Non performers of As-Salaat are not true believers
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Peace Novice.
Sure why not. The possible meanings here could be
- Establish the deen and do not be divided.
- Remain steadfast in deen and do not be divided.
What would not make any sense is
Perform the deen and do not be divided.
What I am trying to argue in this thread is that assuming there is a disagreement over the meaning of a noun, can we look at the meaning of the action verbs associated with the noun to find clues concerning its meaning.
So the exercise for the intellectually honest student of the Quran would be to make a list of verses where Salaat is mentioned along with the action verb. Then without any bias look at the meaning of each verb and see if the verse would make sense if Salaat is hypothesized to be some kind of a ritual.
As an example, in verse 1187 I have a hard time believing Salaat could be a 5 times-a-day ritual based on the action verb, for the verse does not make much sense.
When aqimus is translated as 'to establish' , I am not convinced that establishing salaat equates to praying 5 times a day as this verb can also be used with ideas. Examples would be establishing frameworks, laws, system etc.
aqimus can also mean 'to remain steadfast' which points to Salaat having a more wider meaning than just being reduced to a physical exercise.
In traditional muslim circles, notice the verbs that are used with Salaat to force it to become a ritual
- Lets 'perform' salaat
- Lets 'read' namaaz (salaat)
When asked where have these verbs been used in the Quran alongside Salaat, they have no answer! )
Thanks Brother. That is exactly what I got from this ayat.
The 5 time ritual becomes invalid at the places like the polar regions or say in space. The fatwa given that follow the timings of the nearest settlements is non-Quranic and again it is not applicable in space. So my understanding at this stage is that meaning of "aqeem-ussalat" must be different than the prevalent ones.
handshake -
Agreed
Peace Mazhar,
I do not disagree with you as to what a believer is, what I disagree with is that someone
who has not attain the status of momin is kufr I would consider some people Muslim
according to ayat 49/14-15 not believers but not non-believers (rejecters, deniers).Your feedback would be appreciated.
God bless
peace
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Momin and Kaafir relates to thought process relayed verbally or through gesture. You invite somebody to belief, he turns and moves away without saying no to you. It shows he has refused to believe in the word you are asking him to believe.
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He without compulsion and coercion accepts your word, he claims he has become belieber. What is the testing instrument with you to know or gauge the truthfullness of his claim? He is either truly a believer or is not a true believer. You cannot call him a Kaafir.
Allah defines by narrating the characteristic features and the actions performed by a claimant of a belief as to who is a true believer.
Actions are subsequent to one's belief and are the indicators for others to accept him as a true believer. As-Salat is one of the indicators.
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Momin and Kaafir relates to thought process relayed verbally or through gesture. You invite somebody to belief, he turns and moves away without saying no to you. It shows he has refused to believe in the word you are asking him to believe.
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He without compulsion and coercion accepts your word, he claims he has become belieber. What is the testing instrument with you to know or gauge the truthfullness of his claim? He is either truly a believer or is not a true believer. You cannot call him a Kaafir.
Allah defines by narrating the characteristic features and the actions performed by a claimant of a belief as to who is a true believer.
Actions are subsequent to one's belief and are the indicators for others to accept him as a true believer. As-Salat is one of the indicators.
Peace Mazhar,
Thank you for your explanation, I agree with #2.
God bless
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Peace all
This is for all those who believe, that the AQIMUS (and its derivatives) SALAT, in whole Quran means PERFORMING OF THE RITUAL SALAT and believe that AATUS (and its derivatives) ZAKAT, in the whole Quran means GIVING CHARITY
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they REPENT and PERFORM THE (FIVE TIMES) RITUAL PRAYER (AS THE BELIEVERS DO) and GIVE (2.5%) ZAKAT then LEAVE their WAY FREE Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 95
But if they REPENT and PERFORM THE (FIVE TIMES) RITUAL PRAYER (AS THE BELIEVERS DO) and GIVE (2.5%) ZAKAT, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. 911
Why is Allah so much interested in the DISBELIEVER'S performing of the SALAT and giving of ZAKAT and why Allah has put these two COMMANDS as a condition for LEAVING THEIR WAY FREE?
Why Allah did not mention ? IF THEY REPENT, BELIEVE, PRAY, GIVE ZAKAT, FAST, PERFORM HAJJ, then leave their way free?
Why Allah did not mention ? IF THEY REPENT, BELIEVE, PRAY, GIVE ZAKAT, FAST, PERFORM HAJJ, then they are your brethren in your
DEENDid Allah forgot to include BELIEVE, FAST, PERFORM HAJJ in His command to let them go free or to make them your brethren in your DEEN?
How do the DISBELIEVERS by just PERFORMING THE SALAT AND GIVING OF ZAKAT tend to become BRETHREN of the BELIEVERS in the DEEN without BELIEVING?
Should the disbelievers, PERFORM THE PRAYER and GIVE ZAKAT only ONCE or THROUGHOUT their life, to let them go FREE?
If it is only ONCE then the command of Allah is USELESS and if it is for LIFETIME then it means that Allah is forcing His will on the disbelievers and such command can never be expected from Allah.
O Mankind, the Messenger has come to you with the truth from your Lord, so believe; it is better for you. But if you disbelieve - then indeed, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and earth. And ever is Allah Knowing and Wise.7170
No COMMAND to BELIEVE, then why the COMMAND to PERFORM the SALAT and give ZAKAT for letting them FREE?
Should the BELIEVERS wait till the month of RAMADHAN to LET THEM GO FREE because only then the DISBELIEVRS will be able to give ZAKAT?
To whom should the DISBELIEVERS give ZAKAT, to their own BRETHREN or the BELIEVERS?
Since HADITH was not there and the percentage of ZAKAT and to whom it should be given and when to be given is not MENTIONED in the QURAN, in this situation the DISBELIEVERS should give ZAKAT to Whom? When? HOW much?
The DSBELIEVERS might have asked the PROPHET to produce the verses pertaining to ZAKAT because Allah commanded them to give ZAKAT? In the absence of such verses in the QURAN, did the PROPHET present them his SUNNAH?
Say I am only a mortal like you; it is revealed to me that your Allah is one Allah, therefore follow the right way to Him and ask His forgiveness; and WOE TO THE POLYTHEIST WHO DO NOT GIVE ZAKAT; and they in the Hereafter, are disbelievers 417/8
If the polytheists GIVE ZAKAT (without BELIEVEING in ALLAH) then there is NO WOE to them?
Why should the DISBELIVERS perform the PRAYERS and give ZAKAT when they do not believe in Allah, His Messengers, His Books, and the Judgment day?
There is no COMPULSION in DEEN. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower 2256
If there is no COMPULSION, then why COMPULSION for the DISBELIEVERS to PERFORM the PRAYERS and to give ZAKAT, which are the parts of the DEEN?
Think about it and ponder over the word REPENT and that will lead you to understand the correct meaning of SALAT and ZAKAT in the above 2 verses
Thanks
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Peace all
This is for all those who believe, that the AQIMUS (and its derivatives) SALAT, in whole Quran means PERFORMING OF THE RITUAL SALAT and believe that AATUS (and its derivatives) ZAKAT, in the whole Quran means GIVING CHARITY
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they REPENT and PERFORM THE (FIVE TIMES) RITUAL PRAYER (AS THE BELIEVERS DO) and GIVE (2.5%) ZAKAT then LEAVE their WAY FREE Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 95
But if they REPENT and PERFORM THE (FIVE TIMES) RITUAL PRAYER (AS THE BELIEVERS DO) and GIVE (2.5%) ZAKAT, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. 911
Why is Allah so much interested in the DISBELIEVER'S performing of the SALAT and giving of ZAKAT and why Allah has put these two COMMANDS as a condition for LEAVING THEIR WAY FREE?
Why Allah did not mention ? IF THEY REPENT, BELIEVE, PRAY, GIVE ZAKAT, FAST, PERFORM HAJJ, then leave their way free?
Why Allah did not mention ? IF THEY REPENT, BELIEVE, PRAY, GIVE ZAKAT, FAST, PERFORM HAJJ, then they are your brethren in your
DEENDid Allah forgot to include BELIEVE, FAST, PERFORM HAJJ in His command to let them go free or to make them your brethren in your DEEN?
How do the DISBELIEVERS by just PERFORMING THE SALAT AND GIVING OF ZAKAT tend to become BRETHREN of the BELIEVERS in the DEEN without BELIEVING?
Should the disbelievers, PERFORM THE PRAYER and GIVE ZAKAT only ONCE or THROUGHOUT their life, to let them go FREE?
If it is only ONCE then the command of Allah is USELESS and if it is for LIFETIME then it means that Allah is forcing His will on the disbelievers and such command can never be expected from Allah.
O Mankind, the Messenger has come to you with the truth from your Lord, so believe; it is better for you. But if you disbelieve - then indeed, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and earth. And ever is Allah Knowing and Wise.7170
No COMMAND to BELIEVE, then why the COMMAND to PERFORM the SALAT and give ZAKAT for letting them FREE?
Should the BELIEVERS wait till the month of RAMADHAN to LET THEM GO FREE because only then the DISBELIEVRS will be able to give ZAKAT?
To whom should the DISBELIEVERS give ZAKAT, to their own BRETHREN or the BELIEVERS?
Since HADITH was not there and the percentage of ZAKAT and to whom it should be given and when to be given is not MENTIONED in the QURAN, in this situation the DISBELIEVERS should give ZAKAT to Whom? When? HOW much?
The DSBELIEVERS might have asked the PROPHET to produce the verses pertaining to ZAKAT because Allah commanded them to give ZAKAT? In the absence of such verses in the QURAN, did the PROPHET present them his SUNNAH?
Say I am only a mortal like you; it is revealed to me that your Allah is one Allah, therefore follow the right way to Him and ask His forgiveness; and WOE TO THE POLYTHEIST WHO DO NOT GIVE ZAKAT; and they in the Hereafter, are disbelievers 417/8
If the polytheists GIVE ZAKAT (without BELIEVEING in ALLAH) then there is NO WOE to them?
Why should the DISBELIVERS perform the PRAYERS and give ZAKAT when they do not believe in Allah, His Messengers, His Books, and the Judgment day?
There is no COMPULSION in DEEN. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower 2256
If there is no COMPULSION, then why COMPULSION for the DISBELIEVERS to PERFORM the PRAYERS and to give ZAKAT, which are the parts of the DEEN?
Think about it and ponder over the word REPENT and that will lead you to understand the correct meaning of SALAT and ZAKAT in the above 2 verses
Thanks
Very interesting!
and very important!Thank you
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Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they REPENT and PERFORM THE (FIVE TIMES) RITUAL PRAYER (AS THE BELIEVERS DO) and GIVE (2.5%) ZAKAT then LEAVE their WAY FREE Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 95
But if they REPENT and PERFORM THE (FIVE TIMES) RITUAL PRAYER (AS THE BELIEVERS DO) and GIVE (2.5%) ZAKAT, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. 911
Salam Alaikum.
These two verses (95 and 911) are denoting conversion, i.e, if the idolaters repent and convert to the deen of Islam, then they should be forgiven. That's why in 911 it says that they would become our "brethren in religion". And the verses mention salat and zakat beacuse these are two of the most important duties in the deen of Islam.
As for the argument that why didn't God use the words 'believe', it's because the verses primarily denote conversion, hence no need to use the word 'believe' as it becomes clear what God is trying to say.
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peace,
These two verses (95 and 911) are denoting conversion, i.e, if the idolaters repent and convert to the deen of Islam, then they should be forgiven. That's why in 911 it says that they would become our "brethren in religion". And the verses mention salat and zakat beacuse these are two of the most important duties in the deen of Islam.
As for the argument that why didn't God use the words 'believe', it's because the verses primarily denote conversion, hence no need to use the word 'believe' as it becomes clear what God is trying to say.
The above is commonly claimed, but proves to be weak once the verses are analysed, see detail here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm -
Brother Mazhar,
Please correct me if my understanding is wrong in my previous post regarding 95 and 911.
salaam,
Is Mazhar the one who validates an understanding?
I think you will find more wisdom in the post above from brother hafeez kazi, then you will find in the whole website of Mazhar, but that is just my humble opinion.
salaam,
Bender -
peace,
The above is commonly claimed, but proves to be weak once the verses are analysed, see detail here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htmsalaam,
Is Mazhar the one who validates an understanding?
I think you will find more wisdom in the post above from brother hafeez kazi, then you will find in the whole website of Mazhar, but that is just my humble opinion.
salaam,
BenderDear brother Wakas and Bender,
Thanks for your input.
I would like to see your comments in this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605815.0
Peace.
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Peace Wakas,
It seems missed your attention
Please rebut if these five timings are not mentioned in Qur'aan specifically with As-Salat?
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/8.%20Deen%20Constitution%20Islam%20and%20its%20protocols/Protocols%20of%20Islam/Salat%20timings.jpgPlease remember http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/01.Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20003/34.%20Tarfan%20Toi%20Ra%20Fa/2.gif is dual signifiying two; its Noon is dropped being in construct.
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Peace,
You have not given a thought even for a second to reflect about the difference in words of the languages that relate to substance and accident.
Anything that is performed has a performer; every act has a doer; and they are called in English Active Participles and in Arabic the doer of an act.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/107.%20Al%20Maoon/107.4.gif
As-Salat is thereby a protocol which is performed and its performer-doer-active participle is called
Peace Mazhar,
Thank you for the lesson in grammar. Lets simplify it now.
Definition
The active participle (AP) is a morphological form derived from a verb to refer to the person or animate being that performs the action denoted by the verb.Examples from adhan we get muezzin, from salam, we get Muslim etc.
hence in equivalent english examples would be
The performer performs
The eater eats
The announcer announces
The submitter submits
The believer believesEach performer performs an action according to meaning of the verb and active participle defines role of the actor
Now, in contrast to the definition above, what you are implying is
The eater performs
The announcer performs
The submitter performs
The believer performs
The Musalleen performwhich will cause the casual reader to assign any meaning to the active participle as he/she sees fit. Do you now see the problem in the article you have written?
What I am asking you is to focus on the verb from which Mussaleen has been derived? What is the meaning of the verb which would help us to determine the meaning of the active participle? This will help to clue us in on the meaning of the noun 'Salaat'
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What this ponderence has revealed to you the meanings of SALAT and ZAKAT?
That you choose to ask a question about his views on Salaat and Zakat rather than provide a rebuttal leads me to believe that there are gaps in your knowledge that require further research on your part. You did the same when I asked you about Shuaib's Salat instead of providing a clear argument of how Shuaib's 5 prayers a day can irritate the elite of Madyan people.
As a consequence, the inflammatory title of this thread becomes moot and should not to be taken too seriously. )
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Brother Mazhar,
Please correct me if my understanding is wrong in my previous post regarding 95 and 911.
Come on man up and take some personal responsibility!
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That you choose to ask a question about his views on Salaat and Zakat rather than provide a rebuttal leads me to believe that there are gaps in your knowledge that require further research on your part. You did the same when I asked you about Shuaib's Salat instead of providing a clear argument of how Shuaib's 5 prayers a day can irritate the elite of Madyan people.
As a consequence, the inflammatory title of this thread becomes moot and should not to be taken too seriously.
Making a statement in vacuum is just nonsense and idiotic behavior, to say the least. When somebody proclaims that ponderence on a word will lead you to know the meanings, he must be in a position to let you know what has he derived.
You don't read when things are answered. Shaib's alahissalam prayer is not irritating them, they are irritated about what they were asked regarding what they were required to do.
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Examples from adhan we get muezzin, from salam, we get Muslim etc.
hence in equivalent english examples would be
The performer performs
The eater eats
The announcer announces
The submitter submits
The believer believesEach performer performs an action according to meaning of the verb and active participle defines role of the actor
Peace
Again read your own post and reflect what is lacking.
The performer performs-----------what
The eater eats--------------------- what
The announcer announces-------whatMussali does this
And what he is doing is called As-Salat for which you need to stand at one place as was he standing within a premises.
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As a consequence, the inflammatory title of this thread becomes moot and should not to be taken too seriously.
Enjoy the result
Have you seen him who forbids allegiant person when he performed Sa'laat Time bound Protocol of Allegiance?
You may not have noticed him but does he the forbidder know not that Allah the Exalted is certainly watching him?
Nay, it is certain that if he did not self desist forbidding the performance of Sa'laat Time bound Protocol of Allegiance We will certainly drag him by the forelock;
His forelock characteristically in habit of lying and deliberately sinful.
Be always mindful for performing As-Salaat; and just peep in the Hell-Prison to listen its dwellers
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Examples from adhan we get muezzin, from salam, we get Muslim etc.
hence in equivalent english examples would be
Peace
Again read your own post and reflect what is lacking.
The performer performs-----------what
The eater eats--------------------- what
The announcer announces-------whatWhat is lacking? Are you saying the eater eats salaat?
Mussali does this
And what he is doing is called As-Salat for which you need to stand at one place as was he standing within a premises.
http//www.everyayah.com/data/images_png/33_43.png
And can I ask why you do not translate yusalli as as-salaat in 3343? Why translate 'salaat' in 339 and 'blessing' in 3343?
I think you need to try a little harder. )
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Reply 225
You merely ignore the basics of language.
Arabic words take birth from Roots. Each Root has specific, defined, distinct, conspicuous, apparent perception folded in it. Words, originating from these Roots on various well defined patterns-moulds-structuring frames, retain the original perception infolded in the Root, dominantly and conspicuously, with additional meanings and connotation, shades and colours added by the peculiar pattern-placing of vowels-syllabification, and addition of consonants. Moreover, relational aspect of the semantic field will also influence and add connotations to the word. Hence; the meanings, perception and connotation of an Arabic Word is the composite whole of the perception infolded in its Root, coupled with meanings associated with its pattern, and its relation to the semantic field where it is used. It signifies that the basic meanings of a Root and word do not exhaust when they are used in a different semantic field, relational area, while necessarily retaining the base meanings.
Now again look at the basic perception of the Root
Basic perception infolded in the Root is to praise and magnify; expressing commendation or wishing blessings upon the one who is revered or appreciated.
And now again look on both the Ayahs and the surrounding words to notice the difference.
