Circumcision: The Way of Prophet Abraham
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Here are a few questions I have for Hadith rejectors who say that since circumcision is not mentioned in the Quran, it is not necessary
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Going by this line of reasoning, removal of pubic hair, armpit hair, and trimming of fingernails and toenails when they become long or dirty are not mentioned in the Holy Quran either. Therefore, according to Hadith rejectors, will such people who do not remove pubic hair, armpit hair, nails, etc., be considered as sinful or not? Western and non-Muslim people do not remove pubic hair/armpit hair, do Hadith rejectors follow their culture also since it is not forbidden in Quran?
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Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, stool, maniyy, madhiyy (seminal fluid), vomit, is impure. According to Hadith-rejectors will a person be sinful if he does not wash off these things from his body or clothes?
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According to Hadith-rejectors, will a person be sinful for (God forbid) drinking these things which are not explicitly declared impure in the Quran, as this is the culture of many Westerners/non-Muslims?
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According to the Quran, the meat of swine is forbidden, but nowhere in the Quran does it say that the perspiration or saliva of swine, or any other animal for that matter, is impure. If these things get onto the clothes or body of a Hadith-rejector, will he be sinful for not washing them off, or praying while traces of a pig's saliva or perspiration is on his body and/or clothes?
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Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, dung, or seminal fluid of any animal is impure. Are these things halal for Hadith-rejectors, and will a Hadith rejector be sinful for touching, drinking, or not removing these traces from his body and clothes?
If you reject circumcision and say it is not mentioned in the Quran, then how will you answer the above five questions?
rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
Then how will you answer this question?
- In the book of gossips there's a suggestion to eat flies, will you do it?
- In the book of gossips there's a suggestion to drink Camel's urine, will you do it?
- Nowhere in the Quran or book of gossips any mention of forbidding eating the flesh of non-muslim / your vanquished enemy / the kuffars, thus it's not forbidden and 'cannibalism' is endorsed?
And the list can goes on and on and on..
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According to the evidence. And the Quran says to verify news that is brought to you. This is the whole basis of the Hadith science known as Ilm ul Rijaal and Jarh wat Tadeel, about verifying the credibility of the narrators. The Hadith science is in fact the pride of Islam since no other religion can verify the credibility of the writers and narrators of their scriptures.
But Alhamdulillah we can read the biography and history of each and every narrator of authentic Hadith and see if he is a truthful person. Therefore we are follow Hadith based on evidence and not blind following. Unlike you who follow the Quran but have no proof that Quran is the word of God.
Do you know when the hadiths being written?
Example
According to your dad, your deceased great grandpa saith "My wife is a bitch!"How can you verify the credibility of rumors / gossips when the source of the rumor / gossip has been dead?
Unless Ouija board or other means of 'talking to the dead' is considered as 'valid techniques'.. rotfl
'A'isha reported The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said Ten are the acts according to fitra clipping the moustache, letting the beard grow, using the tooth-stick, snuffing water in the nose, cutting the nails, washing the finger joints, plucking the hair under the armpits, shaving the pubes and cleaning one's private parts with water. The narrator said I have forgotten the tenth, but it may have been rinsing the mouth. (Sahih Muslim)
No toothpaste here... brushing your teeth using a toothpaste is HARAM and sinful act! rotfl
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rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
Then how will you answer this question?
- In the book of gossips there's a suggestion to eat flies, will you do it?
- In the book of gossips there's a suggestion to drink Camel's urine, will you do it?
What sit he book of gossips?
By the way no Hadith mentions to eat flies or drink camel urine. The Hadith about camel urine is taken out of context. Ive already explained that elsewhere. In fact Hadith makes it clear to stay away from all urine which is impure.
- Nowhere in the Quran or book of gossips any mention of forbidding eating the flesh of non-muslim / your vanquished enemy / the kuffars, thus it's not forbidden and 'cannibalism' is endorsed?
Yes nowhere in the Quran. This why you need Hadith )
Hadith explicitly forbid cannibalism. One Hadith says its forbidden to eat any creature that has canines (humans have canines) and another Hadith states it forbidden to even break the bones of a dead person - so how to eat it?But nowhere in Quran is cannibalism forbidden. This why you need Hadith.
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Do you know when the hadiths being written?
Example
According to your dad, your deceased great grandpa saith "My wife is a bitch!"What your mother was my great grandpa's wife?
How can you verify the credibility of rumors / gossips when the source of the rumor / gossip has been dead?
Rumors and gossip is not the same as verified transmissions which are corroborated. Otherwise all witness testimony should be dismissed from courts of law as mere rumors and gossip.
No toothpaste here... brushing your teeth using a toothpaste is HARAM and sinful act! rotfl
Where in the Quran it says to use toothpaste or even clean your teeth? Answer Nowhere
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So if you follow Quran only, you never have to
a. be circumcised
b. remove your pubic hair
c. wash yourself after answering call of nature
d. wash dishes which were used by dogs and other animals
e. clean your teeth
f. wash hands before eating
g. donkey is not haram to eat (Quran only people should eat donkey kebabs)
h. insects and vermin are not haram
i. crow is not haram according to Quran only (Quran only people eat kava biryani)
j. Quran only people allowed to drink urine, eat feces, swallow sperm
k. Quran only people allowed to do anal sex
So the Quran-only people are the biggest joke of humanity
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Peace Sonny,
I have no clue why they do it, and I do not care why they did it either. There are many disadvantages of circumcision. I mentioned a few in earlier posts. I know myself since I am.
Peace Israfeel,
The Torah is the Law brought by Moses and much of the literature found in the bundle you call Torah is added hadith. The discussion here is not the nature of he Torah, though I have much to say about it and I have said many things in past threads.
Excuse me, but you come with irrelevant input. The Quran tells you to be clean and pure and an average person would know ways to keep clean. Need no book for that.
You would be able to determine if you are clean or not on your own.
The ideas you have extracted from your hadith are ideas of some person, not God. Most ideas are hardly from a prophet's ways but inventions of people who wanted to seem important.
Do you deem how many stones a man should use to wipe his ass relevant to your salvation?
And many other completely irrelevant input and semi-relevant input an average blessed person could work out on his own.
Relying on hadith just shows you cannot trust your own brain and thus not trust God. Quran warns you that if you follow the majority of all people they will drive you astray. And most people who believe do not do so without committing idol worship.
If you know what is a majority then you should only follow God's own hadith, the Quran. It is the safest bet. What other hadith do you believe in?
Now I did not intend to write such a long response to things I consider blasphemies, but I suppose God's inspiration pushes me. If you do not choose to change your ways I will let you have your system and I will stick to mine. I will try to treat you with respect and dignity despite our incompatible nature.
You say I do not follow the ways of Ibrahim. Well, have your opinion, it belongs with you, but I follow the example of him and every other prophet and blessed man ever lived. I follow the peaceful and truthful nature of their worship of the one God. If you read Quran you will understand why God deemed Ibrahim to be a good example, and it was not mainly due to his cleanliness. If you read the Quran with a clear mind you will see that it was due to His devoted and sincere worship of God without associating any partners with Him. And he was a very kind and islamic (peaceful) person.
I do not follow rules and restrictions which would only draw my attention away from the One who sent me. I follow God's sunnah and I am mindful of Him every moment of my life. I trust His guidance and that He will have me do the most righteous choice. He has given me Knowledge and Wisdom without that I have taken any spectacular look at hadith ever in my life.
Will you choose to obey the ideas of men it is up to you, but I will not.
What was revealed to Moses were the Ten Commandments or the mosaic law on stone tablets. That was the Message or kitab you are looking for. I did not intend to say this, but I did anyways. There is just hadith/hearsay or man-made recordings which are scrolls which were assembled into the Torah or Bible we have today.
Jesus followed the Mosaic law, but showed that common sense should also be used when interpreting it. Jesus never wrote a book, it was his disciples that recorded his life.
The only physical book that ever came down was Quran, the only exact wordings of God, except those inscriptions on stone tablets to Moses which seem to be long gone.
What do I choose to follow? Well, I follow the Mosaic law (Ten Commandments), the Gospel (Jesus was always special) and Quran. The rest are unreliable stories which can be used to find inspiration at best.
The spirit of Ibrahim lives on in Quran, the Old Testament is too unreliable for any sustained knowledge-seeking. Same goes for Muhammad in my world. They all live on in my Quran.
If there is something I would be curious about I open the Bible and read a little, but then I have to use my brain and it is not always true since many men added their words. There has been research conducted on the Bible which shows its corruption and biased changes done to it. You have to "read between the lines" to find the true Message. The Quran can pretty much be read without suspicion or fear of being deceived except from traditional misinterpretations.
Hadith is synonymous in English as hearsay which is recorded on paper. If you only knew the corrupting nature of men you would immediately understand lots of the literature out there contains immense masses of false portrayals of the famous faces ever lived. No other source can be trusted 100% except the Quran. Still it comes down to the interpretation of the 1400 year old scripture and we can barely even trust that without seeking enlightenment from God.
Why then believe in man-made conjecture about the same age minus 200-400 years? Some Truth may exist in it, but how can you prove it to be true? Especially when the Quran does not mention a word about it or even hint at it.
Keeping clean comes down to the discretion of the individual and an average blessed person who is not mentally disabled can work it out on his own. God said "Stay pure and clean". The reverent believer will obey and do what he can to stay clean and retain a pure heart. You can use modern ways now that we live in the 21st century, you do not need to follow practices from the dark ages as long as the result is the same.
You do the same mistake as all people have done before the Messengers came and admonished the people. They did literal interpretation of what they had and they did not use their brains.
Please excuse me if what I wrote is provoking any frustration. Please reply with something that makes sense and not some parroting words. When it comes down to it all, we shall worship the one who sent us and not follow the vain ideas of people who existed before us. Follow the Quran and follow the example of those righteous before you, worship God alone and do not add any man-made conjecture to it.
Thanks, that was all from me for the moment.
God bless you
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Peace Israfeel,
The answer would be no to all or most of what you listed. Please, use your brain. It is common sense that they are things we would not do.
And to put the "thing" up someone's ass is just silly talking. Then you would get shit on your Johnson.
Still, it gives absolutely no reason to open a hadith book. Not at all.
Please, you shall not be so insulting, especially not on baseless grounds.
God bless you
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Peace Israfeel,
The answer would be no to all or most of what you listed. Please, use your brain. It is common sense that they are things we would not do.
And to put the "thing" up someone's ass is just silly talking. Then you would get shit on your Johnson.
Still, it gives absolutely no reason to open a hadith book. Not at all.
Please, you shall not be so insulting, especially not on baseless grounds.
God bless you
Again, this is your opinion. You say you follow Quran, and only Quran is reliable as the Word of God. So please tell me where in the Quran.
After all, if Hadith has no value, then neither your opinion has any value. We should only know what Quran says. So please tell me where does Quran forbid anal sex? In fact Quran says to approach your wife however you want. Also, read my signature, I have quoted a Quran-only woman on this forum "Justamuslim", she says that anal sex is okay and swallowing sperm is okay. And she is a Quran-only woman.
Now let me tell you that our Hadith following women would never write such shameful things. They would die of shame before they could write what this Quran-only woman wrote so casually for the whole world to see. Something to think about.
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Peace Israfeel,
Excuse me, but you come with irrelevant input. The Quran tells you to be clean and pure and an average person would know ways to keep clean. Need no book for that.
So no need for the Quran to tell us how to be clean. Then why are you Quran-only people against circumcision? The reason is because you are saying circumcision is not in the Quran. Look how you are contradicting yourself. Circumcision is essential for cleanliness and purity, but still you people are against it?
The only physical book that ever came down was Quran, the only exact wordings of God, except those inscriptions on stone tablets to Moses which seem to be long gone.
What about the Suhufi Ebrahim wa Mousa (the Scrolls of Abraham and Moses)? Suhuf (plural of Sahifah) is physical paper and scrolls.
What do I choose to follow? Well, I follow the Mosaic law (Ten Commandments),
You follow the Ten Commandments? Do you keep the Sabbath? Also do you know that the Mosaic Law of the Ten Commandments also has punishments for breaking the commandments? One of the Commandments is "Thou shalt not make any graven image", yet Quran-only people say having pictures of people and animals is allowed. Also if you break some of the Ten Commandments like violate the Sabbath, dishonor your parents, commit adultery, or worship an idol - the punishment is to be stoned to death. But Quran-only people say stoning to death is against Quran.
So the reality is that you do not follow the Ten Commandments. You only follow your personal interpretation of the Quran to suit your desires and modern Western culture.
The spirit of Ibrahim lives on in Quran, the Old Testament is too unreliable for any sustained knowledge-seeking. Same goes for Muhammad in my world. They all live on in my Quran.
What is the proof that Quran is reliable and other books are not? The earliest complete manuscript of the Quran is from centuries after the Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) death.
So if you say Old Testament, Bible, Gospel, and Hadith are unreliable, you must also admit that the Quran is unreliable also.
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Peace Israfeel.
You must also read brother Man of Faith posts in here, because he is a mualaf and of course know about Bible teaching more than you.
So if you follow Quran only, you never have to
a. be circumcised
b. remove your pubic hair
c. wash yourself after answering call of nature
d. wash dishes which were used by dogs and other animals
e. clean your teeth
f. wash hands before eating
g. donkey is not haram to eat (Quran only people should eat donkey kebabs)
h. insects and vermin are not haram
i. crow is not haram according to Quran only (Quran only people eat kava biryani)
j. Quran only people allowed to drink urine, eat feces, swallow sperm
k. Quran only people allowed to do anal sex
So the Quran-only people are the biggest joke of humanity
Actually I also recognized if hadith contains good teaching like philosophers sentences, the hygiene like all points you posting, and etc.But is that hadith really 100% from Nabi Muhammad? How if that was man made cause hadith writing is not Prophet's command and Prophet, all Sahabat, none of them became eye witnesses of hadith writing.
It's like Hindu's Scripture, the Hindu's Scripture contains some good teaching similiar with the hadith, but is Hindu's Scripture is from Allah?
Just imagine humans can wrote the Scripture such like Hindu's and Budha's, then it's not imposibble human created narrations such like the Kutub As Asittah.
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So you recognize that Hadith contains good teachings which are not in the Quran.
Good, looks like you're not type a person who reading something carefully.Please read my post carefully before you reply.
I'm also recognize Hindhu and Buddha's Scriptures as good teaching like hadith, but none of them came from Allah like hadith.So why I must have iman on them?
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Good, looks like you're not type a person who reading something carefully.Please read my post carefully before you reply.
I'm also recognize Hindhu and Buddha's Scriptures as good teaching like hadith, but none of them came from Allah like hadith.So why I must have iman on them?
The point is you admit that the good things in Hadith about hygiene, which are not in the Quran. Now you also say you like Hindu and Buddhist scriptures.
So what happened to following Quran only and Quran is the perfect book no other book is necessary. You admitting that Quran does not contain the full guidance, but there is guidance in Hadith and also Hindu/Buddhist books which is not in Quran.
Very good.
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Peace,
Yes it is my opinion. And where does God forbid you to have an opinion? Especially if it is a blessed opinion. God did not tell you to be empty shells not using the processing power he has bestowed you with.
The question is whose opinion you are following.
If they see anal sex as clean then that stands for them. I take no part in that.
Swallowing sperm... Well I think it is nutritious, but I have never tasted it.
So you believe not Quran to be the words of God. Why do you call yourself by the label Muslim? Why not invent your own religion? But you might have done that already...
Have you found any nonsense in the Quran? You should choose your sources carefully.
You misinterpret the commandment about images. It means pictures used in idol worship. And I am sure the phrases are not entirely correctly translated.
The original stone tablets with the original Law is gone. The only existing remnants are the words in the Old Testament. Considering the state of it why follow such words as to stone someone. The Quran does not mention it even once except in negative remarks.
Since you have Quran the words from the Law were transferred to it.
Suit your western style? What do you know about that? Like I said, you have your Knowledge and Wisdom in Quran. What else do you want?
History just repeats itself. People follow conjecture and it necessitates another Messenger to be sent.
And I follow the Ten Commandments, except the stoning because I do not believe it to have been in the original transcript.
Your last argument in your post makes me wonder how you can refer to yourself as a believer. Do you have doubts about the Quran? Can you not see it is from God? And you cannot distinguish between man-made conjecture and the Truth.
Sorry, I was a bit annoyed by your seemingly unblessed nature.
Like I said in an earlier post "Have your system and I will have mine, we will meet at the gathering". Just let people have their opinions.
God bless you
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Swallowing sperm... Well I think it is nutritious
rotfl rotfl rotfl
See this ladies and gentlemen. This is what happens when you reject the Hadith.
Of course I believe in the Quran. But nowhere in Quran does it say "Follow only Quran nothing else". In fact, Quran stresses several times to follow the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaih wasallam)
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Peace Israfeel,
If you did not notice, I was being ironical or even sarcastic.
Perhaps a little test to see how fast you would come up with conclusive ideas.
Yes, Quran tells you to follow him, but he as a guide is dead and we can only follow his legacy, ie the Quran. Again you are faced back with the Quran. Try again please.
In what hadith other than His do you choose to follow? Yes, God stated that in His book.
Follow the Messenger; yes God wrote that in His Book too, but you cannot follow a dead man, can you? Muhammad was only revealing the Quran, reciting it to his people. That was his duty. And to show what Faith in God can accomplish.
God bless you
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Peace Israfeel,
If you did not notice, I was being ironical or even sarcastic.
Perhaps a little test to see how fast you would come up with conclusive ideas.
Yes, Quran tells you to follow him, but he as a guide is dead and we can only follow his legacy, ie the Quran. Again you are faced back with the Quran. Try again please.
In what hadith other than His do you choose to follow? Yes, God stated that in His book.
Follow the Messenger; yes God wrote that in His Book too, but you cannot follow a dead man, can you? Muhammad was only revealing the Quran, reciting it to his people. That was his duty. And to show what Faith in God can accomplish.
God bless you
Why is it impossible to follow someone who has died if we knew everything about him? Even today many people follow the teachings and ideas of dead people, like Buddha, Gandhi, George Washington, Elvis Prestly, etc.
Why is it impossible to follow the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him especially when his teachings have been preserved in the Hadith?
By the way Quran says to take whatever the Prophet gives you and abstain from whatever he forbids you. Now we know that Quran is for all time and all people, it is a universal book. But the way you read Quran, half of its commandments no longer apply today. It shows that in reality you are going against Quran.
Also Allah says that the Prophet is not only given Al-Kitab (Quran), but also Al-Hikmah. Now my question to you is what is Al-Hikmah??
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So the Quran-only people are the biggest joke of humanity
So what you are saying is that what God has commanded is a joke? It is God who gave mankind the Koran, and the faculties (the brain, the vision, wisdom, etc) and told us to follow only His guidance. God did not command that we listen and follow stories told by Abu huraira and company.
I suggest that you read God's words again. Again keep in mind that everything you say and do are being recorded on God's tablet and at the end you have go answer to God. Keep in mind that God is also a member of this forum and listening/reading our posts.
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Of course I believe in the Quran. But nowhere in Quran does it say "Follow only Quran nothing else". In fact, Quran stresses several times to follow the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaih wasallam)
If you really believed in the Koran, then you would believe it when God said the Koran is complete, DETAILED and not look for guidance elsewhere in the stories told by Abu huraira and company.
If you really followed Muhammed then you will do what Muhammed did which is listen to God taking Koran as his guidance. Instead what you do is listen to stories and lies told by people like abu huraira and company about God and the prophets.
I suggest that you seek God for guidance, meditate and contemplate the words of God, thinking of he essence of God and what God cares about and what we will be judged on at the end.
I suggest that you truly follow the Koran and not make any distinction between the messengers and think of the message that prophets including Muhammed relayed.
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Peace,
Because history is always beautified and corrupted with honoring things which never took place, or they are always in favor of the "hero".
Many historic figures are portrayed more righteous than they really were in their life. They may have been good, but not "that good".
The Quran is good because it is our answer keys.
God bless you