What is Islam?
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deen in classical arab also reffering to religon.So deen al Islam is still religion/system of Islam.But I
Religion / Sect / Cult is man made ideas..
God's system is called Universal Law / Law Of Nature which no one can breakDien is attitude/opinion/judgement,
Dienul islam = attitude of peace/acceptance/submission
Yawmil Al-Dien = Day Of JudgementMy reference is ancient semitic language.
I might suggest that you read the Hebrew Tanakh and seek out the word Din/Diyn/Dien (ן yourselves, and it really cognates well with Attitude/Judgement/Opinion (towards something).Back to the topic, you can find many recommendation for "attitude of peace/acceptance/submission" as the best attitude in life. From ancient books (tanakh,gospel,tao the ching, Sidharta's teaching, Gita, Quran etc..) up to today's self-help books .
"Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. your kingdom come,
Let your will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven."
-- JesusAn example on how Jesus recommend the attitude of islam as recorded in the gospel.
understand one point from your explanation.
You said if we want pass the test then we must join HONEST (how poor university is this -[).It's same like ayah 385 if we want get salvation then we must became Muslim.Correct, thus can you see the similitude?
How ridiculous it is when one said "In order to earn Heaven you must join Islam/Catholicism/Judaism/Orthodoxism << your favorite religion name here >>". -
Peace Muslim
It is just a simple chart for easy understanding, and I'm focusing on the "iqtidaq" to disobey individually or as a sect (<a href="http//quran.com/30/30-32">3030-32</a>, rather than the act of disobedience (<a href="http//quran.com/4/17-18">417-18</a> and <a href="http//quran.com/2/159-160">2159-160</a> cf. <a href="http//quran.com/9/80">980</a>. You can correct the chart if you like.
There is good verses about sectarian 910-9, 4213-14
Your chart is well said and you define well term "muslim" and levels of believer )But I want to ask "What is the meaning of "Iblees Allah Alone"??
DIN?this word has been used in various contexts, among them being ascendancy, sovereignty, management, conduct of affairs, ruling power, mastership, ownership, exercise of power, code of law, constitution, law of requital, an order. The Quran has described Islam as Ad-Din, which is generally translated as religion. However, in the light of the above meanings, it should be clear that this is not only incorrect, but distorts and negates the very meaning of din. Islam is not a religion (madhab), and it has never been described as one in the Quran. Islam is a way of life, a system, a code of law. In the external universe Islam signifies the Divine Order that governs life and the movement of the entire universe. The whole purpose of the Quran is to establish a universal order based on the Divinely ordained values of life. This is ad-din; Islam A Challenge to Religion
Thanks for the link.I already read some parts of G A Parwes's articles.Deen simply means system but it has some universal and wide intepretation
Religion / Sect / Cult is man made ideas..
God's system is called Universal Law / Law Of Nature which no one can breakIn this thread we talking about Islam and we're not talking about God but Allah.
If you confuse between Allah and God, read MINE INTEPRETATION .If you disagree or want some corrent just reply in that thread.Allah's authantic deen is Islam (336), thus Islam is the name of our system.
Peace Jafar
quote author=Jafar link=topic=9605723.msg335363#msg335363 date=1377199383]
Religion / Sect / Cult is man made ideas..
God's system is called Universal Law / Law Of Nature which no one can breakIn this thread we talking about Islam and we're not talking about God but Allah.
If you confuse between Allah and God, read MINE INTEPRETATION .If you disagree or want some corrent just reply in that thread.Allah's authantic deen is Islam (336), thus Islam is the name of our system.
My reference is ancient semitic language.
I might suggest that you read the Hebrew Tanakh and seek out the word Din/Diyn/Dien (ן yourselves, and it really cognates well with Attitude/Judgement/Opinion (towards something).Back to the topic, you can find many recommendation for "attitude of peace/acceptance/submission" as the best attitude in life. From ancient books (tanakh,gospel,tao the ching, Sidharta's teaching, Gita, Quran etc..) up to today's self-help books .
Your actions is similiar with GODSubmitter, tauhid101, youssef434 etc.
Yeah sometime I want to learn the Hebrew language, thus I want search correlation between Hebrew-Arabic, Tanakh-Quran.Salam/Peace
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Fare thee well,
Even if I do not use the word Allah for God I refer to the same being. Islam I use because there is no feasible option in terms of translation because the exact word does not seem to exist in English and Muslim for the same reason. But I use (true) Believer instead of Mu'meen as I consider that the meaning.
Arabic is not a holy language in that regard.
And I use system for deen, which is pretty equal in meaning. And when I talk about Islam I say (God's) religion (which is Islam as system).
God bless you
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But I want to ask "What is the meaning of "Iblees Allah Alone"??
Salam Earthdom.
Thank you for the verses.
Facts 1 Iblees did not prostrate to Adam, and neither the Qur'an tells Iblees prostrate to others.
Without Allah's command, it would be grave disobedience to prostrate to any other than Allah.Facts 2 The Qur'an claims that all living creatures are prostrating to Allah
And to Allah prostrates
whatever is in the heavens
and whatever is in the earth
of every beast
and the Angels
and they do not wax proud
(<a href="http//quran.com/16/49">1649</a>Therefore, Iblees are prostrating to Allah.
Issue Now from the facts of the Qur'an,
Can you prove Iblees do not prostrate to Allah?
Peace.
p/s You can also refer to the <a href="http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/ICR/ICR_20.htm">end part of his conclusion</a>, where he lists out the differences between "Madhhab" (religion) and "Din", and Allah don't accept any religion, never (<a href="http//quran.com/3/85">385</a> ... and thus, including any reference Islam as a religion. If they claimed Islam is almost equal to religion, then it is not a religion. Simply because almost equal is not equal.
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Salam muslims.
(<a href="http//quran.com/16/49">1649</a>
Can you prove Iblees do not prostrate to Allah?
This verse is a allegorical one.Some Quran verses contains allegorical sentence such like "kill yourself" (254,456), "eat the properties" (218.
The fact is not all creatures especially humans want sujud to Allah.
sujud/sajada not simply means prostation n it's the meaning lowly, humble, submissive, worship, adore, prostrate, make obeisance, lower/bend oneself down towards the ground, lower the head, to salute/honour/magnify, to pay respect, to stand up, to look continuedly and tranquily.
So this means we cannot judge so easily if Ibees sujud to Allah.
p/s You can also refer to the end part of his conclusion, where he lists out the differences between "Madhhab" (religion) and "Din", and Allah don't accept any religion, never (385) ... and thus, including any reference Islam as a religion. If they claimed Islam is almost equal to religion, then it is not a religion. Simply because almost equal is not equal.
Yes.Islam is Allah's system and religion is a man made.
Peace )
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Salam muslims.
This verse is a allegorical one.Some Quran verses contains allegorical sentence such like "kill yourself" (254,456), "eat the properties" (218.
The fact is not all creatures especially humans want sujud to Allah.
sujud/sajada not simply means prostation n it's the meaning lowly, humble, submissive, worship, adore, prostrate, make obeisance, lower/bend oneself down towards the ground, lower the head, to salute/honour/magnify, to pay respect, to stand up, to look continuedly and tranquily.
So this means we cannot judge so easily if Ibees sujud to Allah.
Yes.Islam is Allah's system and religion is a man made.
Peace )
Salam Earthdom,
It could be many possibilities if we make a conclusion based on "speculations".
Therefore it is proper if we based our argument on facts of the Qur'an. (<a href="http//quran.com/42/10">4210</a>
Thus our main issues are
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Can you prove Iblees do not prostrate* to Allah?
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Can you prove; during the creation of Adam, Iblees prostrate* to other than Allah?
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Can you deny angels prostrate* to Allah and Adam?
- you can insert any proper meaning you like to the word "prostrate" above.
Peace.
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Facts 1 Iblees did not prostrate to Adam, and neither the Qur'an tells Iblees prostrate to others.
Without Allah's command, it would be grave disobedience to prostrate to any other than Allah.Facts 2 The Qur'an claims that all living creatures are prostrating to Allah
And to Allah prostrates
whatever is in the heavens
and whatever is in the earth
of every beast
and the Angels
and they do not wax proud
(1649)Therefore, Iblees are prostrating to Allah.
Issue Now from the facts of the Qur'an,
Can you prove Iblees do not prostrate to Allah?
1649 And to Allah prostrates whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth of creatures, and the angels, and they are not arrogant.
1650 They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded.The question to ask then is, if they do not fear their Lord above them and do not do what they are commanded, can they still be said to prostrate? Unwilling prostration and willing prostration 1315 etc; another layer to prostration in the bigger picture. Iblis did not prostrate to Allah alone willingly because he disobeyed the command that Allah gave. However, he still prostrates to Allah in the bigger picture as does everything willingly or unwillingly. The plan unfolds as the plan must, whether we are willing or unwilling; the reality remains the same.
peace
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1649 And to Allah prostrates whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth of creatures, and the angels, and they are not arrogant.
1650 They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded.The question to ask then is, if they do not fear their Lord above them and do not do what they are commanded, can they still be said to prostrate? Unwilling prostration and willing prostration 1315 etc; another layer to prostration in the bigger picture. Iblis did not prostrate to Allah alone willingly because he disobeyed the command that Allah gave. However, he still prostrates to Allah in the bigger picture as does everything willingly or unwillingly. The plan unfolds as the plan must, whether we are willing or unwilling; the reality remains the same.
peace
Salam savage_carrot,
Firstly, the scope of our discussion is in relation to the issue of "prostration" and in relation to the story of Iblees and Adam.
Secondly, the verse I have given is the facts that all living creatures are prostrating to Allah.
These are clear facts, and logically speaking, none would not prostrate to The Creator.
However, how they are prostrating to Allah?
Only Allah knows.
My main point is they are prostrating to Allah, including Iblees.
It is so since Allah said "whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth"
What are other facts from the Qur'an?
Iblees is presence with the angels when the command to prostrate to Adam.
What is his rank to be presence during the command?
Is his rank equal to that who would prostate to Allah, or who do not prostrate to Allah?
Peace.
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Firstly, the scope of our discussion is in relation to the issue of "prostration" and in relation to the story of Iblees and Adam.
Cool, so fact 2 by you was related, no?Secondly, the verse I have given is the facts that all living creatures are prostrating to Allah.
Everything prostrates willingly or unwillingly as per 1315.These are clear facts, and logically speaking, none would not prostrate to The Creator.
??However, how they are prostrating to Allah?
Only Allah knows.
They have no choice but to submit to the plan/will of the creator which is another layer in the bigger picture, willingly or unwillingly. e.g. whether they choose to believe in an ultimate judgement or not, it will still come to pass.My main point is they are prostrating to Allah, including Iblees.
Everything is, yes. Whether willingly or unwillingly.It is so since Allah said "whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth"
yes.What are other facts from the Qur'an?
Iblees is presence with the angels when the command to prostrate to Adam.
What is his rank to be presence during the command?
He was a malaika commanded to obey his Lord's directive.Is his rank equal to that who would prostate to Allah, or who do not prostrate to Allah?
He should have but he didn't, like some other malaika who were then stripped of their rank. They chose not to obey, they did not prostrate to Allah willingly but everything prostrates to Allah, the truth, the reality, willingly or unwillingly.I'm kind of confused however, what is the argument from your side? That iblis prostrates to Allah alone as does everything else so...that is enough/not enough? Does the willing or unwilling nature of such prostration not have an effect on us/everything, or is it irrelevant somehow? Is something else needed perhaps or not? Please clarify.
peace
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Everything prostrates willingly or unwillingly as per 1315.
Both red words are not in the Ayah. Relative Pronoun "Man" relates to living. There is conjunction Waw not Auo.
The statement of the translator is patently contrary to ground realities. Billiond of people do not prostrate. The Arabic text does not say what English sentence suggests.
The accusative endings reveal both the words as relating to circumstances in which the act is done.
Be aware; He who is living-exists in the Skies and the Earth submits humbly in surrender; and will acknowledge and submit humbly in surrender for Allah the Exalted; in the states arising on willful acceptance-acknowledgement with reverence; and under compulsion of coercive circumstances.
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Salam savage_carrot,
Everything is, yes. Whether willingly or unwillingly.
yes.
My point Iblees is prostrating to Allah at all material times, and you have agreed.
It does not matter willingly or unwillingly.
What matter is the facts that Iblees is prostrating to Allah, till this moment and forever.
He was a malaika commanded to obey his Lord's directive.
You are saying Iblees is "malaika" (reference?).
Then would it be reasonable to accept the facts that ..
He is prostrating to "Allah Alone" prior to the creation of Adam?
He does not associate anyone with Allah?I'm kind of confused however, what is the argument from your side?
You can refer to post #1
Peace.
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It does not matter willingly or unwillingly.
If you think so, okay.
You are saying Iblees is "malaika" (reference?).
234
Then would it be reasonable to accept the facts that ..
He is prostrating to "Allah Alone" prior to the creation of Adam?
He does not associate anyone with Allah?
When you say willing or unwilling is irrelevant then what's the point of singling out iblis' prostration to Allah Alone or associating whatsoever whenever? Everything prostrates, end of. And not just in that scenario.You can refer to post #1
There is no evidence in the Quran
that Iblees prostrate to any other than AllahIblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"
Iblees is "Allah Alone"
Why single out iblis as prostrating to 'Allah Alone' when everything does? If you don't factor the willingness or lack thereof, then it's just selective for no good reason.peace
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Both red words are not in the Ayah. Relative Pronoun "Man" relates to living. There is conjunction Waw not Auo.
The statement of the translator is patently contrary to ground realities. Billiond of people do not prostrate. The Arabic text does not say what English sentence suggests.
The accusative endings reveal both the words as relating to circumstances in which the act is done.
Be aware; He who is living-exists in the Skies and the Earth submits humbly in surrender; and will acknowledge and submit humbly in surrender for Allah the Exalted; in the states arising on willful acceptance-acknowledgement with reverence; and under compulsion of coercive circumstances.
I can't understand your translation, Mazhar. Are you saying that Allah exists in the skies... and the earth only and only living beings on said earth submits humbly in surrender according to your translation? We have examples of smoke/sky and earth given choices (4111) and think that consciousness is a matter of much debate. If you think you can clarify, please start a new thread in the appropriate section, I'd be interested in reading what you make of consciousness as mentioned in the quran and what it can mean in the context of the many different scenario's presented therein. Thanks.
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Salaam,
God means that if He so wills no one has a choice but to obey. He can make anyone do something against their will should He so desire.
God bless you
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Salaam,
God means that if He so wills no one has a choice but to obey. He can make anyone do something against their will should He so desire.
God bless you
It makes little to no sense for God to force someone to make choices they didn't want to make, since that makes said choices meaningless. The system would be streamlined/efficient, the choices that we make would be ours and factored into the program, while the program would still execute according to the designed plan, the will of God. I think that we might be confusing our choices with that of God's will or in other words, God's system. We all have no choice in that regard but to submit to the system, since we are present therein, but we do have the capacity to make our choices...and those can't change the system/program in place. It will unfold as it must, we are either with the flow, drifting or against it, what determines our success or failure.
peace
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It makes little to no sense for God to force someone to make choices they didn't want to make, since that makes said choices meaningless. The system would be streamlined/efficient, the choices that we make would be ours and factored into the program, while the program would still execute according to the designed plan, the will of God. I think that we might be confusing our choices with that of God's will or in other words, God's system. We all have no choice in that regard but to submit to the system, since we are present therein, but we do have the capacity to make our choices...and those can't change the system/program in place. It will unfold as it must, we are either with the flow, drifting or against it, what determines our success or failure.
peace
Salam,
Well said. Now I think I'm starting to understand the apparent contradiction of free will and all prevailing God's will .
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Salam,
A picture is worth a thousand words.
This what we should be doing.
http//s16.postimg.org/805wdizsj/Islam.png
However, this is what we are doing today.
Standing up on "what is right or wrong on each separate elements".
Fire Based Religion Hinduism, Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Khawarij Islam etc.
Air Based Religion Christianity, Da'wah Islam, Political Islam etc.
Water Based Religion Buddhism, Atheism, Sufi Islam, Tasawwuf, Educational Islam etc.
Earth Based Religion Judaism, Quranism Islam, Wahabi Islam etc.
Therefore, can we say any of the above religions is "Din of Islam"?
Nope, it is a religion.
And whoever seeks a "dnan" (ا other than Islam
it will NEVER be accepted of him
and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
(385)This is what happened today within the Islamic World.
And they say
"None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian."
That is their wishful thinking
Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."
Yes
whoever submits his face in Islam to Allah
while being a doer of good
will have his reward with his Lord
And no fear will there be concerning them
nor will they grieve.The Jews say
"The Christians have nothing to stand on,"
and the Christians say
"The Jews have nothing to stand on,"
although they recite the Scripture.
Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words.
But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection
concerning that over which they used to differAnd who are more unjust than those
who prevent the name of Allah from being mentioned in His mosques (system?)
and strive toward their destruction
It is not for them to enter them except in fear
For them in this world is disgrace
and they will have in the Hereafter a great punishmentAnd to Allah belongs the east and the west
So wherever you turn
there is the Face of Allah
Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing(2111-115)
"And to Allah belongs the east and the west"
To Allah belongs the direction (intention, kiblah) and whatever you do (action, amal, madhab, religion).
As long you are in Islam to Allah and doer of good
"wherever you might turn"
"there is the Face of Allah"
"No fear will there be concerning them"
"nor will they grieve"
Now, just a philosophical statement...
as to the meaning of solat
http//s13.postimg.org/f0sag5q85/solat.png
Fire = South = Law and order = Alif = Asmaullah = and so on...
Air = West = Communication/Humanity = Lam = Afaalullah = and so on...
Water = East = Knowledge/Expertise = Lam = Sifatullah = and so on...
Earth = North = Persistence/Ground/Humble = Ha = Dzatullah = and so on...Fire + Air + Water + Earth/Soil = Planet of Earth - Sunnatullah
The formula to combine all the above elements is "just and balance" (Sunnatullah)
Since, "just and balance" has no religion.
Equally, the same principle can be applied to the business world, family institution or any other areas, ie. Policy, Communication, Expertise, and Persistence/Humble. It does not matter what you do, or how big is the tasks at hand or how big is your struggle with Islam. It is about monitoring and balancing these elements in whatever tasks in hand, balancing it in our life.
Solat. Perfection (Khusyu'.
This is jihad.
Peace.
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Jihad
And those who believe in Allah and His Messengers
they are the Siddiqun
and the martyrs (syahid) with their Lord
they shall have their reward and their light
But those who disbelieve
and deny Our Ayat (disobedience)
they shall be the dwellers of the blazing Fire
(<a href="http//quran.com/57/19">5719</a> -
Salaam Savage_Carrot,
This was what I meant with my short phrases. Thank you.
God bless you
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Salam,
I believe if it is true that Muhammad was performing solah.
He is not communicating the "ritual prayer", and the idea of religion.
He knew that the Ummah will revert back to the "idea of religion" and "rituals".
Therefore, he is communicating and preserving the "meaning of Islam from that ritual prayer"
The same way how human communicate and preserving messages thousand years ago.
Through "symbols" and "statues".
Is he brilliant or not? )
Peace
And in whatever thing you disagree <-- Formula for Unity - "Quran Alone" vs. "Allah Alone"
the judgment thereof is (in) Allah's (hand)
that is Allah
my Lord
on Him do I rely
and to Him do I turn
time after timeThe Originator of the heavens and the earth
He made mates for you from among yourselves <-- Differences / Descriptions
and mates of the cattle too
multiplying you thereby
nothing like a likeness of Him
and He is the Hearing
the SeeingHis are the treasures of the heavens and the earth
He makes ample and straitens the means of subsistence
for whom He pleases
surely He is Cognizant of all thingsHe has made plain to you <-- What is Islam
of the Din (l-dni)
what He enjoined upon Nuh
and that which We have revealed to you
and that which We enjoined upon Ibrahim
and Musa
and Isa
that keep to obedience
and be not divided thereinhard to the unbelievers is that which you call them to <-- Challenges - Mushrikeen (<a href="http//quran.com/30/32">3032</a>
Allah chooses for Himself whom He pleases
and guides to Himself him who turns (to Him), frequentlyAnd they did not become divided <-- Religion & Division
until after knowledge had come to them
out of envy among themselvesand had not a word gone forth from your Lord till an appointed term
certainly judgment would have been given between them
and those who were made to inherit the Book after them
are most surely in disquieting doubt concerning itTo this then go on inviting <-- Task for Muslims
and go on steadfastly
on the right way
as you are commanded
and do not follow their low desires
and sayI believe in what Allah has revealed of the Book
and I am commanded to do justice between you <-- role as Mediators and Conciliators
Allah is our Lord and your Lord vs. Provoker & create more divisions
we shall have our deeds
and you shall have your deeds
no plea need there be (now) between us and you
Allah will gather us together
and to Him is the returnAnd (as for) those who dispute about Allah <-- Warning
after that obedience has been rendered to Him
their plea is null with their Lord
and upon them is wrath
and for them is severe punishment(<a href="http//quran.com/42/10-16">4210-16</a>
A Muslim must now learn how to become Negotiator, Mediator and Conciliator. There is no religion and it is not about to spread Islam, since Islam is not a religion. It is about to spread peace, harmony and unity in the society. It's about benefiting humanity, kindness to His creation and giving to relatives. This is how people from different backgrounds and traditions are able to accept Islam by our Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Unconditional acceptance (respect) of world religious practices and balancing what is just to every living creatures. This is "Din of Islam".