New but not new to the views.

Man_of_Faith

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful,

Peace RidaKhan,

First I am going to start by saying, I was able, in odd ways, to dodge the censorship and go online on free-minds.org, thanks God for this browser alternative.

You are right in the regard that Arabic is not my primary language, but you seem to have misunderstood my point in the post you read, since you said I tried to claim that Mu?min is the same as Muslim or translate into this, which I never did. I tried to define the word Muslim according to my knowledge, which is something like Peacemaker and the words Islam, Muslim and Salaam come from the root S L M. It does not take an expert to draw these conclusions I did, and I did not make this discovery on my own, credit is to people on this forum. I think the word Peacemaker/Submitter is still not the right choice to properly define Muslim, but something like Truth-seeker or similar.

One does not have to be a Muslim to grasp the Message which all messengers came with and they all brought the same Message with some adjustments to the contents. Following the basic principles of the religion of God is simple, it means believing in God alone and the Hereafter, and to be a righteous believer. The Quran is a good book to guide people to be righteous, but this does not mean a man or a woman cannot be living in the Light of God without it.

You are right in many ways, and I knew most of what you wrote already, but it was well written to the depth of it, I could learn at least a thing or two from it. The only problem is that this boastful contentment with the Quran has rendered you slightly arrogant to the extent of denying all the existing religions (sects) in the world. You do not have to be speaking and writing Arabic to grasp God?s Message, which has been on since before religious guidance was offered from the Quran, some people in past times were righteous and they did not have the Quran. One does only have to follow the principles I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
The Bible, in its partial impurity, is still a valid scripture and you can live quite well, by following which can be considered righteousness from it. I was following the Message the Bible (Torah/Gospel) carried before I stumbled onto the Quran and I cannot say I was on a highway to Hell before I did so, I saw through Satan?s tricks with the trinity and invented stories about Jesus and I was a monotheist believer even then. I had never even taken my eyes upon the Quran before that and read the warnings about Jesus and the belief in the trinity.

Please do not get me wrong, the Quran is a most excellent book, perfectly detailed and it is not seemingly biased, its Message can be understood even with a quite poorly translated Quran, which was the case with my Abdullah Yusuf Ali?s translation from 1938. It was the time I embraced ?Islam? and acknowledged this Message as coming from God, when I read it about three years ago. Even before I read it I was blessed by the Lord and it was surely His will that I met a woman of Muslim origin and married her, and got my hands on the Quran.

I would thus not call myself unguided before I begun studying the Quran and in this regard I was already a ?Muslim? (perhaps Truth-seeker?) before I did so, because this term does not have to do with the Quran. It is a man?s path to seek inner peace through God?s inspiration and this is what the name God wants to present in the Quran, and it does not have anything to do with having a sort of uniqueness to people who embrace Islam. That is why before one has not reached this inner peace you are called Muslim but not a Mu?min.

If we want to classify ourselves by the ?name? Muslims, through the name Islam, we break God?s commandment of not divide ourselves into sects, because it is what it is, at least if we think it is a special religion exclusive to those who call themselves Muslim.

I must thank you for providing me with some additional information which I did not know, or if I did know it, you put new light to it, you had me thinking, even if I have not changed my mind regarding my perception of the Truth, as I am most certain about it.

You said that I put Believer into a generic form, I say that I choose this neutral term because it means just as it is usually perceived, as someone who believes in God, since there is only one God, one religion, thus making the term Muslim less attractive, if one wants to be open to the world. Now that you do say that Mu?min is not believer in this regard I am sure either the translation of the verse which refers to when one should call himself/herself a Mu?min is either mistranslated or you are giving me misinformation. If your heart is not absolutely certain about the Truth, then you are not a Mu?min, and most people seem not to be that. One has to reach a peace of mind through the Lord, to get this ?label?, but this is the most righteous term to define oneself, I translate it into Believer with a capital B because I have a lack in other words to describe it right now, but if you have another term which defines it better then go ahead and tell me.

Source in Quran 4914-15 (I read more than one translation/interpretation and also asked my wife)

This verse, as well as many others, hints at Muslim just being a definition and not a proper name. Therefore, (true) Believer feels more appropriate than creating just another sect through Islam, which is also not a name but a way of living (to reach inner peace).

Of course I could elaborate this whole thing, but I know you already know what it means to have a balanced soul and be on God?s side.

This whole viewpoint leads us to the common stereotypical argument, that we are right while they are wrong, does that make us righteous people?

If it would be possible, if my passport had this information, to state my religion, I would have wanted it to say ?the religion of God? or ?God?s religion?, since it is the most accurate term. There is only one religion and that is God?s religion. Creating religious sects is just causing additional imbalance in the peace of the Earth, hence I free myself of the boundaries of a specific religion. If you want to call me ?Other? as religion, then please go ahead and do it, but I would say that it is Christian, Jew, Muslim etc, which is in the ?Other? category. For non-other, the choice is God?s religion. So it is either God?s religion or ?Other?.

If you believe there is only one God and found the true Path, then you are not locked to a religion (sect), but ?locked? to God, He is your Master. If you want to call yourself Muslim, then you better do it with the right intention, but I prefer to use simply a Believer, who grasped the whole Message, and acknowledge the Message as the Truth, the Message of all messengers that ever put their feet on the face of the Earth. Hence I chose Believer as my definition, or Mu?meen. I chose the nickname on this forum with the same thing on my mind, ?Man of Faith?, there are probably dozens of names which can describe the same state of consciousness.

I have heard the English definition ?Submitter? for Muslim and perhaps this is the correct choice before you become a ?Mu?min, but of course it is difficult to simply translate the words from Arabic as they lose some of their meaning. Truth-seeker or some other way to define the words in English may be necessary.

I hope I, by posting this, do not ignite immense fury and we can peacefully settle possible disagreements and that we respect each other. I accept your choice to call yourself Muslim, but just do not get fixated with it being a unique name for a member of the religion Islam, since even a righteous Christian could most probably be a Muslim. I tried to be as respectful as I could and I apologize in advance if I still stirred up some negative emotions.

I am aware that I was using slightly accusing words at some portions of the text, but I still appreciate your knowledge and I am respectful of it. Your Arabic is certainly better than mine, but we must still contemplate the Quran?s true meaning. I respect the translations I have read and I am sure they did their utmost to present it as accurate as they could, considering Arabic is used in a completely different way than English. And I study the original Arabic Quran together with those who are more knowledgeable in Arabic than I am.

Also, I apologize for the length of this post, I feel as I could ramble on forever, but I am misusing both my time and yours. I could, God willing, cover everything I wanted through this post, unless additional questions arise.

Finally, I would like to praise God for being so gracious, most merciful.

God bless you RidaKhan and everyone else that may be reading this post

supportpeacenotwar

NOTE Most people here are defining themselves via their religious views. Let me just break the tradition.

It's sort of funny how most of you guys came to this website to learn about Islam (apparently from a Quranic perspective), but then got into heated (or not so heated) discussions and even got to the stage of constructing an "online- dating" space for 'Quranists'...?

That was fast lol.

Khair I am Rida Khan. I was born in Pakistan, but I was 3 years old when I moved to Japan, making Japanese my first language. I did part of my primary education there and lived in the cities of Amami Oshima, Tsukuba and Tokyo. I later migrated to Pakistan and completed my primary education there while learning about my dominant culture, its languages and traditions. I migrated to Australia in 2005, grew up in a country town and completed my high school there. In 2012, I moved to Melbourne to complete my undergrad studies.

I am a production and reflections of the cultures I lived in and the people I met. My multi- lingual abilities have allowed me to explore Quran and Islam in ways that most people may not be able to due to the lack of diversity. I am neither Western, nor Eastern. I do not call myself a feminist as I believe in fighting for the rights of all human beings equally rather than just women. I do not role model any one, but admire many for their good work.

Welcome to the forum. welcome
I have quite a few things in common with you.
I actually don't identify as Western or Eastern either and I don't label myself as feminist - it might be counterproductive in terms of how people view some of the causes.

I don't think I am here to date anyone simply because they are not likely to be in Australia and I don't do long-distance relationships. And the fact that most people have jobs in the country they are living in and are unlikely to move just because they met someone in the internet world. Sure, there are romantics out there. But after a hell of dating both online and face to face, I am just not so sure. If we meet, great. If we don't, my guess is we will do just fine.

I didn't realise people viewed this as a dating site. I didn't even notice the "matrimony" section until some "recent posts" popped up there.

MY VIEWS

There are so many things that I am not. A bad person? Hope not. I refuse to call myself a Quranist or a follower of Quranism, or Ahl-e-Quran, or Anti- hadith to the extent of disrespectful and hateful of those who follow hadiths. I am not a Quran-aloner, God- aloner and Prophet Muhammad is not my "father" and neither are his wives my "mother/s". Some non- Muslims label me as a "humanist", even though my views are based on the teachings of Quran which indeed is a guide book for humanity. Am I a Capitalist? No. Anarchist? No. Any other form of 'ist' = no. I am liberal, but not a libertarian and nor am I a hijabi (the most messed up label of the 21st century). I do not like to be called "Parwezi" just because I admire and appreciate the works of Ghulam Ahmed Parwez. How would you like to be called 'Akonian' for listening to the rap songs by Akon? Chamak Challo?... Seriously dude. People just like to label everyone and everything allowing media to throw on more jargon towards Islam and Muslims.

I find there is a very negative attitude towards those following hadiths in any shape or form sometimes. I wonder how these people are much different from the people who have a similar negative attitude to "us". Some people even say that people in Arab countries etc are facing war and bloodshed because they are because of following hadiths, like a punishment? How do we know that? And what if believers are caught up in it? It just seems very inappropriate and cruel given what the Quran says and how it is Allah who knows best the challenges He brings forth for people. It reminds me of what Prophet Job went through, and how some people even abandoned him.

Above all, if you all really, honestly, absolutely believe that Quran is the word of the Divine. And that as Muslims our purpose in the world is to work towards World Peace. Then, be prepared to compromise and stand firm to keep peace.

What do you mean by compromise? There really is a distinction, at times, from attempting to please or appease people, atheists lets say. I find this is a group that people can easily end up trying to "appease" if they are religious. In fact, I've seen some Atheists who have commented back about my views - negatively and as though they are offended - about ridicule of certain things religious people do (I think it was about songs that religious people may write during times of hardship and then simply ridiculing this), but these same people think its ok for them to say whatever they want about anything and ridicule it etc. so, why would it be an issue for me to raise questions about what they do? I'm not sure if you meant appease when you said compromise, I'm just mentioning a point that came to mind.

And yes, that does mean that we need to work in conjunction with the mainstream Muslim community, NOT against them. Universal unity is an Islamic goal, not grouping down into more sects. And I emphasize this more towards the new breed of converted Muslims in the Western world, with all due respect to their inputs towards Islam.

I agree, they might need to meet us half way though.

Emil

Any other form of 'ist' = no.

introspectionist?

No?

Emil

ps. Welcome

Awaal_Muslim

Well, i hope you enjoy your trip. But it seems from your background that you are not a first language Arabic speaker, as you stated the meanings and the root words of both Muslim and Momin wrong. And I state the following to expand your Arabic knowledge, as many out there are not aware of the classical Arabic literature.

The word Muslim is derived from the word Islam, and with the word Islam, the focus is on the letters Seen- Lam- Meem. Following is a detailed description of the various scholars and the linguists.

All the basic meanings are taken from Moheet, Taj and Lane; these are eight in number-
Salema means he got purified from all the defects, shortcomings; all the shortcomings are complemented. Verse (Quran verse 2/71) refers to the cow that is perfect and without any defect, so its basic meanings are to get well and perfect, complete in all respects so that no defect remains.

To remain safe from all dangers, accidents, mishaps. Ibn-e-Faris says that its basic meanings are more inclined towards perfection in health, safety and security. As-Sal'am is also one of the names of Allah used in the Quran (59/23) which means free from all defects and shortcomings and who faces no danger from anything. The author of Taj-ul-Urus, however, disagrees with this and says that Sal'amun means someone from whom safety and security is sought. Sal'am is one of the names of Allah, as He has kept the entire creation safe from all catastrophes and His System and Laws are in operation with perfection.

As-Sullamu means a ladder used to reach some high place and is safe and dependable. So the third meanings are the ways and means by which someone can reach the heights with confidence.

As-Silmu (2/20 means one who lives with peace and order and also maintains peace and order. Tasalamat-il-Khailo means horses who march in step; no horse creates any trouble or mischief - all are in one step. This explains the Islamic System. As-Silmu-wa-As-Salamu means to be obedient, to bow, to surrender. So the fifth basic meanings are to bow to and obey the Laws of Allah in totality. Nawab Siddique Hasan Khan writes that the basic meanings contain the element of humility and softness.

Is-Taslama Sakamat-Tareeq means one who walked in the middle of the path and did not deviate from it. Qaloo Salama means who leads or takes up the middle path, does not look either side and avoids obscene things or lewdness. So the sixth meanings of this root are to adopt a balanced way and avoid obscenities, filthiness, indecency, and immodesty.

Is-Talam-az-Zaru means the crop has ripened. So the seventh meanings of this root are a system under which efforts bear fruit. As-Salimatu is a woman whose hands, feet and limbs are soft, beautiful and in perfect shape. So the eighth meanings of this root are beauty and elegance.

To sum up, Al-Islam means a system or code of life which-
Removes all the shortcomings of a person and enables him to develop all his potentialities.
Safeguards him from all the dangers, catastrophes and degradations of life, and
marches him on towards higher evolutionary stages of life. Enables not only himself to lead a peaceful life but also helps maintain peace and order around him and in the whole world.
Trains him to live in harmony among other fellow beings and not to commit any act by which someone else gets enraged or upset.

So like you said the "peacemaker" but by following ONLY Quran alone. (and using knowledge, 'ilm' to help consolidate the Quranic views/ Islamic social order).

So Islam is that code of life which has been revealed by Allah for the mankind. There is no other code acceptable to Him. In Surah 'Ale-Imran (3), verse 82, Quran says, "Do those people desire some different Deen than the one ordained by Allah?" At another place, "Whereas whatever is there in the universe follows the way which leads to the goal set for them by Allah" (13/15). At yet another place, "If someone adopts a way other than this, it will not be acceptable and in the end he will be the loser" (3/84). This is the Code which was revealed to various Anbia from time to time and its final and complete form to Rasool Allah (peace be upon him) and this code has been selected for the entire mankind. This code of life has been named Al-Islam and the followers of this Code are called Muslimeen. A Muslim is he, who accepts the Holy Quran as the one and only, complete and final Code revealed by Allah for the mankind.

NOW as for the word "Momin". It actually originates from the word "Aman". Ask any Urdu/ Sanskrit speakers and they will reassure you that Aman means "Peace". Thus Momin is a person who practices peace in Sub-continental language. You may argue that it is not Arabic, thus I will give you the Quran word "Ei'man" from which the word Momin is derived from. The root word for Eiman are Alif- Meem- Noon.

Amnun means peace, safety, state of mind where one feels safe from fear or danger (2/24). Also when one feels safe, secure and at peace. Ibn-e-Faris says that its basic meanings are-
Peace of mind. To testify. The opposite of dishonesty.

Amana is to satisfy someone and put him at ease without fear, to provide peace or protection to someone, to take over the responsibilities of someone's protection (Taj).

Aitimanun is to trust someone, have confidence on someone, take someone as trustee or protector (Taj).

Naq'atun Amoon is a she-camel which is dependable by virtue of her qualities and can take one through the journey without getting weak or falling down after stumbling (Taj).

Momin is one who stands guarantee for peace, upon whom one can depend, rely and then rest at peace, one who guarantee international peace (Taj).
Amanat is something which is entrusted to someone (Moheet).
Ameen is one who is contended, at peace, trustworthy, reliable, dependable.
Baladun Ameen is a city where peace and security prevails (Makkah)(95/3).

Muqamun Ameen is a place which provides adequate provisions of protection and security (44/52).
To declare Ei'man, therefore, means-
To believe, admit, accept or not to reject.
To testify the truthfulness, not to contradict.
To have confidence, reliance, trust.
To accept, to obey, to bow in obedience.

According to the Holy Quran, Ei'man on the following five fundamental entities is needed in order to become a Momin (2/177)-
The Allah.
The Law of Mukaf'at and the life Hereafter.
The Malaika.
The revealed Books.
The Anbia.

And Momin is one who accepts the truth and acts in such a way that it ensures his own peace and helps him to safeguard the peace and security of the rest of mankind. Indeed, Al-Momin is one of the most important Attributes of Allah Himself.

Personally I wouldn't call myself a "Momin" simply because Momin is an attribute to Allah and also because I do not believe I have done enough good deeds to achieve a status like that of Momin. Thus, I simply call myself a Muslim, i.e a follower of Islam and its holy book Quran.

Umm... I sort of have a feeling, you also believe that "Malaika" means "Angels" and "Shaitan" means the "Devil"...? Yes?... Even though, the both concepts Angels and Shaitan are neither Islamic and nor rational. And certainly derived from the Christian concepts of Angels and Satan. Will discuss further, if you are interested. In my understanding, not only the word Muslim translates as the follower of Islam and Quran, but also as a Believer of the guidelines of the Quran. You tend to put the the term "believer" in a more generic form.

I still do not understand which religion you identify yourself as on your passport. My guess is still "Other".

Salaam Rida

Correction 2177 is about Mutaqoon.

More likely description for a Momin can be find in

The believers are only those who, when Allah is mentioned, their hearts become fearful, and when His verses are recited to them, it increases them in faith; and upon their Lord they rely. 82

The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, , "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the destination." 2285

The only statement of the believers when they are called to Allah and His Messenger to judge between them is that they say, "We hear and we obey." And those are the successful. 2451

Why would not you consider yourself Momin, when Allah is addressing you as a Momin.

O you who have believed, fear Allah as He should be feared and do not die except as Muslims . 3102

Peace

Man_of_Faith

Salaam Awaal_Muslim,

Thanks for helping the Truth to be spread. Of course you are a Mu?min (or true "Believer&quot if you are absolutely certain about God and His amazing world. 4914-15 give a good definition of a Mu?min too.

In a way we are all Muslims due to the meaning of the term, even if we turned into Momeen. I think we work through our whole life seeking to extend our knowledge. Yet we must remember they are just descriptive words, not names. We belong to God's religion, not man-made inventions in the case of religious sects. Islam is still a description, if you know what I mean.

God bless you and thanks for your input again

Awaal_Muslim

Salaam Awaal_Muslim,

Thanks for helping the Truth to be spread. Of course you are a Mu?min (or true "Believer&quot if you are absolutely certain about God and His amazing world. 4914-15 give a good definition of a Mu?min too.

In a way we are all Muslims due to the meaning of the term, even if we turned into Momeen. I think we work through our whole life seeking to extend our knowledge. Yet we must remember they are just descriptive words, not names. We belong to God's religion, not man-made inventions in the case of religious sects. Islam is still a description, if you know what I mean.

God bless you and thanks for your input again

Salaam Man of Faith

You stated that "In a way we are all Muslims due to the meaning of the term, even if we turned into Momeen" - However, Quran addresses it slightly differently

According to Quran, Ibraheem with Ismael (PBUH) praying to Allah after being having prophet-hood

Our Lord, and make us Muslims to You and from our descendants a Muslim nation to You. And show us our rites and accept our repentance. Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. 2128

according to the ayat Ibraheem (pbuh) did not presume himself a Muslim, even though he was the prophet of Allah, a friend of Allah, the leader of the mankind and the father of the religion. So when you say the Muslim is descriptive, yes indeed, but it is Allah who make us Muslim named us Muslim 2278. Our job is to live our lives according to Allah's Guidance and amend/correct constantly to achieve the status of a Muslim on the day of judgement. For example we can not become a Doctor until we pass the exam. A Muslim can not be other than a Muslim.

However Quran does addresses the believers and warn them about the Non-believer. so there are labelled believers, but not labelled Muslims.

And when they meet those who believe, they say, "We believe"; but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say, "Indeed, we are with you; we were only mockers. 214

Allah's messenger's practice to Balligh/Proclaim/Announce Allah's Message but never his own ideology, which is very frequent on this forum. I believe we need to follow Messenger's practice, when we relate things to Allah. According to ayats below

There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah often. 3321

O Messenger, announce (balligh) that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people. 567

Refer back to your statement "Of course you are a Mu?min (or true "Believer&quot if you are absolutely certain about God and His amazing world."

I believe that being a believer is about continuously correcting oneself according to Allah's revelation.

But they who believe and correct/amend themselves(amanoowaAAamiloo assalihati) - those are the companions of Paradise; they will abide therein eternally. 282

According to the ayat below Believers are in manifest error, until Allah favor upon them. Therefore, one can not be absolutely certain until Allah's favor upon them.

Certainly did Allah confer favor upon the believers when He sent among them a Messenger from themselves, reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom, although they had been before in manifest error. 3164

Further Allah explains how the messengers/prophets correct themselves

And thus did We show Abraham the realm of the heavens and the earth that he would be among the certain . So when the night covered him , he saw a star. He said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "I like not those that disappear." And when he saw the moon rising, he said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "Unless my Lord guides me, I will surely be among the people gone astray." And when he saw the sun rising, he said, "This is my lord; this is greater." But when it set, he said, "O my people, indeed I am free from what you associate with Allah. Indeed, I have turned my face toward He who created the heavens and the earth, inclining toward truth, and I am not of those who associate others with Allah ." 675-79

And remember Our servant Job, when he called to his Lord, "Indeed, Satan has touched me with hardship and torment." , "Strike with your foot; this is a a cool bath and drink."And We granted him his family and a like with them as mercy from Us and a reminder for those of understanding. 341-43

Peace

Aamer

This is one of the reasons I call myself Quranist. In my association with Muslims, they appreciate the fact that I'm open and honest about my views. I don't pretend as if there are no differences between us then hijack their platform to air my own views. I see other quranists doing that and I will not be part of that dishonest approach. Having a label does not mean being sectarian. Usually it's the opposite, those who refuse any kind of labels, calling themselves 'muslim only' are those who claim other Muslims are disbelievers or polytheists. I won't play that game.

I agree with this logic. I call myself a Quranist Muslim to distance myself from Sunni Islam. Unfortunately Sunnis have hijacked the label of "Muslim". Personally I don't care to associate myself with those who oppress women, condone the murder of apostates and disbelievers, claim the Prophet Muhammad was a child molester, abrogate verses of Quran, etc.

When someone asks my religion, I say "Quranist Muslim". This prompts them to ask what that is and gives me the opportunity to explain. This method feels comfortable and congruent to me. But I have no problem with those who feel comfortable labeling themselves as Muslim, believer or whatever. And I also agree that Quranist is not a new sect. It really is the original before other books and political alliances divided Muslims. The word Quranist is simply a better way to describe our beliefs. Just my opinion. Peace.

Man_of_Faith

Salaam Awaal_Muslim,

Thanks for your elaboration. I think you may have misunderstood my point or I may have expressed myself poorly. Or I cannot grasp what you wanted to highlight now.

I said that you may be a Truthseeker your whole life, even if you have come to a peace of mind and are absolutely certain about the Truth, thus being a true Believer (Mu?min). I am always open to better suggestions on how to refer to this.

I have a feeling we have the same understanding, but I am happy to read your words on this.

It is the monotone referral of the Believers as Muslims I was after since it is a description and not a name. I think we meant the same thing, basically.

God bless you

RidaKhan

Hey there Man of Faith

Sorry for the way over-due reply, got caught up with uni holidays. )

Look, I absolutely respect your choice of calling yourself a Quranist and thinking that Quran is a universal book, however of course, I may just have to agree to disagree at the label of calling oneself a Quranist. I prefer to call myself a Muslim. I guess partly because calling oneself a Muslim gives you a sense of belonging and identity. And we have learnt that from evolution of human wanting to belong to a particular tribe.

I do recommend that you learn Arabic though if you really admire Quran that much. I don't know, it maybe handy. Personally, I like to study hebrew some day because i want to read the Torah/ Talmud in hebrew. )

RidaKhan

What do you mean by compromise? There really is a distinction, at times, from attempting to please or appease people, atheists lets say. I find this is a group that people can easily end up trying to "appease" if they are religious. In fact, I've seen some Atheists who have commented back about my views - negatively and as though they are offended - about ridicule of certain things religious people do (I think it was about songs that religious people may write during times of hardship and then simply ridiculing this), but these same people think its ok for them to say whatever they want about anything and ridicule it etc. so, why would it be an issue for me to raise questions about what they do? I'm not sure if you meant appease when you said compromise, I'm just mentioning a point that came to mind.

Hey there supportpeacenotwar-

Apologies for the late reply, I know compromise can be a manipulative word at times. But i had suggest that it is important to recognise the actions/ intention of the person/ group you are compromising with. For example,
I could never compromise with Saudi Arabian/ wahabis to legally making it difficult for women to seek divorce/ drive/ stopping them from going out of the house etc. I will not, and can not compromise with the injustice and oppression of these men over the women. At times, I can also not compromise with those Atheists who think "all" religious belief is nothing but a fairytale and everyone who has a religion is stupid. Of course, their ignorance is not something I can compromise with.

But I can compromise with people/ groups who are practicing their beliefs without inflicting pain onto others either psychological or physically. A group that I can not compromise with as a Muslim/ Human is perhaps the practice of the cast system in Hinduism. I am okay with their idolatry practice, their dance/rituals (as long as it is not harming the environment which is not the case with the current condition of the Ganges river) but i can compromise with certain Hindus who usually tend to pick and choose parts of hinduism that may assimilate with their lives.

Of course, no two people can ever agree on everything all the time even if they belong to the same sect/tribal clan. Again, as humans we shall compromise on those practices/ beliefs which are not harming other directly. At this moment in time, I sit here silently, compromising with the billions of people who do not agree with my beliefs. I am not saying that my relationship with God is personal, I dont think my relationship with God can ever be personal for as long as we humans live in system called a "society" where we have to contribute to qualify as being a member.

To put it simply, compromise with everything but injustice done to others- people, environment, animals.

supportpeacenotwar

Hey there supportpeacenotwar-

Apologies for the late reply, I know compromise can be a manipulative word at times. But i had suggest that it is important to recognise the actions/ intention of the person/ group you are compromising with. For example,
I could never compromise with Saudi Arabian/ wahabis to legally making it difficult for women to seek divorce/ drive/ stopping them from going out of the house etc. I will not, and can not compromise with the injustice and oppression of these men over the women. At times, I can also not compromise with those Atheists who think "all" religious belief is nothing but a fairytale and everyone who has a religion is stupid. Of course, their ignorance is not something I can compromise with.

But I can compromise with people/ groups who are practicing their beliefs without inflicting pain onto others either psychological or physically. A group that I can not compromise with as a Muslim/ Human is perhaps the practice of the cast system in Hinduism. I am okay with their idolatry practice, their dance/rituals (as long as it is not harming the environment which is not the case with the current condition of the Ganges river) but i can compromise with certain Hindus who usually tend to pick and choose parts of hinduism that may assimilate with their lives.

Of course, no two people can ever agree on everything all the time even if they belong to the same sect/tribal clan. Again, as humans we shall compromise on those practices/ beliefs which are not harming other directly. At this moment in time, I sit here silently, compromising with the billions of people who do not agree with my beliefs. I am not saying that my relationship with God is personal, I dont think my relationship with God can ever be personal for as long as we humans live in system called a "society" where we have to contribute to qualify as being a member.

To put it simply, compromise with everything but injustice done to others- people, environment, animals.

Salaam RidaKhan,

No problem. Funnily enough, in my last reply a few moments ago I was just saying that humans will rarely agree on everything. I see what you mean, compromise and tolerance are essential and what you're saying fits my understanding of the Quran. I would disagree on the point about having a personal relationship with God, as I believe we do. I think we serve Allah, not people. We live in society, it has benefits and many problems but I don't believe it prevents our personal relationship with God. I have occasionally come across views where people look at the warnings that God gives as a way of saying anyone who ever does certain things outside of Islam is doomed right there are then. They seem to be forgetting that God is The Most Patient and the Most Merciful. But, as you say, there is a line to be drawn in that compromise when it comes to intolerance, hatred and injustice etc.

RidaKhan

Salaam Rida

Correction 2177 is about Mutaqoon.

Why would not you consider yourself Momin, when Allah is addressing you as a Momin.

Peace

I don't call myself Momin because I don't believe I have reached that stage yet. According to Parwez- who I really admire, to be a Momin, we go through 4 phases.

Phase 1 Muslim

Here you accept Islam and by that I mean that you accept that there is one God, Quran is the book of God (given that you have thoroughly studied it and explored every aspect of it), and recognize the efforts of the Prophets. (Believe me, the first stage is not as easy as it sounds as human heart needs to be convinced about these "facts".)

Phase 2 Salahiteen

Now that you are clear about the foundations of the Islamic faith. It is time that you use and expand your "salahiyat" or "abilities" to work for the cause of Islam i.e. peace and injustice. For me this phase is about completing school, university, getting enough work experience etc.

Phase 3 Mutaqqeen (as mentioned by you)

Mutaqeen defined as people who are able to defend themselves from every hurdle in their life. Like an Arab that travels through the Arabian desert, tightly holding his robe and skipping every spiky desert plant/bush/ animals e.g. poisonous snake which if not dealt with properly can lead to death or permanent harm. I can send you a document which is a glossary of Quran so you can look up these terms in more detail.

After passing the phase of Mulim and Salahiteen can we only be prepared enough to face difficulties in life, and if we succeed, we become Mutaqeen.

Phase 4 The Final phase known as the phase of Momin. The peacemakers.

Now that our Islamic foundation is strong, have abilities/ qualifications to back up our stance, and have gained enough experience in life to deal with hurdles- we are now asked to work and strive for world peace.

In this phase, because we are empowered by our abilities, strength of character and experience, we are now asked to take on a greater responsibility (and by far the hardest) as Allah or God believes that we are ready for something much bigger.

So here are the 4 phases of a Muslim's journey as described in the Quran. The 4 words, Muslim, Momin, Salahiteen and Mutaqqin are repeatedly used. And I admire Parwez and Allama Iqbal to have been able to recognize and divide this step by step approach in order for Muslims to gain more control about their practice of Islam.

Thus, I do not feel that I have reached a place like that of Momin (peacemaker) since I do not feel that my heart has reached that "satisfaction" phase of Momin where I am happy to leave the world because I think I have done some good to the humanity.

I am still struggling with the phase 2 and 3. I need salahiyat- skills/tools to back me up and I am still learning to handle the difficulties that life throws at me. I know that life is unpredictable and can continue to throw difficulties, however, if you can pass the first few difficult experiences, you are likely to be able to deal with anything because you have a good foundation, required skills, tools and enough life experience.

RidaKhan

Salaam RidaKhan,

No problem. Funnily enough, in my last reply a few moments ago I was just saying that humans will rarely agree on everything. I see what you mean, compromise and tolerance are essential and what you're saying fits my understanding of the Quran. I would disagree on the point about having a personal relationship with God, as I believe we do. I think we serve Allah, not people. We live in society, it has benefits and many problems but I don't believe it prevents our personal relationship with God. I have occasionally come across views where people look at the warnings that God gives as a way of saying anyone who ever does certain things outside of Islam is doomed right there are then. They seem to be forgetting that God is The Most Patient and the Most Merciful. But, as you say, there is a line to be drawn in that compromise when it comes to intolerance, hatred and injustice etc.

Awesome. Cool. Well said. )

RidaKhan

Peace RidaKhan,

Good stuff, please continue with your explanation of angels and satan God willing.

Message me with an email address and I will send you the required documents that speak about the root words of Mailaika and Shaytan. You might find the glossary helpful as it also defines other concepts often wrongly translated.

Man_of_Faith

Salaam RidaKhan,

I do study the Arabic Quran to some extent, not as much as I could I guess, but I know some basics.

Did I say that I was a "Quranist"?

No, I did not, I avoid the term. I said I was a Believer, but if I have to refer to myself with a religious origin, I suppose it would be Muslim, since it seems to be the only accepted term. It is not wrong either, just that that term is so misused.

I understand that is why the definition "Submitter" emerged, so suppose I may have to land on Muslim. However, I belong to no sect, simply Muslim.

The reason is the false perception that the Muslims today are the only Muslims, anyone can be a Muslim, even if not been studying Quran.

God bless you

Awaal_Muslim