Gay and Muslim?
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Why wouldn't this thread be serious? Its very serious and relevant, if a person happens to be gay and interested in Islam. Thanks for all the respectful answers friends.
So the Koran basically suggests like the Bible that it wasn't necessarily homosexuality, but gang violence, rape, inhospitality, and so forth?
Salam
What is a Muslim?
Peace
I wanted to ask if a person can be gay and Muslim?
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I, like a few others here, gather that a Muslim is a submitter to God, and not necessarily an adherence to strict religious dogmas, but remembrance of God. Any reason a gay person can't be a Muslim?
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Salam
Is Munafiqoon or Mushrikeen is a Muslim?
Peace
(227) (57 ) (821) (3030) (446)
(28) (3938) (1031) (439) (367)
And (remember) Lout (Lot), when he said to his people
You commit Al-Fahishah (sodomy the worst sin)
which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns).
Verily, you do sodomy with men, and... <- comparison (1732)
(2929)(1430) (6150) (2543) (4523)
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Peace
The Sunnis and Shias promote and carry out violence against homosexuals, probably because they've got Hadith encouraging this type of action.
Regardless of what someone's views are in regard to homosexuality, there's nothing that in the Quran that justifies violence against people who are openly gay. Apart from violence, even discrimination or slander are not permissible.
I'm on a Quran only/Progressive Thinkers facebook group where people write in anonymously with their questions. We answer to the best of our ability. Though, I couldn't believe the amount of hatred against homosexuals, within this particular Quranist group. Nobody threatened anyone violently, but they were very mean-spirited.
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Salam
Between individuals (vs. state powers), it might have some truth in it and its up to the person to commit the "Al-Fahishah" or not..
Allah say..
Say, "Enjoy Yourselves! (1430)
and
O you who have believed
upon you is yourselves
(5105)However on the issue of whether he is a Muslim ...
I wanted to ask if a person can be gay and Muslim?
I don't think he is a Muslim.. the rule is very clear.
Why he wants to change the rule and be called as a Muslim if he don't want to follow the Qur'an? hmm
Only the munafiqoon (hypocrites) and mushrikeen (associators) wants to be called or identified with for what he was not.
(227) (57 ) (821) (3030) (446)
(28) (3938) (1031) (439) (367)
Peace
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Salam
Between individuals (vs. state powers), it might have some truth in it and its up to the person to commit the "Al-Fahishah" or not..
Allah say..
Say, "Enjoy Yourselves! (1430)
and
O you who have believed
upon you is yourselves
(5105)However on the issue of whether he is a Muslim ...
I don't think he is a Muslim.. the rule is very clear.
Why he wants to change the rule and be called as a Muslim if he don't want to follow the Qur'an? hmm
Only the munafiqoon (hypocrites) and mushrikeen (associators) wants to be called or identified for what he was not.
Peace
Peace
The complete ayat isAnd they set up rivals to God to mislead from His way. (They take the clergy as their
authorities instead of the Word of God, thus setting up ?rivals? to Him.) Tell
them, ?Enjoy life while you can, for your sure destination is the fire.?
Peace -
Peace
The complete ayat isAnd they set up rivals to God to mislead from His way. (They take the clergy as their
authorities instead of the Word of God, thus setting up ?rivals? to Him.) Tell
them, ?Enjoy life while you can, for your sure destination is the fire.?
PeaceSalam
I have given the link for further reference and "they set up rivals to God" is related to..
(1430) (6150) (2543) (4523)
Peace peace
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Brother I just copied and pasted from QXP. These are not my words.
SalamSalam
I know and I'm explaining so that people don't misunderstood or get confused.
Peace
p/s I leave that part "for your sure destination is the fire" for Allah to decide (it is not for human beings to decide - refer here).. and for those who wish to find out the full ayats.
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Salam
Is Munafiqoon or Mushrikeen is a Muslim?
Peace
(227) (57 ) (821) (3030) (446)
(2 (393 (1031) (439) (367)
And (remember) Lout (Lot), when he said to his people
You commit Al-Fahishah (sodomy the worst sin)
which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns).
Verily, you do sodomy with men, and... <- comparison (1732)
(2929)(1430) (6150) (2543) (4523)
Does Al-Fahishah actually translate Sodomy? Funny the word Sodom means charred or burnt, nothing more or less. Also, if no one committed it prior its not talking about homosexuality, as homosexuality existed in cultures way more ancient than Sodom.
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Peace
The Sunnis and Shias promote and carry out violence against homosexuals, probably because they've got Hadith encouraging this type of action.
Regardless of what someone's views are in regard to homosexuality, there's nothing that in the Quran that justifies violence against people who are openly gay. Apart from violence, even discrimination or slander are not permissible.
I'm on a Quran only/Progressive Thinkers facebook group where people write in anonymously with their questions. We answer to the best of our ability. Though, I couldn't believe the amount of hatred against homosexuals, within this particular Quranist group. Nobody threatened anyone violently, but they were very mean-spirited.
Some people are just hateful I guess, and I wonder if they think hate and discrimination are godly values?
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However on the issue of whether he is a Muslim ...
I don't think he is a Muslim.. the rule is very clear.
Why he wants to change the rule and be called as a Muslim if he don't want to follow the Qur'an? hmm
Only the munafiqoon (hypocrites) and mushrikeen (associators) wants to be called or identified with for what he was not.
Peace
You can think as you wish I suppose, and may God decide all disputes. )
I don't think you've really demonstrated the Quran is against specifically homosexuality, as others mentioned, there are things like gang violence associated with the actual Quranic sin. I'd hope no one would suggest homosexuals are all violent rapists.
Ultimately I think only God could determine who believes. Again, may God decide all disputes.
Peace
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Salam
Is Munafiqoon or Mushrikeen is a Muslim?
Peace
(227) (57 ) (821) (3030) (446)
(28) (3938) (1031) (439) (367)
And (remember) Lout (Lot), when he said to his people
You commit Al-Fahishah (sodomy the worst sin)
which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns).
Verily, you do sodomy with men, and... <- comparison (1732)
(2929)(1430) (6150) (2543) (4523)
Fahisha means immorality/lewdness. Adultery is one example of fahisha. See 42531 for one example of this.
Regarding the people of Lot committing lewdness not done before...
Homosexuality has been found depicted in cave paintings that are dated to be around 12,000 years old.
Further, physical evidence remains of homosexuality in Mesopotamia around 5,000 years ago; note that this is over a thousand years before the people of Lot were destroyed (circa 1953 BCE).
Homosexuality is DEFINED as attraction to the same gender. This attraction need not be acted on for an individual to be homosexual. In the same way that a "straight" person does not have to be sexually active to be straight, a homosexual person does not have to sexually active to be homosexual. An individual does not have much choice in the matter as to what sexually attracts them.
226 GOD does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say "What does GOD intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.
Homosexuality has been found in ALL known species that reproduce sexually--and yes, this includes mosquitos.
This topic has been discussed at length in previous threads
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601872.msg269936#msg269936
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605571.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603761.msg296560#msg296560
Here are some other links
http//www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx
http//www.biolbull.org/content/149/2/365.short
http//rierc.org/social/paper162.pdf
http//news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http//www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X
In any case, a person can be LBGT and follow the Deen...even though the "haters gonna hate."
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Some people are just hateful I guess, and I wonder if they think hate and discrimination are godly values?
They'll concoct while theories from their thousand and one sources. Then, they'll throw some random Quran verses in that bare no relevance. Some people are just hypocrites.
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Salaam,
The primary crime of the people of Lut was that they forced people into having sex and apparently robbed travelers on the highway. I think the homosexuality in that case was the least sinful one if at all. However, the story saya that they prefer men over their women and it depends on how you interpret that.
God bless you
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Peace all,
It says they preferred men over women, but in the case of gay people, can that really be helped? Not if gay people don't choose to be attracted to the same sex, and not the opposite. Its not really a matter of liking both even and choosing to like men better.
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Gay or homosexuality is sexual gratification from the same sex. It starts from the border line between childhood and adolescence, until adulteration is completed i.e. when we reach adulthood. The borderline between childhood and adolescence is the stage when the habit of masturbation is invented as the most gratifying discovery when a boy touches his own genital organ; and when a female touches her own genital organ; here starts male to male; and female to female sensual affinities - the mental growth of gay sexual aberration is seeded here. None is exempt from this globally pandemic, genetic, genital disorder. These are truly homo-sapiens.
Except for Allah, Who shall bring forth the pristine life from the dead and decayed, it is impossible for the humanity as a whole to become free of this sensuality which is punitively offensive to the sensibilities of one's mental calibre. Only when our masturbation tendency weans away, we shall become aware of our distinguishing and discerning abilities. This is the reward from Allah, awaiting one and all.
Instead of justifying this mental dysfunction through debate as normal physiological activity, we can be prayerful or Wishfully obeying the Will of Allah and put our Trust in Him with the prayer
O God of the worlds;
Save us from the sensualities.
Elevate us from the ritual debates;
And make our minds surrender to Your Will -
Raise us in Honour and Enlightenment,
With all praise to Your ordainment.
That perhaps You might raise us -
To the Throne; as we submit
To You alone; us, as You acquit.Salam
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I don't think you've really demonstrated the Quran is against specifically homosexuality
Salam
Why should I demonstrate the Qur'an is against specifically homosexuality? hmm
The issue is why he is a Muslim?
Without being too controversial, I wanted to ask if a person can be gay and Muslim?
The above is your question on this thread and the issue I'm referring to. (refer here and here)
Therefore, I have given the ayats from the Qur'an (refer here) on the issue of why he is not a Muslim and if one to make a conclusion in the opposition, then it is better to refer an ayat from the Qur'an rather than making a conclusion from what he feels are the right things to say.
Secondly,
there are things like gang violence associated with the actual Quranic sin. I'd hope no one would suggest homosexuals are all violent rapists.
The issue is not whether sodomy is equal to violent rapists. )
and as I said...
Between individuals (vs. state powers), it might have some truth in it and its up to the person to commit the "Al-Fahishah" or not..
Allah say..
Say, "Enjoy Yourselves! (1430)
and
O you who have believed
upon you is yourselves
(5105)Thirdly,
You can think as you wish I suppose, and may God decide all disputes. )
So true.. therefore where is the ayat from the Qur'an to support the conclusion that he is a Muslim?
Where is the ayat to support the conclusion that there is a provision for "Gay Muslim" in the Qur'an?
Where is the ayat to support the conclusion that reading the Qur'an would make us believe that Islam support gayism and homosexuality? yes
And in anything over which you disagree
its ruling is to Allah <- ie. an ayat from the Qur'an
, "That is Allah , my Lord
upon Him I have relied
and to Him I turn back."
(4210)And (remember) Lout (Lot), when he said to his people
You commit Al-Fahishah (sodomy the worst sin)
which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns).
Verily, you do sodomy with men, and... <- comparison (1732)
(2929)Peace peace
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What is a Muslim?
Then I hope to hear your comment on this
And DO NOT eat of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned
and that is most surely a transgression
and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their friends that they should contend with you
and if you obey them, you (Muhammad) shall most surely be polytheists. (6121)For a simple reason of eating of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned
Even the Prophet would become associator, ie. not a Muslim
Despite the syahadah, salat, fasting, zakat and sadaqah, hajj, jihad etc.......
Prophet Muhammad will not be a Muslim if disobey the "DO NOT" prohibition (breach of contract).Now the question....
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Can we claim more privilege than the Prophet?
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Can you prove that we are allowed to ignore the "DO NOT" prohibition
and still entitle to call ourselves a Muslim?
Rational
None dispute concerning the communications of Allah but those who disbelieve
(404)Such has been the course of Allah that has indeed run before
and you shall not find a change in Allah's course
(4823)Impossible for people who i'tiqad to disobey Allah to be a Muslim and enter Paradise.
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Gay or homosexuality is sexual gratification from the same sex. It starts from the border line between childhood and adolescence, until adulteration is completed i.e. when we reach adulthood. The borderline between childhood and adolescence is the stage when the habit of masturbation is invented as the most gratifying discovery when a boy touches his own genital organ; and when a female touches her own genital organ; here starts male to male; and female to female sensual affinities - the mental growth of gay sexual aberration is seeded here.
So True
None is exempt from this globally pandemic, genetic, genital disorder. These are truly homo-sapiens.
Except for Allah, Who shall bring forth the pristine life from the dead and decayed, it is impossible for the humanity as a whole to become free of this sensuality which is punitively offensive to the sensibilities of one's mental calibre. Only when our masturbation tendency weans away, we shall become aware of our distinguishing and discerning abilities. This is the reward from Allah, awaiting one and all.
Instead of justifying this mental dysfunction through debate as normal physiological activity, we can be prayerful or Wishfully obeying the Will of Allah and put our Trust in Him with the prayer
O God of the worlds;
Save us from the sensualities.
Elevate us from the ritual debates;
And make our minds surrender to Your Will -
Raise us in Honour and Enlightenment,
With all praise to Your ordainment.
That perhaps You might raise us -
To the Throne; as we submit
To You alone; us, as You acquit.Salam
Just to remind and it is worthwhile to add to the above prayer,
O God,
Show us and our generations to come,
the manifested evidence as you have shown to Yusuf,
and make us firm believer,
so as to avoid, from evil and lewdness.1224 And certainly she made for him, and he Yusuf would have made for her, were it not that he had seen the manifest evidence of his Lord; thus averted from him evil and lewdness, surely he was one of Our sincere servants.