Worship Allah and not the Quran
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We don't know.
Salam,
Exactly! (read here, Why Allah is not God?)
To claim Allah is "God" means to set in our mind that there is God in Islam, God in Christianity, God in Hinduism, God in Buddhism... and Allah is one of those Gods, the only one true God.
Is this Shirk?
Nor is there to Him any equivalent <- including the concept of "God", it is not equivalent!
(1124)Further, the Qur'an is a book about us and other living creatures.
It is about the Deen of Islam and fulfillment of our duty.
Quite simply, it is a book all about us, discussing our creation, purpose, history, spirituality, psyche, life's big questions, justice, governance etc. It is a guide on how to realise our potential, individually and collectively, if one chooses to seek this path; http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/more.htm
(The objective of Allah's command in its context is related to the importance of successorship. So as the Qur'an, where almost the whole content is about humanity and other living creatures on earth; ie. successorship. The Qur'an is not about Allah, but it is about His creations.)
Peace.
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Salam,
Exactly! (read here, Why Allah is not God?)
To claim Allah is "God" means to set in our mind that there is God in Islam, God in Christian, God in Hinduism, God in Buddhism... and Allah is one of those Gods, the only one true God. Is this Shirk?
Further, the Qur'an is a book about us and other living creatures.
It is about the Deen of Islam and fulfillment of our duty.
Peace.
Allah is only a reference to 'God', but so is the word 'God'.
The truth of the matter, is that in fact we can not say anything, not even utter the concept, cause even that would become subject to our own limitations.
Stating (I dont believe in claiming) that 'Allah is God', is confusing and fallacious. Is it fallacious to confuse, or is it confusing because its fallacious?
To ease it up for the sake of problem solving, this statement is acceptable only if we are aware of its deficiency.
It is meant to confirm that the concept of 'Allah' is held apart from 'God' by people, and at the same time state that this is wrong cause they are the same.
Its a statement which doesnt mean anything, until you 'define' what you mean by God or Allah. While this is possible, defining God 'Himself' is impossible.
Defining what you mean, is creating a concept, which is deficient in advance. Keeping this serious shortcoming in mind, it is easy to differentiate between concepts.
You can say there is one God, and that the concept which approaches this statement the most, is the one presented by the quran.
After that, it is safe to state that all the other concepts are invalid at some or all points (define points).
If one concept overlaps with the other, it doesnt mean that there are more gods, but simply that either the origin is one, or the logical construction behind the concept is similar. It doesnt say anything about 'God'.
The 'deen' (u left this word untranslated conciously didnt you?) of islam is not what its about. Its about God.
Islam (submission) is merely a logical consequence of our consciousness of the necessity of nature to the existence of God, so is the 'duty' you refer to.
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Its a statement which doesnt mean anything, until you 'define' what you mean by God or Allah. While this is possible, defining God 'Himself' is impossible.
Salam,
What is Allah?
Say, "He is Allah , One,
(1121)So wherever you turn
there is the face of Allah
(2115)Can we understand the above explanation?
Nope! Unthinkable and unimaginable. Therefore, the reference of Allah as God in the Qur'an are subjected to the interpretation of Sura al-Ikhlas. The sura that defines what is Allah.
Its reference is only for human beings who are only able to derive the understanding of Allah from the concept of God (claim of ownership etc). It is the process, but not the destination or true meanings of Allah. As equal to the issue of whether a deen is a religion, Allah is not God, among other gods.
(read here, Why Allah is not God?)
Peace brother. peace
La Illah Ila Allah
There is no god, there is only Allah. -
Salam,
What is Allah?
Say, "He is Allah , One,
(1121)So wherever you turn
there is the face of Allah
(2115)Can we understand the above explanation?
Nope! Unthinkable and unimaginable. Therefore, the reference of Allah as God in the Qur'an are subjected to the interpretation of Sura al-Ikhlas. The sura that defines what is Allah.
Its reference is only for human beings who are only able to derive the understanding of Allah from the concept of God (claim of ownership etc). It is the process, but not the destination or true meanings of Allah. As equal to the issue of whether a deen is a religion, Allah is not God, among other gods.
Peace brother. peace
We can understand these verses to a certain extent, far enough to dismiss concepts which contradict these verses. They are verses, they are not 'God'.
What we can not do, is comprehend God.
Peace yay
ps I completely reject Ahmet Hulusi's conclusions about 'Allah'.
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Peace Muslims,
You have a basic problem, and that is you defy or misunderstand language.
Language
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a body of words and the systems for their use common to a people who are
of the same community or nation. -
a particular communication system shared by a people of written symbols
spoken words and movements.
In English Allah = God
In English Deen = religion
You have created your very own language barrier!
God bless
peace
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Peace Muslims,
You have a basic problem, and that is you defy or misunderstand language.
Language
-
a body of words and the systems for their use common to a people who are
of the same community or nation. -
a particular communication system shared by a people of written symbols
spoken words and movements.
In English Allah = God
In English Deen = religion
You have created your very own language barrier!
God bless
peace
Peace hawk99,
You are right, according to your understanding.
It is the process, but not the destination or true meanings of Allah.
Peace brother.
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What we can not do, is comprehend God.
Salam Nazzam,
Agreed, including the "word God" and all meaning associated with it. handshake
Its reference is only for human beings who are only able to derive the understanding of Allah from the concept of God (claim of ownership etc).
Peace brother.
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Peace hawk99,
You are right, according to your understanding.
Peace brother.
A process can have a 'fixed terminology', based on the rules of grammar, human psychology and such, transforming only gradually (and very slowly) through time to cope with our development.
You can try to direct the process (create your own vocabulary), but it will not stick or it will fail because the process is larger than the individual and outlives a human life. You can try to change it by force by political means (language revolution or reform), but that has been proven to bring more bad than good.
You can not just dismiss what hawk said by using the relativistic words 'according to your understanding', you should focus on what he is arguing and give an answer.
Peace )
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You can not just dismiss what hawk said by using the relativistic words 'according to your understanding', you should focus on what he is arguing and give an answer.
Salam,
I did, but I believe he choose to rely on dogma and fallacy, instead of the actual word of Allah. There is no compulsion for him to accept my argument.
In English Deen = religion
Salam hawk99,
Is this your argument? )
- "Madhab" is religion.
- "Deen" is not "Madhab".
- Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English.
Why?
Peace peace
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Peace hawk99,
You are right, according to your understanding.
Peace brother.
Not only my understanding, but by the folks who speak and understand English, who
you are trying but failing to communicate with in this forum, don't be so brickwall= chair = two different languages, still a chair
= rug = two different languages, still a rug
Salam hawk99,
Is this your argument?
- "Madhab" is religion.
- "Deen" is not "Madhab".
- Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English.
No that was not my argument, those are your words not mine. nope
God bless
peace
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Salam Nazzam
Similarly..
- Human beings understood Allah as God, among other gods.
- Surah 112 said Allah is not equivalent to "God" (One... Nor is there to Him any equivalent)
- Therefore, Allah is God. (among gods?)
Can you see what's wrong with your conclusion?
Peace
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No that was not my argument, those are your words not mine. nope
Salam
Please refer to the dictionary and root words for "Deen" and "Madhab".
So that you can see your conclusion is not corroborated with the actual premise for religion and deen.
Therefore, it is false conclusion (no. 3; ie. your conclusion).. a dogma.
Peace brother.
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Peace.
Not only my understanding, but by the folks who speak and understand English, who you are trying but failing to communicate with in this forum, don't be so brickwall
those are your words not mine. nope
Do you know which is the premise and the conclusion (argument)?
Don't confuse the "premise" with the "argument" (conclusion, no.3).
http//z5.ifrm.com/30336/15/0/f5229388/argument.png
- "Madhab" is religion. <- Premise 1
- "Deen" is not "Madhab". <- Premise 2
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Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English. <- Your argument, conclusion
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Human beings understood Allah as God, among other gods. <- Premise 1
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Surah 112 said Allah is not equivalent to "God(s)" <- Premise 2
(One... Nor is there to Him any equivalent)
- Therefore, Allah is God. (among gods?) <- Nazzam's argument, conclusion
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Salam,
If I have no other choice and need to choose at least one sect in order to free myself from all other sects, the least is to be identified as Muslim Atheism, since to be called as just a "Muslim" is very misleading and competitive. confused
Peace.
- Sects are condemned by God, don't pick one.
You say "Muslim atheism is a theological position in which the belief in religion
is rejected or absent but the teachings of the Quran are followed; My DefinitionHaving your own language can create unnecessary misunderstandings and confusion
that is my point.You say,
- "Madhab" is religion. <- Premise 1
- "Deen" is not "Madhab". <- Premise 2
- Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English. <- Your argument, conclusion
Again not my words, those are your words not mine. nope
Not only are you making up your own definitions, you also ascribe conclusions to me!
I'm a big boy I can speak for myself! I don't need you to draw conclusions for me!God bless
peace
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Again not my words, those are your words not mine. nope
Salam hawk99
Okay, you don't understand "Critical Thinking" and how to use proper reasoning.
You prefer the traditional thinking method, the dogmatic thinking method.
Understood! handshake
I'm a big boy I can speak for myself! I don't need you to draw conclusions for me!
In English Deen = religion
- Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English.
Peace brother.
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Salam hawk99
Okay, you don't understand "Critical Thinking" and how to use proper reasoning. You are using traditional thinking.
Peace brother.
Peace Muslims,
You make up your own definitions, but I'm the one not using proper reasoning?
I think it's impolite to laugh at someone, but you're pushing me.God bless
peace
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Y
ou do. Even more than you think. Your whole shia doctrine is defined by interaction with the ahl al-hadith, and it wasn't chrystallized until well into the 18th century.Our school is ancient, you must be a fool. lol
Prove it to me that our school did not chrystallize until 18th century..hahahaa
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Next question, do you believe that our Master Mustafa (sawa) is infallible?
Peace sword of tashayyu,
We only have one master
Do you not recognize the fact that GOD possesses the kingship of the heavens
and the earth; that you have none besides GOD as your Lord and Master?God bless
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Do you not recognize the fact that GOD possesses the kingship of the heavens
and the earth; that you have none besides GOD as your Lord and Master?You take Quran literally, lol.
Master because he will intercede for his followers, and Master is a sign of respect, Prophet Muhammad (sawa) said Man Kuntum Mawla Fahaza Aliyyun Mawla. Prophet Muhammad (sawa) is my Master and Allah is my creator Lord.