Why I think GOD-alone islam must be spread and disseminated.
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Peace Yuliana,
Let s start with a story
There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known.
And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic.
All these happened at a time when the Islamic Evangelists did not gain the momentum to establish mastery over the Qoranic verses and portraying the Qoran as having been endowed with hidden miracles and not the simple message as it reads.
Regrettably, the decline of Islamic glory crept in when the Ulemas declared that none but they were the ones to give its true interpretations.
What Went Wrong', Bernard Lewis, an eminent scholar of the Princeton University, examines the legacy of Islam and writes "For many centuries, the world of Islam was in the forefront of human achievement - the foremost military and economic power in the world, the leader in the arts and sciences of civilization..... And then everything changed..... "Who did this to us?' is of course a common human response when things are going badly, and there have been indeed many in the Middle East, past and present, who have asked this question".As the educated and enlightened Muslims never bothered to take the leadership in the religion, the Mullahs faced no rival in challenging their interpretation, marinated with their own recipe and shaped Islam to fit their personal needs just as the Popes did in Christendom. Over the years, their unchallenged interpretations got ingrained in the religious belief and kept passing from generations to generations.
Misrepresented by the ill-educated and self-centred Mullahs, misinterpreting the message of the Koran, the Muslims are perceived as backward peoples today with nothing to offer to the rest of the world.
Now ,the only way forward is to try and embrace the message of the Qoran again by" detoxing" our mind from all the garbage of the " Mullahs", look properly at " How each one of us" should live/behave/correct... According to the message from our creator.
Peace to you.
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Salaam,
"No humans are like him, his characters, miracles, physicals. They (Shi'ites) have paintings of Mohammed!"
This is wrong. Shia Muslims are quite strict not to have any paintings at all of Muhammad and also their so-called holy Imams which heads they censor with a bright aura of light instead of the head.
God bless you
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I agree most of entirely of your points, but the last one (point 9).
665 "May Lord if He divorced you that He will replace (the) wives which better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient ().
for the point 8, I'm still in doubt.I'm confused for what is the proper translation of in 434??
I have some qamus (dictionaries), and this is the translation of -support
-protector
-leadercame from qaw-waw-mim and more known as and its another means pondation, constitution, main element.
Anyone can help??
Peace
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Peace Earthdom.
Another word that could be used for " "is " Responsible".
God knew that -men would abuse women- more than the other way around!
He is reminding the men to be responsible and treat the women fairly and for women to reciprocate that fairness.
I repeat,God knew that men will abuse women, He named sura 4 " Women -Al-Nisa-"
This title indicates that it aims at defending the women's rights. Any interpretation must favour the women's rights, not the other way around.Peace to you.
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I agree most of entirely of your points, but the last one (point 9).
665 "May Lord if He divorced you that He will replace (the) wives which better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient ().
for the point 8, I'm still in doubt.I'm confused for what is the proper translation of in 434??
I have some qamus (dictionaries), and this is the translation of -support
-protector
-leadercame from qaw-waw-mim and more known as and its another means pondation, constitution, main element.
Anyone can help??
Peace
Peace Earthdom,
Unfortunately you used traditional translation. The verse has nothing do with being slaves of husbands but it is being submitting, devoting, worshipping GOD. How can wives worship their husbands?
665 It may be that he would divorce you, then his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submitting, believing, dutiful, repentant, worshipping, devout, mature and youthful.
And remember Queen of Sheba / Saba'?
Regards,
Yuliana -
Another word that could be used for " "is " Responsible".
This is tafseer not the literal meaning.
Btw that word also means physique or body posture, some of translator also translate that word as more strong.This is the difficulty of semitic language and that word actually have pre-medieval character.
Peace Earthdom,
Unfortunately you used traditional translation. The verse has nothing do with being slaves of husbands but it is being submitting, devoting, worshipping GOD. How can wives worship their husbands?
665 It may be that he would divorce you, then his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submitting, believing, dutiful, repentant, worshipping, devout, mature and youthful.
And remember Queen of Sheba / Saba'?
Regards,
YulianaI didn't use traditional translation Yuliana.I have some Arabic dictionaries both classical and modern, and I never found if qaanitat= dutiful.
But if you have one, show me then I will change my perception.Saba's Queen ruled before she embrance Abraham monotheist.
Peace
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This is tafseer not the literal meaning.
Btw that word also means physique or body posture, some of translator also translate that word as more strong.This is the difficulty of semitic language and that word actually have pre-medieval character.
I didn't use traditional translation Yuliana.I have some Arabic dictionaries both classical and modern, and I never found if qaanitat= dutiful.
But if you have one, show me then I will change my perception.Saba's Queen ruled before she embrance Abraham monotheist.
Peace
Peace,
So we can conclude that even in true islam based on Quran alone, women are always lower than men?
In verse 665, do you think that women must WORSHIP husbands? Just because one word.is mistranslated in the verse according to you, the whole translation of the verse is wrong and your argument that women must be submissive to husbands is right? What about worshipping, devout etc? Since according to you wives must be submissive to husbands because of your understanding of this verse, good wives must also be worshipping and devout to their husbands according to you?Do you know what does submission to people is like? How women in Pakhtunkhwa region of Pakistan-Afghanistan SUBMIT to their husbands is what being submissive to people is like. In traditional islam (esp Sunnism because I learn Sunnism at school), wives must do everything their husbands command and avoid doing everything their husbands forbid them to do whilst husbands have right to do everything they want.
Doesn't the Qur'an say that Queen of Sheba was a good ruler so what kind of chaos do women bring when they are rulers? What does her faith has to do with her leadership? So just because she was a ruler before she embraced Abrahamic Monotheism, leadership by women is also forbidden just like idolatry?
And why do you use verse 434 to prove that women cannot be leaders of countries? The verse talks about men are maintainers / protecters / leaders (or any other translation you prefer)" so what does the phrase have anything to do with leadership of lands?
If you want to use this verse to disallow or prohibit women from being leaders, then that means all men in a country must be presidents / kings while women must be regular citizens. Hmmmmmmmm. -
I can't stand these cr4ps that actually have no place in real islam
I agree with you brother. What also bothers me is that there are many non-Muslims out there who could really benefit from the message of God alone...but are put off by anything related to Islam...all due to the works of traditional muslims...and the backwardness of muslim countries.
I gave the Free Minds Koran to a Hindu friend recently and he converted. I gave a FM links to my colleague to read...and he got very interested...people really need to be told that Islam is far different from what they perceive Islam to be...
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Salaam,
Yes many people are put off by traditional religions and I was one of them, but thanks to my own philosophies regarding creation I was led unto the right path anyway. What needs to be done is to show the world what the true nature of God (the Force) is! God is not a neanderthal god that needs to be pleased with various strange rituals and sacrifices much like the polytheists do. God is alive!
God bless you
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Salam
So we can conclude that even in true islam based on Quran alone, women are always lower than men?
In verse 665, do you think that women must WORSHIP husbands? Just because one word.is mistranslated in the verse according to you, the whole translation of the verse is wrong and your argument that women must be submissive to husbands is right? What about worshipping, devout etc? Since according to you wives must be submissive to husbands because of your understanding of this verse, good wives must also be worshipping and devout to their husbands according to you?Do you know what does submission to people is like? How women in Pakhtunkhwa region of Pakistan-Afghanistan SUBMIT to their husbands is what being submissive to people is like. In traditional islam (esp Sunnism because I learn Sunnism at school), wives must do everything their husbands command and avoid doing everything their husbands forbid them to do whilst husbands have right to do everything they want.
Salam Yuliana.
Note I'm Earthdom but different Earthdom who talk to you before. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605941.msg340463#msg340463
But I still one word with him.-First How do you define submission?? What parameter of submission according to you??
-From where you know the condition in Pkhtunkhwa?? from internet or proper research??Doesn't the Qur'an say that Queen of Sheba was a good ruler so what kind of chaos do women bring when they are rulers? What does her faith has to do with her leadership? So just because she was a ruler before she embraced Abrahamic Monotheism, leadership by women is also forbidden just like idolatry?
And why do you use verse 434 to prove that women cannot be leaders of countries? The verse talks about men are maintainers / protecters / leaders (or any other translation you prefer)" so what does the phrase have anything to do with leadership of lands?
If you want to use this verse to disallow or prohibit women from being leaders, then that means all men in a country must be presidents / kings while women must be regular citizens. Hmmmmmmmm.No offense but why you responding like this to my friend?? (Maybe it's one of the the reason he leave)
Your post didn't actually responded my friend's, but debate him while he asking question. -
-First How do you define submission?? What parameter of submission according to you??
-From where you know the condition in Pkhtunkhwa?? from internet or proper research??Sorry misswrote.
- How do yo define "worship husband"? What parameter for a wive, so she can be labeled as worship?
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Salaam,
Glad you are still around Earthdom. Mind my blunt friends will you?
God bless you