Why God put verses in Quran he is the only one he can understand ?
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Salaam
37 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.
Peace
salaam
Below is the quote from your post on Does Deen means Debt ?
? Reply #5 on February 08, 2013, 050844 AM ?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605023.msg320963#msg320963381 And God took a covenant from the prophets (anbiya) "For what I have given you of the Book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will believe in him and support him." He said "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" They said "We testify." He said "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."
this block of verses clerly precise that we have not to take any naby as teacher. Rabbaniyyin is clearly explained by verse 3-79. Rabbani is not a Rabb (teacher), but someone who remind the book and what he is studying.
3-81 contains a problem. How can died prophets support who will come after him ?
for me, there is two explanations and the two are possibly true (i already told that i can accept double meaning and double level of understanding for a same verse).
The first understanding is that, in the judgement day, ancient prophets will say we were told and we have teached what muhammad was told and what Muhammad was teaching.
The second understanding is that anbiya are us. Anbiya means, linguistically for me, the informed ones. Again, we have the meaning that we have all promised to support who comes with words of God. Promise is debt. We witenessed on ourselves that we will give it back in the same same state (Muslimins/receivers and Mo'ominin/taking care for the Amana/trust given to us as debt/deen).I highlighted some very important observation from you in the post above and I hope you also work out on the meaning of
The second question is
Why he didn't show us, for example, by special marking for example, what are the incomprehensible verses ?Are you sure that God did not show you or no one came to you informing;
It is this That The Qur'aan is not only a book that one can read but the reading comes from a writing. And this writing of the Qur'aan is not just a hollow nothing but every letter has meaning and is part of the multidimensional matter-space-time configurations.It is this that I want to present here and that which I must prove and you to agree or disagree based upon your looking and reading and studying what was outlined. Is there anything wrong with this. Please let me know.
I also said that this knowledge is not known to the world but coming to it for the first time in 1400 years. It is either true or untrue.This can also be verified. I am not speaking about it not being discussed elsewhere. No! In fact this knowledge is discussed in all religions that I know but none explain all the symbols. This is what I am presenting here and that I must prove. Surely if there is nothing in here then you will know. Is it not.
.....So it is not an easy job in wanting to present something and then cursed and insulted by those who did not even give it a consideration. And yet Muslims will find it so amazing how deep the Qur'aan goes. It will essentially prove the Qur'aan. That is why I say that the shaytaan will do everything in his power to keep the world from even hearing it.http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604789.msg318109#msg318109salaam
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peace,
Modified a little
37 He is the One who sent down to you the decree/writ, FROM IT there are clear/authoritative signs/verses; they are the essence/source/foundation of the decree/writ; and others are assimilating/resembling/co-similar. As for those who have a disorder in their hearts, they will follow what assimilated/resembled FROM IT seeking discord, and seeking to derive an interpretation, but none know its (true) interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say "We trust/believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will take heed except those who possess intelligence.
Clearly, one should preference the clear/authoritative signs/verses. They are the foundation from which to build from.
Those with disorder in their hearts, they seem to preference the signs/verses that allow more leeway so they can insert their whims/desires, seek discord, implement hidden agendas, laziness etc.
If God is author then only God ultimately knows its true interpretation, fairly obvious.
This verse can be seen as an internal distinguishing mechanism, Quran has several, e.g. "give the excess". A naturally just/righteous person will truly give what is due, whereas a stingy person may give as little as they can get away with - bringing out their true colours. 37 does the same thing.
For example, StopS feigns complaining and wants it all clear etc, but since this is a test of one's true nature, multiple potential paths to go down are required.......... so one can choose, and bring out one's true colours. If there is only one path, there can be only one outcome - if there is only one answer choice in a multiple choice question - there is no point to the test.
Reflect.
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If the human will later be tested on this, then I would expect a through explanation, yes.
If a decision which will affect eternity hangs on this, I would like some clarity.You have a thorough explanation, whether you choose to accept it or not is another issue.
I do not believe a human can answer for God as it is subjective to individual beliefs.If this book is "sent down" for me, why is it not crystal clear?
If these revelations are so firm, why do they require translation and interpretation?
Others? Which others? Which ones are the "others" which are similar? What does "similar" mean? Allegoric? If yes, then how much so and why? Why not have a clear set of rules for everyone which require no further interpretation?
If this book is for me, why are there parts which are only reserved for the author, not me?
Why is it that even people "who are well founded in knowledge" don't know what those parts mean and not even what parts these are?
What does it mean that those humans without intelligence will not remember and those humans with intelligence will remember? Every human has intelligence! How much intelligence by what standard and what definition is going to remember what?
Why are there so many open questions?It is crystal clear, doesn't mean it is to you.
Firstly they do not require translations. Translations aid those who are limited in knowledge i.e. the ignorant.
Everything in life is an interpretation. We can all read any book, see any film heck even ?read? a facial expression and have interpretations. We all live our interpretations, that?s life.
Use a dictionary if you dunno what similar/allegorical means.
Not everything in life is black and white so not everything needs to be explicit to your understanding.
The book is for those who seek knowledge, if you do not seek the knowledge and you do not care than surely it can baffled you.
You ask a lot of questions. You said
?Why is it that even people "who are well founded in knowledge" don't know what those parts mean and not even what parts these are??The verse states that those who are well founded in knowledge know the meaning, so obviously if they dunno then they are not well founded in knowledge.
I don?t know what you mean by your next question. Remember??? The verse in discussion does not discuss memory. You?re going off a tangent. Stay focused.
Why do you think there are so many open questions? Do you think every single human on earth is exactly the same? Do you think that it is possible to have the whole world agree on things exactly the same as you?
Open questions lead to multiple ways, do you not think?
Every human is born ignorant. Every human remains ignorant in most fields and in most matters.
Exactly because I am ignorant in something I require tuition. That's what happens in schools, colleges and universities all over this planet. Humans provide precise and concise tuition for other humans, sharing and transferring their knowledge. This affects maybe 30, 40, 50 years of their lives.
But when it comes to eternity we receive only vague instructions or tuition and need to interpret everything ourselves and simply say don't worry!?
THAT's why I would expect a god to point this out.In management schools you learn as a first priority that you need to clearly communicate your expectations, the actions and the result. If a mere and puny human can manage this.......
Yes, we?re all born ignorant and if we will, we aspire and gain knowledge. Many go to school, university etc however this tuition is not necessarily going to make you a master/elite or even well grounded understanding of a subject, just because a person attended and passed it does not necessarily mean they are well grounded in knowledge. You may know the first priorities of management it doesn?t mean you?re a successful manager, it does not mean you know how to execute your duties. Why then are things left to interpretation? Why are not the actions and expectations of management 1 rule that every manager can follow, why oh why is there differences? If only it could be one way for every single thing in life.
No one says don?t worry. well maybe you do to yourself. I dunno. We have a book with instructions. Some may not be clear to us but that?s why we seek knowledge and seek to understand. And that is what God has pointed out in the Quran.
Believers can feel ease by knowing God?s promise that those who believe and do good will be rewarded, so even if you?re no expert you can still manage to get a reward. so you're eternity is secure if you're genuine and adhere to the promise.
Peace.
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It is crystal clear, doesn't mean it is to you.
You can't explain 411. Nobody can. You are not taking this seriously and don't understand what I am asking. Never mind.
I don?t know what you mean by your next question. Remember??? The verse in discussion does not discuss memory. You?re going off a tangent. Stay focused.
In the opening post, the initial question by NoShirk was prefaced by a quote from the Koran
37 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.Instead of making condescending remarks it is always better to first ask and to check what the person might be talking about
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Salaam All and thank you for your responses.
I will add my contribution.
we can deduce from that verses tow conclusions
1- Nobody can claim, even in the future, that he understood all quran. No book in the world can give definitive tafassir of verses whateever is the number of writer. No assembly or Mejliss can claim too have complete knowledge of Quran and claim to be an incountournable institution.
2- Since "confuse" verses are not marked, then we have to think about all verses without knowing if we can understand them or not. If we think we have understood a verse and somebody else came with a plausible other interpretation, then the verse get automatically status of "confuse verse".So, perhaps we can say that no verse will be definitevely misunderstood and no verse can be defintively understood.
So, even if essence of the book is clear, thinking and exchange of opinons between pupils of the unique Rabb/teacher should never finish.
It seems that God wanted so. Diversity of opinions is in the heart of Islam. Two different opinions can be both accepted. Multiple meanings are allowed in quran understanding.
Those who have knowledge have to accept that.
I am now sure that malaika have free will and total freedom of thinking. There is only some bondaries they should never violate.Peace
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StopS
I rather think that you are not taking this seriously. Initially you implied fear of your eternity, yet you conjure up all these thoughts and start vomiting all sorts of questions. So in that sense I do think you go off a tangent. However you?re right about the verse ending in mentioning those who have insight/knowledge will remember.
You say I can?t explain 411. Maybe I can not. However there are people out there with interpretations of 411 and other verses with similar nature. If that is your genuine interest then you could do thorough research on al muqattaat and see what scholarly evidence and understanding there is on the matter.
I think I understood you however I probably didn?t give you the answer you may have wanted
Anyway we?re all imperfect if your concern is your eternity and you are a believer then focus on the good; the good deeds, and enjoin truth as well as patience and of course seek knowledge.
Peace.
Btw my apology if you think I was condescending for saying you?re going off a tangent it was just my perception perceived by your actions. I.e. all those questions.
Noshirk
I dunno anyone who has claimed to fully understand ALL the Quran. Every time I open the book I learn something. It?s like a new discovery every day but that?s me, I?m just an ordinary person. However that being said some ayat are muhkamat and they only have one meaning. Traditionalist understand that those are the ayat that only have one meaning according to the rules of the Arabic language.
There is nothing wrong with open discussion and learning and sharing ideas however things need proof or some sort of evidence.. as people could misguide one another through theories and lack of knowledge.
Peace.
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Salaam All and thank you for your responses.
I will add my contribution.
we can deduce from that verses tow conclusions
1- Nobody can claim, even in the future, that he understood all quran. No book in the world can give definitive tafassir of verses whateever is the number of writer. No assembly or Mejliss can claim too have complete knowledge of Quran and claim to be an incountournable institution.
2- Since "confuse" verses are not marked, then we have to think about all verses without knowing if we can understand them or not. If we think we have understood a verse and somebody else came with a plausible other interpretation, then the verse get automatically status of "confuse verse".So, perhaps we can say that no verse will be definitevely misunderstood and no verse can be defintively understood.
So, even if essence of the book is clear, thinking and exchange of opinons between pupils of the unique Rabb/teacher should never finish.
It seems that God wanted so. Diversity of opinions is in the heart of Islam. Two different opinions can be both accepted. Multiple meanings are allowed in quran understanding.
Those who have knowledge have to accept that.
I am now sure that malaika have free will and total freedom of thinking. There is only some bondaries they should never violate.Peace
If you are not already, then you should be a diplomat!
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Yes, we?re all born ignorant and if we will, we aspire and gain knowledge. Many go to school, university etc however this tuition is not necessarily going to make you a master/elite or even well grounded understanding of a subject, just because a person attended and passed it does not necessarily mean they are well grounded in knowledge. You may know the first priorities of management it doesn?t mean you?re a successful manager, it does not mean you know how to execute your duties. Why then are things left to interpretation? Why are not the actions and expectations of management 1 rule that every manager can follow, why oh why is there differences? If only it could be one way for every single thing in life.
No one says don?t worry. well maybe you do to yourself. I dunno. We have a book with instructions. Some may not be clear to us but that?s why we seek knowledge and seek to understand. And that is what God has pointed out in the Quran.
Believers can feel ease by knowing God?s promise that those who believe and do good will be rewarded, so even if you?re no expert you can still manage to get a reward. so you're eternity is secure if you're genuine and adhere to the promise.
Peace.
I believe the Quran truly clarifies this. If you look at the issue of slavery - it states that freeing a slave is a good thing to do. But the Quran recognises the constraints of a particular society that individuals live in. So it is not saying abolish it now etc. It paves the way for reform. This could also relate to our time - we live in a world where there are food and drink "mountains" and "lakes" in Europe because of policies related to agriculture but there are people starving. The Quran would not tell us to stressfully abolish everything we can but to move the way to reforming it, wherever possible and within our means.
This is an easy going nature. And a calm and centered approach is always encouraged by the Quran in terms of the behaviour of believers. This only serves to help us as individuals.
Definitely, if you are not an expert you get a reward for what you put forth. I don't believe Allah wants experts but people with sincere minds and souls. Some people cannot read and write - are they expected to understand the Quran in the same way someone with those skills may? No, I don't believe so. Some people cannot understand Arabic - are they expected to master Arabic? I don't think so either. Can these groups still be sincere believers? Yes, of course. This may be going off on a tangent a bit.
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I believe the Quran truly clarifies this.
Sorry, but I don't see anything being clarified in the Koran. Every person has a different understanding of what the Koran means. Example of the extreme how does HM clarify something or help with guidance? It takes pages of speculation to come up with a possible meaning.
If you look at the issue of slavery - it states that freeing a slave is a good thing to do. But the Quran recognises the constraints of a particular society that individuals live in. So it is not saying abolish it now etc. It paves the way for reform. This could also relate to our time - we live in a world where there are food and drink "mountains" and "lakes" in Europe because of policies related to agriculture but there are people starving. The Quran would not tell us to stressfully abolish everything we can but to move the way to reforming it, wherever possible and within our means.
I don't understand your reasoning. The Koran, in my eyes, does not say anything about freeing slaves, but provides instructions how to handle slaves and what a man is allowed to do with a female slave sexually.
It treats slaves as a common institution. If the Koran would want people to stop owning other humans it would say stop slavery! Why not?
The Koran says stop eating pork! Stop intoxicants! Stop worshipping other gods! So why not just another "stop"?This is an easy going nature. And a calm and centered approach is always encouraged by the Quran in terms of the behaviour of believers. This only serves to help us as individuals.
Definitely, if you are not an expert you get a reward for what you put forth. I don't believe Allah wants experts but people with sincere minds and souls. Some people cannot read and write - are they expected to understand the Quran in the same way someone with those skills may? No, I don't believe so. Some people cannot understand Arabic - are they expected to master Arabic? I don't think so either. Can these groups still be sincere believers? Yes, of course. This may be going off on a tangent a bit.
I think I understand your approach of making the best of all worlds. It is laudable and I wish more people would do this.
Unfortunately, others are taking the darker side of the Koran and are using it to oppress and suppress. My conclusion is that the Koran is vague and ambiguous and every individual can have their own, individual interpretation. -
Why God put verses in Quran he is the only one he can understand ?
very simple answer, but I am sure this will sound rude, but this is truth....
why he makes QURAAN complicated?
simple because he dont want every body to understand it, jannah is for exclusive people, and ALLAH is the one who will chose for those who can enter jannah.....
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no matter how great ur arabic is, and no matter how intelligent u are to crack code of QURAAN,
u wont understand true essence of QURAAN unless and untill ALLAH wish for it....
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no matter how great ur arabic is, and no matter how intelligent u are to crack code of QURAAN,
u wont understand true essence of QURAAN unless and untill ALLAH wish for it....
So it's like a machine in a casino in Vegas? If you are lucky you win the jackpot?
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So it's like a machine in a casino in Vegas? If you are lucky you win the jackpot?
in casino we dont have choice, but here we have choice, to either follow it or just reject it or keep asking questions.....
one thing I have learn in life is that ALLAH likes submission instead of QUESTIONS.....and if he will wish he will give answers as well.
this is why the ayat says "true followers accepts what is revealed"
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Why God put verses in Quran he is the only one he can understand ?
very simple answer, but I am sure this will sound rude, but this is truth....
why he makes QURAAN complicated?
simple because he dont want every body to understand it, jannah is for exclusive people, and ALLAH is the one who will chose for those who can enter jannah.....
What are your thoughts on 5417? ("And We made the Qur'an easy to learn. Are there any who want to learn?"
edit Not just Rising Star, but everyone else. How would the Qur'an be complex in nature yet "easy to learn" at the same time?
Peace
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What are your thoughts on 5417? ("And We made the Qur'an easy to learn. Are there any who want to learn?"
edit Not just Rising Star, but everyone else. How would the Qur'an be complex in nature yet "easy to learn" at the same time?
Peace
Salaam bro,
"And We made the Qur'an easy to learn. Are there any who want to learn?"
again a very simple answer...
for those who submits, QURAAN is as easy as nursery poems, those who try to be extra smart, QURAAN is soooo extra complicated for them... )
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So then how did you determine it was revealed? To whom?
This is the most important facet of your life and you don't care what happened when and where and you simply follow?
revealed on MUHAMMED(s)....and yes we follow what is revealed on him "unquestioned"
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Sorry, but I don't see anything being clarified in the Koran. Every person has a different understanding of what the Koran means. Example of the extreme how does HM clarify something or help with guidance? It takes pages of speculation to come up with a possible meaning.
I find the cornerstones self-evident- these are agreed upon by those following Quran alone. Just because there aren't lots of rules doesn't mean its not identified and agreed upon. In fact, I find it a Mercy. One of the cornerstones is sincerity (this may go without me saying) - I think this shows something important in terms of what the Quran means to each of us.
I don't understand your reasoning. The Koran, in my eyes, does not say anything about freeing slaves, but provides instructions how to handle slaves and what a man is allowed to do with a female slave sexually.
It treats slaves as a common institution. If the Koran would want people to stop owning other humans it would say stop slavery! Why not?
The Koran says stop eating pork! Stop intoxicants! Stop worshipping other gods! So why not just another "stop"?Well, it does say things about freeing slaves - some are included on the following link that also includes some more relevant information.
http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/islam-quran-abolish-slavery.htm
There is also about slaves and marriage. http//www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/concubines.htmlI don't know if you've read these. Short answer to the other points individual level and societal level means some things are straightforward whereas other things have more complexity. Given the character that the Quran constantly refers to for believers - and describes for Messengers and other noted examples for all believers such as Maryam - the way to treat slaves would be well, with plenty of security, shelter, food and kindness - i.e. not harshness.
I think I understand your approach of making the best of all worlds. It is laudable and I wish more people would do this.
Unfortunately, others are taking the darker side of the Koran and are using it to oppress and suppress. My conclusion is that the Koran is vague and ambiguous and every individual can have their own, individual interpretation.The most clear of things - the shahadah, the individuals following hadith had to change this. They made a second shahadah. The fact they say second for it should say a lot really. This way clear yet how many deviate from this clearly stated, oft repeated point in the Quran. Still they change it. When it's oft repeated its a problem because its apparently not linguistically good enough. When its not oft repeated some may complain that it can be a problem because its not clear enough. This is an issue I tend to come across. So we appear to be dealing with people's attitudes and this will remain whether a book has clear and more ambiguous verses or not. They treat them in the same way because of their own attitude. Maybe the point is to deal with that kind of human perspective.
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Salaam bro,
"And We made the Qur'an easy to learn. Are there any who want to learn?"
again a very simple answer...
for those who submits, QURAAN is as easy as nursery poems, those who try to be extra smart, QURAAN is soooo extra complicated for them... )
I sorta understand what you're saying. Innovate too wildly and you'll end up potentially acting upon a completely different message/aim altogether - but the Qur'an seems to be, for all intents and purposes, a relatively loose set of morals and aims. There is going to be variance in interpretation, heck there has been throughout all of history (not just with different sects but within those very sects too, it seems) How would one "submit" to the Qur'an without accidentally being "extra smart"? Or am I looking at this the completely wrong way?
Peace.
