Gay and Muslim?

unknownuser

Further, how can you ask me "direct what"? confused

This is our main issue (from here)

I think I already respond what's "mate".Tetapi bapak muter2 terus

Ini bapak yang baik hati, ente baca lagi yaa http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341097#msg341097

Kalau gak ngerti tanya, jangan menanyakan pertanyaan yang sama terus.

Peace

muslims

I think I already respond what's "mate".Tetapi bapak muter2 terus

Ini bapak yang baik hati, ente baca lagi yaa http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341097#msg341097

Kalau gak ngerti tanya, jangan menanyakan pertanyaan yang sama terus.

Peace

Salam

Where is your answer to the following issues relating to self contradicting Qur'an?

How many times I have to ask you, and how many times you want to deny this?

These are my questions or issues from your interpretation on "wives/spouses" or "mates" self contradictions

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341112#msg341112
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341117#msg341117
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341120#msg341120

The self contradictions from your interpretation of the word "mates"..

How about sexual intercourse with animals?

Can human beings make sexual intercourse with chickens? birds? goats? cows? cats?
(Warning!! please buy health insurance to cover costs of surgery before involving with any of these animals, especially cats! I disclaim any responsibility for any wrongful or ridiculous advice from any members in this forum! ;D )

Is it faahisyah?

Allah did not mention it in the Qur'an, and people can declare it as their "mates" to escape any prohibitions, or even human laws (defence of lawful religious practices etc.).

Is this your logic? confused

Of course it is self contradicting, how can you say "Allah is allowing sexual intercourse between same sex", and at the same time it is a "transgression"? Did Allah mistakenly told the story or say something which is futility in His Book?

In fact, we don't need rules relating to marriages.

We just need "mates", same gender or else; ie. may also include animals etc, as long it is "mates".

How hard for you to understand this simple logic?

(from here)

No, I'm not ignoring your answer and yet, I mentioned how a "forumer" is better qualified and could reject all major translations in this world as being incorrect, in that particular verse.

Further, you are not answering my question, but diverting it to other issues.

Now, do you realize your conclusion that "mates" can be of the same sex (or different sex) means all the rules in "the Qur'an is now self-contradicting"?

All the rules relating to sexual prohibitions in the Qur'an is meaningless?

These rules? (refer here)

Including the rules that say homosexual is a transgression? (ie. the Qur'an is now self contradicting)

In fact, we don't need rules relating to marriages.

Is this your logic?

A self-contradicting Qur'an?

Do you understand what is being asked here?

Peace

unknownuser

Salam

Where is your answer to the following issues?

How many times I have to ask you, and how many times you want to deny this?

Peace

How strange you are?

All of your questions is still same, you didn't understand what's the meaning of "mate" in the Quran.
You keep give Alkitab's post, while I already make refutation against him.

Please if you don't understand my post, which part?? I will re-explain again.

AND I WILL NOT RESPOND YOUR ANIMAL SEX, INDEED IT"S OFF TOPIC

muslims

Salam

Read again, it has been so many times you have failed to understand what you read and making false claims.

I already told you if 235-6 is not about marriage, but guard private parts from mate (mate can be same-sex gender).

This what you decide "Homosexuals "can use" their private parts to "anyone" (ie. same-sex marriage, etc.)"

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341124#msg341124

This is our secondary issue Whether the word is referring to "wives/spouses" or "mates", which you say it is "mates" and shall include permission for sexual intercourse between the same gender.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341106#msg341106

List of translations that say the word is "wives/spouses"

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341043#msg341043

Peace

muslims

AND I WILL NOT RESPOND YOUR ANIMAL SEX, INDEED IT"S OFF TOPIC

Salam

No it is not (refer here), Allah is speaking about "private parts", and it is either you use it

to your wife (woman, marriage); OR
to any other than your wife, ie. the word "except"; ie. to "anyone" (refer here), including animals.. since you are denying about "marriage" and mentioning about "mates"

Therefore and according to your argument, if "mates" can be interpreted as "sexual intercourse with same gender", then it must also include sex with animals, as long it is "mates". This is so since you are rejecting the element of "marriage" and "wives" from the ayat.

Why? You are now confused with your own logic? ;D

Rule relating to reasoning..

And the example of a bad word
is like a bad tree
uprooted from the surface of the earth
not having any stability
(1426)

Peace

unknownuser

Oh God.What happen to yu?

As I said MATE IN THE QURAN IS NEUTRAL IN GENDER

Verses about "guard private part" is 235-6

23.5 And who () keep covered their private parts.
23.6 Except around their mates (), or those who are maintained by their oaths, they are free from blame.

The blue word is allazi mean which, who, whom, whose and this is masculine.
The red word is azwaj or zawaj, means mate (mate can be husband or wife) and interestingly the red word is also masculine!!

This means this verse is neutral in gender and translations you used is a distortion one.
And verse 7029-31 is a repetation of 235-6.

The subject of verse 235 is allazi (masculine in gender), interestingly mate/spouse in 236 is also (masculine in gender).

SO HOW YU STILL JUDGE IF MATE IN 236 IS WIFE, MY BROTHER

Peace

muslims

Oh God.What happen to yu?

As I said MATE IN THE QURAN IS NEUTRAL IN GENDER

The subject of verse 235 is allazi (masculine in gender), interestingly mate/spouse in 236 is also (masculine in gender).

SO HOW YU STILL JUDGE IF MATE IN 236 IS WIFE, MY BROTHER

Peace

Salam

It doesn't matter, the important point is you are denying the word is related to "marriage", ie. you are denying the interpretation as "wives/spouses".

Therefore, if it is "wife/spouse", then it is referring to "marriage".

If "mates", then it is referring to "anyone or non marriages".

ie. men and women, men and men, women and women, men and animals, women and animals etc... as long it is "mates", and not necessarily "marriages", but may also include "same sex marriage"

Is this what you agree? Read again.

This what you decide "Homosexuals "can use" their private parts to "anyone" (ie. same-sex marriage, etc.)"

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341124#msg341124

Differences

And those who guard their private parts <- ALL human beings have private parts (+homosexual)
Except from their wives/spouses <- I say referring to marriages
or those their right hands possess
for indeed, they are not to be blamed
But whoever seeks beyond that
then they are the transgressors
(7029-31)

your translation

And those who guard their private parts
Except from their mates <- You say not referring marriages, ANYONE!
or those their right hands possess
for indeed, they are not to be blamed
But whoever seeks beyond that
then they are the transgressors
(7029-31)

different translations wives or spouses

(refer here)

Peace

unknownuser

Your lack is too hasty for make generalization.

Then you accuse me for mate can be animal, hence you're out of context.

Please use common sense, what I mean mate is spouse of course

muslims

I mean mate is spouse of course

Salam

So you did mean it as "spouse"!!!

Definition of "spouse"

spouse (spous, spouz)
n.
A marriage partner; a husband or wife.
tr.v. (spouz, spous) spoused, spous?ing, spous?es Archaic
To marry; wed.

http//www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spouse
http//www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/spouse
http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/spouse
http//www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/spouse

The spouse is a marriage partner, a husband or wife. The word spouses are an inference for "marriages" and is according to the Qur'an.

comparison; "mates", which can also mean other than marriages, and as long they can fit each other.
http//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/mate_1
http//www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/mate
http//www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mate
http//www.thefreedictionary.com/mate
http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/mate

Therefore and if you are referring it to "spouses", then it must mean "marriages"!

Therefore, it must also mean different sex or gender; ie. husband and wife, and because there is no such thing as "same-sex marriage" in the Qur'an. You have said it, "Yes marriage in Quran is about husband and wive".

Therefore, Allah is only allowing marriages in (235-6) or (7029-31), and prohibit every other than marriages (refer here), including homosexuality.

Can we agree on this?

Otherwise, they can use their "private parts" to anyone, including animals!

Therefore your answer is B; ie. "Homosexuals "can use" their private parts to "anyone" (ie. same-sex marriage, etc.)"

and the Qur'an will be self contradicting...

These are my questions or issues from your interpretation on "wives/spouses" or "mates" self contradictions

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341112#msg341112
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341117#msg341117
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg341120#msg341120

See how you get caught with your so-called wisdom and clear thinking? ;D

what I mean mate is spouse of course

Yes marriage in Quran is about husband and wive

I already told you if 235-6 is not about marriage

Peace

unknownuser

All of your posts, just merely out of context.You only used logic, logic n logic withouth see context.

See how you get caught with your so-called wisdom and clear thinking? ;D

Quote from Earthdom on Yesterday at 104821 pm
what I mean mate is spouse of course

Quote from Earthdom on Yesterday at 053748 pm
Yes marriage in Quran is about husband and wive

Quote from Earthdom on Yesterday at 053748 pm
I already told you if 235-6 is not about marriage

This is one of your lack.You quoted someone arguments and do out of contex
You create premis by quoted my posts.Three of them has no relation at all and each sentence talking about different conteks.

This is you who very pride to your logic science and misunderstood someone post mostly.
You also play rolling yourself in your posts.

Ok I think I must stop get discussion with you in this thread, coz the discussion will no ending.

Peace

muslims

Salam

Do you mean "spouses" or not?

You want to change what you have just said right now?

Fine.. what is it now? yes

I mean mate is spouse of course

http//www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spouse
http//www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/spouse
http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/spouse
http//www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/spouse

Peace

unknownuser

Salam

Do you mean "spouses" or not?

You want to change what you have just said right now?

Fine.. what is it now? yes

Peace

Since start you just merely out of contexs.You never understand what I said.You don't understand in what situation I say "spouse".

muslims

Since start you just merely out of contexs.You never understand what I said.You don't understand in what situation I say "spouse".

Salam

Do you understand what is "spouse"?

and do you mean it to say "spouse"?

Peace

unknownuser

Salam

Do you understand what is "spouse"?

Peace

Of course, I know.I never confusing "spouse" in english, but this just u brother.

muslims

Of course, I know.I never confusing "spouse" in english, but this just u brother.

Salam

Here are the links, quote one dictionary that says "spouses" is not referring to "marriages"

http//www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spouse
http//www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/spouse
http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/spouse
http//www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/spouse

You may also refer me to your dictionary.

Peace

unknownuser

Salam

Here are the links, quote one dictionary that says it is not referring to "marriages"

http//www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spouse
http//www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/spouse
http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/spouse
http//www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/spouse

You may also refer me to your dictionary.

Wa'alaikum salaam Mr out of context.

muslims

Salam

See? How are you trying so hard to distort the words in the Qur'an?

Maybe, innocently .. or may also out of ego, regardless it is the truth or not. Allah Knows Best.

I mean mate is spouse of course

Here are the links, quote one dictionary that says "spouses" is not referring to "marriages"

Therefore and if you are referring it to "spouses", then it must mean "marriages"!

Peace.

unknownuser

Salam

See? How you are trying hard to distort the words in the Qur'an? Maybe, innocently.

Peace.

Distort?? I distort Quranic verses with my Arabic knowledge, while you distort it with your strange logic science.

Peace

muslims

Salam

This is a simple question, do you mean it as "spouse" or not?

Can you understand this simple question?

Choose whatever you like from your own interpretation, according to your supreme Arabic knowledge. I don't really care about what you choose. It makes no difference to my arguments. Either way I can prove it logically how your interpretation is inconsistent with the Qur'an. The Qur'an has mentioned about this, and I believe in it.

So.. choose one, A or B

A. It means spouses

B. It does not mean spouses

Peace

unknownuser

So.. choose one, A or B

A. It means spouses

B. It does not mean spouses

Ok I will be patient from now.

What verse do u mean for answering your question?