The ninety-nine names of Allah.
-
This is fascinating. I thought I was the only one with a problem understanding this.
Why are they called "names"? "The merciful" is a descriptor, an attribute or an adjective, not a name. Do you call a fat man Mr. Fat or by his real name?
Has anyone really counted the "names"?
I have found that most people agree on the first 30 or 40 and then everybody differs and can't agree on a comprehensive list of 99 anyway. -
Peace, peace
Wait, so it doesn't support the 99 names? I don't know if I'm understanding it wrong, but I think I've reached to the conclusion that they ARE in the Quran, but rather as attributes of God, like a description, like 'God is Most Merciful, The Most Compassionate'.
I'm not good at expressing my thoughts, so I apologize if you don't get what I'm saying, adding in the fact that I'm pretty much sleep-deprived right now.
May God bless you,
Salaam.Peace Alex,
Yes, there is no mention of 99 names in alQuraan. Only three attributes of Allah is mentioned in alQuraan - 5924.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
This is fascinating. I thought I was the only one with a problem understanding this.
Why are they called "names"? "The merciful" is a descriptor, an attribute or an adjective, not a name. Do you call a fat man Mr. Fat or by his real name?
Has anyone really counted the "names"?
I have found that most people agree on the first 30 or 40 and then everybody differs and can't agree on a comprehensive list of 99 anyway.Yes you are correct!
For the number of attributes mentioned in alQuraan, you can look at above post.
May God bless you pr
mmKhan -
As far as I have been able to ascertain in that 99 names list there are some that are not mentioned in the Qur'an, which does not mean that they are not God's names. I do not recall that God puts any limit to its names in the Qur'an. In fat, my understandign is that God has infinite names and that the "knowledge" we may acquire of God has a lot to do with His names, which as I say we could not put a figure to them.
I consider myself that the names of God are very important and that in fact it is pointing us to the understanding of "polytheism". We know, well at least I convinced of that religions that have been polytheist were not so, but to the "Western" explorer or scholar or whatever, since all their knowledge of religions was limited to grecoroman paganism, whenever they found a religion with different names of gods or godesses they automatically branded them not as names or levels of manifestation og Divinity, which was one, but as different gods. They even did that with Muhammad, since they equated him to Christ, which was God to them. And we have kept this inertia and never bothered , whenever confronted with some "new" religion to verify its tenets.
Of course there has been polytheism, but that is not something pertaining to religions per se, but something eprtaining to humans, who may turn anything to polytheism, because that is a human tendency, to "lower" their expectations of god to something more within their capacity to approach or grasp and to manipulate, to, e it with offerings, or cajoling or whatever.
So the names of God are level of manifestation of God to humans. As to whether they are attributes or names, that is playing with words. asma' in arabic is names, but names also may denote attributes. I stick to names, the Qur'an does say "ism" and not Sifa, which more properly would indicate attribute or description.
The impediment to consider those not names, but attributes is our own limitation to see them that way, because we always consider the attribute as separate from the person Such and such is beautiful, but she or he would still be he or she even if they were not beautiful. But can God be separate from any quality. No qualities exist because they are God. They are not anything separate from his essence. God is beauty, Mercy. The Qur'an calls him Arrahman, that is him, it is not an attribute, it is Him, not anything that would exist separate from Him, and we know beauty, because He is Beauty, we know mercy because He is Mercy... His names are countless and we can know them because He exists and everything that exists has His stamp.
Salaam
Salaam -
salaam mmkhan,
I had already looked at that thread, but I do not see anything that really means something conclusive to me regarding this question.
The semantic reach of words in a language does not superimpose exactly on the samentic reach in another language, that is why when we translate sometimes we are obliged to translate the same word sometimes as something sometimes as something else. And we are forced to make other modifications to struture of phrase or employ other translating resources in order to give a better translation of what is in the original. So the ism word may pose some problems for some people, but that si what explanations are fore. Its semantic reah may not be the same in every language so we may split hairs till kingdom come sayign attribute and saying something else.
Still I do not grasp what you objections to my rendering are. For me saying "names" is satisfactory. What may be included in those names would be a question of examining one by one, but I think we do not need to. The Qur'an has the wonderful quality of adjusting to each person capacity of perception, imagination, enlightement or whatever. So as far as I am concerned, this is like a feast, each guest helps him or herself to whatever finds most to his or her liking or health or curiosity.
I would even say that each name is a personal invitation of each of us. We know we are a tiny particule in the the worlds and that we cannot encompass nor grasp but very little, what God allows, of existence and intelligence, so that fact that we do not find meaning to something or that it does not touch us, does not mean that it may be full of significance for somebody else or touch him or her deeply.
That is the wonder of the names of God. It is legitimate that we encourage ourselves to worship and get near God by His names, those that speak to us most innerly and more sharp. He does encourage us to that. They are His.
Salaam
-
I would even say that each name is a personal invitation of each of us. We know we are a tiny particule in the the worlds and that we cannot encompass nor grasp but very little, what God allows, of existence and intelligence, so that fact that we do not find meaning to something or that it does not touch us, does not mean that it may be full of significance for somebody else or touch him or her deeply.
That is the wonder of the names of God. It is legitimate that we encourage ourselves to worship and get near God by His names, those that speak to us most innerly and more sharp. He does encourage us to that. They are His.
Salaam
I think it's fine to say names or attributes. They are ways to understand - in our own human way - our relationship to God and His relationship with us. For example, attributes include The Guide, The Righteous Teacher, The Most Loving. These can be profound for individuals as you say.
In terms of the point about 5924 mentioned by another user, I'm not sure I follow. the previous verse includes a few more attributes. Throughout the Quran, Allah mentions attributes such as al-Hakim. In prayers of believers or when Messengers communicate with Allah, the mention His attributes sometimes.
-
I think it's fine to say names or attributes. They are ways to understand - in our own human way - our relationship to God and His relationship with us. For example, attributes include The Guide, The Righteous Teacher, The Most Loving. These can be profound for individuals as you say.
In terms of the point about 5924 mentioned by another user, I'm not sure I follow. the previous verse includes a few more attributes. Throughout the Quran, Allah mentions attributes such as al-Hakim. In prayers of believers or when Messengers communicate with Allah, the mention His attributes sometimes.
If they help you understand the relationship, what does the "name" The Schemer tell you? IE 354 And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them) and Allah is the best of schemers.
-
If they help you understand the relationship, what does the "name" The Schemer tell you? IE 354 And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them) and Allah is the best of schemers.
That's translated in different ways, referring to plans or a scheme in terms of a set design or a way to do something. It's saying that Allah is the best of planners and designers - those who cause corruption through their plans, Allah will secure a better plan. I would have thought you would know that I would give that type of response, StopSpamming1.
-
That's translated in different ways, referring to plans or a scheme in terms of a set design or a way to do something. It's saying that Allah is the best of planners and designers - those who cause corruption through their plans, Allah will secure a better plan. I would have thought you would know that response I would give, StopSpamming1.
How would I know what you will say? Am I a god )
OK, so then what does it tell you? A god boasts about the capability to outsmart humans? And then I ask what other planners and designers? How many are there?
-
How would I know what you will say? Am I a god
OK, so then what does it tell you? A god boasts about the capability to outsmart humans? And then I ask what other planners and designers? How many are there?
No, but you can deduce. I'm saying that because it seems natural to me - maybe not to everyone. No offense intended.
It tells me that we can trust in Allah's designs and plans - it's like saying He is all-knowing. It's not boasting, it's stating the reality as described within the Quran. I don't get your second question. The verse is in reference to Isa - when he is about to be murdered.
-
Good that somebody has come up with another name of God which is not widely acknowledged.
To me te meaning is plain in the context we must not fear what people may plot or plan. God always outplans and outplots anything or anybody, so, again, we are in His hands and never, never in other hands than His hands.
Salaam
-
No, but you can deduce. I'm saying that because it seems natural to me - maybe not to everyone. No offense intended.
It tells me that we can trust in Allah's designs and plans - it's like saying He is all-knowing. It's not boasting, it's stating the reality as described within the Quran. I don't get your second question. The verse is in reference to Isa - when he is about to be murdered.
Well, let's just say that when it comes to clarifying something I want to be precise and understand exactly what we are talking about.
I am one of those who don't accept any all-something. All-knowing would mean that a god would know what he will do tomorrow. And because he knows he will perform action x, it can't be action z. Because then he would know it's not x, but z. That would mean this god could not decide what to do on a whim and could never change his mind. There would no judgement as all outcomes would already be known.
It says "Allah schemed (against them) and Allah is the best of schemers." So my question is If a god schemes against people and then says I am the best! I am the best of all schemers! that means there are other schemers which are being compared. Would a god compare himself to a human? Hardly. So there must be other godly schemers around. Just like it says in 2314 "the best of the creators", where humans would hardly be called creators. It is one of the many puzzles in the Koran.
-
Well, let's just say that when it comes to clarifying something I want to be precise and understand exactly what we are talking about.
I am one of those who don't accept any all-something. All-knowing would mean that a god would know what he will do tomorrow. And because he knows he will perform action x, it can't be action z. Because then he would know it's not x, but z. That would mean this god could not decide what to do on a whim and could never change his mind. There would no judgement as all outcomes would already be known.
It says "Allah schemed (against them) and Allah is the best of schemers." So my question is If a god schemes against people and then says I am the best! I am the best of all schemers! that means there are other schemers which are being compared. Would a god compare himself to a human? Hardly. So there must be other godly schemers around. Just like it says in 2314 "the best of the creators", where humans would hardly be called creators. It is one of the many puzzles in the Koran.
When you say that you don't accept that idea or possible idea of all-knowing and so forth in relation to God, it seems to me like you have your mind made up. You have thought about it and come to your own conclusion. My question is why do you want to know my points on these issues? Do you want to know so you can better respond to religious arguments? The reason I ask is because, lets face it, some people are only online or offline for that matter to argue with each other.
The Deity is not comparing Himself to a human. There are only so many ways we can understand His attributes. He is saying that He has certain attributes that we can understand as divine or absolute. The way to describe these to us as human beings is to say you can see all of these things around you, like the power of some humans beings or natural forces, the magnificence of the Earth and Universe, but these are still things with limitations whereas The Deity's attributes go far beyond that and that He created these things.
I feel I already answered this and so did Huruf because the context there is important as it is clearly stating that human beings may plot evil or disturbing things, but don't fear them. The Deity is your Protector. The Deity also says He is the most Just of Judges. How would The Deity tell us that He is to Judge us and this attribute is divine? By saying, The Deity's attributes are Divine. Otherwise it would be there is no attribute of The Deity's that you can fathom. Human beings can judge, human beings can create, we can love people, we can gain power and authority. We are endowed these abilities, from the Quran's perspective, by The Deity. We can create things for positive ends or negative ends as well etc.
I think when you say that human beings are hardly creators - I don't think you will agree with my answer. I also think most people would disagree and say we do create/innovate. One of our unique characteristics as humans is creating things that has not been before on this Earth.
I really feel like I am repeating myself. And you seem very certain of your own position StopS. This only shines through in your videos as well. So do you want my opinion simply as an opinion? Just to see the response?
-
When you say that you don't accept that idea or possible idea of all-knowing and so forth in relation to God, it seems to me like you have your mind made up. You have thought about it and come to your own conclusion. My question is why do you want to know my points on these issues? Do you want to know so you can better respond to religious arguments? The reason I ask is because, lets face it, some people are only online or offline for that matter to argue with each other.
No, there is no hidden agenda here. I am just curious to know why people believe what they believe. Yes, indeed, I have thought about it and and some point I think you should commit to something and not sway like a flag in the wind all the time. But I am still curious about a) what others think and b) whether I am right.
The Deity is not comparing Himself to a human. There are only so many ways we can understand His attributes. He is saying that He has certain attributes that we can understand as divine or absolute. The way to describe these to us as human beings is to say you can see all of these things around you, like the power of some humans beings or natural forces, the magnificence of the Earth and Universe, but these are still things with limitations whereas The Deity's attributes go far beyond that and that He created these things.
I feel I already answered this and so did Huruf because the context there is important as it is clearly stating that human beings may plot evil or disturbing things, but don't fear them. The Deity is your Protector. The Deity also says He is the most Just of Judges. How would The Deity tell us that He is to Judge us and this attribute is divine? By saying, The Deity's attributes are Divine. Otherwise it would be there is no attribute of The Deity's that you can fathom. Human beings can judge, human beings can create, we can love people, we can gain power and authority. We are endowed these abilities, from the Quran's perspective, by The Deity. We can create things for positive ends or negative ends as well etc.
I think when you say that human beings are hardly creators - I don't think you will agree with my answer. I also think most people would disagree and say we do create/innovate. One of our unique characteristics as humans is creating things that has not been before on this Earth.
I really feel like I am repeating myself. And you seem very certain of your own position StopS. This only shines through in your videos as well. So do you want my opinion simply as an opinion? Just to see the response?
What do you mean by "magnificence of the Earth and Universe"? Some things can look beautiful - but these are harsh and volatile environments and completely lethal for humans. I also don't understand what you mean by "The Deity's attributes" and then "far beyond that and that He created these things". But maybe it's not that important.
I am trying to understand. I am trying to understand you. In my videos I talk about errors and mistakes people make. People who are unable to communicate or are unwilling to do so. Here I am not looking at things superficially, but can go to greater depths and do this on a personal, interactive mode.
Now, I thought I was very clear and have provided several examples and I am at a loss to explain this somehow.
- Allah is the best of schemers
- the best of the creators
If someone is the best at something there must be others which are compared to this, otherwise it makes no sense. If nobody on this planet lies, it does not make sense to say I am the best of the liars, because I am the only one. So my question is who are the others in the 2 sentences I gave you as examples?
-
No, there is no hidden agenda here. I am just curious to know why people believe what they believe. Yes, indeed, I have thought about it and and some point I think you should commit to something and not sway like a flag in the wind all the time. But I am still curious about a) what others think and b) whether I am right.
I never said there was a hidden agenda. Are you saying I should commit to something and not sway like a flag? Or are you saying saying that in a general sense of the word "you"? Fair enough. Our answers may still not be satisfying to you, which is ok but I'm saying that as I think that's what might be happening here. Or maybe someone else can provide you with a different answer that will help.
What do you mean by "magnificence of the Earth and Universe"? Some things can look beautiful - but these are harsh and volatile environments and completely lethal for humans. I also don't understand what you mean by "The Deity's attributes" and then "far beyond that and that He created these things". But maybe it's not that important.
I mean even within the dangerous parts - there is still wonder and awe. Black holes may be very dangerous but that doesn't mean physicists aren't captivated by them. Magnificence of created things does not necessarily mean positive, at least not to me.
I'm not sure what you mean either... lol. Looking back at my post - I'm referring to the way in which attributes are either limited or Divine.
I am trying to understand. I am trying to understand you. In my videos I talk about errors and mistakes people make. People who are unable to communicate or are unwilling to do so. Here I am not looking at things superficially, but can go to greater depths and do this on a personal, interactive mode.
Fair enough.
Now, I thought I was very clear and have provided several examples and I am at a loss to explain this somehow.
- Allah is the best of schemers
- the best of the creators
If someone is the best at something there must be others which are compared to this, otherwise it makes no sense. If nobody on this planet lies, it does not make sense to say I am the best of the liars, because I am the only one. So my question is who are the others in the 2 sentences I gave you as examples?
I thought I explained this... as did Huruf. I'll try explaining again and Insha'Allah it will be clearer this time if it was not before. If you look at the verses in question, lets stick with the first one, best of planners, schemers, designers, then it's referring to the story of Isa and the verse about the protection Allah will give Isa. So the planners in that case would be those Isa needs to escape. It could be any planners though. Those who plan disturbed things etc. So human beings are a creation that can plan and do things like that, these qualities we have are limited though. Allah's abilities are Divine so that's why you see often the word Most being used e.g. Most Wise. Human beings can be wise as well but this would be a human or more limited attribute. That's not to say we aren't very capable beings! I also said about the best of creators before, I said that I do think we create things etc. I think I know what you mean by the issue of comparison but I view it as there are a set of attributes that many things can possess created things and God. the created things have limited attributes and the Creator is not bound by that limitation so words such as Most, Best are used. If He wasn't the Best at that then things would easily start to fall apart etc.
I hope this helps!
Salaam.
-
I never said there was a hidden agenda.
To me this seems to mean that "The reason I ask is because, lets face it, some people are only online or offline for that matter to argue with each other."
Are you saying I should commit to something and not sway like a flag? Or are you saying saying that in a general sense of the word "you"? Fair enough. Our answers may still not be satisfying to you, which is ok but I'm saying that as I think that's what might be happening here. Or maybe someone else can provide you with a different answer that will help.
Do I need to repeat this? I think there are times when you should make up your mind about something and stick to it instead of always running after something seemingly more appealing.
I can't make any sense from the "Our answers" but I will not overthink that.
I mean even within the dangerous parts - there is still wonder and awe. Black holes may be very dangerous but that doesn't mean physicists aren't captivated by them. Magnificence of created things does not necessarily mean positive, at least not to me.
I was not aware that magnificent can mean dangerous, but if it does for you, ok.
I'm not sure what you mean either... lol. Looking back at my post - I'm referring to the way in which attributes are either limited or Divine.
Don't worry, you probably just wrote something without thinking any further.
I thought I explained this... as did Huruf. I'll try explaining again and Insha'Allah it will be clearer this time if it was not before. If you look at the verses in question, lets stick with the first one, best of planners, schemers, designers, then it's referring to the story of Isa and the verse about the protection Allah will give Isa. So the planners in that case would be those Isa needs to escape. It could be any planners though. Those who plan disturbed things etc. So human beings are a creation that can plan and do things like that, these qualities we have are limited though. Allah's abilities are Divine so that's why you see often the word Most being used e.g. Most Wise. Human beings can be wise as well but this would be a human or more limited attribute. That's not to say we aren't very capable beings! I also said about the best of creators before, I said that I do think we create things etc. I think I know what you mean by the issue of comparison but I view it as there are a set of attributes that many things can possess created things and God. the created things have limited attributes and the Creator is not bound by that limitation so words such as Most, Best are used. If He wasn't the Best at that then things would easily start to fall apart etc.
I hope this helps!
Salaam.
Well, I have told you several times now that neither one of you explained it )
And again, you are not answering my question, but going into some tafsir mode, explaining the sentences and the context and everything except my question.
No, it does not help, but never mind. Thanks for your effort. -
To me this seems to mean that "The reason I ask is because, lets face it, some people are only online or offline for that matter to argue with each other."
Nope. I said that because some people enjoy the tussle of an argument and have a fixed position. They just enjoy the process that argument and debate can have.
Do I need to repeat this? I think there are times when you should make up your mind about something and stick to it instead of always running after something seemingly more appealing.
I can't make any sense from the "Our answers" but I will not overthink that.
"Our answers" means anyone on this forum. We may have different opinions. That's why I then said "or" - because I thought I should leave room for that in case someone else may be able to provide you with an alternative answer.
I was not aware that magnificent can mean dangerous, but if it does for you, ok.
Magnificent can mean spectacular. A volcano, for example, can be called spectacular.
Don't worry, you probably just wrote something without thinking any further.
What is that supposed to mean? I apologise if I came across rude in anyway earlier. But this is coming across as rude to me.
Well, I have told you several times now that neither one of you explained it )
And again, you are not answering my question, but going into some tafsir mode, explaining the sentences and the context and everything except my question.
No, it does not help, but never mind. Thanks for your effort.I sincerely tried to help. I have several tasks to get on with today and I specifically took time out to read over my post and check that it as least made some sort of sense. I felt like I did answer your question - if I did not, there is nothing more I can do. I tried my best with it. I feel like the thanks is a curt response after what you have said. Again, I apologise if I came across rude in any way.
I think you are right - we don't need to continue this. Both of us have tried to answer each other and it appears we do not share any common ground on this topic. Salaam.
-
So reconciliation was not possible then.