:: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
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Certain information about those of the People of Book and the Polytheists idol worshippers who refused to accept and died in that state
They will be forced in the scorching heat of the Hell-Prison.
They will reside therein perpetually.
They are truly the people who exposed themselves as disturbers of equilibrium-eternal truth.Prepositional phrase with Min relates to the elided circumstantial clause. It relates to continuation of the state of non-believing till the point in time of death. The embedded circumstantial clause is evident from other Ayah where it is said that they died while they were in the state of deniers by that point in time.
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Certain information about those of the People of Book and the Polytheists idol worshippers who refused to accept and died in that state
They will be forced in the scorching heat of the Hell-Prison.
They will reside therein perpetually.
They are truly the people who exposed themselves as disturbers of equilibrium-eternal truth.Salaamun alayka,
I really do not understand you Mazhar.
I assume that you translated " " with the red highlight.
Why did you put it there while in arabic it is before "the People of Book"?
I really do not understand this temptAnd NO it does not read "those who refused to accept and died in that state from the People of Book AND those who refused to accept and died in that state from the Polytheists"
You can probably justify it with your grammar rules, but I assume you know very well that there is not a single ayaat in The Quran where some of the muskriks are set in a positive light.
Mushriks are always bad, and not only a couple of them but all of them.Prepositional phrase with Min relates to the elided circumstantial clause. It relates to continuation of the state of non-believing till the point in time of death. The embedded circumstantial clause is evident from other Ayah where it is said that they died while they were in the state of deniers by that point in time.
I have no idea what you are saying here. I am sure that if one is able to write down such exotic sentences he must also be able to write also normal sentences so that eveybody can understand them.
" " simply says that it ONLY refers to those who are kafaru from the People of Book, not all of them, just the ones who are kafaru. As simple as that.GREEN I like to know which verse.
Salaam,
Bender -
I really do not understand you Mazhar.
I assume that you translated " " with the red highlight.
Why did you put it there while in arabic it is before "the People of Book"?
I really do not understand thisYou did not colour one word, I have coloured it redthose
Certain information about those of the People of Book and the Polytheists idol worshippers who refused to accept and died in that state They will be forced in the scorching heat of the Hell-Prison.
They will reside therein perpetually.
They are truly the people who exposed themselves as disturbers of equilibrium-eternal truth.The linkage clause for the relative pronoun is one grammatical unit which is to be transferred as a unit in the target language taking care of its conventions. All of the People of Book and Mushrikeen are not mentioned but a subset of them who did the act signified by the verb which is the linkage clause of Allazeena-Those -- who.
If someone is today a Mushrik, tomorrow he can become a believer. He is not going to hell-prison subject to having met other condionalities of becoming a believer. Always remember to see the case endings of the words to determine their relationship with the preceding word. Mushrikeena is in genitive case. If they were a separate entity as another predicate of Inna then it has to be in nominative case.
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GREEN I like to know which verse.
2161; 391; 984; 9125; 4734
The certain fact about those who had deliberately denied to accept the belief;
and they died while they were determined-staunch rejecters-Non Believers
The Condemnation-contemptuous discard by Allah the Exalted and the Angels and by men is collectively destined for such Non-Believers . -
You did not colour one word, I have coloured it redthose
Salaamun alayka,
That is because of how you translated the verse, it's very difficult to connect your translation with the Arabic, but we had this discussion before.
The linkage clause for the relative pronoun is one grammatical unit which is to be transferred as a unit in the target language taking care of its conventions. All of the People of Book and Mushrikeen are not mentioned but a subset of them who did the act signified by the verb which is the linkage clause of Allazeena-Those -- who.
GREEN I am very sorry but your grammar books leads you to wrong understandings.
ONLY subset of People of Book but ALL Mushrikeen.Here is a nice example from 55
55 "... ..."
You see it was not that hard nopeLook at the next ayaat please
A- 917
All of them not a single one is spared, no subset. So this contradicts your understanding.if 986 was talking about a subset of AlMushrikeen then it should have been something like this
Inna allatheena kafaroo min ahli alkitabi waallatheena kafaroo mina almushrikeena...as per 55or at least something like this
Inna allatheena kafaroo min ahli alkitabi wamina almushrikeena...
but this would be I think a weird sentence.By the way AlMushrkeena gets MINA not MIN. This already makes it weird to understand that it's talking about a subset of almushrikeen.
If someone is today a Mushrik, tomorrow he can become a believer. He is not going to hell-prison subject to having met other condionalities of becoming a believer.
We now that.
But the ayaat is not talking about the believers of tomorrow but about the kafaru from the people of the book and the mushreeks of today.Always remember to see the case endings of the words to determine their relationship with the preceding word. Mushrikeena is in genitive case. If they were a separate entity as another predicate of Inna then it has to be in nominative case.
what you fail to understand is that "allatheena kafaroo min ahli alkitabi" is 1 entity in itself. And "almushrikeena" is 1 entity.
you take "ahli alkitabi" as 1 entity and that is not correct.Salaam,
Bender -
2161; 391; 984; 9125; 4734
The certain fact about those who had deliberately denied to accept the belief;
and they died while they were determined-staunch rejecters-Non Believers
The Condemnation-contemptuous discard by Allah the Exalted and the Angels and by men is collectively destined for such Non-Believers .Salaamun alayka,
Thank you I see now what you mean with "and died in that state".
But I see also that Allah is capable to say something like "and died in that state" in 2161.
So I wonder why you translated 986 with an "and died in that state" while it's not there.
We can already learn from 2161 that He is capable of doing it, but He did not do it in 986.Salaam,
Bender -
Salaamun alayka,
Thank you I see now what you mean with "and died in that state".
But I see also that Allah is capable to say something like "and died in that state" in 2161.
So I wonder why you translated 986 with an "and died in that state" while it's not there.
We can already learn from 2161 that He is capable of doing it, but He did not do it in 986.Salaam,
BenderSalamun alaikum,
Writing --- the original text is according to conventions and the style of author.
Translation is the transference of the information embedded in the original text in the target language which has its own conventions. Its conventions are also to be taken care of.
This is a compound of Prepositional Phrase and Possessive Phrase. This is about the EMBEDDED/ELIDED predicate of the Verb Like Particle "Inna". A prepositional phrase is neither a subject of sentence nor predicate. It is relating to either.
"in the fire of Hell" is obviously relevant only after death. Though the elided predicate is visible to everyone who knows grammar and mode of writing of Arabic, but I insist in translation that it should only be from Qur'aan as I quoted you the Ayahs.
Reading does not mean picking the meanings of individual words. It needs comprehension. And for comprehending a non native text, one MUST know the grammar and modes of writing in that language.
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Peace
4150 VERILY, those who deny God and His apostles by endeavouring to make a distinction between God and His apostles, and who say, "We believe in the one but we deny the other,"* and want to pursue a path in-between - (4151) it is they, they who are truly denying the truth and for those who deny the truth We have readied shameful suffering.
- Or "We believe in some and we deny the others"- that is, they believe in God but not in
His apostles (Zamakhshari) or, alternatively, they believe in some of the apostles and
deny others (Tabari and Zamakhshari). To my mind, the first of these two interpretations
is preferable inasmuch as it covers not only a rejection of some of the apostles but also
a total rejection of the idea that God may have revealed His will through His chosen
message-bearers. In Islam, the rejection of any or all of God's apostles constitutes almost
as grave a sin as a denial of God Himself.(Mohamed Assad)
- Or "We believe in some and we deny the others"- that is, they believe in God but not in
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Salamun alaikum,
Salaamun alayka,
I am singular.
This is a compound of Prepositional Phrase and Possessive Phrase. This is about the EMBEDDED/ELIDED predicate of the Verb Like Particle "Inna". A prepositional phrase is neither a subject of sentence nor predicate. It is relating to either.
"in the fire of Hell" is obviously relevant only after death. Though the elided predicate is visible to everyone who knows grammar and mode of writing of Arabic, but I insist in translation that it should only be from Qur'aan as I quoted you the Ayahs.
Reading does not mean picking the meanings of individual words. It needs comprehension. And for comprehending a non native text, one MUST know the grammar and modes of writing in that language.
Can you please show me what elided predicate is visible to everyone who knows grammar and mode of writing of Arabic in
1032Salaam,
Bender -
Salaamun alayka,
I am singular.
Can you please show me what elided predicate is visible to everyone who knows grammar and mode of writing of Arabic in
1032Salaam,
BenderSalamun alaika,
In categorization of sentences it the the simple sentence. It is news given under oath. Subject noun of Verb Like Particle is man as species.
It needs a predicate. is not predicate since it is a prepositional phrase with prefixed emphatic particle to lay another emphasis on the news given.
The elided predicate is visible to rational beings if they know what is signified by a verbal noun which states only action and state without reference to time. The oath is also about the timeline.
You determine the meanings and signification of and the elided predicate will emerge before your eyes. Please try.
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Salamun alaika,
Salaamun alayka,
I can not find such usage in The Quran.
Can I say also to a singular person Barakatun Aleikum hmmIn categorization of sentences it the the simple sentence. It is news given under oath. Subject noun of Verb Like Particle is man as species.
It needs a predicate. is not predicate since it is a prepositional phrase with prefixed emphatic particle to lay another emphasis on the news given.
The elided predicate is visible to rational beings if they know what is signified by a verbal noun which states only action and state without reference to time. The oath is also about the timeline.
You determine the meanings and signification of and the elided predicate will emerge before your eyes. Please try.
What I see is that the structure of 1032 is the same as 986
A- 1032
A- 982I was wondering why there is no "and died in that state" in your translation of 1032
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaamun alayka,
What I see is that the structure of 1032 is the same as 986
A- 1032
A- 982I was wondering why there is no "and died in that state" in your translation of 1032
Salaam,
BenderThe similarity is that both prepositional phrase are about the elided predicate of Inna. "Loss" is determined at the extreme end of time. Going within the Hell-Prison is also to be determined by the end state of a person.
Swearing is by the Span of Time;
That the fact is the Man as a species is certainly heading towards loss-worse state at the concluding point in time than the state-position at the point in time of beginning.
Except those who willingly and affectionately accepted-believed and performed moderate righteous deeds;
And they consciously kept themselves embedded-tied with the Infallible Fact-Grand Qur'aan;
And they convincingly kept themselves remain coolly perseverant and steadfast. -
The similarity is that both prepositional phrase are about the elided predicate of Inna. "Loss" is determined at the extreme end of time. Going within the Hell-Prison is also to be determined by the end state of a person.
Swearing is by the Span of Time;
That the fact is the Man as a species is certainly heading towards loss-worse state at the concluding point in time than the state-position at the point in time of beginning.
Except those who willingly and affectionately accepted-believed and performed moderate righteous deeds;
And they consciously kept themselves embedded-tied with the Infallible Fact-Grand Qur'aan;
And they convincingly kept themselves remain coolly perseverant and steadfast.Salaamun alayka,
So now man is not in loss?
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaamun alayka,
So now man is not in loss?
Salaam,
Bender"Loss" is relative to Start and End. If someone is progressing towards Hell Prison he is even at this point in time in loss. If he reverts, he starts moving towards profit-gain. The purpose of the Book is to incline people to revert from loss direction.
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"Loss" is relative to Start and End. If someone is progressing towards Hell Prison he is even at this point in time in loss. If he reverts, he starts moving towards profit-gain. The purpose of the Book is to incline people to revert from loss direction.
Salaamun alayka,
I am not sure, but it looks to me that you have changed your direction several times during this conversation. That is ofcourse not a bad thing but at the moment I am not even sure what we are discussing.
Anway, do you still believe that "and died in that state" belongs in your translation of 986? If you still believe so, then be sure to implement it also in 1032 and all other ayaats with similar stucture like 986.
Even better is ofcourse to delete it from your translation of 986 as you know very well that if Allah wanted to say that, then for sure He does not need your help on it.Salaam,
Benderps. sorry MmKhan for offtopic
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Salaamun alayka,
I am not sure, but it looks to me that you have changed your direction several times during this conversation. That is ofcourse not a bad thing but at the moment I am not even sure what we are discussing.
Anway, do you still believe that "and died in that state" belongs in your translation of 986? If you still believe so, then be sure to implement it also in 1032 and all other ayaats with similar stucture like 986.
Even better is ofcourse to delete it from your translation of 986 as you know very well that if Allah wanted to say that, then for sure He does not need your help on it.Salaam,
Benderps. sorry MmKhan for fftopic
Salamun alaika,
No change of direction; the problem in comprehending the otherwise simple things is only because you are not taking care how the prepositional phrases in sentences are linked to the semantics of the sentence. The preposition and its object noun determine the elided predicate. When the object noun changes the predicate is not the same at both places.
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Salamun alaika,
No change of direction; the problem in comprehending the otherwise simple things is only because you are not taking care how the prepositional phrases in sentences are linked to the semantics of the sentence. The preposition and its object noun determine the elided predicate. When the object noun changes the predicate is not the same at both places.
Salaamun alayka,
It might be that I'm a litle bit slow in understanding things, so maybe you can help me a bit to understand better.
Can you please translate for me the next sentence please, it's not Quran.
Inna allatheena kafaroo min ahli alkitabi waalmushrikeena fee cold of Alaska khalideena feeha.Salaam and thx!
Bender -
Salaamun alayka,
It might be that I'm a litle bit slow in understanding things, so maybe you can help me a bit to understand better.
Can you please translate for me the next sentence please, it's not Quran.
Inna allatheena kafaroo min ahli alkitabi waalmushrikeena fee cold of Alaska khalideena feeha.Salaam and thx!
BenderSalaman,
Once we are able to write few sentences and read some sentences; we never look back to recap as to what is writing and what is reading. It is always good to go through basic lessons as to how a text is written, rules and conventions of writing and rules and conventions for how to read a text in any language.
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Salaman,
Once we are able to write few sentences and read some sentences; we never look back to recap as to what is writing and what is reading. It is always good to go through basic lessons as to how a text is written, rules and conventions of writing and rules and conventions for how to read a text in any language.
Salaamun alayka,
Is this your translation of what I asked hmm
salaam,
Bender