Historic accounts of Muhammad?
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Stops it I had an argument with a gentleman who did make a comment the the Prophet never existed, as well as Prophet Jesus. He stated there was no evidence on any "Prophet" other than stories. Though I disagreed with his ideas, I respected his right to believe as he wished.
I don't quite understand how you can argue with someone about something that the person did not believe.
Having a lack of a belief is not a belief in itself. There is no evidence for the existence of Moses or any other of the prophets mentioned in the Bibles. This is not my belief or my opinion, it is that there is no evidence.This is why I would love to have real evidence shown to me to tell me I missed something. Not faith or belief, but something real.
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I pay extra attention to those whom have helped me grow and who I find to have valid interesting perspectives.. take it as a compliment.
MARIO... Thanks, looks interesting.
thankyou,
any ways, it was just a formal reminder, I am shia of ALI from last 28 years , and its hard for me to see any intentional/non intentional disrespect to master of my master ALI(s)......hope u understand my point...
best of luck in your search for true knowledge,may ALLAH be with you.....
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Stops... The argument was not about the fact that there is limited information or total lack thereof. We were discussing other matters on "organized" faith systems. He stated they boost society, even if not true. I argued they could hinder a society, especially when used with an agenda.
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ok here is my suggestion, try to know who was Ali ibn abi talib, and u will know who Muhammed(s) was......
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Salam guys,
I have a question if anyone can assist or make recommendations. I am looking for books written about Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) that are historical, not heresy or traditions. I asked for some at my masjid and they gave me the Seerah... ugh. Which I actually found repulsive in some areas. They also gave me two other books and within the first chapter it stated that if it was not for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Allah would have never created the world/universe. I quickly dropped both books. Perhaps a non-muslims author? I know we have Quran and that truly is the only thread I have in believing in Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) prophethood. As many of you know I was so damaged by hadith, I became standoff-ish with the Prophet, still have some lingering fears about him. I am trying for myself to get some information on him. I TRY not to place one prophet above another, but as sunni's have him almost as partner with Allah. I tread carefully when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is brought up. I know this sounds really stupid and I am not sure how else to explain it. I just need some info.
I almost felt like the ayah someone posted the other day was about me... Where it states separating the messangers from Allah. I have thought if I could just place Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to the side and just not address my issues, I could be at peace with just Quran. That Ayah scared me a bit, last thing I want is to have Allah angry with me over something I am avoiding inside. Don't get me wrong I am grateful for the Messenger for bring the Message, but I don't think at this time, I would be comfortable meeting him on Qiyama and/or Jannah (If I even get there). I am not sure why I have this unease/fear feeling. So stupid really.
Thanks in advance.
Salaam,
I am afraid that every book you read about Mohammed is not more then a other hadith, even if it is not from Bukharie en Co.
I understand why you are not comfortable with meeting him, hadiths have brought a lot of damage to him.From The Quran these are the only things we know about Mohammed the rest are baseless hadiths no matter who the author is.
3144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many messengers who have passed before him. If he dies or is killed will you turn back on your heels? And whoever turns back on his heels, he will not harm God in the least. And God will recompense the thankful.
3340 Mohammed is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.
472 And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Mohammed, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.
4829 Mohammed is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves. You see them kneeling and prostrating, they seek the blessings and approval of God. Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating. Such is their example in the Torah. And their example in the Gospel is like a plant which shoots out and becomes strong and thick and it stands straight on its trunk, pleasing to the farmers. That He may enrage the rejecters with them. God promises those among them who believe and do good works a forgiveness and a great reward.
If you never heard before of Mohammed (not a single hadith or whatsoever) but ONLY these verses would you still feel uncomfortable meeting him?
Salaam,
Benderps besides this I am now very confident in my belief that Mohammed (The Mohammed of The Quran not the Mohammed of the hadiths) is not a name but a title but that is a different topic.
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If we believe in the Qur'an's integrity, then we must agree that the messenger who brought it and passed it on dis a damned good job of it, because we can't count ont he integrity or any other scripture extant that I am aware of but we can count on Qur'an. So for anybody who considers the Qur'an integral and faithful to eh revelation, the Messenger who brought and passed it on deserves our thanks, our recognizance and our comprehension and compassion for the enormous damage that has been done to his memory through false attribution, milking his person as a milk cow to extract from it litres and liters of hadith, and litters and litters of defamation of character and falsehood.
He really deserves the respect and the heartfelt company of the true believers, because he has suffered defamation after death to the utmost, before we may not know. And I am sure he would understando you Indelwyn. Things said of him make you angry, but it is not his fault. Do not forget that he fulfilled his mission to the dot and that you can read and investigate Qur'an because of that, because of his faithfulness, his absolute submission and commitment to his mission. And I do not think it was easy, we just have to think of the many scriptures that have been twisted from the beginning ar trampled on along the years and the centuries. The Qur'an is indeed a miracle, and had to be so from the beginning.
Salaam
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Salam guys,
I have a question if anyone can assist or make recommendations. I am looking for books written about Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) that are historical, not heresy or traditions. I asked for some at my masjid and they gave me the Seerah... ugh. Which I actually found repulsive in some areas. They also gave me two other books and within the first chapter it stated that if it was not for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Allah would have never created the world/universe. I quickly dropped both books. Perhaps a non-muslims author? I know we have Quran and that truly is the only thread I have in believing in Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) prophethood. As many of you know I was so damaged by hadith, I became standoff-ish with the Prophet, still have some lingering fears about him. I am trying for myself to get some information on him. I TRY not to place one prophet above another, but as sunni's have him almost as partner with Allah. I tread carefully when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is brought up. I know this sounds really stupid and I am not sure how else to explain it. I just need some info.
I almost felt like the ayah someone posted the other day was about me... Where it states separating the messangers from Allah. I have thought if I could just place Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to the side and just not address my issues, I could be at peace with just Quran. That Ayah scared me a bit, last thing I want is to have Allah angry with me over something I am avoiding inside. Don't get me wrong I am grateful for the Messenger for bring the Message, but I don't think at this time, I would be comfortable meeting him on Qiyama and/or Jannah (If I even get there). I am not sure why I have this unease/fear feeling. So stupid really.
Thanks in advance.
History is always a controversy..
Nonetheless Billions yes Billions of people lived a good life without ever knowing Muhammad (or Jesus or Abraham or others) and/or Quran.
So don't worry too much about it.Much of the Muhammad's biography are being written 200 years after his death. and it also full of controversies and nonsensical oddity.
Having said that.. I do aware about your 'curiosity'..
And it's interesting to read 'from the other side'.
The earliest reference to the "Sarachen Prophet" (Muhammad) from non-arabic/Muslim sources is this
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrina_JacobiFrom the materials above it seems the "Sarachen Prophet" was leading a troop consisted of "Sarachen" (Northern Arabs) and Jews for the conquest of Jerusalem/Canaan against the (Eastern Christian) Byzantine Empire.
Judging by the amount of Judaism influence in today's Sunni ism and many references to the Jewish Prophets in the Quran, I would say that's not too far-fetch. Why would anyone bother to mention Moses so many times IF among the majority of the audience is not Jewish?
Salam / Peace
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Stops... The argument was not about the fact that there is limited information or total lack thereof. We were discussing other matters on "organized" faith systems. He stated they boost society, even if not true. I argued they could hinder a society, especially when used with an agenda.
Thank you for clarifying it. It makes sense that way, so it was my misunderstanding, sorry.
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ps besides this I am now very confident in my belief that Mohammed (The Mohammed of The Quran not the Mohammed of the hadiths) is not a name but a title but that is a different topic.
First time I see anyone agree with me on this opinion. I think I've only seen this once in literature.
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Salam guys,
I have a question if anyone can assist or make recommendations. I am looking for books written about Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) that are historical, not heresy or traditions. I asked for some at my masjid and they gave me the Seerah... ugh. Which I actually found repulsive in some areas. They also gave me two other books and within the first chapter it stated that if it was not for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Allah would have never created the world/universe. I quickly dropped both books. Perhaps a non-muslims author? I know we have Quran and that truly is the only thread I have in believing in Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) prophethood. As many of you know I was so damaged by hadith, I became standoff-ish with the Prophet, still have some lingering fears about him. I am trying for myself to get some information on him. I TRY not to place one prophet above another, but as sunni's have him almost as partner with Allah. I tread carefully when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is brought up. I know this sounds really stupid and I am not sure how else to explain it. I just need some info.
I almost felt like the ayah someone posted the other day was about me... Where it states separating the messangers from Allah. I have thought if I could just place Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to the side and just not address my issues, I could be at peace with just Quran. That Ayah scared me a bit, last thing I want is to have Allah angry with me over something I am avoiding inside. Don't get me wrong I am grateful for the Messenger for bring the Message, but I don't think at this time, I would be comfortable meeting him on Qiyama and/or Jannah (If I even get there). I am not sure why I have this unease/fear feeling. So stupid really.
Thanks in advance.
Salaam Indelwyn,
I hope this may help you somehow inshaAllah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
I read Deepak Chopras Muhammad story of the last prophet book but that's far from a scholarly text. It was neat and I'm sure used the obvious available resources.
When it comes to people who try debunk whether Jesus (this I see mostly as I live around Christians that atheists seem to prefer to debate with) or Muhammad existed, I just don't feel I could verify it for them unless God guides them to study.
The Quran says that disbelievers will say that scriptures contain fairy tales of the past which to my understanding can include that the characters are fiction too. It also mentions I forget where that God gives the best of stories to learn from so I wonder how important it is for me to believe the prophets and messengers ever existed? Maybe they didn't, at least how we think they did. I don't know and find it fruitless to try verify that information as the Quran says that I shouldn't speak things I can't verify. I verified the validity of Quran and I can say see look here but for skeptics its not enough unless God opens their minds. -
I read Deepak Chopras Muhammad story of the last prophet book but that's far from a scholarly text. It was neat and I'm sure used the obvious available resources.
When it comes to people who try debunk whether Jesus (this I see mostly as I live around Christians that atheists seem to prefer to debate with) or Muhammad existed, I just don't feel I could verify it for them unless God guides them to study.
The Quran says that disbelievers will say that scriptures contain fairy tales of the past which to my understanding can include that the characters are fiction too. It also mentions I forget where that God gives the best of stories to learn from so I wonder how important it is for me to believe the prophets and messengers ever existed? Maybe they didn't, at least how we think they did. I don't know and find it fruitless to try verify that information as the Quran says that I shouldn't speak things I can't verify. I verified the validity of Quran and I can say see look here but for skeptics its not enough unless God opens their minds.Isn't Deepak Chopra's version a novel and sheer fiction?
I don't consider it debunking to verify a claim. Most Christians make huge claims when it comes to the historicity of Jesus - yet they have no tangible evidence. So there is no need to debunk or refute anything.
And I agree with you completely that the message is more important than the physical existence. I always bring up the example of the landing on the Moon, where it is not really important to me which individual with what name and hair-colour first landed there, the important thing is that humans managed it.
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ok here is my suggestion, try to know who was Ali ibn abi talib, and u will know who Muhammed(s) was......
In a Roman manuscript from the era describing the Arab civil war he is named as Abu Turab and is described as the prince of Hira. None of those guys was a relative of the prophet or probably even met him.
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stops I'm sure the book has fiction in it. Basically each chapter is written about a designated period of time in Muhammad's life in the point of view of historical figures that were said to be close to the prophet. Not nearly a scholarly text for accurate proof of his existence. But I was entertained reading it.
I like your moon example and InshaAllah ill think of this to say in the future. It's hard on sometimes seeking knowledge about things especially on free Minds. I think I know something about Muhammad's history based on scholarly texts but then I'll come across striking well written scholarly text that say wait, Muhammad may have not existed or Mecca was made after Quran as an Arabian conspiracy... it's tough because any view people take they seem to provide convincing evidence but all in all I know that I may never know for sure because any evidence would be written down or footnoted by a scholar. So inshaAllah ill continue to read Quran and ask for guidance to understand meaning. Maybe history facts aren't important as the knowledge of learning from the Quran. Peace. -
The quran never tells us to mechanically repeat such a thing.
what if I bring up the ayat which states take name of MUHAMMED (s) with respect, and also send SALAAM (peace) on him, as much as possible?
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In a Roman manuscript from the era describing the Arab civil war he is named as Abu Turab and is described as the prince of Hira. None of those guys was a relative of the prophet or probably even met him.
Ali ibn abi talib was also named as abu turaab by prophet Muhammed(s)...and he was nephew of prophet(s)....and also son in law and his rightful successor....
