Invitation to join the debate at faihfreedom.org
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Peace brother Edip, all,
I started a debate with Ali Sina of faithfreedom.org at the forum of that site. The site as it appears, have many Evangelical Christians disguised as agnostics.
Ali Sina and his followers have a lot in common with Sunnis and hence many of the same arguments against Sunnis work very well against them. They both have faith in Hadiths because they believe that they represent what really happened. They despise Mullahs and yet they happily and blindly accept their preconceived interpretation of the great reading and do not question it. At heart, the rejecters are indeed alike.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace,
Peace all,
Over the years, I've witnessed many challenges to Ali Sina and his crew, by renowned Islamic scholars and spiritual individuals alike (Dr. Kamran, Dr. Ahmed, Dr. Farhad, Dr. Harun, Dr. Zakir, Dr. Muzzamil, 19ers, Abdullah Noor, Layla, Tamir, Dr. Hussein, etc.) whether Quranists and/or haditihists, NONE thus-so-far has been a real challenge to Ali Sina, and all in conclusion, simply backed out and arressted their cases, some to the degree of frustration and disgust. Many debates with the 'faithful' are still ongoing.
Perhaps Kyle, with his SYMBOLISM, NAMELESS/TITLELESS IDEAS and "CONTROLLED THOUGHTS", might take the "tug-of-war" with Ali Sina to its next level. Just my thoughts!!!
Peace,
Ali Sina has backed down to the one man he knows him better than himself and has already lost to him debate (then he crashed his forum to cover it up, good job murtadd). Just take a visit to examinethetruth.com to see what I mean.
This is just the begining, my friend. Neither one has lost nor won, at least not yet.
Oh its been over for a while. He lost when he tried to back up an arguement that the Prophet ordered the Library of Alexandria destroyed.
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Peace Ayman,
Ali Sina and his followers have a lot in common with Sunnis and hence many of the same arguments against Sunnis work very well against them. They both have faith in Hadiths because they believe that they represent what really happened. They despise Mullahs and yet they happily and blindly accept their preconceived interpretation of the great reading and do not question it. At heart, the rejecters are indeed alike.
EXCELLENT POINT AYMAN!! This is what I have been saying about the people at faithfreedom all along!! You hit the hammer right on the head of the nail.
Peace Danish
By the way, you're rockin' at faithfreedom, and so is Joe, Idris, Damon, Mirror-of-Truth and others
I've noticed your posts there as well. You rock too bro.
Salaam Family.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon. -
Peace Kyle,
Kyle, could you care to explain in plain English what my SYMBOLISM represented as quoted by me above. The reason for asking is because I don't think you really understood by what I meant since you counter-labeled me, but I could be wrong.
My apologies, I thougt you were stating that my points(seeds0 were not relevant. Please explain to me the proper understanding of what you wrote.
Your points are quite relevant and perhaps need more emphasis to better understand. What I meant was to "be carefull in what you say and how you start off with infidels, for the insects, meaning, the people of faithfreedom can devour your "controlled thoughts" from every angle, not being able to understand and contemplate to your reasonings, specially when they are anew and addressed to "greenpies", as being witnessed." As an example, the rebuttle of Denis and the like. Hope I'm clear.
By the way, you're rockin' at faithfreedom, and so is Joe, Idris, Damon, Mirror-of-Truth and others.
Thank you D
GOD Bless.
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Peace Danish
By the way, you're rockin' at faithfreedom, and so is Joe, Idris, Damon, Mirror-of-Truth and others
I've noticed your posts there as well. You rock too bro. D
Thanks Damon for the jesture. I wish I had the "keystrokes" to refute their revolting claims. Nevertheless, my helping hand, insha-Allah, will not go in vain, every now and then. Either way and no matter how hard anyone of us tries to accomodate our views as per the Quran, its imperative that the majority of the disbelievers would revere with thier mind sets.
When the tough gets going.....and I'm here to support the truth, viz-a-viz my understandings, alhamdu-lillah.
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Peace Ayman, all
Peace brother Edip, all,
Can you explain how Edip is your brother when his serving other than The God(Rashad, code 19) is well known and proven time and again?
Arent we forbiden from befriending the rejecters, those who serve partners, those who invent and attribute lies to The God and dividers of the scripture into parts...arent we forbiden from befreinding those in whose hearts is perversity and who follow the ambiguous parts of the scripture attaching their own interpretation to it?
How it is that we reject Hadith and tolerate Neohadith...
How it is that we reject the old hadithers and accept neohadithers in our brotherhood?
How Edip Yuksel who is constant and persevering in his idolising of Rashad and propagation of his discovery,his Hadith and Sunna, is any better from any leader, ulama, mula, imam, guru of any other sect who has blinded himself and his crowd?
Fellow free-minders, please do not say that he doesnt folow Rashad blindly...neither the traditional ulama follow Bukhari or any other hadith book blindly....
Bukhari himself has rejected 99% of Hadith corpse, thus Edip
s rejection of 99% of Rashads Hadith doesnt make him in any way less idolater and blasphemer......brothers do not accept this neotroian horse better known under the name code 19
berst wishes, Zlatan
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Edip is also the author of an article that claims that hell is not forever...and the knowlegeable people know this is the root of disobedience to The Creator!!! (see 323-24, see also 280-82)
Praise be to Him who revealed the scripture and embeded the knowledge in it!!!
223-24(The great reading)
Have you not observed those who were given something of the scripture being invited to The God?s scripture to judge between them, then a group of them turns away while they are adverse?
That is because they said ?The Fire will not touch us except a counted number of days,? what they were invented have decieved them in their religion/way of life/obligation/"deen".
280-82 (The great reading)
And they said ?The Fire will not touch us except for a counted number of days.? Say ?Have you taken a pledge with The God? If so, then The God will not break His pledge. Or do you say about The God what you do not know??
Indeed, whoever gains a sin, and is surrounded by his mistakes; those are the people of the Fire, in it they abide eternally.
And those who believe and do good work, they are the people of Paradise, in it they abide eternally. -
Peace be upon you brother Zlatan,
Please continue to list the PHILOSOPHIES of an otherwise good meaning human so that we can all see clearly the mistake that is being made by ALLYING with a group (even though we claim we are NOT a group) whose driving force is shown clearly by thier name, 19.org.
Please be sure to add something to the thread on "God Alone Projects" as well.
I want to make sure that it is understood that it isNOT the man Edip Yuksel whom I reject, it is his incorrect philosophies that I reject.
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Peace brother Zlatan, all,
- O, you who had faith, if you separated in The God's sake, seek clarification, and do not say to those who offer the peace "You are not faithful". You desire the facet of the low life, but The God has many winnings, you were like them before, but The God conferred on you his favor, so seek clarification, indeed The God is fully informed of what you do.
The sign in 494 reminds me of where I was not too long ago. I do not know what is in the hearts of other people who offer peace. Hopefully, we are trying to be on the straight path. Some people are further along than others but it doesn't matter as long as there is progress. In this case, I can see some progress on the part of Edip.
I hope that 494 clarified where I am coming from.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace be upon you Ayman,
- O, you who had faith, if you separated in The God's sake, seek clarification, and do not say to those who offer the peace "You are not faithful". You desire the facet of the low life, but The God has many winnings, you were like them before, but The God conferred on you his favor, so seek clarification, indeed The God is fully informed of what you do.
The sign in 494 reminds me of where I was not too long ago. I do not know what is in the hearts of other people who offer peace. Hopefully, we are trying to be on the straight path. Some people are further along than others but it doesn't matter as long as there is progress. In this case, I can see some progress on the part of Edip.
I hope that 494 clarified where I am coming from.
Yes! if you SEPERATE, seek explanation!!
I am not sure that "Free Minds" and "19.org" was ever joined in order to be considered as SEPERATED, but for arguments sake, lets say the two were joined. I have given MANY MANY verses that EXPLAIN why I am against this "ALLY". MANY verses.
Further, I have never and would naver state that Edip or anyone seeking the God does not have faith, but the God wants us to move from having faith to KNOWING! Faith can sometimes be blind, so the God tells us to seek increase in KNOWING(Knolwdege).
(226) Surely The God does not (feel) shame that (He) gives/strikes an example , (of) any a mosquito (and) so what (is) above it, so but those who have faith, so they know that it (is) the truth from their Lord...
When we take concepts from the subjective to the objective, there can be no argument. We can argue all day about the SUBJECTIVITY of a day being hot or cold based on FEELINGS, but when we use the OBJECTIVITY of the thermometer, there can be no argument.
I ask this question again, because I have gotten NO ANSWER. Who does the God tell us NOT TO ALLY with? There are MANY verses regarding ALLIES. Can someone point out to me who these people are that we should Not ALLY with? And tell me how they are different from 19.org.
Lastly, if soemone who follows 19 needs my help in doing good, I am all for it, but this does not mean that I ALLY myself with thie person or group, I only ally myself with the good deed.
Its like having a homosexual aquaintance, you might be his or her friend in some respects, but you are careful to make sure that people understand that you are not "THAT FRIENDLY". I know that comparison was not the best, but I continue to struggle to get this message across.
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Peace,
There are several individuals, both Quran aloners and hadithians, debating at faithfreedom. What I have personally observed over the years and ofcourse currently, that it is not possible to come to any consensus or understanding with the crusaders and evil thinkers, no matter what subject one brings about, as long as anyone supports Islam or being a Muslim according to them. These satanic creatures have extreme hatred towards Allah (GOD) and Muhammad (messengers/prophets).
Edip or anyone else for that matter, can only deliver the "message' but perhaps all in vain. The Muslims and the sunni/shias are arguing amongst themselves within the evil forum.
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Peace brother Kyle, all,
I am not sure that "Free Minds" and "19.org" was ever joined in order to be considered as SEPERATED, but for arguments sake, lets say the two were joined. I have given MANY MANY verses that EXPLAIN why I am against this "ALLY". MANY verses.
Further, I have never and would naver state that Edip or anyone seeking the God does not have faith, but the God wants us to move from having faith to KNOWING! Faith can sometimes be blind, so the God tells us to seek increase in KNOWING(Knolwdege).
OK, let's hear how The God explains to people who KNOW
- If they repent and persist/maintain the learning connection and brought purification/betterment, then they are your brothers/sisters in the obligation and We detail the signs for people who KNOW.
Who are the people in 911? Please read from 91-10 to see who "they" are. They are people who were debauchers/"fasiqoon", exchanged The God's sign for a small price, repelled from the path of The God, and who attacked those who had faith. But even those people, are our BROTHERS and SISTERS in the obligation of "islam"/submission/compliance to The God if they meet the conditions in 911.
(226) Surely The God does not (feel) shame that (He) gives/strikes an example , (of) any a mosquito (and) so what (is) above it, so but those who have faith, so they know that it (is) the truth from their Lord...
When we take concepts from the subjective to the objective, there can be no argument. We can argue all day about the SUBJECTIVITY of a day being hot or cold based on FEELINGS, but when we use the OBJECTIVITY of the thermometer, there can be no argument.
What are the conditions in 911?
- they repent
- they persist in the learning connection/"salat"
- they bring purification/betterment/"zakat"
Condition (1) is subjective because we can't go inside someone's heart to see if they really repented or not. However, (2) and (3) can tell us about (1).
Condition (2) can be objectively observed. We can see when people are learning from the signs of The God and try to follow them by obeying The God as best as they can. On previous occasions, Edip learned and changed his and Dr. Khalifa's translation of parts of the great reading based on discussions right here on this forum. Learning is a gradual process and that is why patience is required with it. People will make mistakes along the way but it doesn't matter as long as there is persistent progress.
Condition (3) can also be objectively observed. We can see when people are purifying themselves from falsehood as a result of learning and we can see when people bring inner and outer betterment to their minds and the environment around them. Accepting a translation that contains 9128-129 is a step in purification.
I ask this question again, because I have gotten NO ANSWER. Who does the God tell us NOT TO ALLY with? There are MANY verses regarding ALLIES. Can someone point out to me who these people are that we should Not ALLY with? And tell me how they are different from 19.org.
We should not ally with any other than The God.
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Say "Is other than The God do I take as an ALLY?"...
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and warn with it those who fear that they be gathered to their Lord, they have none other than Him as an ALLY and intercessor, perhaps they may be forethoughtful/mindful.
I take The God alone as an ALLY not 19.org or Free-minds.org. If I take The God as an ally and someone else takes The God as an ally, then he/she and I automatically become allies.
Lastly, if soemone who follows 19 needs my help in doing good, I am all for it, but this does not mean that I ALLY myself with thie person or group, I only ally myself with the good deed.
Yes, we ally ourselves with The God by serving Him alone. A good deed serves The God. As far as I know, defending the truth by refuting atheist Sunnis such as Ali Sina is a good deed.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace be upon you brother Ayman,
OK, let's hear how The God explains to people who KNOW
- If they repent and persist/maintain the learning connection and brought purification/betterment, then they are your brothers/sisters in the obligation and We detail the signs for people who KNOW.
Who are the people in 911? Please read from 91-10 to see who "they" are. They are people who were debauchers/"fasiqoon", exchanged The God's sign for a small price, repelled from the path of The God, and who attacked those who had faith. But even those people, are our BROTHERS and SISTERS in the obligation of "islam"/submission/compliance to The God if they meet the conditions in 911.
Yes, I agree. WHEN those people meet those conditions of maintaining the LEARNING PROCESS (not bowing 3 or 5 times a day ritual) and bring forth purification (not pollution of counting 19's everywhere), then they are our brothers and sisters because they are KNOWING, not just believing(19).
What are the conditions in 911?
- they repent
- they persist in the learning connection/"salat"
- they bring purification/betterment/"zakat"
Condition (1) is subjective because we can't go inside someone's heart to see if they really repented or not.
While I agree that we cannot see inside a persons heart, certainly if a person is truly repenting, won't he admit so if asked? Do you think Edip would repent verbally (although I am not requesting he does) for spreading the so called 19 miracle?
However, (2) and (3) can tell us about (1).
Condition (2) can be objectively observed. We can see when people are learning from the signs of The God and try to follow them by obeying The God as best as they can. On previous occasions, Edip learned and changed his and Dr. Khalifa's translation of parts of the great reading based on discussions right here on this forum. Learning is a gradual process and that is why patience is required with it. People will make mistakes along the way but it doesn't matter as long as there is persistent progress.
I agree, but I guess my problem is that I don't see the persistence. While we are discussing condition #2, Edip understands Salaat as facing Mecca and doing 2 units of tradition. How long should one be patient with that? Do we ALLY now, in hopes that his understanding progresses later? I find it difficult that he can satisfy this second condition when he does not understand this condition.
Condition (3) can also be objectively observed. We can see when people are purifying themselves from falsehood as a result of learning and we can see when people bring inner and outer betterment to their minds and the environment around them. Accepting a translation that contains 9128-129 is a step in purification.
Yes, that is a good step. But is the purification going to continue? Shouldn't we have patience and see? We certainly would not let a prisoner out based on meaningful but SMALL change, would we? Because the prisoner is given the same conditions.
idolfree1 wrote
I ask this question again, because I have gotten NO ANSWER. Who does the God tell us NOT TO ALLY with? There are MANY verses regarding ALLIES. Can someone point out to me who these people are that we should Not ALLY with? And tell me how they are different from 19.org.-
Say "Is other than The God do I take as an ALLY?"...
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and warn with it those who fear that they be gathered to their Lord, they have none other than Him as an ALLY and intercessor, perhaps they may be forethoughtful/mindful.
I take The God alone as an ALLY not 19.org or Free-minds.org. If I take The God as an ally and someone else takes The God as an ally, then he/she and I automatically become allies.
Exactly my point! D So why the "joining" of free minds and 19.org? Why don't we just all step up our "CALL"?
idolfree1 wrote
Lastly, if soemone who follows 19 needs my help in doing good, I am all for it, but this does not mean that I ALLY myself with thie person or group, I only ally myself with the good deed.Yes, we ally ourselves with The God by serving Him alone. A good deed serves The God. As far as I know, defending the truth by refuting atheist Sunnis such as Ali Sina is a good deed.
Yes, I agree, so why do we have to unify under some title? This is exactly what I am saying. If we unify under some title, we are ALLYING ourselves with those who promote 19 and if it gets anywhere, someone will uncover this "contradiction" and it will weaken the argument. The God warns us of these ALLIES.
Lastly, the above verses do not imply that we cannot ally with a human being, it is just that this human being must be on the path of the God, therefore the ally is REALLY with the God. To make it clearer, we can ally with the God's prophets and messsengers, because that is the same as ALLYING with the God.
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Peace be upon you all,
This is too easy! D
At least in the Muhammad section, I haven't made it past there yet. I am disarming them all of thier favorite weapons so effortlessly! And getting sunnis and atheist all at the same time D
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That is because they said ?The Fire will not touch us except a counted number of days,? what they were invented have decieved them in their religion/way of life/obligation/"deen".
Zlatan
Your obsession with hell and animosity against the mathematical sign of the Quran is revealing. You tend to see all hell and smoke in chapter 74 and claim that God's only answer to one's argument against the divine authorship of the Quran to be burning that person in hell forever....
By quoting that verse as reaction to my article, you show that either you did not read my article carefully or you did not understand it.
Your obsession with hell and stubborness to see the mathematical design embedded in the Quran may be an indication that you have problem with God's most repeated and reminded attributes Merciful, Knower, and Wise.
Peace,
Edip -
There is so much hate at faihfreedom.org cry
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Peace be upon you Tux,
There is so much hate in the world itself. Don't let it bother you (easier said than done). Remain at peace and realize how blessed you are to be on the righteous side. Strengthen the PEACE within you so that it is too strong for any evil to penetrate. Then begin making the message clear for any of them that will listen.