !
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I'd like to say I'd be able to help, but as someone currently grappling with doubt (on faith and other things) I'm not sure I'm fit to do so.
Perhaps it need not be said, but just in case, I would like to mention something. A full on, effective refutation would need to be relatively in-depth. It will not be enough to simply argue that the Quran is complete. Ahl al-hadith often do not care about that. You would need to, beyond reasonable doubt, also prove that the hadith, tabari's tafsir, etc are unreliable sources of religious authority.
That being said, I hope this gets off the ground succesfully and becomes a thing. I feel there is a large amount of good material buried in these forums already, stuff that just needs to be put polished and then all brought together.
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First thing we need to do is get some structure to this work, then we can divide the work amongst us
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list some of the key areas/subjects we will tackle - i.e. what are our strongest arguments against Traditional Islam
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what are the most common arguments against 'Quran based islam' brought up by Traditional Muslims
To begin, we can link to the various articles across the web that address the above, e.g.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran_True_Sunnah_of_Messenger_Naveed.htm
http//kashifshahzada.com/library/the-authority-of-al-quran/
http//free-minds.org/articles?tid=4etc.
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Question..............what is the purpose of this refutation, to once and for all make sunnis understand they are wrong or to inform sunnis there is a way to be a muslim without hadith?
If this project has the philosophy of proving them wrong it is doomed from the beginning. There is no way to beat dogma with logic.
I think it is worth investigating a little to see if there is any proof if some sunni traditions are older than prophet Muhammed.....For example circumicision=jewish/pagan/christian arab tradition incorporated into sunni islam based on a very vague hadith. However when you look it in the Quran it is clear it doesnt matter if you follow jewish traditions and off a piece of skin, you can still be a muslim.
I am not good at retorics, anyone understand my rambling? To show them they are out of the straight path, but it's ok, Allah will forgive them.It is not their fault they have been force-fed as children.
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Question..............what is the purpose of this refutation, to once and for all make sunnis understand they are wrong or to inform sunnis there is a way to be a muslim without hadith?
If this project has the philosophy of proving them wrong it is doomed from the beginning. There is no way to beat dogma with logic.
I think it is worth investigating a little to see if there is any proof if some sunni traditions are older than prophet Muhammed.....For example circumicision=jewish/pagan/christian arab tradition incorporated into sunni islam based on a very vague hadith. However when you look it in the Quran it is clear it doesnt matter if you follow jewish traditions and off a piece of skin, you can still be a muslim.
I am not good at retorics, anyone understand my rambling? To show them they are out of the straight path, but it's ok, Allah will forgive them.It is not their fault they have been force-fed as children.
I agree. An indirect approach is best. No one will listen if they feel threatened. Not to mention Allah said to preach with kindness and wisdom.
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peace,
Question..............what is the purpose of this refutation, to once and for all make sunnis understand they are wrong or to inform sunnis there is a way to be a muslim without hadith?
For me it is primarily about having a comprehensive source that is widely available, relatively simple to understand, well referenced........... so I/we can refer people to it if they are seeking answers about this or challenging us about it. Personally, I'm not that interested in debating people about it, I'd rather just link to a quality source, then if they want to read it fine, if not, that's their choice.
I would say however, that there is plenty of info out there already (more than ever) for those wishing to investigate, but perhaps not all in one place and/or good quality mixed in with poor quality etc.
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Sunnis (95% of them) won't listen to reason. They're not interested in the truth. They like belonging to a powerful, intimidating, holier than thou group. The target market should really be new converts who are falsely guided by Sunnis & truth seekers. We should also place an emphasis on the scientific and mathematical miracles of Quran. Not necessarily code 19 (Too complicated). But there are many others which most people are not aware of.
I have a good compilation of self incriminating Bukhari and can write. I've seen many other excellent writers on this board, better than myself, as well. Let me know if I can help in any way.
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I would say however, that there is plenty of info out there already (more than ever) for those wishing to investigate, but perhaps not all in one place and/or good quality mixed in with poor quality etc.
I completely agree, it is a very good idea to conclude in one place with reliable references. I was merely pointing out that in order to reach out and with the help of Allah make even a single sunni question his own belief. Then the "place" he can find information should not be named "refutation" to Sunnis. It should also not label sunnism as a "sect" as the article on f-m you linked to.
It will only make people defensive from the start. The best way to make a person realize he is wrong is to give him the tools to realize it by himself. It seldom works if he is told by another he is wrong.
This is something I miss on the f-m........There are a lot of articles about how wrong sunnism/shia and hadiths are bad. If I was a sunni I would feel quite offended. There is not one article describing the QA muslim, how we look at islam and how we are able to live without hadith. If we can put together a piece like that it would a very good refutation against sunnis without even having told them that they are wrong.
The target market should really be new converts who are falsely guided by Sunnis & truth seekers.
This is true. A person who seeks knowledge in islam and goes to the local mosque will never be even close to hearing of AQ.
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peace all,
The idea is a good one but like many projects it requires certain things for it to work. I have completed several projects in this area and have experience publishing also.
I would be happy to lead this project but it will require ACTUAL input, not talk.
First thing we need to do is get some structure to this work, then we can divide the work amongst us
-
list some of the key areas/subjects we will tackle - i.e. what are our strongest arguments against Traditional Islam
-
what are the most common arguments against 'Quran based islam' brought up by Traditional Muslims
Salam wakas )
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the Sunnis and Shias believe in Hadith because of the Narrator, they believe the narrator such as Abu hurayra and other sahaba or tabi'in or whatever is capable enough to be fully trusted as a Righteous person. so i think we shud find some errors from their (narrator_ works and find some hadith that CLEARLY AGAINST THE QURAN as many as we can
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Traditional Muslims oftenly used 'Obey Allah and Messenger' to be their strongest argument against Quranist. for full example, here is the good link from answering x http//www.answering-christianity.com/refutation_to_quranists.htm
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History of Quran, wherever i try to find it, never satisfied me enough. therefore, we should bring some arguments about it.
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I think such repository, classified and indexed is a good idea. It is a lot of work too.
As to have a refuting tool ready made, I think there should be clarity as to what is propounded.
Something I have detected in a lot of what goes on in the forum is to bundle all hadith as if it were a single unit. THEY ARE NOT. And I am not talking about they being authoritative or not, but simply as to content.
There are hadiths which are indiferent morally, and which the best objection to them would be what its significance is. Other hadith are not indiferent, they are directly repulsive, ugly, humilliating, insulting. And then there are hadiths which do have wisdom, bedeep or very deep wisdom. And then there are those which are really inspiring. We cannot just go and charge against hadith as a unit which it is not, as if they were the devil. We cannot fall in the same trap that others have fallen.
A different, completely different question is deriving doctrine or norms or rules from hadith. For individual and private use, one may derive whatever one wants from whatever one wants, for collective use or proposal, no, one cannot. The only normative book is Qur'an, no the bible, not hadith, not anything else. The qur'an itself encloses not very much normative stuff, in most religions, revelation is like that, more principles than myriad of rules. The myriad rules people add them after the fact.
I agree that the institutionalisation of any norm that is not in Qur'an is not permitted. That is the important point. It may inspire, it may make one think deeply, move to wisdom, but if it is not in the Qur'an it cannot bind anybody and should not be used to establish anyting as a rule on the principle that it is God's will or God's or the Prophet's word. It should be enough that their autenticity is not guranteed by God, therefore not guranteed at all.
Another thing of course, is whatever people, on their own authority, not God's authority or the Prophet's may want to propose. It is up to the people, but, please not hiding under the skirts of Go or the Prophet, astaghfirullah.
I say that those hadith that by content deserve respect should be respected, not acknowledged as authentic, because for that we do not have the support of Qur'an, but acknowledged as we acknowledge words of wisdom from other sources, be it the gospels, Rumi, Ibn Arabi, what is obviously wise, is wise, come from whomever.
Those hadith that do not deserve respect, should not get it, just because such stupidity got a pass in collections to joint other stuff that might be from quite a different nature. It is an insult. Le us just imagine for a moment that some writing of Rumi got collected in the same volume with some porno stuff of the most disgusting nature or with snuff stuf. It would be idiotic to confuse both because they come in the same lot. I think that is what the vested interest hadithers did buy their way putting the good with the filth. Now we are paying for their wins through that trick if in their time they did the bod good through misuse of the good, now we are making bad the good, because of their misuse.
And of course, whatever is done, let us not forget that people have hearts and specially sensitivity. We should be respectful of that and proceed with the good maners which are proper of honest people and honest reflecters.
Those and other basic principles should be born in mind, I think from the outset in order to have a good tool for morally sound purposes.
Salaam
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Heyyy don't let this thread go dead! Im reviving it
I completely agree, it is a very good idea to conclude in one place with reliable references. I was merely pointing out that in order to reach out and with the help of Allah make even a single sunni question his own belief. Then the "place" he can find information should not be named "refutation" to Sunnis. It should also not label sunnism as a "sect" as the article on f-m you linked to.
It will only make people defensive from the start. The best way to make a person realize he is wrong is to give him the tools to realize it by himself. It seldom works if he is told by another he is wrong.
This is something I miss on the f-m........There are a lot of articles about how wrong sunnism/shia and hadiths are bad. If I was a sunni I would feel quite offended. There is not one article describing the QA muslim, how we look at islam and how we are able to live without hadith. If we can put together a piece like that it would a very good refutation against sunnis without even having told them that they are wrong.
This is true. A person who seeks knowledge in islam and goes to the local mosque will never be even close to hearing of AQ.
I completely agree. From my point of veiw, I would have loved to read a book about the history of Hadith, and highlight what is written in those tens of thick hadith and scholar books. Because the public don't get to read it. But yes that would take a long time. Baby steps..
I think an index of articles/resources covering various issues is a good start.
Yeah i was just going to say that we should start an outline already.
I think some things though that need addressing are Critical Thinking awareness, as well as how gullible it is to follow authority (imams and scholars) blindly. Remind the Muslim world of the importance of verification, and how the Quran commands us to be pious scholars.
Remember The Arrivals on youtube? It caused a wake up call towards criticizing governments and i think positively influenced people in that aspect. I wonder if it would be a good idea to take a spin on that pattern of thinking. I think there is hope developing in the Muslim world, due to the outbursts of protests and revolutions, even if steered. Many alternative sub cultures, thoughts, ideas, beliefs are starting to pop up, especially here in Egypt.
Critical thinking education is a must for anything that follows in this project. Otherwise you will be talking to walls.
Just a little side note I wish I could put flyers on mosques but I fear that the owners or other muslims might actually try to find out who put it there and be after me o.o
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Peace to all, I just bumped at this forum today, found lots of valuable discussions and info and decided to register right away. I fully support the mission of bringing the truth of uncontaminated Quran to whose who are really serious about their faith, whether they are new converts or old muslims.
One of the sources that I found online was an article from another forum, which I simply copy/pasted after reading it and agreeing with its contents, hoping that it can contribute into the filling the void of ignorance in the midst of hadith followers. I am sure there are many of them who are sincere believers with the best intentions, its just that no one happen to show them the complete truth yet so they have to go with what they are fed.
This article is about a fraudulence of hadith narrations brought through one of their most avid contributors, Abu Huraira.
Please have a read and let me know how could we use this information for moving toward the goal outlined in the title of this thread.'''''''''''''''''''
The first man who was unkind to him (i.e. to Abu Huraira) was the second Caliph, Umar Bin Khattab. Ibn Athir and Ibn Abi'l-Hadid in his Sharhe-Nahju'l-Balagha, Volume III, page 104 (printed in Egypt), and several others have reported that after Caliph Umar appointed Abu Huraira governor of Bahrain in 21 A.H., the people informed the Caliph that Abu Huraira had amassed great wealth and had purchased many horses. Umar therefore deposed him in 23 A.H. As soon as Abu Huraira entered the court, the Caliph said "O enemy of Allah and enemy of His Book! Have you stolen Allah's property?" He replied, "I never committed theft, but the people have given me gifts."Ibn Sa'ad in Tabaqat, Volume IV, page 90, Ibn Hajar Asqalani in Isaba, and Ibn Abd-e-Rabbih in Iqdu'l-Farid, Volume I, write that the Caliph said "'When I made you the governor of Bahrain, you had not even shoes on your feet, but now I have heard that you have purchased horses for 1,600 dinars. How did you acquire this wealth?' He replied, 'These were men's gifts which profit has multiplied much.' The Caliph's face grew red with anger, and he lashed him so violently that his back bled. Then he ordered the 10,000 dinars which Abu Huraira had collected in Bahrain be taken from him and deposited in the account of the Baitu'-Mal."
This was not the first time that Umar beat Abu Huraira. Muslim writes in his Sahih, Volume I, page 34, that during the time of the Prophet, Umar Bin Khattab beat Abu Huraira so severely that the latter fell down on the ground.
Ayesha once told urwa that are you not surprised by abu huraira that he came and started narrating ahadeeth from holy prophet asws while sitting near my home; and I was listening that, I was offering prayers then but he left before I could finish my prayers; had I found him I would have told him that holy prophet asws never narrated ahadeeth like he was narrating
REFERENCES-
1- musnad imam ahmad, urdu, vol 11, page 237-238, narration 25377 [translator has mentioned that it has been authenticated in sahih al bukhari (356;; sahih al muslim (2493);; ibn haban (100 and 7153)
2- musnad imam ahmad, urdu, vol 11, page 339-340, narration 25754Muslim in his Saheeh in Volume 1, writes that during the time of the Prophet (PBUH) Umar bin Khattab beat Abu Hurairah for fabricating lies.
In Volume 2 of Saheeh Muslim, he quotes Aa'ishah as" Abu Hurairah is a great liar who fabricates Ahaadeeth and attributes them to the holy Prophet (PBUH).
In Volume 4 of Saheeh Muslim, Nadwi says "Imam Abu Hanifa said, 'The companions of the Prophet (PBUH) were generally pious and just. I accept every Ahaadeeth narrated by them, but I do not accept the Ahaadeeth whose source is Abu Hurairah, Anas ibn Malik, or Samra bin Jundab."
http//muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=2420.0;wap2
Abu Hurairah or 'Paul'
Zeynab
Ever heard of that name, Paul, in connection with the New Testament?Paul (or Saul of Tarsus) was a pharisee and a very controversial person. He belonged to Tarsus in the Eastern Roman Empire (probably Greece). It is said that he lived during the time of Jesus, possibly born between 3 to 5 B.C. but no one knows his exact date of birth. Paul persecuted the Jews and Christians for long time and then suspiciously converted to Christianity after reportedly seeing a "dream." Then, somehow, his name changed from Saul to 'Paul' and he literally became the founder of an altered version of Christianity, the one practiced today by the Christians. Paul is regarded as the most important interpreter of Jesus' mission. The gossip goes that he explained in a way that Jesus himself didn't. Paul claimed that he was commissioned by Jesus to preach Christianity. But Christians today openly acknowledge that other than Paul's own claim that he was commissioned by Jesus, there is no proof at all that he was. In fact, majority of the Christian sources are of the firm opinion that Paul never even saw or met Jesus. Yet, every word of his was considered law and he was never questioned nor required to prove his credibility concerning whatever he claimed. He lay the foundation of altered Christianity. He began being recognized as the most important source of Christian laws which had nothing to do with the original Faith as preached by Jesus, son of Virgin Mary. We can well imagine how many Christians have so far deviated from their true roots in preference to the phoney stories and whispers of this man, in the name of faith.
Unfortunately, history was to repeat itself. The Muslims have a duplicate of "Paul" named Abu Hurairah. He is the master of the Hadith literature (which is the counterpart of the altered Christian & Jewish Bibles), having narrated the largest number of Hadith narrations by spending the least number of years in the company of Prophet Muhammad (SAAW) in Medinah.
In his own words "There is none among the companions of the Prophet who has narrated more Hadiths than I except 'Abdallah bin Amr (bin al-'As) who used to write them and I never did the same." Narrated Abu Huraira (Hadith No.1.113).
Apart from the nonsensical contents of Abu Hurairah's narrations, uptil today hardly any naive Muslim has raised the question that how could a man who spent barely a couple of years as the Prophet's contemporary have narrated many more Ahadith than even the Prophet's closest family members and friends?
Stories of his being a "close companion" of the Prophet (SAAW) have just one source - Abu Hurairah himself. Other than that, there's no evidence to indicate that Abu Hurairah had any connections with the Prophet (SAAW) at all, let alone being a "close companion."
Shiias consider Abu Hurairah thoroughly unreliable. They only accept his narrations if a similar Hadith is narrated by some member of the Prophet's family.
However, don't forget, Hadith is Hadith. Whether it be a Sunni Hadith or Shiia Hadith, the entire Hadith institution is tainted with deep suspicion and controversy.
WHO DISLIKED ABU HURAIRAH AND WHO WERE HIS FRIENDS?
Abd-al-Rehman (kunya 'Abu Hurairah' was disliked by Umar bin Khattab, the second righteous Caliph (RA). Umar bin Khattab was very upset at his habit of narrating false Ahadith in the name of the Prophet (SAAW) and threatened to exile him if he didn't stop. That frightened him and he stopped for a while. But after the tragic assasination of Umar, Abu Hurairah resumed his mischief and was greatly encouraged by the first Ommayad ruler, Muawiyah and then his son, Yazid.
In particular, Abu Hurairah is supposed to have hated Aisha (RA). It is a matter of record that he made up several Hadiths that Aisha directly rejected. His hatred of her was primarily based on his fear. Aisha, being the Prophet's (SAAW) wife, was in a very favorable position to catch Abu Hurairah's tricks and she is reported to have confronted him several times.
Every bit of historical data indicates that Abu Hurairah was a very close friend of Muawiyah bin Abu Sufyan, the first Ommayad Caliph. Let's not forget, during the lifetime of the Prophet (SAAW), Muawiyah's father, Abu Sufiyan, was the pagan leader of Qureysh in Makkah and a staunch enemy of Islam. He and his family embraced Islam, not out of love, but for better political opportunities after the conquest of Makkah. Muawiyah was an ambitious and clever man who never got hung up on ethics. After the assasination of Imam Ali when the old rivalry of Banu Hashim and Banu Ommayah was fully revived, Muawiyah desperately wanted to grab power and he wanted it to remain within his family .. reminiscent of the days when his father was the chief of Qureysh until the fall of Makkah. Yazid, who was the son of Muawiyah, was born of Muawiyah's Christian wife.
Abu Hurairah's priority was to include himself with the elites. When the Muslims won the battle of Khyber, he supported them. Prior to that, when the Jews populated Khyber, Abu Hurairah was fascinated by the Jewish elites of Khyber and sought their company.
At the start of the Ommayad rule, Abu Hurairah lived in Muawiyah's royal palace and served him including his political views. During Muawiyah's rule, Abu Hurairah constructed many Ahadith which supported the idea that the Imam or Khalifa must be obeyed like God. Many of the Hadiths that were narrated by Abu Hurairah contradict other hadiths including his own, contradict the Quran, contradict the Prophet's exemplary character and contradict common sense.
FOR HOW LONG WAS ABU HURAIRAH THE PROPHET'S (SAAW) CONTEMPORARY?
Abu Hurairah spent LESS than three years in al-Medinah during the lifetime of the Prophet about which Huraira himself testifies in one of his narrations "I enjoyed the company of Allah's Apostle for three years." (Volume 004, Book 056, Hadith Number 789).
After less than three years with the Prophet (SAAW), he kept his Hadith narrations to the minimal during the era of the four righteous Caliphs - Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman and Ali. Abu Hurairah's Hadith narrations started in full swing from the reign of Muawiyah bin Abu Sufyan. This was more than 30 years after the death of the Prophet (SAAW). Logically, this would mean that Abu Huraira kept almost 40,000 Hadith narrations secretly in his mind until the Ommayads came to power. There is also a very important historical report which discloses that Abu Hurairah was asked much later in life, of the consequences if he had narrated that many Hadiths in the days of Caliph Umar bin Khattab? He replied that he wouldn't dare to, and if he had, he would have been given a beating.
Now listen to this! Abu Hurairah is supposed to have narrated some 40,000 traditions during his lifetime. Dividing such a number to (less than) three years of his so-called companionship with the Prophet (SAAW) would result in 40 traditions per day .. which is humanly impossible!!!
ABU HURAIRAH'S JEWISH CONNECTIONS
Another myth that circulates in some segments of the Sunni community is the claim that Abu Hurairah was one of the "sahabahs" present during the Treaty of Hudaybiah. Not true at all. Abu Hurairah had not even converted to Islam at the time of the Treaty of Hudaybiah. Most likely, he had not even arrived in Medinah from his native country, Yemen, at that time. He was not among those sahabahs who witnessed the pledge of Hudaybiah for sure.
Prior to his conversion to Islam, Abu Hurairah was a Jew, though the official story states that he was pagan. He converted to Islam on the day the Muslims won the Battle of Khyber on the 7th year of Hijrah, which was one year after the pledge of Hudaibyiah. The pledge of Hudaybiah took place on the 6th year of the Hijrah. The battle of Khyber was a turning point in the defeat of the Jews of the Hejaz region and a great victory for Islam. On the day of Khyber when Abu Hurairah decided to convert to Islam, his wife, Hind, asked him why he was converting. He replied that he had no other choice but to take revenge in this manner. As a result, he was the Prophet's contemporary for less than 3 years and made a factory in his head to produce over 40,000 Hadiths !! And still the stupid 'Muslims' of today cannot catch the guile of their "Paul."
Abu Hurairah borrowed several of his narrations from Kaab Al Ahbar. Kaab was a Jewish convert who tried to explain the Quran by using the corrupted books of the Jews. He produced some of the most outrageous Hadiths that plainly contradict Quranic principles, taken from false stories in the Torah. Prior to becoming a Muslim, Kaab al-Ahbar was a prominent Yemeni rabbi, and a friend and teacher of Abu Huraira. He came to Medina and converted to Islam during the Caliphate of Umar bin Khattab. Kaab had never met the Prophet (SAAW).
Abu Hurairah and Abdullah Ibn Amr al-Aas (another narrator of false Hadiths) were both students of Kaab. It is also reported that Abdullah Ibn Amr acquired a big pile of books from the Jews and Christians and used it for giving information to Muslims. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, who is the foremost authority on the Hadith of Sahih al-Bukhari, said "Because of this (as mentioned above ) many prominent scholars among the students of the companions of the Prophet ( SAAW ) avoided taking information from Abdullah Ibn Amr al-Aas." But obvioulsy that didn't help. Abu Hurairah was also a student of Kaab and far from being avoided, he became "Paul" for the so-called Muslims.
HIS GREED
Abu Hurairah came from a poor family. After he converted to Islam, he would often ask people to recite a verse of the Quran, not because he loved hearing the Quran, but to impress the person who recited it, with the hope of getting an invitation for a meal. In one of Abu Hurairah's own narrations, the above information popped out straight from the horse's mouth
"I used to accompany Allah's Apostle to fill my stomach; and that was when I did not eat baked bread, nor wear silk. Neither a male nor a female slave used to serve me, and I used to bind stones over my belly and ask somebody to recite a Quranic Verse for me though I knew it, so that he might take me to his house and feed me." (Book #65, Hadith #343)
Also, in the above Hadith, Abu Hurairah admits that his purpose of accompanying the Prophet was not loyalty or love but to fulfil his own needs.
HIS POVERTY TURNED ABU HURAIRAH INTO A GREEDY THIEF
After Caliph Umar appointed Abu Huraira as governor of Bahrain in 21 A.H., the people informed the Caliph that Abu Huraira had amassed great wealth and had purchased many horses. Umar therefore deposed him in 23 A.H. As soon as Abu Huraira entered the court, the Caliph said "O enemy of Allah and enemy of His Book! Have you stolen Allah's Property?" He replied, "I never committed theft but the people have given me gifts." the Caliph said "When I made you the governor of Bahrain, you had not even shoes on your feet, but now I have heard that you have purchased horses for 1,600 dinars. How did you acquire this wealth?" He replied, 'These were men's gifts which profit has multiplied much.' The Caliph's face grew red with anger, and he lashed him so furiously that his back bled. Then he ordered the 10,000 dinars which Abu Huraira had collected in Bahrain be taken from him and deposited in the account of the Baitu'-Mal. (Reference Ibn Sa'ad in Tabaqat, Volume IV, page 90, Ibn Hajar Asqalani in Isaba, and Ibn Abd-e-Rabbih in Iqdu'l-Farid, Volume I).
AN EXCERPT FROM AL-ISLAM.ORG WORTH READING
QUOTE
"Interesting point is that there is NO single hadith narrated by
others as the merit of Abu Huraira. If you search the whole Bukhari
and Muslim collections as the merit of Abu Huraira, whatever hadith you see about his companionship with the Prophet SAWS, and his so-called knowledge is narrated by him ALONE without a single witness. This is a clear violation on the basis of which, even according to Hadith followers, all of Abu Huraira's narrations lose their credibility. For example, there are narrations of him which say "I was a good boy, I did this and that." Now ask yourself, will you accept the testimony of a person in a court of law saying that he is a good boy with no evidence or witness to support it?Futhermore, we do not hear that Abu Huraira was a man with a SUPER memory before he arrived in Medinah. Suddenly comes to Medinah, meets the Prophet (SAWS), spends hardly three years as the Prophet's contemporary and can remember EVERYTHING by some MAGICAL power.
This man's super memory came into existence after the Prophet's death when suddenly from a PC XT type brain his mind became like a 486/33MHz with a CD-ROM built in with the entire encyclopaedia of Hadith. ANY subject, ANY time, he would recall something that no one else knew or had heard of before."
UNQUOTEHow relentlessly the intelligence of Hadith readers has been insulted!
"PAUL'S" MISSION
Please note, by questioning the baloney which Abu Hurairah was spewing, the purpose is NOT to make light of either the Sunnis or the Shiias. The entire Hadith institution of both Sunnis and Shiias is in a pathetic condition!! But regarding this man, Abu Hurairah, he was using his BRIEF time as the Prophet's (SAAW) contemporary for PERSONAL gain. After the death of the Prophet (SAAW) and the four Caliphs, Abu Hurairah gained influence and whenever some issue arose that required an opinion, he came up with some 'HADITH' he SUDDENLY FULLY REMEMEBRED.
AS BELIEVERS WE ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO CANONIZE THE "SAHABAHS"
Something important which the Muslims have never realized, there is nothing 'holy' about the personalities of the sahabahs, in particular Abu Hurairah, that should prevent us from searching for the truth to investigate their narrations. The sahabahs were human beings capable of erring. No one is above the Quran. No matter who narrates what, and regardless of the so-called 'isnad,' if the contents of any narration does not conform with the Quran, that narratiion must be trashed. Period!
Abu Hurairah doesn't need to be investigated. He has himself made it abundantly clear that his obsession for narrating Hadith was for purely personal gain and with political motives. Instead of questioning the intent of a reader who has been wise enough not to get fooled by this deception, believers should heed their warnings and be wary.
CONCLUSION
IN PARTICULAR, be very careful when the name of 'Abu-Hurairah' appears in any Hadith. Apart from the fact that he was most untruthful, he too has been 'betrayed' by many hypocrites of his own kind who have produced various Hadiths in his name - falsehood built upon a foundation of falsehood!
Abu Hurairah is reported to have died in 681 A.D., at the age of 78, after achieving his goal of distorting Islam as much as he could .. a promise he made to himself the day he converted to Islam at Khyber.
Something to rememebr
All books, except the Glorious Quran, will contain some forgery or discrepancy. That's because, the Glorious Quran is the only Book that is protected by Allah Almighty on a "guarded tablet" (Lawh-i-Mahfuz). And this Final Message of Allah is fully detailed, complete and a STANDALONE BOOK. All praise be to Allah Azza wa Jal."Nay, but it is a Glorious Qur'an. On a guarded tablet." (8521-22)
"And speak not, concerning that which your own tongues qualify (as clean or unclean), the falsehood "This is lawful, and this is forbidden," so that you invent a lie against Allah. Lo! those who invent a lie against Allah will not succeed. A brief enjoyment (will be theirs); and theirs a painful doom." 16116-117 - Glorious Quran (Surah An Nahl)
This post is in continuation of a previous one titled Abu Hurayrah and the shaping of traditional Islam
Heba
Subhan'Allah, nothing sounds better than truth. Like his hadith narrtions, his biography is also filled with contradictions. His biography written by Sunnis claim that he became Muslim through the chief of his tribe, Tufail bin Amr, in Yemen and then came to visit the Prophet in Makkah (well before Hijrah) and he was re-named Abd-al-Rahman (his kunya remained Abu Hurayrah). They say that then he went back to Yemen and stayed there for several years and then again returned to Medina after the Prophet had migrated there. This information is totally unsupported by evidence. If we read the Prophet's biography, there's no mention of the names of any hadith narrtors (Hurayrah included) during the Makkan period. For that matter, even in the Medina period, biographies of the Prophet written by serious historians haven't mentioned the names of any of those people such as Abu Hurayrah, Abu Darda, Anas ibn Malik, Jabir ibn Abdullah and Abu Said al-Khudri etc.It should also be mentioned that during the time of the Ommayads and Abbasids when Abu Hurairah was on top of the world (because these were the rulers who befriended him), he narrated many rubbish hadiths in which he insulted Imam Ali and his family (for political purposes of course) and over the years such narrations only worsened the animosity between the Sunnis and Shiias by deepening the sectarain divide. A historian illustrates the undiscerning view of Sunnis in regard to Abu Hurairah's hadiths "One hadith narrated by Abu Hurayra was once mentioned in the presence of Haroun al-Rasheed. It said, 'Moses met Adam once whereupon he asked him, Are you the one who had us dismissed from Paradise?' A man from Quraysh who was present then asked, "When did Adam meet Moses?!" Al-Rasheed became very angry and said, "Saying too much and the sword go hand in hand; kill this atheist who doubts the hadith of the Messenger of Allah." Now, such stuff match perfectly with the practice of giving absolute authority to the khalifah who can put to death anyone he wants for any reason.
Also, I would add the name of Wahab bin Munaba and Hammam bin Munaba in this episode. They were students of Abu Hurayrah (can u now imagine the outcome!) Walkingguy (Hadither) blog writes "It is reported that Abbu Huraira also compiled many booklets of hadith but most of them were lost. Just one was left that is narrated by one of the students of Abbu Huraira RA, whose name was Hamman bin Munabba. This booklet is known by his name." Then comes the talk about Maghazi. Maghazi refers to compilations of events of war in which the Prophet participated. In other words, this collection was largely another source of made-up tales. It started being compiled during the reign of the Ommayad ruler, Omer bin AbdulAziz. But as in the case of Hadith, about Maghazi, the "scholars" also say that early compilations existed from before but many were lost. They say such stuff because they know that just as there's no evidence to say that they didn't exist in the early days, similarly there's no evidence to say that they did exist. Thus, the ulemas take advantage of this lack of information to say what they like. Wahab bin Munaba was one of the many persons who's said to have compiled a Maghazi. The intricate complications injected to disfigure Islam by the so-called sahabas, imams and ulemas starting from 30 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh) is sad and unfortunate.
Thus, along with the name of Ka'ab Al-Ahbar, the Jewish rabbi and teacher of Abu Hurayrah, comes the names of Wahab and Hammam bin Munaba - this makes the lethal triangle which I put up in Hadith Statistics post. Ka'ab was a Yemeni Jew who converted into a so-called Muslim during the Caliphate of Umer bin Khattab. His student was Abu Hurayrah and Abdullah bin Amr al-Aas. And Abu Hurayrah's student was Hammam bin Munaba and Wahab bin Munaba.
Ka'ab Al Ahbar ---> Abu Hurayrah + Abdullah bin Amr al-Aas ---> Hammam and Wahab Munaba
This triangle was more lethal than the Bermuda triangle.
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Peace.
Welcome sister/brother Keri. welcome? ? W E L C O M E ? ?
And thank you for sharing the article!
I don't like Abu Hurairah and his thousands garbage. But I'm still not sure if he was a real person or just a pseudonym used by a group of fraudsters.
May Allah guard and guide us to the straight path. pr
Peace.
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Peace.
Welcome sister/brother Keri. welcomeW E L C O M E
And thank you for sharing the article!
I don't like Abu Hurairah and his thousands garbage. But I'm still not sure if he was a real person or just a pseudonym used by a group of fraudsters.
May Allah guard and guide us to the straight path. pr
Peace.
Salam Javalatte, and thank you for warm welcome!
It could be very well that he was a fictitious personality. Lies and blasphemy of his narrations are outrageous and I now see what it meant in Quran when Allah said that he would mislead those who are disregarding His word, so that they stumble and perish on their own ways.
I also think it could be a good idea to open some Facebook fan page or group for people who uphold Quran and want to destroy modern heresies that crept into Islam.
Salam to you!
P.S>
I'm guy by the way. -
Salaam brother Keri.
It could be very well that he was a fictitious personality. Lies and blasphemy of his narrations are outrageous and I now see what it meant in Quran when Allah said that he would mislead those who are disregarding His word, so that they stumble and perish on their own ways.
Blue Well said. Indeed. )
Green Do you refer to verses such as 639 and 16104 ?
Or is there more specific verses mention about that (underline words)?
I also think it could be a good idea to open some Facebook fan page or group for people who uphold Quran and want to destroy modern heresies that crept into Islam.
I think there are already some groups sounds like that (but I still not join those groups).
Have you ever seen these?
https//www.facebook.com/groups/258108390968189/
https//www.facebook.com/groups/101251673309766/
I see these groups more like place to share information than place for discussion. However, a kind of short or brief discussion seems happen when members put questions over there.
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Salaam brother Keri.
Blue Well said. Indeed.
Green Do you refer to verses such as 639 and 16104 ?
Or is there more specific verses mention about that (underline words)?I think there are already some groups sounds like that (but I still not join those groups).
Have you ever seen these?
https//www.facebook.com/groups/258108390968189/
https//www.facebook.com/groups/101251673309766/
I see these groups more like place to share information than place for discussion. However, a kind of short or brief discussion seems happen when members put questions over there.Thanks Javalatte,
sorry I havent replied earlier, and thank you for FB links I sent join request.ANd yes you mentioned right verses, and there are few more which I can't just now remember but they are quite a few of this kind in Quran.
Salam wa barakatuh!
