Was Satan avoiding shirk when he refused to prostrate towards Adam?

Jafar

Unless, being all-knowing, this was an intentional aim/mechanism in Allah's plan for our lives on this Earth - but then, if Iblis is serving such a critical role, why is Iblis going to be punished?

Interesting thought, however have you thought that perhaps 'being put into flame/fire' is not a punishment for a being made out of fire?
Thus it's not a punishment at all?
It's like throwing a fish into the ocean.. which is their natural habitat..

Mazhar

Interesting thought, however have you thought that perhaps 'being put into flame/fire' is not a punishment for a being made out of fire?
Thus it's not a punishment at all?
It's like throwing a fish into the ocean.. which is their natural habitat..

And if it were Dead Sea?

357

Salaam everyone!

I hope you are all doing well.

I have had this question concerning a story in the Qur'an for a while now and I would be very interested to see what every one here has to say about it.

These are the verses of the story I am referring to

" "
"And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees (Satan). He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers." 234

" "
"And We have certainly created you, , and given you form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated." 711

" "
" said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."" 712

" "
"Except Iblees, he refused to be with those who prostrated." 1531

" "
" said, O Iblees, what is with you that you are not with those who prostrate?" 1532

" "
"He said, "Never would I prostrate to a human whom You created out of clay from an altered black mud."" 1533

" "
"And when We said to the angles, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He said, "Should I prostrate to one You created from clay?"" 1761

" "
"(Allah) said "O Iblis (Satan)! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I have created with Both My Hands. Are you too proud (to fall prostrate to Adam) or are you one of the high exalted?"" 3875

Ok so you all probably already know this story. My questions regarding this story are as follows

Why would Allah order any of his servants, including the angels, to prostrate towards anything but Allah?
Is Iblis then avoiding shirk by not prostrating towards Adam?
It says it is because he was arrogant not because he was trying to avoid shirk. So does it have something to do with customs of the region at that time? Remember in the bible people prostrated themselves before other people all the time, kings, priests, prophets, holy men... is this shirk?
Would you prostrate yourself to another human being?

I am very interested to see what everyone thinks about this story and these questions.

Thank you in advance for you time and patience in go over this material.

Peace!

He was obeying someone other then Allah , and, so he was comitting shirk.......was he not? peace

kylixguru

And if it were Dead Sea?

Excellent distinction!

You can be spiritually born to Allah or Lucifer.
They each provide a "fire", but one leads to "life" and the other leads to the "second death".
Everyone ends up in eternal burnings, the question is which baptism of fire you hold to.

Mazhar

Excellent distinction!

You can be spiritually born to Allah or Lucifer.
They each provide a "fire", but one leads to "life" and the other leads to the "second death".
Everyone ends up in eternal burnings, the question is which baptism of fire you hold to.

Allah the Exalted provides "Noor" signifying the visible light which is the source and is the sustainer of life. Lucifer invites for fire to "enjoy" to have company.

GODsubmitter

Interesting thought, however have you thought that perhaps 'being put into flame/fire' is not a punishment for a being made out of fire?
Thus it's not a punishment at all?
It's like throwing a fish into the ocean.. which is their natural habitat..

I agree very much with your remark @Jafar!

I was also thinking (must say that this idea is not so original) that, since angels cannot disobey God since they do not have a (free)will of their own, perhaps Iblees was not an angel at all? !
He was able to make a choice! !!!

And he refused to bow down to a human creature-man, because he is utterly devoted only to God?

hmm

kylixguru

I agree that angelic beings have established an agreement to be true and faithful to the will of Allah and therein have yielded their agency to Allah. However, this does not preclude them from making the choice to go back on their agreement and be disobedient. This is in fact what the demonic hosts have done and is why they were banished from their former standings.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

I am sure angels have free will. Otherwise the point in them to prostrate to Adam would be completely unnecessary. I think we conjecture too much. God most likely commanded them to prostrate to expose possible hypocrites and as you can see Eblees was one of them. He was arrogant and would not obey God's test of His ethereal servants. Shaytaan is with no doubt a term for those who fight God, you even use this for all those who follow him, a faction. Shaytaan is an evil spirit(s) and may be an integral part of our minds. Musa said, when he has killed a man "this is the work of Shaytaan".

And it is obvious that Shaytaan is Eblees; it is he who promised to mislead the majority of people. He is the leader of the Shaytaan faction. We cannot see him or his servants just as we cannot see God, but we can see his works. As a Jinn soul he is made of the same material as angels, ie fire, so the probability that he is of this origin is very high.

All is part of God's grand plan of which we have no knowledge, or some may be blessed with partial knowledge. God knew Eblees was not going to prostrate obviously since he is all-knowing. Same as then, God is currently working on exposing the human hypocrites here on Earth. We have enough Knowledge and all that to be Believers, but some people still refuse to believe or believe without associating partners with Him.

Where does this talk about free will come from anyway?

To answer the question of the thread no one is committing shirk if God gives a direct command to do something and you obey, even if it nornally would seem like obvious shirk.

Prostration itself is a kind of very humble way of paying homage and not necessarily associated with religion. Time has made this act into only a religious thing, but in the past people prostrated from right to left not because they worshiped someone but to humble themselves to them. Shaytaan refused to humble himself, so that is where it all began. He rioted because he did not desire to humble himself to an inferior creature as humans seem to be inferior to the flame-based creatures of God's realm. God knows that this weak creature has some clones of the souls which are worthy and those are the one He is testing in this world.

On a side-note, the use of sujud in Quran may be rather a word for to humble yourself than the precise definition of prostrate.

God bless you

rebeccarossa

well, if God spoke directly to me and ordered me to do something, I would do it. He is God, after all. Iblis should have obeyed. It's not a question of shirk - but disobedience and arrogance.

Wilson

Peace,

From 326, it can be seen that control is given to anyone and taken away from anyone by The God at any time. 326 makes it clear that being one from the "malaika"/controllers is a status, not some kind of mythical creature flying around in a white robe with a halo over the head. Thus, the controllers can be any creature that The God gave this status to. As long as they obey The God, they remain in that status. If one of them chooses to disobey The God, as Iblis/"one who is stuck" did, then The God takes from him this status and he is no longer a controller.

Source How Did It Come To This? (Part 2)

To understand SJD in 234 read 258.

And when We said to the angels "sjudu" to Adam "fasajadu", but Iblis (did it not). He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.
And when We said Enter this city, then eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish, and enter the gate "sujjadan", and say, forgiveness. We will forgive you your wrongs and give more to those who do good (to others).

Abdelilah

Wilson

Peace,

From 326, it can be seen that control is given to anyone and taken away from anyone by The God at any time. 326 makes it clear that being one from the "malaika"/controllers is a status, not some kind of mythical creature flying around in a white robe with a halo over the head. Thus, the controllers can be any creature that The God gave this status to. As long as they obey The God, they remain in that status. If one of them chooses to disobey The God, as Iblis/"one who is stuck" did, then The God takes from him this status and he is no longer a controller.

Source How Did It Come To This? (Part 2)

To understand SJD in 234 read 258.

And when We said to the controllers "sjudu" to Adam "fasajadu", but Iblis (did it not). He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.
And when We said Enter this city, then eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish, and enter the gate "sujjadan", and say, forgiveness. We will forgive you your wrongs and give more to those who do good (to others).

Abdelilah

Bender

Peace,

From 326, it can be seen that control is given to anyone and taken away from anyone by The God at any time. 326 makes it clear that being one from the "malaika"/controllers is a status, not some kind of mythical creature flying around in a white robe with a halo over the head. Thus, the controllers can be any creature that The God gave this status to. As long as they obey The God, they remain in that status. If one of them chooses to disobey The God, as Iblis/"one who is stuck" did, then The God takes from him this status and he is no longer a controller.

Source How Did It Come To This? (Part 2)

To understand SJD in 234 read 258.

And when We said to the controllers "sjudu" to Adam "fasajadu", but Iblis (did it not). He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.
And when We said Enter this city, then eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish, and enter the gate "sujjadan", and say, forgiveness. We will forgive you your wrongs and give more to those who do good (to others).

Abdelilah

Salaamun alayka bro,

I heard you the first time already

I think the biggest problem (at least for me) is to get rid of our preprogrammed image of malaika
http//3.bp.blogspot.com/-HJJHuoHHK_s/TsUcXujKFoI/AAAAAAAAAKI/mibHq8V8EiA/s1600/Angel1.jpg

And our image of iblies
http//jokesfeestartikelen.nl/images/1015D%20Kostuum%20set%20Duivel.jpg

As long as we see them like this we will not understand a thing.

Salaam,
Bender

hawk99

I think the biggest problem (at least for me) is to get rid of our preprogrammed image
of iblies
http//jokesfeestartikelen.nl/images/1015D%20Kostuum%20set%20Duivel.jpg

Nice shoes!

Bigmo