Children of Israel, Pharaoh and Egypt
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Peace huruf,
I completely understand where you are coming from and I'm remaining open minded about as I look into it more. One thing though about Moses going to Pharaoh was that he was already within the family of Pharaoh before - a possible hint that the two ethnicities were not so hugely different in looks etc if he could be brought up and raised as one of another 'tribe' or 'group'. So, from the other perspective, we could say it was easier for someone like Moses to go in front of Pharaoh? I'm not saying that means its Egypt, but its just part of the story. That he doesn't mention the Nile though - that's a good point, either the Quran wants to leave it open ended if it is Egypt or it's not Egypt.
Thanks for your help.
Fir3awn is boasting, which obviously he loved to do. If he really was the ruler of Egypt he would not boast like that, however he might know Musa. With a country like Egypt you certainly you can boast far, far higher than what he did. Also if he was the ruler of Egypt even if he knew Musa, it would not be likely that he would entertain with him such kind of interview being what he was. But it might be thinkable if he was just a lesser tribal or city ruler.
Salaam
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I personnaly think that in the Reading God is intentionnaly vague on geographical location and these stories are but (real) examples for humanity, these stories can be translocated anywhere on earth where any king/governor could oppress people for their origin/religion e.g. Hitler and nazism in Germany, Appartheid in South Africa, Arabs in Palestine etc...
There is no intentional "vagueness" on the part of the Quran. The problem is with the understanding of the future generations. The audience of the Quran (Muhammad and his people) knew exactly where the theater of the events was. And I still maintain, to this day, that the names Misr, Badr, Yathrib, Midyan, al-Ahqaf, Bakkah, and Tur Seena are actual places, not symbols in a vacuum.
However, I do agree with you that the message of those stories may very well be translocated as examples all over the world. The Pharaohs, Hamans, and Qaroons exist all around us today, and have succeeded in dumbing down and enslaving humanity all across the globe, with their corrupt system of politics-religion-finance and "magic" (trickery) of their deceitful media. So, yes, we can understand the Quranic message even if we do not care to know where the events took place.
The importance of discovering the theater of the events serves other purposes
1- Determine where and when the Quran was revealed, and who was Muhammad? (I think we have the right to now this).
2- Expose the crimes of the hijackers and counterfeiters of history.
3- Expose a fraudulent methodology in dealing with the signs of the Quran, and how the Muslims resort to their "acrobatics", as they twist and distort the meanings of the passages to make them fit with pre-established creeds.
4- Expose the racial and ideological interpretations of those who use the religious texts to impose their imperialist ideas.If I didn't think these reasons were important, I would not have gone through the trouble of compiling these books, and dedicating 9 years of my life to this research.
Regards.
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If anyone's interested about the Nile and how it was known in Ancient Egyptian language, I did a search and apparently wikipedia says "In the ancient Egyptian language, the Nile is called 'p or Iteru, meaning "great river", represented by the hieroglyphs shown on the left (literally itrw, and 'waters' determinative). In Coptic, the words piaro (Sahidic) or phiaro (Bohairic) meaning "the river" (lit. p(h).iar-o "the.canal-great" come from the same ancient name." https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile
This whole thing is very curious. In researching this, it is still best to remain open minded to the possibility it isn't Egypt, otherwise then there is no point in looking into it further as our mind would already be made up.
There is definitely value in looking into this further if we wish to do so, though.
Thank you to all who have contributed to this thread.
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Well, in my case there would be no point to continue writing because I am fully convinced it is NOT Egypt.
As far as I know the Nile in Arabic is now Nil and I do not have any news that it has ever been anything else.
There is an Arabic root n-y-l but I wouldn't know by what way it might have come to the name Nil, a more likely one as to meaning, would be n-w-l which means to gift, give, present, etc. since it is said that Egypt is a gift of the Nile. May be some crack in Arabic con enlighten us.
Salaam
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Salaam supportpeacenotwar and all.
Like I said in your another thread if I'm not too interested in history, but I found some clues for this
- Pharoah is the ruler who want to saw the God by created the tall building.
4036-37 And Pharaoh said ?O Haamaan, build for me a high platform that I may uncover the secrets.? ?The secrets of the heavens, so that I may take a look at the god of Moses; though I think he is a liar.? Thus the evil works of Pharaoh were adorned for him, and he was blocked from the path. And the planning of Pharaoh brought nothing but regret.
As far as I know, the ruler who want to did this is Namrudz of Babilonia during Ibrahim era.But you may search another ruler who did similiar.
- We may see the corpse of Pharaoh this day.
1092 ?This day, We will preserve your body, so that you become a sign for those after you.? But most of the people are unaware of Our signs!
This means Pharoah's body was survived until this day for our sign or lesson.
How to identify which one is this pharaoh's corpse, read this ayat.
1090 And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But
when he was certain to drown, he said ?I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I
am of those who have submitted.?See.The Pharaoh killed by drowning, so this means his corpse contain mineral of waters such like salt etc.
And there is discovery of the Pharaoh's mummies which founded in Red Sea and his body was contains salt, and possibility he is that Pharaoh of Exodus, see http//www.ezsoftech.com/giknowledge/firaun.mummy.asp
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBjvpAbtHs8Hope this help.
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Salaam supportpeacenotwar and all.
Like I said in your another thread if I'm not too interested in history, but I found some clues for this
- Pharoah is the ruler who want to saw the God by created the tall building.
4036-37 And Pharaoh said ?O Haamaan, build for me a high platform that I may uncover the secrets.? ?The secrets of the heavens, so that I may take a look at the god of Moses; though I think he is a liar.? Thus the evil works of Pharaoh were adorned for him, and he was blocked from the path. And the planning of Pharaoh brought nothing but regret.
As far as I know, the ruler who want to did this is Namrudz of Babilonia during Ibrahim era.
- We may see the corpse of Pharaoh this day.
1092 ?This day, We will preserve your body, so that you become a sign for those after you.? But most of the people are unaware of Our signs!
This means Pharoah's body was survived until this day for our sign or lesson.
How to identify which one is this pharaoh's corpse, read this ayat.
1090 And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But
when he was certain to drown, he said ?I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I
am of those who have submitted.?See.The Pharaoh killed by drowning, so this means his corpse contain mineral of waters such like salt etc.
And there is discovery of the Pharaoh's mummies which founded in Red Sea and his body was contains salt, and possibility he is that Pharaoh of Exodus, see http//www.ezsoftech.com/giknowledge/firaun.mummy.asp
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBjvpAbtHs8Hope this help.
It does not say it is a saign to this day. It says for his successors.
On the other hand there is a lot of wishful thinking concerning the identifications of pharos and pharaos of the exodus. In the first place archeologists did not find anything that spoke of bani Israil, simply took whatever seemed to them closer to that word and decided than since there was no better finding than that that had to be Israel. Which is really not scientific at all.
On the other hand I have looked to see which was the purported pharaoh of the exodus and his momy was found all right, but no mention of any sign of being drowned. In view of that they looked for another pharaoh for the job, but neither he is dorwned.
So, please, whoever upholds a kings of Egyt being the fir3awn of the Qur'an please give name of pharaoh and more details, because there have been quite a number of kings of Egypt.
However, the body of Fir3awn, the Quranic lord, may have been recovered by his successors and have been an aya for them, and through the Qur'an narration an aya for everybody, but nobody has looked for things like that anywhere but in Egypt.
Salaam
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Peace huruf.
It does not say it is a saign to this day. It says for his successors.
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Yes you're true, if the word "khalfaka" or "khalifah" mean succesor, but it's a wrong way if we tafseer it too literally,
Example is the word "khalifah" in 230, is this means we literally became succesor of Allah? &. -
Quran was sent down in 6 century, so how the succesor of Pharaoh is still exist, by looking the distance of time between Musa and Muhammad.
So, please, whoever upholds a kings of Egyt being the fir3awn of the Qur'an please give name of pharaoh and more details, because there have been quite a number of kings of Egypt.
I already posting the site for sources, and the mummy is Ramses II.Actually not only that site which give such information but you may find another sites talking similiar
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Why should a succesor to anybody in the past exist now? That aya we have it in the Qur'an, and those before that either they did have the memory of the event or they didn't know the aya as explained by the Qur'an. There is no record in Egypt that anybody ever remembered or recorded anything concerning any Musa who had anything to do with any king of Egypt.
Ramses II did not die by drowning. That is, there is no hint whatsoever that any Egyptian had anything to do with it. And even if an Egyptian king had drowned that would be no proof that he had anything to do with Musa. They had plenty of sea battles without the help of the Bible.
Salaam
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Peace huruf.
- Yes you're true, if the word "khalfaka" or "khalifah" mean succesor, but it's a wrong way if we tafseer it too literally,
Example is the word "khalifah" in 230, is this means we literally became succesor of Allah? &.
Salaamun alayka brother,
RED Allahs ayaats are very clear, He knows what He wants to say yes
BLUE It does not say "successor of Allah" nopeSalaam,
Bender - Yes you're true, if the word "khalfaka" or "khalifah" mean succesor, but it's a wrong way if we tafseer it too literally,
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Peace Family,
What other countries besides Egypt had pharoahs? If Egypt is the country of pharoah
and if moses went to pharoah, and pharoah was in Egypt, then Moses went to Egypt
To retrieve his folk. Moses came after joseph who preceded his family to Egypt, therefore
the Israelites were in Egypt, Jacob the father of Joseph saidHad you witnessed Jacob on his death bed; he said to his children, "What will
you worship after I die?" They said, "We will worship your god; the god of your fathers
Abraham, Ismail, and Isaac; the one god. To Him we are submitters."I hope this is helpful
All have a blessed ramadan
peace
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Peace Family,
What other countries besides Egypt had pharoahs? If Egypt is the country of pharoah
and if moses went to pharoah, and pharoah was in Egypt, then Moses went to Egypt
To retrieve his folk. Moses came after joseph who preceded his family to Egypt, therefore
the Israelites were in Egypt, Jacob the father of Joseph saidHad you witnessed Jacob on his death bed; he said to his children, "What will
you worship after I die?" They said, "We will worship your god; the god of your fathers
Abraham, Ismail, and Isaac; the one god. To Him we are submitters."I hope this is helpful
All have a blessed ramadan
peace
Salaam,
at the beginning of the thread there is a remission to Pazuzu's book on the matter and to a thread on the matter too. I think you should read those before discussing further this question.
Misr in the Qur'an is not Egypt. It cannot be Egypt.
Salaam
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Peace all
Ramses II did not die by drowning. That is, there is no hint whatsoever that any Egyptian had anything to do with it. And even if an Egyptian king had drowned that would be no proof that he had anything to do with Musa. They had plenty of sea battles without the help of the Bible.
The only battle in red sea is Pharaoh of Exosud.@Hawk 99 is true if all of our Nabi are in same lineage, so most of their settlement is in the middle east especially in Palestine and Egypt, then the Pharaoh who had dealt with Musa must be a ruler in that region.
Ok I have no idea about this again, but I will give the link which give more clear evidences.
http//www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/chariot-wheels.htm
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXf2IDS-9g0BLUE It does not say "successor of Allah" nope
Wa'alaikum salam Bender.
BLUE230 And your Lord said to the angels ?I am placing a successor on
the earth.?........"If you disagree, so what is the meaning of "khalifa" in 230 according to you so it will became fit with the aayat?.
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Wa'alaikum salam Bender.
BLUE230 And your Lord said to the angels ?I am placing a successor on
the earth.?........"If you disagree, so what is the meaning of "khalifa" in 230 according to you so it will became fit with the aayat?.
salaamun alayka,
You said succesor of Allah
The ayaat says a succesorsalaam,
Bender -
Walaykum salam Bender.
I don't know what do you mean bro?
If Allah said "I will place my succesor in the earth", so this mean it's indirect said if Allah's position will be replaced by human &.
It's like if you say " I will place my succesor in the office", so this means you already arrange the succesor, so the succesor will replacing your position soon.
Salaaam
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Walaykum salam Bender.
I don't know what do you mean bro?
If Allah said "I will place my succesor in the earth", so this mean it's indirect said if Allah's position will be replaced by human &.
It's like if you say " I will place my succesor in the office", so this means you already arrange the succesor, so the succesor will replacing your position soon.
Salaaam
Salaamuna alyka bro,
There is no "MY" in the ayaat )
salaam,
Bender -
The word my is exist or not, the result is no different lol o
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Walaykum salam Bender.
I don't know what do you mean bro?
If Allah said "I will place my succesor in the earth", so this mean it's indirect said if Allah's position will be replaced by human &.
It's like if you say " I will place my succesor in the office", so this means you already arrange the succesor, so the succesor will replacing your position soon.
Salaaam
highlights above are from me.
230,
And recall what time thine Lord said unto the angels verily I am going to place a vicegerent On the earth. They said wilt Thou place therein one who will act corruptly therein and shed blood While we hallow Thine praise and glorify Thee! Allah said verily I know that which ye know not.
In the verse above GOD says A REPLACEMENT/successor, not MY successor.
GOD is replacing a NEW, more evolved, generation of HUMANS with the previous, less evolved ones, on Earth.
Peace,
Khalil -
The word my is exist or not, the result is no different lol
Khalifa, khalaf, istakhlafa, khulafa' .... the various derivatives of this word appear a dozen times in the Quran, and never change their meaning SUCCESSOR
You can look up all instances of this word and verify for yourself how the Quran uses it. Nations or peoples die, perish, become extinct, and are succeeded by others. This is the process of Istikhlaf.
Claiming that humans are the successors of Allah is tantamount to blasphemy, as Allah is eternal and omnipresent.
The passage you refer to states that Allah told the Malai'ka of His intention to make humankind (Adam and his progeny) the successor of a savage hominid race that existed before. This has been unquestionably proven by science, as the fossilized bones of these hominids have been unearthed, and showed that they co-existed with homo-sapiens - for a period of time - before they died out and became extinct. This is the Khilafa that the Quran is talking about.
Peace...