Fast Poll
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To define the Arabic ?shahr? as being constituted of 10 days whilst taking into account the Quran?s use of the word as being a solar-lunar month of 28-30 days is not tenable.
To define the start of a lunar month as being anything other than the lunar system definition of post-sunset crescent birth is invention.
To define Ramadan, or any other lunar month at that, as being marked by seasonal astronomical solar events is an astronomical heresy.
Ramadan is constituted of 28-30 days (depending on the method of determination of the crescent birth, whether by visibility or by mathematical determination).
Ramadan starts at sunset of the evening following the day of the birth of the new moon.
Ramadan is a lunar month of twelve lunar months which, together, constitute a lunar year.
This is what I have observed of my studies of the Quran, Arabic, and basic astronomy.
My studies are on-going.
Salaamun alayka,
I am also studying this, but I did not reach the same results as you.
Can you back up every claim with a Quran verse please.Salaam,
Bender -
peace all,
is there anywhere mentioned in Quraan regarding seeing fullmoon or crescent moon or moon to start fasting.
peace.
Salaamun alayka,
No I do not think so, but I also do not believe it is somewhere mentioned that we have to start at the beginning of the arabic month Ramadan.
Salaam,
Bender -
Peace everyone
Dear brother Ayman and Abdellilah, I already read your explanation in another thread and quoted this
A common misconception is that the word "shahr" means month. However, the term "shahr" doesn't mean month. According to Classical Arabic dictionaries, the Arabs used to call the moon "shahr". But what phase of the moon does the word "shahr" imply?
You claim if Classical Arab using the word shahr for mentioning ?moon?, but I have some evidences
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In Lane Lexicon page 1612 in section , reffering the word shahr as month not moon.
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From Quran Kareem.
2189
" They ask you regarding the crescent/new moons, say ?They are a timing mechanism for the people and the Pilgrimage.? And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whoever is righteous and comes to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of God that you may succeed."NOTEThis verse mentioning moon but not using the word "shahr".Plus read this verse 2197
2197
"The Pilgrimage months are made known. So whoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage therein, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor wickedness, nor baseless argument in the Pilgrimage. And any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is righteousness; and be aware of Me O you who possess intelligence."NOTEVerse 2197 mention the word month with "ashhurun"/shahr.The word ashurun is jamak (plurar), so it's impossible if this word referring to moon.
- I quoted from some hadith which also posses Classical Arab
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( Sunan an-Nasa'i 2106)
RED "which is better than a thousand months; whoever is deprived of its goodness is indeed deprived"
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(Muslim Book 9, Hadith 271)RED "Did the Messenger of Allah use to observe three days of Saum in every month?
From that hadith the usage of word ?shahr? in both two sentences not referring moon at all instead month.
I'm also try to searching in Lisan Al Arab, but I'm not found anything.
So Mr Ayman and Mr Abdellilah, what dictionary you used which said if shahr means moon or full moon??
Hope you understand my explanation.
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Peace All,
You cannot consider this a proper poll when you have not included fasting for 3 days, or indeed, a fast that does not include food. This is probably why you are not receiving many votes. I for one cannot vote, because there is not a category for me.
Dawn.
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/Al-Muslimeen means "the MUSLIMS", people who follow the religion of ISLAM.
Peace -- then you would not translate below and apply to cow?
271 said surely he says surely she/it cow not trained to raise the earth and not to irrigate the crop/harvest musallamatun not blemish in her/it...
2128 lord ours and make us muslimuna to you and from descendants ours community mus'limatan to you...
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Peace -- then you would not translate below and apply to cow?
271 said surely he says surely she/it cow not trained to raise the earth and not to irrigate the crop/harvest musallamatun not blemish in her/it...
2128 lord ours and make us muslimuna to you and from descendants ours community mus'limatan to you...
Salaamun alayka,
You do not understand, it is only for others haram, for him it's halal.
CLICKsalaam,
Bender -
Peace -- then you would not translate below and apply to cow?
271 said surely he says surely she/it cow not trained to raise the earth and not to irrigate the crop/harvest musallamatun not blemish in her/it...
2128 lord ours and make us muslimuna to you and from descendants ours community mus'limatan to you...
Again, you are comparing APPLES and ORANGES here. That is why in response to one of your previous posts I mentioned that understanding basic Arabic is imperative to understanding of The Qur'aan.
In 271 the word , pronounced "MUSALLAMATAN" and means "sound or whole", it is an ADJECTIVE and needs to be translated to convey its meaning.
In 2128 the words and pronounced "MUSLEMEEN" and "MUSLIMATUN" meaning "MUSLIMS" and "MUSLIM" respectively, they are both NOUNs. Nouns are not to be translated.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace Earthdom,
This verse mentioning moon but not using the word "shahr".
2189 mentions / the crescents. The word for moon is .
Verse 2197 mention the word month with "ashhurun"/shahr.The word ashurun is jamak (plurar), so it's impossible if this word referring to moon.
2197 mentions / full moons.
I'm also try to searching in Lisan Al Arab, but I'm not found anything.
So Mr Ayman and Mr Abdellilah, what dictionary you used which said if shahr means moon or full moon??Lisaan Al-Arab
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Abdelilah
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Peace Dawn,
You cannot consider this a proper poll when you have not included fasting for 3 days, or indeed, a fast that does not include food.
It's a proper poll if you want to know how many people agree with the subject title, how many disagree, and how many are not sure. It's my poll, so I can put whatever options I like.
I for one cannot vote, because there is not a category for me.
There is one option called "No."
Abdelilah
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Again, you are comparing APPLES and ORANGES here. That is why in response to one of your previous posts I mentioned that understanding basic Arabic is imperative to understanding of The Qur'aan.
In 271 the word , pronounced "MUSALLAMATAN" and means "sound or whole", it is an ADJECTIVE and needs to be translated to convey its meaning.
In 2128 the words and pronounced "MUSLEMEEN" and "MUSLIMATUN" meaning "MUSLIMS" and "MUSLIM" respectively,they are both NOUNs. Nouns are not to be translated.
21288
mus'limatan
submissive
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=2278
ADJ ? accusative feminine indefinite (form IV) active participlePeace - understanding basic logic is imperative to understanding of Qur'an.
Yes nouns like house, troublemaker, and peacemaker are to be translated.peacemaker
Noun
A person who brings about peace, esp. by reconciling adversaries.
Synonyms
conciliator - pacifier - make-peace - pacificatorpeaceful
Adjective
Free from disturbance; tranquil.
Not involving war or violence.
Synonyms
quiet - pacific - peaceable - calm - placid - tranquil2185 shr/cycle
Noun
A series of events that are regularly repeated in the same order. -
Peace - understanding basic logic is imperative to understanding of Qur'an.
Yes nouns like cycle, troublemakers, and peacemakers are to be translated.peacemaker
Noun
A person who brings about peace, esp. by reconciling adversaries.
Synonyms
conciliator - pacifier - make-peace - pacificatorpeaceful
Adjective
Free from disturbance; tranquil.
Not involving war or violence.
Synonyms
quiet - pacific - peaceable - calm - placid - tranquil2185 shr/cycle
Noun
A series of events that are regularly repeated in the same order.Please read the article through the link below to find out why one is not to translate nouns especially proper names with global recognition.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605535.msg333513#msg333513
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace Abdelilah,
You are right. It is your poll so you can do whatever you like. Absolutely right.
Dawn.
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Please read the article through the link below to find out why one is not to translate nouns especially proper names with global recognition.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605535.msg333513#msg333513
Yes read that; please explain how a cow can be Muslim according to you?
27113
musallamatun
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=1127
ADJ ? nominative feminine indefinite (form II) passive participle21288
mus'limatan
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=2278
ADJ ? accusative feminine indefinite (form IV) active participlePeace
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Yes read that; please explain how a cow can be Muslim according to you?
27113
musallamatun
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=1127
ADJ ? nominative feminine indefinite (form II) passive participle21288
mus'limatan
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=2278
ADJ ? accusative feminine indefinite (form IV) active participlePeace
If you pay a bit more attention to the DIACRITICAL signs on these two words you'll find out that the two words are quite different; they pronounce differently with quite different meanings.
, in 271, pronounces "musallamatun" and means "whole" or "sound".
, in 2128, pronounces "muslimatan" and means "Muslim".
Peace,
Khalil -
, in 2128, pronounces "muslimatan" and means "Muslim".
By your definition of Muslim whatever that is -- can you be Muslim to someone else?
Are you suggesting it says they asked that their descendants become a community of ?Muslim females to you??
2128 lord ours and make us mus'limayni (masculine dual) to you and from descendants ours community mus'limatan (adjective feminine) to you?
665 perhaps lord his if divorce you that shall substitute for him spouses of better of from you mus'limtin (adjective feminine) believers (adjective feminine) obedient (adjective feminine) repentant (adjective feminine)?
Peace
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Yes read that; please explain how a cow can be Muslim according to you?
27113
musallamatun
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=1127
ADJ ? nominative feminine indefinite (form II) passive participle21288
mus'limatan
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=2278
ADJ ? accusative feminine indefinite (form IV) active participlePeace
I am surprised- most of us are cows , and we don't know it.
A cow that is muslim rotfl bravo
Good going man.
peace
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I am surprised- most of us are cows , and we don't know it.
A cow that is muslim rotfl bravo
Good going man.
peace
Like I said before, if you want to understand The Qur'aan on your own you need to have a basic knowledge of the Arabic language; or at least use a dictionary to learn the meanings of individual words. Here we go again.
, in 271, pronounces "musallamatun" and means "whole", "sound" or "healthy". The verse talking about a Wholesome, sound, and healthy cow. It does NOT mean a "Muslim cow" as you imagine out ignorance regarding the Arabic language.
, in 2128, pronounces "muslimatan" and means "Muslim".
Peace,
Khalil -
Like I said before, if you want to understand The Qur'aan on your own you need to have a basic knowledge of the Arabic language; or at least use a dictionary to learn the meanings of individual words. Here we go again.
Peace -- why do you continue to not answer questions and repeat contradictions clearly pointed out?
By your definition of Muslim whatever that is -- can you be Muslim to someone else?
Are you suggesting it says they asked that their descendants become a community of ?Muslim females to you??
2128 lord ours and make us mus'limayni (masculine dual) to you and from descendants ours community mus'limatan (adjective feminine) to you?
665 perhaps lord his if divorce you that shall substitute for him spouses of better of from you mus'limtin (adjective feminine) believers (adjective feminine) obedient (adjective feminine) repentant (adjective feminine)?
Peace
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By your definition of Muslim whatever that is -- can you be Muslim to someone else?
Are you suggesting it says they asked that their descendants become a community of ?Muslim females to you??...
The red highlights above are from me.
1st A Muslim is Muslim to ALLAAH, swt, not to anyone else.
2nd Again because you are ignorant regarding the Arabic language you get the wrong meaning from the verse 2128 below.
Our Lord! And make us Muslims unto Thee and of our seed a Muslim nation unto Thee, and show us our ways of worship, and relent toward us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Relenting, the Merciful.
is grammatically feminine and relates to the word right before it, i.e. the word which is also a feminine noun and together, i.e. mean "a Muslim nation". It does not mean "Muslim females" as you wrongly think.
Peace,
Khalil