Why I think GOD-alone islam must be spread and disseminated.

diamantinehoneybunch

Peace everyone!

Sorry for the lengthy post.

I don't give much damn about what anti-muslims say about islam, Qur'an and Mohammed anymore. Let they say what they want as long as they don't bully, abuse or murder muslims just for being muslims (no matter either islam or traditional Hislam).

But what I can't stand is how people who call themselves 'muslims' understand islam.

I can't stand these cr4ps that actually have no place in real islam

I am sick of the Sunni 'divorce pronouncement' being considered and believed as part of real islamic way of divorce. This has nothing to do with islam. It is just bid3ah (innovation) as the Shia mut3ah. The right to pronounce the divorce pronouncement is only given to husbands. If a husband just says to his wife "I divorce you" once or "I divorce you by 1st divorce" on the spot (or I have heard from various Sunni priests that divorce pronouncement is also valid using SMS, letter etc), it is equal to the husband has divorced the wife once. Well, just pronounce the divorce pronouncement. Divorce is so easy hell yeah (according to Sunnism only!) If a husband says to his wife "I divorce you" thrice (or more) or "I divorce you by 3rd divorce" on the spot, even though the husband has never divorced his wife, the pronouncement is equivalent to divorcing 3 times. Well just pronouncing the divorce pronouncement. According to Qur'an, a man can no longer marry a woman whom he has divorced three times unless the woman has married another man. However this has nothing to do with what the Sunnis call 'divorce pronouncement'. But according to Sunnism, just by saying it 3 times, the man can no longer marry the poor woman unless the woman has married another man.
I am sick of dogs being considered forbidden in islam by traditional / sectarian muslims and by other people. Nowhere in the Qur'an does it say dogs are forbidden. Not even a dog's saliva or wet dogs. Many muslims around me feel like they want dogs but since dogs are considered forbidden to be kept in houses according to sectarian 'islam', they don't keep dogs.
I am sick of the head-covering being misunderstood as compulsory in islam. Oh please we have already discussed it for a countless times. Khumur (plural of khimar / khimir) can be anything that cover. In verse 2431 (which is often considered as compulsion of wearing headscarves for women by traditional muslims), it just tells women to keep-covered their private parts, strike their khumur over their chests and don't display their beauty accept what are ordinary to appear. How can hair be 'extraordinary to appear'? Some traditionists make apologies by saying that the head-coverings are to protect women from rape or harassment. What does head, hear, neck and ears have to do with rape? They also use this rape argument to justify burqa, chador, abaya with lose headscarves, niqab etc. Women are also attracted to men's handsome face! Women can also be crazy over hot men such as celebrities. Is it rational to oblige the hot men to wear male burqa? No.
"Hijab is the sign of modesty". Modesty? The hijab in the slogan refers to headscarf. Even if a woman 'dresses' like Miley Cyrus in Wrecking Ball, by wearing a headscarf, she has been modest? nope
P/S I am also against exploiting women to get naked or wear sl*tty clothes.
I am sick of the "free to embrace islam, death to apostates" law. Nowhere does the Qur'an say that apostates must be killed because their bloods are halal (lawful). Qur'an just states no compulsion in religion and "to you is your religion, to me is mine". Muslims in general are so happy when a former non-Muslim becomes a Muslim (by embracing their sect) but they are angry at ex-Muslims. Some people actually leave islam because of the cr4ps that are considered as parts of islam which I am writing. Please read from A to Z D
I am sick of the MYTH 72 round-breasted virgins in Paradise (they call it Jannatul Firdaus as far as I know) being considered part of islam and real translation of some verses in Qur'an. Only the so-called The 6 Authentic Books teach this nonsense.
I am sick of Islam is being known as having four wives at once is encouraged
I am sick of the minimum age of marriage in islam is misunderstood as anytime after puberty. Ever heard of precocious puberty? Puberty that reaches at very unsually young age such as 4 years old (For proof just search Lina Medina, the youngest mother ever recorded) How can Sunnis (especially and mostly Salafis) say that little kids are eligible for marriage?
I am sick of "women cannot become leaders because they will make the country chaotic". Yes! Sunnism teaches this.
am sick of "wives must obey everythig their husbands command". Which many people think that it is what islam is about. Qur'an states they women and men are equal! The so-called The Authentic Six says that women are mentally deficient compared to men, lower in status in religion compared to men. I am sick of the hadiths saying that the majority of hell dwellers are women. These hadiths are so famous in my area.

Sunnis are so over-confident when debating or bashing Shia but their teachings are actually worse than Shia in some aspects (i.e. women's dignity'
I live very adjacent to my local mosque. A few days ago, I heard Sunni clergymen bashing Shia. One of his argument was "Shi'ites say that the Qur'an is not complete. The Qur'an is complete". Wow! Hypocrisy of Sunnis! Anyway they themselves say people who reject the Sunna 'apostates', 'infidels' The clergymen also idolized Mohammed by saying that "No humans are like him, his characters, miracles, physicals. They (Shi'ites) have paintings of Mohammed!" He also bashed Shia for shirk by he didn't realize that putting Mohammed beside GOD is also shirk.

Please don't think that I am defending Shia but since it has often been exposed, bashed etc, as an ex-Sunni, let me expose the false teachings of Sunnism!

The so-called Muslims get angry when movies like Innocence of Muslims (which I am pretty sure is mostly based on hadiths) are made but they are so mean when people embrace islam based on GOD alone and reject hadiths as compulsory to follow for muslims. What the fish?

Anyway the main reason is I am sick of islam being misused by traditional High Priests of Islam to oppress people.

This is what I can write on this thread. I have more reasons why GOD-alone islam should be spread and disseminated.

May Peace be with you,
Regards,
Yuliana

good_logic

Peace Yuliana,

Let s start with a story

There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known.

And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic.

All these happened at a time when the Islamic Evangelists did not gain the momentum to establish mastery over the Qoranic verses and portraying the Qoran as having been endowed with hidden miracles and not the simple message as it reads.

Regrettably, the decline of Islamic glory crept in when the Ulemas declared that none but they were the ones to give its true interpretations.
What Went Wrong', Bernard Lewis, an eminent scholar of the Princeton University, examines the legacy of Islam and writes "For many centuries, the world of Islam was in the forefront of human achievement - the foremost military and economic power in the world, the leader in the arts and sciences of civilization..... And then everything changed..... "Who did this to us?' is of course a common human response when things are going badly, and there have been indeed many in the Middle East, past and present, who have asked this question".

As the educated and enlightened Muslims never bothered to take the leadership in the religion, the Mullahs faced no rival in challenging their interpretation, marinated with their own recipe and shaped Islam to fit their personal needs just as the Popes did in Christendom. Over the years, their unchallenged interpretations got ingrained in the religious belief and kept passing from generations to generations.

Misrepresented by the ill-educated and self-centred Mullahs, misinterpreting the message of the Koran, the Muslims are perceived as backward peoples today with nothing to offer to the rest of the world.

Now ,the only way forward is to try and embrace the message of the Qoran again by" detoxing" our mind from all the garbage of the " Mullahs", look properly at " How each one of us" should live/behave/correct... According to the message from our creator.

Peace to you.

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

"No humans are like him, his characters, miracles, physicals. They (Shi'ites) have paintings of Mohammed!"

This is wrong. Shia Muslims are quite strict not to have any paintings at all of Muhammad and also their so-called holy Imams which heads they censor with a bright aura of light instead of the head.

God bless you

unknownuser

I agree most of entirely of your points, but the last one (point 9).

665 "May Lord if He divorced you that He will replace (the) wives which better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient ().

for the point 8, I'm still in doubt.I'm confused for what is the proper translation of in 434??

I have some qamus (dictionaries), and this is the translation of -support
-protector
-leader

came from qaw-waw-mim and more known as and its another means pondation, constitution, main element.

Anyone can help??

Peace

good_logic

Peace Earthdom.

Another word that could be used for " "is " Responsible".

God knew that -men would abuse women- more than the other way around!

He is reminding the men to be responsible and treat the women fairly and for women to reciprocate that fairness.

I repeat,God knew that men will abuse women, He named sura 4 " Women -Al-Nisa-"
This title indicates that it aims at defending the women's rights. Any interpretation must favour the women's rights, not the other way around.

Peace to you.

diamantinehoneybunch

I agree most of entirely of your points, but the last one (point 9).

665 "May Lord if He divorced you that He will replace (the) wives which better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient ().

for the point 8, I'm still in doubt.I'm confused for what is the proper translation of in 434??

I have some qamus (dictionaries), and this is the translation of -support
-protector
-leader

came from qaw-waw-mim and more known as and its another means pondation, constitution, main element.

Anyone can help??

Peace

Peace Earthdom,

Unfortunately you used traditional translation. The verse has nothing do with being slaves of husbands but it is being submitting, devoting, worshipping GOD. How can wives worship their husbands?

665 It may be that he would divorce you, then his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submitting, believing, dutiful, repentant, worshipping, devout, mature and youthful.

And remember Queen of Sheba / Saba'?

Regards,
Yuliana

unknownuser

Another word that could be used for " "is " Responsible".

This is tafseer not the literal meaning.

Btw that word also means physique or body posture, some of translator also translate that word as more strong.This is the difficulty of semitic language and that word actually have pre-medieval character.

Peace Earthdom,

Unfortunately you used traditional translation. The verse has nothing do with being slaves of husbands but it is being submitting, devoting, worshipping GOD. How can wives worship their husbands?

665 It may be that he would divorce you, then his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submitting, believing, dutiful, repentant, worshipping, devout, mature and youthful.

And remember Queen of Sheba / Saba'?

Regards,
Yuliana

I didn't use traditional translation Yuliana.I have some Arabic dictionaries both classical and modern, and I never found if qaanitat= dutiful.
But if you have one, show me then I will change my perception.

Saba's Queen ruled before she embrance Abraham monotheist.

Peace

diamantinehoneybunch

This is tafseer not the literal meaning.

Btw that word also means physique or body posture, some of translator also translate that word as more strong.This is the difficulty of semitic language and that word actually have pre-medieval character.

I didn't use traditional translation Yuliana.I have some Arabic dictionaries both classical and modern, and I never found if qaanitat= dutiful.
But if you have one, show me then I will change my perception.

Saba's Queen ruled before she embrance Abraham monotheist.

Peace

Peace,

So we can conclude that even in true islam based on Quran alone, women are always lower than men?
In verse 665, do you think that women must WORSHIP husbands? Just because one word.is mistranslated in the verse according to you, the whole translation of the verse is wrong and your argument that women must be submissive to husbands is right? What about worshipping, devout etc? Since according to you wives must be submissive to husbands because of your understanding of this verse, good wives must also be worshipping and devout to their husbands according to you?

Do you know what does submission to people is like? How women in Pakhtunkhwa region of Pakistan-Afghanistan SUBMIT to their husbands is what being submissive to people is like. In traditional islam (esp Sunnism because I learn Sunnism at school), wives must do everything their husbands command and avoid doing everything their husbands forbid them to do whilst husbands have right to do everything they want.

Doesn't the Qur'an say that Queen of Sheba was a good ruler so what kind of chaos do women bring when they are rulers? What does her faith has to do with her leadership? So just because she was a ruler before she embraced Abrahamic Monotheism, leadership by women is also forbidden just like idolatry?

And why do you use verse 434 to prove that women cannot be leaders of countries? The verse talks about men are maintainers / protecters / leaders (or any other translation you prefer)" so what does the phrase have anything to do with leadership of lands?
If you want to use this verse to disallow or prohibit women from being leaders, then that means all men in a country must be presidents / kings while women must be regular citizens. Hmmmmmmmm.

bookish

I can't stand these cr4ps that actually have no place in real islam

I agree with you brother. What also bothers me is that there are many non-Muslims out there who could really benefit from the message of God alone...but are put off by anything related to Islam...all due to the works of traditional muslims...and the backwardness of muslim countries.

I gave the Free Minds Koran to a Hindu friend recently and he converted. I gave a FM links to my colleague to read...and he got very interested...people really need to be told that Islam is far different from what they perceive Islam to be...

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

Yes many people are put off by traditional religions and I was one of them, but thanks to my own philosophies regarding creation I was led unto the right path anyway. What needs to be done is to show the world what the true nature of God (the Force) is! God is not a neanderthal god that needs to be pleased with various strange rituals and sacrifices much like the polytheists do. God is alive!

God bless you

unknownuser

Salam

So we can conclude that even in true islam based on Quran alone, women are always lower than men?
In verse 665, do you think that women must WORSHIP husbands? Just because one word.is mistranslated in the verse according to you, the whole translation of the verse is wrong and your argument that women must be submissive to husbands is right? What about worshipping, devout etc? Since according to you wives must be submissive to husbands because of your understanding of this verse, good wives must also be worshipping and devout to their husbands according to you?

Do you know what does submission to people is like? How women in Pakhtunkhwa region of Pakistan-Afghanistan SUBMIT to their husbands is what being submissive to people is like. In traditional islam (esp Sunnism because I learn Sunnism at school), wives must do everything their husbands command and avoid doing everything their husbands forbid them to do whilst husbands have right to do everything they want.

Salam Yuliana.

Note I'm Earthdom but different Earthdom who talk to you before. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605941.msg340463#msg340463
But I still one word with him.

-First How do you define submission?? What parameter of submission according to you??
-From where you know the condition in Pkhtunkhwa?? from internet or proper research??

Doesn't the Qur'an say that Queen of Sheba was a good ruler so what kind of chaos do women bring when they are rulers? What does her faith has to do with her leadership? So just because she was a ruler before she embraced Abrahamic Monotheism, leadership by women is also forbidden just like idolatry?

And why do you use verse 434 to prove that women cannot be leaders of countries? The verse talks about men are maintainers / protecters / leaders (or any other translation you prefer)" so what does the phrase have anything to do with leadership of lands?
If you want to use this verse to disallow or prohibit women from being leaders, then that means all men in a country must be presidents / kings while women must be regular citizens. Hmmmmmmmm.

No offense but why you responding like this to my friend?? (Maybe it's one of the the reason he leave)
Your post didn't actually responded my friend's, but debate him while he asking question.

unknownuser

-First How do you define submission?? What parameter of submission according to you??
-From where you know the condition in Pkhtunkhwa?? from internet or proper research??

Sorry misswrote.

How do yo define "worship husband"? What parameter for a wive, so she can be labeled as worship?

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

Glad you are still around Earthdom. Mind my blunt friends will you?

God bless you