Leaving the Quran alone ideology

hicham9

It is because you have no understanding of 'ahaadiyth (hadiyths) like almost all those who think they follow the 'ahaadiyth. If you wish I shall show you some examples and you will be astounded.

God will not punish those who disuse apocryphal texts (456), but those who desert His Glorious Scripture (2530).

For a Muslim, the Qur'an is the only "authentic" source of "judgment" there is. It is the book whereof there is no doubt/uncertainty (22, 482), it is the only source of guidance to be followed (238, 3138, 3941, 4511, ...) Further, according to the Qur'an, God "completed" our religion for us during the lifetime of Muhammad (53) meaning, in the 7th century; thus there is no need for these (10th century) fabrications of urs!

If you think otherwise, then please spare us the condescension, logical fallacies, and pretences., and simply contribute a counter-argument that gives a reasonable response with supporting evidence. I recommend using Qur'anic verses, and primary sources - i.e. provide some (complete, or fragmented) hadith manuscripts from the 1st century AH; if ye have indeed, properly studied the 6 persian hadith corpus (as you claim).

SLM

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD2ireTt0HE

diamantinehoneybunch

Salaam,

I like searching and reading old posts.

This is what I found from a thread

& estaghferallah

the messenger of Allah (Mohammad) had sexual intercourse with Mariyyah (his Coptic slave) in the house of Hafsah. When the messenger came out of the house, Hafsa was sitting at the gate (behind the locked door). She told the prophet, O Messenger of Allah, do you do this in my house and during my turn? The messenger said, control yourself and let me go because I make her haram to me.

Tabaqat 8223

He was a child-killer

??two singing-girls Fartana and her friend who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he (Mohammad) ordered that they should be killed??

Ibn Ishaq 819

He attempted suicide on numerous occasions

But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (Mohammad) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before.

Sahih Bukhari 29111

He questioned his own sanity

"O Khadija, I (Mohammad) see light and hear sounds and I fear I am mad"

Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir 225

He beat his wives

(Aisha) I said Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He (Mohammad) said Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said Yes. He (Mohammad) struck me on the chest which caused me pain.

Sahih Muslim 22127

The Prophet (Mohammad) said A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.

Abu Dawud 112142

He considered women to be genetically inferior

The Prophet (Mohammad) said, "Isn't the witness of a women equal to half that of a man?" The women said "yes". He said "This is because of the deficiency of the women's mind."

Sahih Bukhari 3826502

He saw women as nothing more than sexual objects

Mohammad said "if a man invites his wife to sleep with him an she refuses to come to him, then angels send their curses on her till morning."

Sahih Bukhari 712193

He was a paedophile

A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported Allah's Apostle (Mohammad) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Muslim 83310
nope nope nope nope lA3NATULLAHE ELLAL KAZEBEEN elektro

Regarding Aisha's age when she was married to Muhammad, many historical sources, including hadiths contradict the hadiths that say Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of 6 and lost her virginity when she was 9.

I am sick of people saying "when a girl has reached puberty, she is eligible to be married"

Have you ever heard of the youngest mother in the world, Lena Medina, a Peruvian girl who gave birth to a child when she was 5 years, 7 months and 17 days old?

http//www.ridiculousfacts.com/worlds-youngest-mother/

Have you ever heard of Precocious Puberty?
It is a puberty that occurs at unusually very young age such as 3 years old. Do you think 3-year-olds who have reached puberty are eligible to get married?

There are many hadiths that you have to learn. Like I said before, hadiths are not consistent and contradict themselves.

Regards,
Yuliana

diamantinehoneybunch

It is because you have no understanding of 'ahaadiyth (hadiyths) like almost all those who think they follow the 'ahaadiyth. If you wish I shall show you some examples and you will be astounded. Nevertheless your observations are perfectly correct. Just continue to learn. It could be that what you understand now is not what you will understand tomorrow.

So I have to accept hadiths that say women, dogs and donkeys annul prayer? So I have to accept the hadiths that say women who don't fulfill their husbands love-making desire in bed will be cursed by angels till morning? So I have to accept hadiths that say black dogs must be killed because they are devils? So I have to accept hadiths that command people to burn down houses of people who don't attend prayers at mosque?

noshirk

salaam+ noshirk

I do not declare you in anyway that you are a kaafir as you have about said yourself, "I am kafir for all hadiths while accepting All Ayats of Allah."

Give me a reason why I should find kufr in your statement, " I believe that Bukhari and Muslims are liars and i don't believe in their books" when I have never mentioned it to you or for that matter any other person before you. I never go around telling people they are unbelievers no matter how lost they are. My point is I take them to the knowledge and then they overthrow their own nonsense if it is nonsense they believe in. Nor am I aggressive to any if they are not much aggressive or make extreme insulting statements about others.

As for your next statement,

"Explain to me why i have to take "yours "others Arbabs as my teachers to be on a right path." I do not know about others but I would ask you this one question
"Do you have knowledge of the Book (al-kitaab)?"
If you do not you would have virtually no knowledge about the information contained in the Reading/Recitation (al-qur'aan). Then you shall first have to learn or otherwise you will be on the same road of destruction as the very people you claim are liars. Challenge me on this in a nice way and I will show you how astray you possibly are or you show me how astray I am. Surely this should not be something hard.

salaam al-amiyr

forgive me the following agressivity.

i will make to you a clear accusation
"You are a moshrik". That is a mixer of words of Gods with words from other than God.
You are rejecting the "One Rabb/teacher claim" and need other arbabs.

Let see how you can defend yourself and sorry again.

Now i will respond to your question
"Do you have knowledge of the Book (al-kitaab)?"

Response is no.
But also neither Muhammad and other "cheikhs" has that understanding.

37 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.

No one can explain Quran except God. He explain it as he wants to who comes to him sincerely.
He is the only Rabb.
I am his pupil and he is my only teacher.
I read what other pupils write and understood and i write what i understood. It is only exchanges between pupils at same level.

2107 Did you not know that to God is the kingship of the heavens and the earth, and that you do not have besides God any guardian or supporter?
2108 Or do you want to ask your messenger as Moses was asked before? Whoever replaces belief with rejection, he has indeed strayed from the right path.

2-108 is clear. Searching truth of God in alleaged sayings of Muhammad is rejection, even if those hadiths were true.

Peace

al-amiyr

salaam al-amiyr

forgive me the following agressivity.

i will make to you a clear accusation
"You are a moshrik". That is a mixer of words of Gods with words from other than God.
You are rejecting the "One Rabb/teacher claim" and need other arbabs.

Let see how you can defend yourself and sorry again.

Is it not strange that the descendant of mushrik fore fathers now accuse a descendant of the fathers of monotheism as being mushrik.

You ask me how I can defend myself.
Here are the famous words of my 41st ancestor imaam "aliy ibn al-husayn zaynul "aabidiyn grandson of the prophet(S+) muhammad (S+) the messenger of the Lord of The Worlds. This is but a small section of writing of a long history of men, many of whom were killed, beheaded, and crucified by the mushriks for teaching the world the religion of ALLAAH

1 Praise belongs to ALLAAH,
the First, without a first before Him,
the Last, without a last behind Him.
2 Beholders' eyes fall short of seeing Him,
describers' imaginations are not able to depict Him.
3 He originated the creatures through His power with an origination,
He devised them in accordance with His will with a devising.
4 Then He made them walk on the path of His desire,
He sent them out on the way of His love.
They cannot keep back
from that to which He has sent them forward,
nor can they go forward
to that from which He has kept them back.
5 He assigned from His provision to each of their spirits
a nourishment known and apportioned.
No decreaser decreases those whom He increases,
no increaser increases those of them whom He decreases.
6 Then for each spirit He strikes a fixed term in life,
for each He sets up a determined end;
he walks toward it through the days of his span,
he overtakes it through the years of his time.
Then, when he takes his final step
and embraces the reckoning of his span,
God seizes him to the abundant reward
or the feared punishment
to which He has called him,
That He may repay those who do evil for what they have done
and repay those who do good with goodness,27
7 as justice from Him
(holy are His names,
and manifest His boons).
He shall not be questioned as to what He does,
but they shall be questioned.28
8 Praise belongs to ALLAAH, for,
had He withheld from His servants the knowledge to praise Him
for the uninterrupted kindnesses
with which He has tried them29
and the manifest favours
which He has lavished upon them,
they would have moved about in His kindnesses
without praising Him,
and spread themselves out in His provision
without thanking Him.
9 Had such been the case,
they would have left the bounds of humanity
for that of beastliness
and become as He has described in the firm text of His Book
They are but as the cattlenay, but they are further astray from the way!.30
10 Praise belongs to ALLAAH, for
the true knowledge of Himself He has given to us,
the thanksgiving He has inspired us to offer Him,
the doors to knowing His Lordship He has opened for us,
the sincerity towards Him in professing His Unity
to which He has led us,
and the deviation and doubt in His Command
from which He has turned us aside;
11 a praise through
which we may be given long life
among those of His creatures who praise Him,
and overtake those who have gone ahead
toward His good pleasure and pardon;
12 a praise through which
He will illuminate for us the shadows of the interworld,31
ease for us the path of the Resurrection,
and raise up our stations
at the standing places of the Witnesses32
on the day when every soul will be repaid
for what it has earned -
they shall not be wronged;33
the day a master shall avail nothing a client,
and they shall not be helped;34
13 a praise
which will rise up from us to the highest of the 'Illiyun35
in a book inscribed,
witnessed by those brought nigh,36
14 a praise whereby
our eyes may be at rest when sight is dazzled,37
our faces whitened when skins are blackened,38
15 a praise through which
we may be released from God's painful Fire
and enter ALLAAH's generous neighbourhood,
16 a praise by which
we may jostle the angels brought nigh
and join the prophets, the envoys,
in a House of Permanence that does not remove,
the Place of His Generosity that does not change.
17 Praise belongs to ALLAAH,
who chose for us the good qualities of creation,
granted us the agreeable things of provision,
18 and appointed for us excellence
through domination over all creation;
every one of His creatures submits to us
through His power
and comes to obey us
through His might.39
19 Praise belongs to ALLAAH,
who locked for us the gate of need
except toward Him.
So how can we praise Him?
When can we thank Him?
Indeed, when?
20 Praise belongs to ALLAAH,
who placed within us the organs of expansion,
assigned for us the agents of contraction,
gave us to enjoy the spirits of life,
fixed within us the limbs of works,
nourished us with the agreeable things of provision,
freed us from need through His bounty,
and gave us possessions through His kindness.
21 Then He commanded us that He might test our obedience
and prohibited us that He might try our thanksgiving.
So we turned against the path of His commandments
and mounted the backs of His warnings.
Yet He hurried us not to His punishment,
nor hastened us on to His vengeance.
No, He went slowly with us through His mercy,
in generosity,
and awaited our return through His clemency,
in mildness.
22 Praise belongs to ALLAAH,
who showed us the way to repentance,
which we would not have won save through His bounty.
Had we nothing to count as His bounty but this,
His trial of us would have been good,
His beneficence toward us great,
His bounty upon us immense.
23 For such was not His wont in repentance
with those who went before us.40
He has lifted up from us
what we have not the strength to bear,41
charged us only to our capacity,42
imposed upon us nothing but ease,
and left none of us with an argument or excuse.
24 So the perisher among us is he who perishes in spite of Him
and the felicitous among us he who beseeches Him.
25 And praise belongs to ALLAAH
with all the praises of
His angels closest to Him,
His creatures most noble in His eyes,
and His praisers most pleasing to Him;
26 a praise that may surpass other praises
as our Lord surpasses all His creatures.
27 Then to Him belongs praise,
in place of His every favour upon us
and upon all His servants, past and still remaining,
to the number of all things His knowledge encompasses,
and in place of each of His favours,
their number doubling and redoubling always and forever,
to the Day of Resurrection;
28 a praise whose bound has no utmost end,
whose number has no reckoning,
whose limit cannot be reached,
whose period cannot be cut off;
29 a praise which will become
a link to His obedience and pardon,
a tie to His good pleasure,
a means to His forgiveness,
a path to His Garden,
a protector against His vengeance,
a security against His wrath,
an aid to obeying Him,
a barrier against disobeying Him,
a help in fulfilling His right and His duties;
30 a praise that will make us felicitous
among His felicitous friends,
and bring us into the ranks
of those martyred by the swords of His enemies.
He is a Friend, Praiseworthy!

...
your salaam returned

diamantinehoneybunch

Salaam al-amiyr,

Can you also answer questions from hicham9 and me?

You come here only to show, brag and boast about your awesome scholars that were your forefathers.

Since when did we, Qur'an alone muslims / true muslims / true monotheists of creed of Abraham support the mushriks who killed the true muslims who spread true islam?

What about those Saudi clerics who issued fatwas ruling women to suckle non-mahrams to become their mahrams just because women must be isolated from men?
brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall

Regards,
Yuliana

al-amiyr

Salaam al-amiyr,

Can you also answer questions from hicham9 and me?

You come here only to show, brag and boast about your awesome scholars that were your forefathers.

Since when did we, Qur'an alone muslims / true muslims / true monotheists of creed of Abraham support the mushriks who killed the true muslims who spread true islam?

What about those Saudi clerics who issued fatwas ruling women to suckle non-mahrams to become their mahrams just because women must be isolated from men?
brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall

Regards,
Yuliana

salaam Yuliana

I like your new flag. I will answer your questions during the course of the day inshaa ALLAAH. Do not take anything personal. I take nothing personal. I enjoy debate no matter how heated as long as there is tolerance. In the end of the day we will all learn many things. That is my view.

G_Omar

God will not punish those who disuse apocryphal texts (456), but those who desert His Glorious Scripture (2530).

For a Muslim, the Qur'an is the only "authentic" source of "judgment" there is. It is the book whereof there is no doubt/uncertainty (22, 482), it is the only source of guidance to be followed (238, 3138, 3941, 4511, ...) Further, according to the Qur'an, God "completed" our religion for us during the lifetime of Muhammad (53) meaning, in the 7th century; thus there is no need for these (10th century) fabrications of urs!

Salaam Hicham
Is it possible that you, like most of us, have insufficient knowledge? Remember some are guided by the Qur'aan and others are misguided, so it's possible to be misguided by it. wow Don't let's assume we have the truth, as so many fractious sects do. Isn't the right approach to humbly ask Allaah pr to lead us ever nearer to the right path? peace

Man_of_Faith

Fare thee well,

Honestly, I have a feeling that the grandson of Muhammad was one among the righteous descendants of Muhammad. At least as it seems during my research of the Shia branch of religion.

The ones who seem to have killed Truthful muslims were following the caliphate which there were war over ever since Muhammad died

Without associating partners with God I must say I believe in blessed people who have more Knowledge and Wisdom than others. The common problem is that people often idolize these people, be it Messengers or righteous Imams or just a fellow servant of God. We are all equal (in judgment) but some people may have excelled more than others. And we are only blessed with these things because of God; we should praise Him for everything.

The above statement is supported if you read and consider what it written in Quran. It is easy to see that some people excel more than others even if God is far above everyone. And we excel due to God's blessings and provisions as He deems us worthy.

God bless you

noshirk

Without associating partners with God I must say I believe in blessed people who have more Knowledge and Wisdom than others.

Salaam man of faith

i agree on this.
However the question is how you can measure the knowledge of who you think has more knowledge than you. In a someway, you have to put faith on him and he can astray you since you cannot be sure that he will go to heaven.

Following "who seems to have more knowledge than you" is following other arbabs than god.

On the other hand,
in quran, it is said for example that people who were with noah on the ark are moominous and probably most of them will go to heaven. Those people had neither quran nor bullshit books of hadiths in their hands.
My question is simple From wich level "of science" more than those you think you will allowed te enter paradise. What is the minimal level of science/knowledge needed to enter paradise ?

Before reading what he said, and be sure that he said that, how to be sure that ""aliy ibn al-husayn zaynul "aabidiyn grandson of the prophet(S+) muhammad (S+) the messenger of the Lord of The Worlds." will go to heaven ?
Is there not a child of Noah mentionned in quran who would go to hell ?

what could have said zaynul blablabla is not part of my deen.

Peace

faruk

Is it not strange that the descendant of mushrik fore fathers now accuse a descendant of the fathers of monotheism as being mushrik.

You ask me how I can defend myself.
Here are the famous words of my 41st ancestor imaam "aliy ibn al-husayn zaynul "aabidiyn grandson of the prophet(S+) muhammad (S+) the messenger of the Lord of The Worlds. This is but a small section of writing of a long history of men, many of whom were killed, beheaded, and crucified by the mushriks for teaching the world the religion of ALLAAH

Salam, Will you please answer directly with logic and proof and stop this hearsay stories of mushrik fore fathers , descendant of the fathers of monotheism and 41st ancestor imaam "aliy ibn al-husayn zaynul "aabidiyn. Really there is no historical proof of of a person named "aliy ibn al-husayn zaynul "aabidiyn grandson of the prophet(S+) muhammad (S+) the messenger of the Lord of The Worlds other than persian myths stated by so called persian historians and hathis tellers.

raspberry_red

Salaam man of faith

i agree on this.
However the question is how you can measure the knowledge of who you think has more knowledge than you. In a someway, you have to put faith on him and he can astray you since you cannot be sure that he will go to heaven.

Following "who seems to have more knowledge than you" is following other arbabs than god.

On the other hand,
in quran, it is said for example that people who were with noah on the ark are moominous and probably most of them will go to heaven. Those people had neither quran nor bullshit books of hadiths in their hands.
My question is simple From wich level "of science" more than those you think you will allowed te enter paradise. What is the minimal level of science/knowledge needed to enter paradise ?

Before reading what he said, and be sure that he said that, how to be sure that ""aliy ibn al-husayn zaynul "aabidiyn grandson of the prophet(S+) muhammad (S+) the messenger of the Lord of The Worlds." will go to heaven ?
Is there not a child of Noah mentionned in quran who would go to hell ?

what could have said zaynul blablabla is not part of my deen.

Peace

I just came across your post above where you wrote

"Following "who seems to have more knowledge than you" is following other arbabs than god."

My question is then, how do we learn the knowledge that we don't know?

If we don't know some knowledge, then we need a teacher knowledgeable in this knowledge to teach us, so we can learn what we don't know, right?
Or, we can learn directly from God, eventually, this could be possible, but this way of learning looks extremely seldom (prophets) isn't it?

We know that every person who wants to learn the Scriptures and islaam is not a prophet.
We know that to learn some knowledge that wo don't possess, we need one teacher who knows what we don't know.
So, if we shouldn't learn (or "follow&quot the knowledge of someone who has more knowledge than us, how do we learn the knowledge of God that we don't know then?

Man_of_Faith

Fare thee well noshirk,

I agree if you mean that it is dangerous to rely on people you think are blessed people considered how many are astray. This was not entirely what I propose though. I would not obey even an influential person highly respected if he tells me something which goes against the guidelines of the Quran. It is not a matter of following any teachings of people and if there, hypothetically, would come another Messenger he would advocate the same laws as have been there all the time. So it would be relatively easy to see the Truth in that. No righteous Imam or whatever you like to call them would say anything other than what you can find in Quran.

You have told many good things by your effort to interpret the Quran and in ways you are blessed like one of he wise ones of old. So if we follow you in logical and reasonable proportions this is only right. This could by some be equal to Imam status.

But like we agree as I know your standing, only words which follow the guidelines of Quran should be used. There is no need right now, unless God would (low probability) issue another scripture, to say more than is written in Quran. Unless more teachings came down from God we need only what is there, perhaps elaborated, but nothing added.

No need for extra books, no hearsay (hadith), not even the Bible as it is unreliable for more than some inspiration on how to be and behave.

As long as we can solve all twisted word connotations caused by a millennium of corrupt clergymen who decided words mean this or that.

God bless you

G_Omar

No righteous Imam or whatever you like to call them would say anything other than what you can find in Quran.

Salaam Man of Faith
Have you ever considered why we call Jews and Christians 'People of the Book'? Which book does the name refer to? What if there is a book from Allaah, other than the Qur'aan that contains His eternal truth, and what if the Qur'aan is the explanation of that Book, called al kitaab maknuwn (the hidden book).
Would learning about such a book, that contains all the knowledge in the world, be of interest to you, or would you discard it because it contains statements not found in the Qur'aan? Would that not be a foolish thing to do? peace

muslims

Salam

I believe to the extent of any inconsistency, this is a clear prohibition against hadith...

Say, "Bring forward your witnesses who will testify that Allah has prohibited this."
And if they TESTIFY (including by way of hadith)
DO NOT testify with them
And DO NOT follow the desires of those who deny Our verses
and those who do not believe in the Hereafter
while they EQUATE with their Lord. (<a href="http//quran.com/6/150">6150</a&gt

and DO NOT be of those who associate others with Allah
of those who have divided their religion and become sects
every faction rejoicing in what it has. (<a href="http//quran.com/4/40">3031-32</a&gt

No one disputes concerning the signs of Allah except those who disbelieve (<a href="http//quran.com/4/40">404</a&gt
(actual pillar of Islam > obedience vs disobedience - "DO NOT&quot

and the condition of becoming muslim scholars..

And We appointed, from among them leaders
giving guidance under Our command

SO LONG (the condition)

as they persevered with patience
and continued to have faith in Our Signs (obedience) (<a href="http//quran.com/4/40">3224</a&gt

Aamer

The long winded prayer that Al amiyr posted mentions the name of Allah 15 times. And the name of Muhammad 16 times. Just an observation. Carry on.

G_Omar

The long winded prayer that Al amiyr posted mentions the name of Allah 15 times. And the name of Muhammad 16 times. Just an observation. Carry on.

Qur'aan alone, and I still count myself as one of you, if more open to authentic hadiyths after some tutoring from al-amiyr, is supposedly about returning to original and authentic Islam. In truth though, I must say the sectarian spirit here is depressingly vivid.
Your observations Ameer, apparently lead you to conclude there are a Million trees but no forest, if you follow my drift. No?? Sad!! hypno

muslims