Fast Poll
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Peace -- then you would not translate below and apply to cow?
271 said surely he says surely she/it cow not trained to raise the earth and not to irrigate the crop/harvest musallamatun not blemish in her/it...
2128 lord ours and make us muslimuna to you and from descendants ours community mus'limatan to you...
Again, you are comparing APPLES and ORANGES here. That is why in response to one of your previous posts I mentioned that understanding basic Arabic is imperative to understanding of The Qur'aan.
In 271 the word , pronounced "MUSALLAMATAN" and means "sound or whole", it is an ADJECTIVE and needs to be translated to convey its meaning.
In 2128 the words and pronounced "MUSLEMEEN" and "MUSLIMATUN" meaning "MUSLIMS" and "MUSLIM" respectively, they are both NOUNs. Nouns are not to be translated.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace Earthdom,
This verse mentioning moon but not using the word "shahr".
2189 mentions / the crescents. The word for moon is .
Verse 2197 mention the word month with "ashhurun"/shahr.The word ashurun is jamak (plurar), so it's impossible if this word referring to moon.
2197 mentions / full moons.
I'm also try to searching in Lisan Al Arab, but I'm not found anything.
So Mr Ayman and Mr Abdellilah, what dictionary you used which said if shahr means moon or full moon??Lisaan Al-Arab
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Abdelilah
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Peace Dawn,
You cannot consider this a proper poll when you have not included fasting for 3 days, or indeed, a fast that does not include food.
It's a proper poll if you want to know how many people agree with the subject title, how many disagree, and how many are not sure. It's my poll, so I can put whatever options I like.
I for one cannot vote, because there is not a category for me.
There is one option called "No."
Abdelilah
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Again, you are comparing APPLES and ORANGES here. That is why in response to one of your previous posts I mentioned that understanding basic Arabic is imperative to understanding of The Qur'aan.
In 271 the word , pronounced "MUSALLAMATAN" and means "sound or whole", it is an ADJECTIVE and needs to be translated to convey its meaning.
In 2128 the words and pronounced "MUSLEMEEN" and "MUSLIMATUN" meaning "MUSLIMS" and "MUSLIM" respectively,they are both NOUNs. Nouns are not to be translated.
21288
mus'limatan
submissive
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=2278
ADJ ? accusative feminine indefinite (form IV) active participlePeace - understanding basic logic is imperative to understanding of Qur'an.
Yes nouns like house, troublemaker, and peacemaker are to be translated.peacemaker
Noun
A person who brings about peace, esp. by reconciling adversaries.
Synonyms
conciliator - pacifier - make-peace - pacificatorpeaceful
Adjective
Free from disturbance; tranquil.
Not involving war or violence.
Synonyms
quiet - pacific - peaceable - calm - placid - tranquil2185 shr/cycle
Noun
A series of events that are regularly repeated in the same order. -
Peace - understanding basic logic is imperative to understanding of Qur'an.
Yes nouns like cycle, troublemakers, and peacemakers are to be translated.peacemaker
Noun
A person who brings about peace, esp. by reconciling adversaries.
Synonyms
conciliator - pacifier - make-peace - pacificatorpeaceful
Adjective
Free from disturbance; tranquil.
Not involving war or violence.
Synonyms
quiet - pacific - peaceable - calm - placid - tranquil2185 shr/cycle
Noun
A series of events that are regularly repeated in the same order.Please read the article through the link below to find out why one is not to translate nouns especially proper names with global recognition.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605535.msg333513#msg333513
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace Abdelilah,
You are right. It is your poll so you can do whatever you like. Absolutely right.
Dawn.
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Please read the article through the link below to find out why one is not to translate nouns especially proper names with global recognition.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605535.msg333513#msg333513
Yes read that; please explain how a cow can be Muslim according to you?
27113
musallamatun
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=1127
ADJ ? nominative feminine indefinite (form II) passive participle21288
mus'limatan
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=2278
ADJ ? accusative feminine indefinite (form IV) active participlePeace
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Yes read that; please explain how a cow can be Muslim according to you?
27113
musallamatun
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=1127
ADJ ? nominative feminine indefinite (form II) passive participle21288
mus'limatan
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=2278
ADJ ? accusative feminine indefinite (form IV) active participlePeace
If you pay a bit more attention to the DIACRITICAL signs on these two words you'll find out that the two words are quite different; they pronounce differently with quite different meanings.
, in 271, pronounces "musallamatun" and means "whole" or "sound".
, in 2128, pronounces "muslimatan" and means "Muslim".
Peace,
Khalil -
, in 2128, pronounces "muslimatan" and means "Muslim".
By your definition of Muslim whatever that is -- can you be Muslim to someone else?
Are you suggesting it says they asked that their descendants become a community of ?Muslim females to you??
2128 lord ours and make us mus'limayni (masculine dual) to you and from descendants ours community mus'limatan (adjective feminine) to you?
665 perhaps lord his if divorce you that shall substitute for him spouses of better of from you mus'limtin (adjective feminine) believers (adjective feminine) obedient (adjective feminine) repentant (adjective feminine)?
Peace
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Yes read that; please explain how a cow can be Muslim according to you?
27113
musallamatun
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=1127
ADJ ? nominative feminine indefinite (form II) passive participle21288
mus'limatan
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=2278
ADJ ? accusative feminine indefinite (form IV) active participlePeace
I am surprised- most of us are cows , and we don't know it.
A cow that is muslim rotfl bravo
Good going man.
peace
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I am surprised- most of us are cows , and we don't know it.
A cow that is muslim rotfl bravo
Good going man.
peace
Like I said before, if you want to understand The Qur'aan on your own you need to have a basic knowledge of the Arabic language; or at least use a dictionary to learn the meanings of individual words. Here we go again.
, in 271, pronounces "musallamatun" and means "whole", "sound" or "healthy". The verse talking about a Wholesome, sound, and healthy cow. It does NOT mean a "Muslim cow" as you imagine out ignorance regarding the Arabic language.
, in 2128, pronounces "muslimatan" and means "Muslim".
Peace,
Khalil -
Like I said before, if you want to understand The Qur'aan on your own you need to have a basic knowledge of the Arabic language; or at least use a dictionary to learn the meanings of individual words. Here we go again.
Peace -- why do you continue to not answer questions and repeat contradictions clearly pointed out?
By your definition of Muslim whatever that is -- can you be Muslim to someone else?
Are you suggesting it says they asked that their descendants become a community of ?Muslim females to you??
2128 lord ours and make us mus'limayni (masculine dual) to you and from descendants ours community mus'limatan (adjective feminine) to you?
665 perhaps lord his if divorce you that shall substitute for him spouses of better of from you mus'limtin (adjective feminine) believers (adjective feminine) obedient (adjective feminine) repentant (adjective feminine)?
Peace
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By your definition of Muslim whatever that is -- can you be Muslim to someone else?
Are you suggesting it says they asked that their descendants become a community of ?Muslim females to you??...
The red highlights above are from me.
1st A Muslim is Muslim to ALLAAH, swt, not to anyone else.
2nd Again because you are ignorant regarding the Arabic language you get the wrong meaning from the verse 2128 below.
Our Lord! And make us Muslims unto Thee and of our seed a Muslim nation unto Thee, and show us our ways of worship, and relent toward us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Relenting, the Merciful.
is grammatically feminine and relates to the word right before it, i.e. the word which is also a feminine noun and together, i.e. mean "a Muslim nation". It does not mean "Muslim females" as you wrongly think.
Peace,
Khalil -
2ND ?The Qur?aan? is a proper name and is not supposed to be translated when used in another language like English. Muhammad is Muhammad no matter in what language. Translating The Qur?aan to ?the great reading? is certainly a great disrespect to its divine origin and stature, if not a blasphemy. The Torah (the Old Testament) is the Torah, the Injeel (the New Testament) is the Injeel, and the Qur?aan (the Last Testament), should likewise be the Qur?aan.
3RD The terms ?Islam? and ?Muslims? must not be translated either, not to an even somewhat popular terms like ?submitting? and ?submitters?, let alone ?peace making? and ?peace makers?! CHRISTIANS follow CHRISTIANITY, JEWS follow JUDAISM, and by the same token, MUSLIMS follow ISLAM. Now back to our main topic.
Peace kgwithnob,
The reason why the name Muhammad stays the same and is not translated is because there
is no convenient English equivalent to Muhammad.The word Quran also should not be translated because there is no acceptable English equivalent.
Christian is a translation from the Arabic wal-nar or
the Nazarenes. 2/62Jew is a translation from the Arabic hd 5/41
Submitter can be a translation of Muslim
Submission can be a translation of Islam
God can be a translation of Allah
However, Peacemaker is a poor translation for Muslim because it denotes a go between
and not one who has surrendered.The word ?Allaah?, just like its equivalent word, ?God? in English, must be treated just the same when it comes to writing it in English, i.e. we must CAPITALIZE it. Otherwise, we?ve not appreciated His majesty?s stature the way He deserves. God must not be replaced by ?the god?.
Agreed, to have my name begin with caps and not God's is indeed offensive and blasphemous.
Your main point is understood that there are those who sell the religion for a cheap price,
i.e., to satisfy their ego.Hey! we are in the last ten days of Ramadan, Insha'Allah congrats are on the way!
peace
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Peace kgwithnob,
The reason why the name Muhammad stays the same and is not translated is because there
is no convenient English equivalent to Muhammad.The word Quran also should not be translated because there is no acceptable English equivalent.
Christian is a translation from the Arabic wal-nar or
the Nazarenes. 2/62Jew is a translation from the Arabic hd 5/41
Submitter can be a translation of Muslim
Submission can be a translation of Islam
God can be a translation of Allah
However, Peacemaker is a poor translation for Muslim because it denotes a go between
and not one who has surrendered.Agreed, to have my name begin with caps and not God's is indeed offensive and blasphemous.
Your main point is understood that there are those who sell the religion for a cheap price,
i.e., to satisfy their ego.Hey! we are in the last ten days of Ramadan, Insha'Allah congrats are on the way!
peace
Happy Ramadzaan Dear hawk99,
My main point in emphasizing on NOT to change the proper names, especially the religious ones, to one's impulsive and egoistical likings, is that there are ideological, historical, and cultural values that they carry with them. Religious proper names are an integral part of the beliefs and religious values of billions of people around the world and over the centuries have earned their own global recognition.
Peace,
Khalil -
Whatever the word might had been at the time of Abraham, pbuh, ALLAAH, swt, has used its equivalent in Arabic, which is /Al-Muslimeen.
So the god translated the universal concept of "al-muslimeen" into Arabic because it is a meaningful common noun and you insist it is a meaningless proper name. Who should we believe, the god or you?
Peace,
Ayman
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/Al-Muslimeen means "the MUSLIMS", people who follow the religion of ISLAM.
This is meaningless. Proper names are meaningless and don't convey truth. Just because a guy is named Karim doesn't mean he is generous and this is why they are not translated. On the other hand, if you traslate karim to generous and say someone is generous then this conveys meaning. This is why unlike you, the god translated the peacemakers into Arabic from the ancient language that Abraham spoke. This is a basic concept and it is not my problem that you don't understand the difference between common nouns and proper names.
Peace,
Ayman
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My main point in emphasizing on NOT to change the proper names, especially the religious ones, to one's impulsive and egoistical likings, is that there are ideological, historical, and cultural values that they carry with them. Religious proper names are an integral part of the beliefs and religious values of billions of people around the world and over the centuries have earned their own global recognition.
985
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God can be a translation of Allah
It is not a good translation because the word "allah" has the Arabic definite article while god doesn't.
However, Peacemaker is a poor translation for Muslim because it denotes a go between
and not one who has surrendered.One who surendered is "mustaslim" and surrender is "istislam". It is a completely different Masdar and this is well known to anyone who knows Arabic.
Agreed, to have my name begin with caps and not God's is indeed offensive and blasphemous.
There are no caps in Arabic or in English speech for that matter ). So you are saying that you are being blasphemous when you write in Arabic or speak in English. In fact, much like Arabic, English speakers use CONTEXT to determine if something is a common noun or proper name due to the absence of capitalization in speech. When you capitalize or not translate the common noun "the god"/"allah" you are essentially saying that it is a meaningless label.
Hey! we are in the last ten days of Ramadan, Insha'Allah congrats are on the way!
I see that you take the word "ramadan" (scorching heat) to be another meaningless word that you imply the god haphazardly chose.
Peace,
Ayman
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This is meaningless. Proper names are meaningless and don't convey truth. Just because a guy is named Karim doesn't mean he is generous and this is why they are not translated. On the other hand, if you traslate karim to generous and say someone is generous then this conveys meaning. This is why unlike you, the god translated the peacemakers into Arabic from the ancient language that Abraham spoke. This is a basic concept and it is not my problem that you don't understand the difference between common nouns and proper names.
Peace,
Ayman
The word alMuslimeen/, derives from the root word "Sa-La-Ma", which many other related words, carrying different meanings, derive from it. In this case the word happens to be the proper name for the people who foloww the religion of "Islam". The English EQUIVALENT of the proper name here is "the Muslims" with capital M. Here we are talking about the religious identity of billions of people in a global scale, called the Muslims. It is just like when we identify the followers of the Christianity as Christians and followers of Judaism as Jews. Here the meaning of the word is NOT of the essence at all, and that is what I'm trying to get across to those who are ignoring this essential fact.
To make it easier to understand; if someone is curious about my faith, I identify myself as a "Muslim". I'm not going to tell them i am a "peace maker" or a "submitter". Here the word "Muslim" clicks right away, because it is globally recognized.
Peace,
Khalil