Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. Community Needs
  3. Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan.
  4. :: Ramadhan Fasting or .....? ::

:: Ramadhan Fasting or .....? ::

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan.
167 Posts 24 Posters 11.4k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • F Offline
    F Offline
    farida
    wrote on last edited by
    #114

    No, I am not irritated with your posts. what makes you think that I am miserable. i am anything but miserable. believe me, i read your posts properly. you have not said stuff that i haven't heard before. when you start posting your views and claims, be able to back it up with. if you can't then don't turn defensive and start attacking the person. when you can't refer me to the verses in the koran, don't cry foul. and if someone did not get your point, why don't you then make yourself clear.

    when i encounter ignorant statements being made, i am not going to walk away and let such ignorance be spread.

    Here I past for you my post and show you the evidence that you do not read my post properly as I gave links/source/backed it up
    The Christian site
    Awesome Benefits Of Fasting
    The devil does not want you or I fasting unto God - period - ever! Anyone thinking about fasting unto God is a serious potential threat to Satan?s dominion on this planet.
    One person willing to add fasting to their prayers and trust have the potential to do untold harm to Satan?s operations on this planet, because these three weapons the Holy Spirit has given the Body of Christ can release the power of God upon this earth and into situations like nothing else can that God has given to the Body of Christ. (Of course, the impartation of the Holy Spirit and proper usage of the Word of God and God's specific will in each matter is also included in this).
    Once the devil observes a person interested in being the most effective vessel for God they can be in hindering Satan?s influence over the affairs of mankind and showing great interest in combining fasting with prayer and trust, he has certain strategies he will try to implement to hinder that?s person?s progress in moving forward.
    Here is one of his most common tactics he employs to keep one from moving forward in being more skilled to use the weapon of fasting A sense of being nearly overwhelmed.
    ?I can?t fast; God is asking too much of me. Demands on my life right now don?t allow me to fast. Health issues won?t allow it; my doctor doesn?t want me to either.? The list can go on and on ?
    http//www.precious-testimonies.com/Exhortations/f-j/TheAwesomeBenefitsOfFasting3.htm

    When prayer and trust does not seem to be getting the job done ... consider including the weapon of fasting."
    Outside of obedience to God's Word, fasting is the greatest spiritual discipline (weapon) for seeking God's intervention. Combined with prayer they together make up the most critical weapons of spiritual warfare and deliverance in our lives. While we cannot manipulate God to fulfill our desires exactly as laid out to Him, fasting moves God to fulfill His intended will over the matters in our lives.
    God's will is that we are not controlled by anything but His Spirit, and fasting (combined with prayer) helps us be much more sensitive and responsive to the Holy Spirit (as well as being more obedient to God's Word). It also moves the Holy Spirit to be more inclined to be responsive to US.
    http//www.precious-testimonies.com/Exhortations/a-e/AwesomeBenefitsOfFastingPart1.htm
    This is the last time I am pasting it for you dont expect others me to do your work.

    I did not walk away from exposing your nonsense, go and read my replies to your each posts here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604179.msg303536#new
    Also search and read my previous post properly you will find ayat I quoted under my post here; http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604176.0

    years ago, i spread such ignorance about fasting. so many people are turned off and away from islam because of such ignorance. if i were to make ignorant statements, i sure wouldn't want someone to walk away but instead correct me.

    And you are continuing to do that this year
    Read my post here to learn more; http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604104.msg303734#msg303734
    Remember again that I am not the sort who walks away from discussion, if you want a proof of that than read all my posts and on the subject of Ramdan read Hot/"ramadan" thread but don't expect me to do your homework and search my links and backup for you its all there for you so .......You read my post properly or show me where I mentioned an ayat and did not back it up with reference.

    When I encounter the ignorant I just say peace and walk on

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • D Offline
      D Offline
      dawngorgeous
      wrote on last edited by
      #115

      Koran 237

      O people! Never forget kindness among yourselves.

      Dawn

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • F Offline
        F Offline
        farida
        wrote on last edited by
        #116

        Koran 237

        O people! Never forget kindness among yourselves.

        Dawn

        Of course
        7;199. Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; But turn away from the ignorant.

        25;63. And the servants of ((Allah)) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!";

        1. Say "Is it some one other than Allah that ye order me to worship, O ye ignorant ones?"

        An ignorant one is desprately trying to prove that Quran is wrong when it says in 2;183 But fasting is the best for you she also ignores those who can fast, but with great difficulty, may substitute feeding one poor person for each day of breaking the fast. what she calls her evidence is actully a limited observation see http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604176.msg303767#msg303767

        As you would notice that she takes example of farmers assigned to do heat work to assert that islamic fasting is harmfull although the study itself takes into account plight of farmers and recommends differnt work pattern for them during Ramadan and they admit that they have done limited study on Ramadan; we have strongly urged employers to refrain from assigning Islamic workers to heat work or heavy daytime work during Ramadan; we have therefore limited systematic studies of health problems during Ramadan to persons performing only moderate work..
        In light of the observed potentially harmful pathophysiological effects, the danger of dehydration of Islamic workers due to heat work during Ramadan should be taken very seriously.

        Peace

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • N Offline
          N Offline
          NOMAD
          wrote on last edited by
          #117

          Salaam to all

          sorry to come with some ideas about abstinence translation..and to add some evidencies about the mutual ulemah concensus about SAlla

          In case you see Salaat as prayer ritual forget, please lets use our brain a little with sense
          Sahih International
          Alif, Lam, Meem.
          22
          This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -
          23
          Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,
          24
          And who believe in what has been revealed to you, , and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain .
          25
          Those are upon guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful.

          HOW CAN PRAYER AND TO GIVE MONEY be the 2 mostimportant things ?? will this save mankind from ignorance and darkness? from idolatry? wish is the most evil act..? or to establish the Laws of Allah? is to give money or to Purify and constant application of that Laws of our Creator?
          fasting also became a ritual like salat and many other detail in Quran to fullfill the wishes of those hadith collectors and theire descendence who changed and translated distorted the Kitab of Allah to theire own supercticious and cultural persian and hindu backgound.. none of those ritual are benefical for self or mankind. To aquimus Salat and To Zakat is to implement/constant follow Creator Laws with discipline and obidience. and Syumm cant mean to be out of food since AlQuran is complete and detailed, and the 2 exemples (Maryam and Zakharya) are given were that they both eat/drink in that trainment and had to be out of their comunities for a specidfic inner self upgrade thats what Syumm is and not to abstain from food water.but to eat less is for sure a way to deacrese youre cerebral frequencies and make you enter in state of meditation easly, but that you can obtain by other means. All Creatures on earth knowing or unkowning have 2 middle states of meditation /reflexion in a day one in Morning and other in afternoon..almost a sleepness state, and of course during the night is also a time where this can be full profitble.. Thats the perfect moments to Reprogram youre Ego with what you want to make .its tthe discipline of consciousness and purification of intention that will lead Level upon level (constent upgrade)until you ultimate/upgrade yourself. middle path is the way always.

          NOW...
          Excerpt from the Journal of Ahl-e-Hadith
          Before I proceed further, I deem it of utmost importance to
          refer to an article that was published in the Journal of Ahl-e-
          Hadith, the issue of 19-25 November, 1997, under the title
          ?Aqamat-e-Salaat?. Please have a look.
          ?As-Salaat is a fundamental aspect of Islamic discipline and
          the kind of social order the Quran is desirous of establishing,
          it wishes to define that by the comprehensive term of
          Aqamat as-Salaat.
          The meanings of Salaat, according to its Root (   ) , are
          to follow someone?s
          Footsteps and move on. Therefore, in the light of authentic
          Arabic lexicons, the interpreters have determined the
          meaning of Quranic term ?Aqamat as-Salaat? as ?following
          the divine laws steadfastly?. In other words, to abide by the
          commands and laws revealed through divine guidance
          (Wahi) and to continue acting upon the program prescribed
          by Him, is called ?Aqamat as-Salaat?. According to Quran,
          its enforcement or promulgation can only take effect under a
          social system ? a system where individuals continue rising
          up to the determined goals and ideals through honest pursuit
          of Quran?s guidelines, without regard to their personal gains
          or interests. Thus, Aqamat as-Salaat has been declared a
          common goal and obligation and it is made clear that the
          establishment of Salaat would not be possible without
          Believers? acquisition of ?Tamakkan fil Ardh?, meaning,
          without their coming into power as a free state, as
          elaborated in the Chapter ?Al-Hajj? (...)

          SALAAM PEACE PAZ

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • G Offline
            G Offline
            GODsubmitter
            wrote on last edited by
            #118

            Thank you bro @Nomad for this nice post!

            Glad to see you back! group

            peace

            sun

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • M Offline
              M Offline
              mmkhan
              wrote on last edited by
              #119

              Salaam to all

              sorry to come with some ideas about abstinence translation..and to add some evidencies about the mutual ulemah concensus about SAlla

              Salaam NoMad,

              Please be specific to the thread's topic. Thanks!

              mmKhan

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • M Offline
                M Offline
                mmkhan
                wrote on last edited by
                #120

                Salaam all,

                Kaaf Laam Waw = Use
                Sheen Ra Ba = Consume

                Ta 3an Meem = Eat/Feed
                Seen Qaaf Ya = Water/Drink


                Kaaf Laam Waw
                Use - not necessarily refer to food only and it refers to something which is not ready to use at it is

                For example

                2188 - - Kuloo is used with cash.
                3130 - - Kuloo is used with riba/usury.
                3183 - - Kuloo is used with fire.

                6141
                6141 And He it is who causes gardens to grow, trellised and untrellised, and palm trees and crops of different food and olives and pomegranates, similar and dissimilar. Eat of its fruit when it yields and give its due on the day of its harvest. And be not excessive. Indeed, He does not like those who commit excess.

                In Arabic the word used in the above aayat is . This is because, it talks about the fruits which is not ready to eat directly. It may need washing, peeling off skin, taking out seeds, etc..

                2236
                2236 And the camels and cattle We have appointed for you as among the symbols of Allah ; for you therein is good. So mention the name of Allah upon them when lined up; and when they fell down on their sides, then eat from them and feed the needy and the beggar. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may be grateful.

                In this aayat, both words and are used. Please note the part of this aayat which says "and when they are on their sides then from them". The word kuloo is used because the food is not yet ready to eat, when they just fell down on their sides after slaughtering. Now they are ready for "use" . Then comes the other part "and feed the needy and the beggar". Ta3am is used for feeding the needy and the beggars, that is the food which is ready to eat .

                Sheen Ra Ba
                Consume - not necessarily refer to drink and it refers to something which is not ready

                For example

                293 - - Ishriboo is used with the calf.

                Ta 3an Meem
                Eat/Feed - something which is ready to eat

                For example

                3353
                3353 O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not for you to harm the Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that would be in the sight of Allah an enormity.

                Here the word clarifies its meaning without leaving any doubt with you compare it with blue part. Ta3am is something which is ready to eat and you may not be awaiting for its readiness.

                Seen Qaaf Ya
                Water/Drink - Something which is ready to drink

                For example

                2679
                2679 And it is He who feeds me and gives me drink.

                Here again the word ta3am also used and refers to drink, which is ready to use.


                Now the question is what means in 2187?

                together is always used with the context. Lets take a look at 2187.

                2187
                2187 It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread. Then complete the fast until the sunset. And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques. These are the limits Allah , so do not approach them. Thus does Allah make clear His ordinances to the people that they may become righteous.

                Please note the points below to look at its context.

                • It has been made permissible/lawful for us to go to our wives at the nights preceding fasting .
                • They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them .
                • Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He turned onto you and forgave you .
                • Now, have relations with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you .
                • And kuloo and ishriboo until white thread and black thread can be distinct from dawn .
                • Then complete your fast until night .
                • Do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques .
                • These are the limits of Allah, so do not approach them .
                • Like that Allah clarifies and explain His aayaat for people so that they may become righteous.

                Hope this may be of help inshaAllah.

                May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                mmKhan

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • D Offline
                  D Offline
                  dawngorgeous
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #121

                  Then the fasting mentioned in 2, 187 must be sex.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    mmkhan
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #122

                    Salaam Dawn,

                    Yes 2187 is about sex, but how about 2183-2185?
                    And what exactly Saum means is explained in 1926.

                    May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                    mmKhan

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • D Offline
                      D Offline
                      dawngorgeous
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #123

                      Peace mm,

                      I meant that the whole of the verse 187 must be about sex. The words translated as -eat and -drink must be figurative and must be referring to sex. Consume it and enjoy it until daybreak...then..?

                      Dawn.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        mmkhan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #124

                        Peace mm,

                        I meant that the whole of the verse 187 must be about sex. The words translated as -eat and -drink must be figurative and must be referring to sex. Consume it and enjoy it until daybreak...then..?

                        Dawn.

                        Peace Dawn,

                        Then..?

                        Thumma Atimmu alSiyaama ila alLayli...2187
                        alSiyaama is plural of Saum and what is Saum? It is defined in 1926.

                        If kulu wa-shraboo means eat-n-drink, then 1926 also talk about it while doing saum, hence it contradict with 2187.

                        May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                        mmKhan

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          mmkhan
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #125

                          Salaam,

                          This is an update to the opening post, inshaAllah.

                          There are three major questions asked by many people.

                          • Why shahr means full-moon and why not a month?
                          • How many days we have to fast?
                          • What means saum or siyaam ?

                          InshaAllah, I will try to answer all these questions from alQuraan by the permission of my Lord, Allah.

                          Question
                          Why shahr means full-moon and why not a month?

                          2185
                          2185 The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful .

                          The highlighted part says "So whoever witnesses alShahr, so let him fast it". Here, if you take shahr as a month, please tell me how can you witness the month? You can witness a calendar, but not the month. Right?
                          If you think you can witness the month, I should ask, which calendar month? Gregorian's, Arabic's, Urdu's, Hindu's or Fiscal calendar? That is not mentioned in the aayat above.

                          Besides this, if you think that you can witness the month, then you have to fast a single day as per the above highlighted part. Which says, So whoever witnesses the month, so let him FAST IT. Yasum is the word used above is referring to a single saum, so no need to fast for a complete month, just one saum of the month will do.

                          Question
                          How many days we have to fast?

                          2185
                          2185 The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful .

                          When you understand that alShahr does not mean a month but a full-moon, the same highlighted part above shows us the number of days to fast.

                          When you witness a full-moon, you have to fast it. Then again if you witness a full-moon next day, you have to fast it. This is how it goes. There might be 3 full-moons, or 5 full-moons, or 7 full-moons . But I have witnessed 3 full-moons last year and this year 5.

                          This is the reason I think "ayyaman ma3doodatin" is used, that means "a limited number of days" and a fixed number of days are not given clearly.

                          Question
                          What means saum or siyaam ?

                          Without going into confusions, it is simple to see the definition of word saum in 1926.
                          If you take "kuloo wa ishraboo" means "eat and drink", then you can see a contradiction between 2187 and 1926 as the definition of saum in 1926 starts with eat and drink.

                          1926
                          1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to man.' "

                          Hope this may help inshaAllah. This is just my personal understanding, please check all the quoted aayaat carefully before accepting it.

                          May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                          mmKhan

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • S Offline
                            S Offline
                            supportpeacenotwar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #126

                            Peace mmkhan,

                            Thank you for this helpful update! The bit about witnessing the month... the way its put, it made me consider why would it say witness a month when anyone who is here on Earth will know of the month in any case? The witness part sounds much more like it's witnessing something else in particular as you mentioned. Those are just some thoughts.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • J Offline
                              J Offline
                              justamuslim
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #127

                              Mmkhan,

                              I have been reading your posts intently and digesting them. In verse 2183, the word used is ALsiyam which implies a specific type. Not just any Siyam. But ALsiyam. In verse 1926, Siyam is used.

                              Any thoughts on that? Mind sharing.

                              Looking forward to your posts. Thanks.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                mmkhan
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #128

                                Peace mmkhan,

                                Thank you for this helpful update! The bit about witnessing the month... the way its put, it made me consider why would it say witness a month when anyone who is here on Earth will know of the month in any case? The witness part sounds much more like it's witnessing something else in particular as you mentioned. Those are just some thoughts.

                                Pease sPnW,

                                Thank you for your input, I agree handshake

                                May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                                mmKhan

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  justamuslim
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #129

                                  Peace mmkhan,

                                  Thank you for this helpful update! The bit about witnessing the month... the way its put, it made me consider why would it say witness a month when anyone who is here on Earth will know of the month in any case? The witness part sounds much more like it's witnessing something else in particular as you mentioned. Those are just some thoughts.

                                  Me too! Shahid from what I understand means a witness. I have never heard of or asked anyone 'have you witnessed month' or moon for that matter. You see a moon not witness a moon. Is it an Arabic expression to say "witness a moon or month"?

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    mmkhan
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #130

                                    Mmkhan,

                                    I have been reading your posts intently and digesting them. In verse 2183, the word used is ALsiyam which implies a specific type. Not just any Siyam. But ALsiyam. In verse 1926, Siyam is used.

                                    Any thoughts on that? Mind sharing.

                                    Looking forward to your posts. Thanks.

                                    Peace justamuslim,

                                    Thanks.
                                    As per my understanding the usage of AL is given in this thread. Please follow, it may be helpful, inshaAllah. The word sauman used in 1926 simply means "a fast".

                                    You are welcome.
                                    May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                                    mmKhan

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      mmkhan
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #131

                                      Me too! Shahid from what I understand means a witness. I have never heard of or asked anyone 'have you witnessed month' or moon for that matter. You see a moon not witness a moon. Is it an Arabic expression to say "witness a moon or month"?

                                      Peace,

                                      Is 2133 helpful for you, inshaAllah?

                                      May Allah bless you pr
                                      mmKhan

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • S Offline
                                        S Offline
                                        supportpeacenotwar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #132

                                        Me too! Shahid from what I understand means a witness. I have never heard of or asked anyone 'have you witnessed month' or moon for that matter. You see a moon not witness a moon. Is it an Arabic expression to say "witness a moon or month"?

                                        Peace justamuslim,

                                        Hmm, I've really got to look into this further. For the moon, witnessing it may mean the sighting of the full moon for example. So we see it for that day and moment in time and it's that moment in time that's related to the fast. As the full moon won't always be the same each month or year as well, it would need to witnessed each time. That's one way to look at it. In terms of witnessing the month - that's something everyone here on Planet Earth will know full stop. The timing of it isn't so much an issue as something like a full moon etc, we know when it is... I hope I'm explaining that clearly. As to whether these are Arabic expressions, I'm not sure but lets say you need to witness something to trigger the timing of an event - a full moon or something like that seems to fit more, right now the way I view it, than an actual month. These are more my preliminary thoughts as well as further reflection. Of course, Allah knows best.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • H Offline
                                          H Offline
                                          hawk99
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #133

                                          Peace justamuslim,

                                          Hmm, I've really got to look into this further. For the moon, witnessing it may mean the sighting of the full moon for example. So we see it for that day and moment in time and it's that moment in time that's related to the fast. As the full moon won't always be the same each month or year as well, it would need to witnessed each time. That's one way to look at it. In terms of witnessing the month - that's something everyone here on Planet Earth will know full stop. The timing of it isn't so much an issue as something like a full moon etc, we know when it is... I hope I'm explaining that clearly. As to whether these are Arabic expressions, I'm not sure but lets say you need to witness something to trigger the timing of an event - a full moon or something like that seems to fit more, right now the way I view it, than an actual month. These are more my preliminary thoughts as well as further reflection. Of course, Allah knows best.

                                          Peace supportpeacenotwar,

                                          wit?ness/wtns/ Show Spelled Show IPA
                                          verb (used with object)

                                          1. to see, hear, or know by personal presence and perception to witness an accident.
                                          2. to be present at (an occurrence) as a formal witness, spectator, bystander, etc. She witnessed our wedding.
                                          3. to bear witness to; testify to; give or afford evidence of.
                                          4. to attest by one's signature He witnessed her will.
                                            verb (used without object)
                                          5. to bear witness; testify; give or afford evidence.

                                          Have a blessed ramadan

                                          peace

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users