Historic accounts of Muhammad?
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If we believe in the Qur'an's integrity, then we must agree that the messenger who brought it and passed it on dis a damned good job of it, because we can't count ont he integrity or any other scripture extant that I am aware of but we can count on Qur'an. So for anybody who considers the Qur'an integral and faithful to eh revelation, the Messenger who brought and passed it on deserves our thanks, our recognizance and our comprehension and compassion for the enormous damage that has been done to his memory through false attribution, milking his person as a milk cow to extract from it litres and liters of hadith, and litters and litters of defamation of character and falsehood.
He really deserves the respect and the heartfelt company of the true believers, because he has suffered defamation after death to the utmost, before we may not know. And I am sure he would understando you Indelwyn. Things said of him make you angry, but it is not his fault. Do not forget that he fulfilled his mission to the dot and that you can read and investigate Qur'an because of that, because of his faithfulness, his absolute submission and commitment to his mission. And I do not think it was easy, we just have to think of the many scriptures that have been twisted from the beginning ar trampled on along the years and the centuries. The Qur'an is indeed a miracle, and had to be so from the beginning.
Salaam
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Salam guys,
I have a question if anyone can assist or make recommendations. I am looking for books written about Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) that are historical, not heresy or traditions. I asked for some at my masjid and they gave me the Seerah... ugh. Which I actually found repulsive in some areas. They also gave me two other books and within the first chapter it stated that if it was not for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Allah would have never created the world/universe. I quickly dropped both books. Perhaps a non-muslims author? I know we have Quran and that truly is the only thread I have in believing in Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) prophethood. As many of you know I was so damaged by hadith, I became standoff-ish with the Prophet, still have some lingering fears about him. I am trying for myself to get some information on him. I TRY not to place one prophet above another, but as sunni's have him almost as partner with Allah. I tread carefully when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is brought up. I know this sounds really stupid and I am not sure how else to explain it. I just need some info.
I almost felt like the ayah someone posted the other day was about me... Where it states separating the messangers from Allah. I have thought if I could just place Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to the side and just not address my issues, I could be at peace with just Quran. That Ayah scared me a bit, last thing I want is to have Allah angry with me over something I am avoiding inside. Don't get me wrong I am grateful for the Messenger for bring the Message, but I don't think at this time, I would be comfortable meeting him on Qiyama and/or Jannah (If I even get there). I am not sure why I have this unease/fear feeling. So stupid really.
Thanks in advance.
History is always a controversy..
Nonetheless Billions yes Billions of people lived a good life without ever knowing Muhammad (or Jesus or Abraham or others) and/or Quran.
So don't worry too much about it.Much of the Muhammad's biography are being written 200 years after his death. and it also full of controversies and nonsensical oddity.
Having said that.. I do aware about your 'curiosity'..
And it's interesting to read 'from the other side'.
The earliest reference to the "Sarachen Prophet" (Muhammad) from non-arabic/Muslim sources is this
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrina_JacobiFrom the materials above it seems the "Sarachen Prophet" was leading a troop consisted of "Sarachen" (Northern Arabs) and Jews for the conquest of Jerusalem/Canaan against the (Eastern Christian) Byzantine Empire.
Judging by the amount of Judaism influence in today's Sunni ism and many references to the Jewish Prophets in the Quran, I would say that's not too far-fetch. Why would anyone bother to mention Moses so many times IF among the majority of the audience is not Jewish?
Salam / Peace
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Stops... The argument was not about the fact that there is limited information or total lack thereof. We were discussing other matters on "organized" faith systems. He stated they boost society, even if not true. I argued they could hinder a society, especially when used with an agenda.
Thank you for clarifying it. It makes sense that way, so it was my misunderstanding, sorry.
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ps besides this I am now very confident in my belief that Mohammed (The Mohammed of The Quran not the Mohammed of the hadiths) is not a name but a title but that is a different topic.
First time I see anyone agree with me on this opinion. I think I've only seen this once in literature.
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Salam guys,
I have a question if anyone can assist or make recommendations. I am looking for books written about Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) that are historical, not heresy or traditions. I asked for some at my masjid and they gave me the Seerah... ugh. Which I actually found repulsive in some areas. They also gave me two other books and within the first chapter it stated that if it was not for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Allah would have never created the world/universe. I quickly dropped both books. Perhaps a non-muslims author? I know we have Quran and that truly is the only thread I have in believing in Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) prophethood. As many of you know I was so damaged by hadith, I became standoff-ish with the Prophet, still have some lingering fears about him. I am trying for myself to get some information on him. I TRY not to place one prophet above another, but as sunni's have him almost as partner with Allah. I tread carefully when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is brought up. I know this sounds really stupid and I am not sure how else to explain it. I just need some info.
I almost felt like the ayah someone posted the other day was about me... Where it states separating the messangers from Allah. I have thought if I could just place Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to the side and just not address my issues, I could be at peace with just Quran. That Ayah scared me a bit, last thing I want is to have Allah angry with me over something I am avoiding inside. Don't get me wrong I am grateful for the Messenger for bring the Message, but I don't think at this time, I would be comfortable meeting him on Qiyama and/or Jannah (If I even get there). I am not sure why I have this unease/fear feeling. So stupid really.
Thanks in advance.
Salaam Indelwyn,
I hope this may help you somehow inshaAllah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
I read Deepak Chopras Muhammad story of the last prophet book but that's far from a scholarly text. It was neat and I'm sure used the obvious available resources.
When it comes to people who try debunk whether Jesus (this I see mostly as I live around Christians that atheists seem to prefer to debate with) or Muhammad existed, I just don't feel I could verify it for them unless God guides them to study.
The Quran says that disbelievers will say that scriptures contain fairy tales of the past which to my understanding can include that the characters are fiction too. It also mentions I forget where that God gives the best of stories to learn from so I wonder how important it is for me to believe the prophets and messengers ever existed? Maybe they didn't, at least how we think they did. I don't know and find it fruitless to try verify that information as the Quran says that I shouldn't speak things I can't verify. I verified the validity of Quran and I can say see look here but for skeptics its not enough unless God opens their minds. -
I read Deepak Chopras Muhammad story of the last prophet book but that's far from a scholarly text. It was neat and I'm sure used the obvious available resources.
When it comes to people who try debunk whether Jesus (this I see mostly as I live around Christians that atheists seem to prefer to debate with) or Muhammad existed, I just don't feel I could verify it for them unless God guides them to study.
The Quran says that disbelievers will say that scriptures contain fairy tales of the past which to my understanding can include that the characters are fiction too. It also mentions I forget where that God gives the best of stories to learn from so I wonder how important it is for me to believe the prophets and messengers ever existed? Maybe they didn't, at least how we think they did. I don't know and find it fruitless to try verify that information as the Quran says that I shouldn't speak things I can't verify. I verified the validity of Quran and I can say see look here but for skeptics its not enough unless God opens their minds.Isn't Deepak Chopra's version a novel and sheer fiction?
I don't consider it debunking to verify a claim. Most Christians make huge claims when it comes to the historicity of Jesus - yet they have no tangible evidence. So there is no need to debunk or refute anything.
And I agree with you completely that the message is more important than the physical existence. I always bring up the example of the landing on the Moon, where it is not really important to me which individual with what name and hair-colour first landed there, the important thing is that humans managed it.
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ok here is my suggestion, try to know who was Ali ibn abi talib, and u will know who Muhammed(s) was......
In a Roman manuscript from the era describing the Arab civil war he is named as Abu Turab and is described as the prince of Hira. None of those guys was a relative of the prophet or probably even met him.
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stops I'm sure the book has fiction in it. Basically each chapter is written about a designated period of time in Muhammad's life in the point of view of historical figures that were said to be close to the prophet. Not nearly a scholarly text for accurate proof of his existence. But I was entertained reading it.
I like your moon example and InshaAllah ill think of this to say in the future. It's hard on sometimes seeking knowledge about things especially on free Minds. I think I know something about Muhammad's history based on scholarly texts but then I'll come across striking well written scholarly text that say wait, Muhammad may have not existed or Mecca was made after Quran as an Arabian conspiracy... it's tough because any view people take they seem to provide convincing evidence but all in all I know that I may never know for sure because any evidence would be written down or footnoted by a scholar. So inshaAllah ill continue to read Quran and ask for guidance to understand meaning. Maybe history facts aren't important as the knowledge of learning from the Quran. Peace. -
The quran never tells us to mechanically repeat such a thing.
what if I bring up the ayat which states take name of MUHAMMED (s) with respect, and also send SALAAM (peace) on him, as much as possible?
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In a Roman manuscript from the era describing the Arab civil war he is named as Abu Turab and is described as the prince of Hira. None of those guys was a relative of the prophet or probably even met him.
Ali ibn abi talib was also named as abu turaab by prophet Muhammed(s)...and he was nephew of prophet(s)....and also son in law and his rightful successor....
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position of Ali(s) for Muhammed(s) was same like position of Haron(s) for Mosses(s).....
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what if I bring up the ayat which states take name of MUHAMMED (s) with respect, and also send SALAAM (peace) on him, as much as possible?
Peace be with you, Rising Star.
Can you please show us the verse where it says to take Muhammad's (pbuh) name with "respect", and to say "salam" on him as much as possible?
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I think this shud be sufficient....
- He is Nur (Sacred Light) (515)
- Allah blesses him (3356)
- Mercy for all the worlds (21107)
- His name is Muhammad (Meaning the Most Praised One) (472)
- Allah has exalted his Zikr (remembrance) (941-4)
- His exaltation on the Night of Mi?raj his heavenly ascent (538-9)
- His Station of Praise (Al-Maqam al-Mahmud) (1779)
Quranic verse "Undoubtedly, Allah and His Angels send blessings on the Prophet (the Communicator of Unseen News), O you who believe! Send upon him blessings and salute him fully well in abundance". (Surah al-Ahzab, Verse 56)
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BELIEVE, HONOUR, LOVE, RESPECT AND OBEY HIM
- Believe, honour and respect him
That you (mankind) may believe in Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and may respect him, and honour him, and may glorify Him (Allah) morning and evening. (489)
That you believe in Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and struggle hard in Allah?s way with your property and your persons; that is better for you, if you only knew! (6111)
- Love Allah and His Beloved Prophet more than anything else
Say (O Beloved Prophet) If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your kinsfolk, and the wealth you have acquired, and merchandise for which you fear that there will be no sale, and dwellings you desire, are dearer to you than Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger and fighting in His Way then wait till Allah brings His Command to pass, and Allah does not guide the disobedient people. (924)
- He is closer to the believers than their own selves
The Prophet is closer to the believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers. And blood-relations have closer ties one to another in the Book of Allah (regarding inheritance) than (the brotherhood of) the believers and the Migrants (from Makkah), except that you do any good to your friends. This is inscribed in the Book (of Divine Decrees). (336)
- Respect him
O you who believe! Be not forward in the presence of Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and be in reverential awe of Allah. Surely, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
O you who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud when speaking to him as you shout one to another, lest your deeds become worthless while you perceive not.
Surely, those who lower their voices in the presence of the (Prophetic) Messenger of Allah, those are they whose hearts Allah has tested for piety. For them is forgiveness and an immense reward. (491-3)- Obey Allah (Ta?ala) and His Beloved Prophet (Sallallahu ?alayhi wa Sallam)
And obey Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger that you may obtain mercy. (3132)
Those are the limits set by Allah, and whoso obeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, He (Allah) will make him enter Gardens (in Paradise) underneath which rivers flow, to abide therein. And that is the great success. (413)
O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger and those in authority from amongst you, then if you have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger if you believe in Allah and the Last Day (of Jedgement). That is better and very good in the end. (459)
And whoso obeys Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger, they will be with those to whom Allah has shown favour, of the Prophets and the Truthful and the Martyrs and the Righteous, and the best of Companions are they! (469)
Whoever obeys the (Prophetic) Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah; and whoever turns away, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them. (480)
And the believing (Muslim) men and the believing (Muslim) women are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong, and they establish regular Prayer and they give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Undoubtedly, Allah is Mighty, Wise. (971)
And he who obeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and has reverential awe of Allah, and keeps his duty (to Him) then these it is that are the successful. (2452)
Say (O Beloved Prophet) ?Obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger. But if you turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and you for that placed on you, and if you obey him, you will be rightly guided. And the responsibility of the (Prophetic) Messenger is only to convey (the Message) clearly. (2454)
And establish regular Prayer and give the obligatory charity (Zakat) and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger, so that mercy may be shown to you (from Allah). (2456)
O you who believe! Have reverential awe of Allah and speak the right word.
He (Allah) will set right your deeds for you and will forgive you your sins, and whosoever obeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, he has indeed gained a mighty success. (3370-71)The bedouins say ?We believe?. Say (to them, O beloved Prophet) ?You do not (yet) believe, but rather say ?We have submitted?, for the Faith has not yet entered your hearts. But if you obey Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, He will not diminish anything of (the reward of) your deeds. Surely, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
The (true) believers are only those who have believed in Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger and afterward, have never doubted but have struggled with their wealth and their persons in the Way of Allah. It is they who are the truthful. (4914-15)And obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger; but if you turn away, then (know that) the duty of our (Prophetic) Messenger is only to convey (the Message) clearly. (6412)
- Follow the Commands of Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta?ala) and of his Beloved Prophet (Sallallahu ?alayhi wa Sallam)
And it befits not a believing (Muslim) man or a believing (Muslim) woman, when Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger have decreed a matter (for them), that they should (after that) claim any choice in their matter; and whoso disobeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, he has surely gone astray in manifest error. (3336)
- Whatever he gives you, take it
Whatever Allah has restored to His (Prophetic) Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the (Prophetic) Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarers, so that it may not (merely) circulate between the wealthy among you, and whatever the (Prophetic) Messenger gives you, take it and whatever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and be in reverential awe of Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil). (597)
- The reward of believing in Allah and His Prophet (Sallallahu ?alayhi wa Sallam)
O you who believe! Be in reverential awe of Allah and believe in His (Prophetic) Messenger. He (Allah) will give you twofold of His Mercy and will appoint for you a light wherein you shall walk, and will forgive you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (572
http//www.iqra.net/verses-muhammad1/believe-honour-love-respect-and-obey-him
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First time I see anyone agree with me on this opinion. I think I've only seen this once in literature.
Salaam,
I think mmKhan has the same opinion as me.
Anyways I like to know how you came to this conclusion.
I mean, I know that you don't believe in Allah and in The Quran so what convinced you?
If it's from the literature you mentioned what kind of arguments did the author have for his claim.Salaam,
Bender -
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Love Allah and His Beloved Prophet more than anything else
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Obey Allah (Ta?ala) and His Beloved Prophet (Sallallahu ?alayhi wa Sallam)
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Follow the Commands of Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta?ala) and of his Beloved Prophet (Sallallahu ?alayhi wa Sallam)
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The reward of believing in Allah and His Prophet (Sallallahu ?alayhi wa Sallam)
Salaam,
It's totally ok with me what you believe but I think it's better not to say things about Allah which are not true.
Allah has NO nabi's (if that is what you meant with prophet), subhanaHu.
To understand better please take a look at 231-33.Salaam,
Bender -
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Salaam,
It's totally ok with me what you believe but I think it's better not to say things about Allah which are not true.
Allah has NO nabi's (if that is what you meant with prophet), subhanaHu.
To understand better please take a look at 231-33.Salaam,
Bender231-33 says what? and explain it in this discussion context....
