Jilbab [Quran 33:59]

[mamnoeoea_qatief_alazhaar]

As salaamu aleykum sister

I didn't want to be unpolite but I want to show that the way you tell something to someone have a greater impact than the things you are telling..that's why I like you to understand that you don't have to be angry on people because with nice words and patience you will certainly achieve your goals.

I want to tell something about the story (sister diamondhoneybunch put a quote)

This story means just that there are everywhere bad people with bad influences even when they pray or wear niqab,they are misguided.;the niqab don't work when the hart is not pure.

But it also doesn't mean that with a good intention and a good heart we are pleasing God..it needs more than a good hart because there are also rules that we have to follow..

Look meat eaters are telling in Belgium don't have to cut sheep by throatcutting because it is painfull..even vegetarians don't want to eat meat at all because they don't want that animals feel pain and are just living to eat..but they forget that is not possible in the creation of Allah to be a vegetarian because it have to be (truth)because I never see all the life that lions and sheep are eating a vegetarian salat with each other..God created the lions as predators..to kill an animal for is meat is the creation of God..

And that is the same what I want to explain..some things we don't like even when they are good for us..even when it make no sense..when the message didn't came ever on earth then every lovely person with good intentionswas still eating porc meat.
And just tell me how we feel with hart that we can't eat porc..no we can't..that's why only good intentions for clothing is not enough..we have to respect also the rules who are written in the Quran..alhamdullilah

Rules and hart (good intentions) = the only way to follow..the one can't stand without the other..
That's why I don't believe only in a nice heart because everyone want to do nice fro others in some kind of way..

BUT

I didn't came on this website to convince someone of my truth/opinion or to put my thoughts on others..I wanted just to find out about my hypothesis (for people who belief that there is a clothingrule)that it could be that the covering was a cloack and I find many intresting answers..
One answer that the jilbab could be a "person" I find a strong interpretation but on the other way I don't get why only woman are addressed with this clothe or this person?
When it was for not to offend a minoraty on this time why only woman was ment?
It would ment that woman can't go outside alone without a person on this time..it looks like an imrisonnement for woman more than they can go out byself with their burqa where they like to go..
So untill now I have a lot of work to do to find answers..insh'Allah by the help of God and his creations,will find the truth

[diamantinehoneybunch]

As salaamu aleykum sister

I didn't want to be unpolite but I want to show that the way you tell something to someone have a greater impact than the things you are telling..that's why I like you to understand that you don't have to be angry on people because with nice words and patience you will certainly achieve your goals.

I want to tell something about the story (sister diamondhoneybunch put a quote)

This story means just that there are everywhere bad people with bad influences even when they pray or wear niqab,they are misguided.;the niqab don't work when the hart is not pure.

But it also doesn't mean that with a good intention and a good heart we are pleasing God..it needs more than a good hart because there are also rules that we have to follow..

Look meat eaters are telling in Belgium don't have to cut sheep by throatcutting because it is painfull..even vegetarians don't want to eat meat at all because they don't want that animals feel pain and are just living to eat..but they forget that is not possible in the creation of Allah to be a vegetarian because it have to be (truth)because I never see all the life that lions and sheep are eating a vegetarian salat with each other..God created the lions as predators..to kill an animal for is meat is the creation of God..

And that is the same what I want to explain..some things we don't like even when they are good for us..even when it make no sense..when the message didn't came ever on earth then every lovely person with good intentionswas still eating porc meat.
And just tell me how we feel with hart that we can't eat porc..no we can't..that's why only good intentions for clothing is not enough..we have to respect also the rules who are written in the Quran..alhamdullilah

Rules and hart (good intentions) = the only way to follow..the one can't stand without the other..
That's why I don't believe only in a nice heart because everyone want to do nice fro others in some kind of way..

BUT

I didn't came on this website to convince someone of my truth/opinion or to put my thoughts on others..I wanted just to find out about my hypothesis (for people who belief that there is a clothingrule)that it could be that the covering was a cloack and I find many intresting answers..
One answer that the jilbab could be a "person" I find a strong interpretation but on the other way I don't get why only woman are addressed with this clothe or this person?
When it was for not to offend a minoraty on this time why only woman was ment?
It would ment that woman can't go outside alone without a person on this time..it looks like an imrisonnement for woman more than they can go out byself with their burqa where they like to go..
So untill now I have a lot of work to do to find answers..insh'Allah by the help of God and his creations,will find the truth

I posted the story not because I wanted to show that all Sunnis are badasses but I wanted to show you how this type of brainswashing works.

Since kids, those Sunnis were taught by their teachers that women are awrat (means nudity, nakedness, indecency, shame) so women must wrap themselves in black tents to honor their shamefulness since they themselves are nudity.
They were also taught that women must just sit at home, less rights whereas men have so many rights. They are brainwashed by making them believe that women are the caused of fitna (slander) so women must be confined at home or wrap themselves with tents when they go out.

The best place to brainswash is school and the right time is during childhood. I go to school and I know how students here are brainwashed during "Islamic" educations.

I was not as angry as when you said that I am "free woman with guts". I just felt insulted by your posts saying that I am a "free woman with guts" just because I am against gender apartheid.

If you want people to respect you, the first thing is respect yourself. I know most of your posts sound polite but you disrespected female gender by saying that women's hands are also nakedness / nudity. You insulted both genders by saying "women are beautiful. Men can't resist women's beauty". You insulted men by saying that men can't resist women and you insulted women by saying that the whole woman's body can arouse men.

Purdah or burka have nothing to do with modesty. I can take toilet papers and wrap myself with all of them. I have seen many buqais behave rudely.

You said women must be "soft" by covering themselves. Ugh! You mean women must be PASSIVE in order to be polite? Both men and women have to be polite but do not be mistaken or confused politeness with passivity.

[huruf]

I posted the story not because I wanted to show that all Sunnis are badasses but I wanted to show you how this type of brainswashing works.

Since kids, those Sunnis were taught by their teachers that women are awrat (means nudity, nakedness, indecency, shame) so women must wrap themselves in black tents to honor their shamefulness since they themselves are nudity.
They were also taught that women must just sit at home, less rights whereas men have so many rights. They are brainwashed by making them believe that women are the caused of fitna (slander) so women must be confined at home or wrap themselves with tents when they go out.

The best place to brainswash is school and the right time is during childhood. I go to school and I know how students here are brainwashed during "Islamic" educations.

I was not as angry as when you said that I am "free woman with guts". I just felt insulted by your posts saying that I am a "free woman with guts" just because I am against gender apartheid.

If you want people to respect you, the first thing is respect yourself. I know most of your posts sound polite but you disrespected female gender by saying that women's hands are also nakedness / nudity. You insulted both genders by saying "women are beautiful. Men can't resist women's beauty". You insulted men by saying that men can't resist women and you insulted women by saying that the whole woman's body can arouse men.

Purdah or burka have nothing to do with modesty. I can take toilet papers and wrap myself with all of them. I have seen many buqais behave rudely.

You said women must be "soft" by covering themselves. Ugh! You mean women must be PASSIVE in order to be polite? Both men and women have to be polite but do not be mistaken or confused politeness with passivity.

I agree with diamantine... in that with a lot of "softness" you can badmouth the holiest, let alone anybody which you consider that you can trample on with impunity.

I find that the posts of mamnoe... contain a lot of assertions or chlish?es that may be true for her, but although she does not seem to say that that is the way every woman should be, she in some way gives to understand that all women, if they were not conditioned-perverted-forced by the permissive environment would be the natural way for a woman, that is, shy. Why should a woman be shy by the mere fact of being a woman I can only understand if she is used to be ovvertrampled by men for that reason. She guards herself because there is a danger. If there is no danger, where is the virtue of shyness?

Those kinds of assertions give an image which may be true, but actually it is very damning of the male part of the purported muslims societies, something not surprising at all on the other hand. And how does a faceveil cure shyness I really can't see. What I can see it does is impunity. Nobody knows you, you can do whatever you want, or hide whatever you want of your expressions and actions and therefore you feel safe. But then, if what you do is innocent, why should you be in danger because of being amongst a mixed crowd. Many in the crowd are also women who do not cover their faces. It is damned uncomfortable to be addressed by someone who can see you but you cannot see, I tell you. That way of protecting shyness for me is pure impoliteness. But the fashion of the veil or whatever is so implanted now that no even being impolite will keep the fashion followers from hiding behind a cloth. I do not mean to say that the ladies want to be unpolite, I don't think that they are in general, I think they are rather satisfied with themselves and with the attention they get, but again, I feel like hiding behind a cloth when i talk to one of them and take the cloth off when I am done. Of course I do not do that, but I still think it is impolite. And it is not less impolite if they address a man who himself does not hide. Sincerely, I respect anybody's will to dress in whichever way he or she fancies, but compliments for the fashion of hiding behind a veil when addressing people, I cannot give. I find it detrimental to communication and lacking in consideration to other women and also to men with whom they may talk. Of course I assume that men themselves are behaving politely, if they are not, then the solution is not for women to hide, but for those men to be curtailed in their social activity where they offend others.

And a woman who is not shy is not a little bit less of a woman than a woman who is shy. Shyness may be a trait of character, in male or female, but it is not a virtue and a woman who is shy is not even a little bit better than a woman who isn't shy. God does not promise a reward for shyness or for hiding oneself under clothes. That kind of talk seems to be extracted form some XIX century European novel, where it is ladylike to faint even, not from reality.

Salaam

[mamnoeoea_qatief_alazhaar]

?Indeed from the teachings of the first prophets which has reached you is, ?If you do not have shyness, then do as you please.?

Indeed, the Qur?an states, ?For man was created weak.?

I do believe that woman are soft harted when they are not brainwashed because of the modern secular mind.

Many woman wants to clothe them in an attractice way because they are grown up by this world and habbits..when they are shy as a child they are told that they are prudish and they have to loose this crying and soft hartness and there shyness is seen as a weakness and treath..

That's why most of the woman want to show themselves as strong and powerfull..a sexy image to gain more respect..they show what they are not..soft harted creatures with both qualities..hard and rough to survive and to gain respect,soft-harted that can quiqly be trampled on..because of the pervers situtaion and unnatural behaviour from people,woman are the prisoners from their own struggle to hide their softeness..

When they see this truth and they can accept also their "softness and shyness,modesty" then they can be free of the slavery of fakeness

[diamantinehoneybunch]

You again are equating modesty with burqa, aren't you?

I didn't say being shameless. Being shy means being shy from doing bad things such as raping, murdering etc. Being shy does not mean being passive.

No one on here wants to see women wear sexy clothes. I am actually tired of brainwashed burqa lovers keep bragging about the sexy immodest women out there to make comparisons between non-burqais and burqais and justify the goodness of burqas.

See the verse you shared? Does it say women only that must be shy and to be shy is to hide in burqa and to be confined at home? No! The verse is to all humans not to females only.

Women in hedonistic culture are brainwashed that to be beautiful is to show and sell their bodies.

Women in barbaric and sexist culture are brainwashed to hide themselves in tents or confine themselves in houses by making them believe that women are nudity, nakedness, shameful so they must cover like ghosts to 'honor' themselves. They are also brainwashed by making them believe that women must be modest so to be modest is to hide themselves in tents.

Anyways can you tell me where are you from? Are you a convert or you were born Muslim? I don't think you are an Arab because you said you don't understand Arabic. Are you Afghan?

And only women are to be shy, soft-hearted blablabla whereas men have so much freedom? What kind of gender apartheid is this? A type of brainwashing done by Sunnis / Shias.

[unknownuser]

Salaam

?Indeed from the teachings of the first prophets which has reached you is, ?If you do not have shyness, then do as you please.?

What the first prophets teach to us??

Peace

[Man_of_Faith]

Peace,

A woman in a modest dress in a professional situation is the one who will gain the most respect I think. And then I mean modest as in what is neutral in the setting and not something that screams for attention.

God bless you

[JavaLatte]

I am quite tired of this 'softness & shyness' thingy because you keep saying these words over and over again, mamnoeoea.

I'm kind of worry if you also share this 'lessons of softness' to females around you, such as your younger sisters (if you have).

I'm curious who have instilled this in you so deep, and why you keep letting them do that to you?

If you do not have shyness, then do as you please.

That is hadith... Apparently, you are quite fascinated by hadith.

Be wary of hadiths that sounds 'nice', 'sweet', or 'good'.

After my turning point, I left hadith and scholar's opinions, and to search for truth I choose to focus on God and the Qur'an, and I realize that 'looking good' hadiths can also have elements of deception.

I decide to left all hadiths, as I think none of them will useful for my salvation, Qur'an contains so much better lessons and reliable guide.

I learn that I should let myself be brainwashed by God. Only God alone Who I let to brainwash me, because I believe truth (the real truth, not the fake ones) comes from God, The Creator.

Have you ever learned/examined hadiths about hoors in Jannah? Don't you feel disgusted with what they describe?

Those hadiths use very inappropriate words describing Jannah as the place of legal prostitution. Is that in line with shyness? nope

It is hard to believe those shameful words truly came from the messenger of God. And how is it possible God allow such lewdness rampant in Jannah.

From the Qur'an, I find that Prophet conveyed God's message in respectable and educated manner.

I don't want to force you to leave the hadith, but I really suggest you to think and ponder.

Perhaps you should read sahih hadiths as much as you can, check them carefully, ponder, think carefully whether they really fit with the Qur'an.

When I still believe in them, the more I knew hadiths, the more I felt uncomfortable.

[huruf]

?Indeed from the teachings of the first prophets which has reached you is, ?If you do not have shyness, then do as you please.?

Indeed, the Qur?an states, ?For man was created weak.?

I do believe that woman are soft harted when they are not brainwashed because of the modern secular mind.

Many woman wants to clothe them in an attractice way because they are grown up by this world and habbits..when they are shy as a child they are told that they are prudish and they have to loose this crying and soft hartness and there shyness is seen as a weakness and treath..

That's why most of the woman want to show themselves as strong and powerfull..a sexy image to gain more respect..they show what they are not..soft harted creatures with both qualities..hard and rough to survive and to gain respect,soft-harted that can quiqly be trampled on..because of the pervers situtaion and unnatural behaviour from people,woman are the prisoners from their own struggle to hide their softeness..

When they see this truth and they can accept also their "softness and shyness,modesty" then they can be free of the slavery of fakeness

Lady you are writing sa science fiction novel there. Nothing to do with real world. My mother, who is 92 would laug out her guts at this nonsense. Where do get that kind of fantasy?

So if your are soft you are not brainwahsed, but if somebodyelse is not soft she is brainwashed? Great.

At least, I must give that to you, you do not attribute such fantasies to the Qur'an. It is your ideas, understood.

Salaam

[huruf]

Peace,

and not something that screams for attention.

God bless you

Like a burqa?

[JavaLatte]

Like a burqa?

A good question, Sis.

Salaam.

[Man_of_Faith]

Like a burqa?

Peace,

Well, burqa screams for attention but at least not in a immodest way although maybe in a western society people will stare and think what kind of UFO is this?

God bless you

[Indelwyn]

Women in barbaric and sexist culture are brainwashed to hide themselves in tents or confine themselves in houses by making them believe that women are nudity, nakedness, shameful so they must cover like ghosts to 'honor' themselves. They are also brainwashed by making them believe that women must be modest so to be modest is to hide themselves in tents.

Very true. It is this thinking that has actually hurts women in Islam. How you might ask, we have very few leaders in the female gender. At my masjid, there are very few women to help teach. They stay home and disregard the community that needs help. I, myself would love to learn to read and recite, but I can't find a female teacher.

I currently teach at the masjid. I help our converts.. both men and women are in my class. I am also now a Chaplain with the local jail to assist the female muslims incarcerated, they have been forgotten. Why... shyness, ashamed to leave the house and or afraid to be a leader in general. We have a smart sister who has so much knowledge, but will not teach. She said her voice is also her arwah! How does this help our ummah? It does not, it neglects it.

You can function in life and still be modest. Trust me. Do you think this life is not a test? Do you not feel an obligation to humanity or are you just some man's possession and a fitna to the world?

[mamnoeoea_qatief_alazhaar]

You again are equating modesty with burqa, aren't you?

I didn't say being shameless. Being shy means being shy from doing bad things such as raping, murdering etc. Being shy does not mean being passive.

No one on here wants to see women wear sexy clothes. I am actually tired of brainwashed burqa lovers keep bragging about the sexy immodest women out there to make comparisons between non-burqais and burqais and justify the goodness of burqas.

See the verse you shared? Does it say women only that must be shy and to be shy is to hide in burqa and to be confined at home? No! The verse is to all humans not to females only.

Women in hedonistic culture are brainwashed that to be beautiful is to show and sell their bodies.

Women in barbaric and sexist culture are brainwashed to hide themselves in tents or confine themselves in houses by making them believe that women are nudity, nakedness, shameful so they must cover like ghosts to 'honor' themselves. They are also brainwashed by making them believe that women must be modest so to be modest is to hide themselves in tents.

Anyways can you tell me where are you from? Are you a convert or you were born Muslim? I don't think you are an Arab because you said you don't understand Arabic. Are you Afghan?

And only women are to be shy, soft-hearted blablabla whereas men have so much freedom? What kind of gender apartheid is this? A type of brainwashing done by Sunnis / Shias.

As salaamu aleykum

So many answers..i will try to give a few reactions on them insh'Allah

Passivety,shameless and shy are not equal..I did not know that woman with burqa/niqab are passive..maybe you don't know about this woman..but you have so much prejudices about them..woman in burqa/niqab don't have to sit passive at house..it is the world who don't want them..because of people like you and many others..woman with niqab.burqa are seen as retarded..when they have to live with you par exemple and you want them to change always ..then you are the intolerant who don't want them to accept how they are...because of the small mind thinking you put on them..you came to freeminds.org because of your free thinking and wise answers..think again..people who don't have tolerance are not that "free" trust me..to understand the needs of one human you have to leave your seat and go to live with woman who were burqa/niqab,woman who have choosen thereself to wear this cloth..how can you judge on people if your brain is not open to understands them..in many topics you are fighting against the "ahadith,the suni,the arabs etc" and you put all this people togheter in a garbage bag..

It is not your problem that woman wants to wear something ..go to save those who are puched to wear this..than you would be a hero..you can't win a fight with woman who want and realy want to spread some truth where they believe in..they will fight untill death for their idea because for them it seams the right way..
In all the answers untill now I didn't find any evidence or reasan to change my mind..and it is not because I am brainwashed sister,it is because of my sincere feeling that this clothingrule is in the quran..sometimes it don't have nothing to do with mind but with hart..it even don't need any explenation..

Many woman who became muslim and had before every freedom,just are leaving everything of freedom and fit themselves in niqab/burqa..how you can explain something like this..what is the price from freedom anyway..it is a complete lie..

The freedom what many people think is just a consolation for their brains and their wanting for their so called" freedom" that not exists

Do you realy kn,ow what is freedom sister..if you think that a clothe can take freedom,then you dont know what is freedom

[diamantinehoneybunch]

As salaamu aleykum

So many answers..i will try to give a few reactions on them insh'Allah

Passivety,shameless shy are not equal..I did not know that woman with burqa/niqab are passive..maybe you don't know about this woman..but you have so much prejudices about them..woman in burqa/niqab don't have to sit passive at house..it is the world who don't want them..because of people like you and many others..

Oh my God! Didn't you say that women should not work? Prejudice? Oh how the irony. It is you who are having prejudices againts all women who simply do not hide themselves in burqas even though they wear decent clothes and others that do not support niqab and veils. You said I am a "free women" just for having my arguments.

woman with niqab.burqa are seen as retarded..when they have to live with you par exemple and you want them to change always ..then you are the intolerant who don't want them to accept how they are...because of the small mind thinking you put on them..

Oh my God! I think I have said at least once that it is up to you if you still want to hide yourselves in burqas.

you came to freeminds.org because of your free thinking and wise answers..think again..people who don't have tolerance are not that "free" trust me..

Please learn the word tolerance. If you don't know what that means, better do not use. So sharing my views and arguments are intolerant? So you just expect me to shut up with burqa-supporters insisting and enforcing burqas by saying women are to be blamed of rape, women are awrat (nakedness, shames, nudity, indecency), women cause fitna etc? If you want tolerance, then allow others to give their opinions and arguments. People in Saudi Arabia are killed for protesting against gender apartheid.

to understand the needs of one human you have to leave your seat and go to live with woman who were burqa/niqab,woman who have choosen thereself to wear this cloth..how can you judge on people if your brain is not open to understands them..in many topics you are fighting against the "ahadith,the suni,the arabs etc" and you put all this people togheter in a garbage bag..

I do not fight Arabs. Arabs are mostly lovely people. Love Arabs.
Of course we have to fight hadiths because they are full of violence. Who says I don't want want to 'live with them'? Again, if you want you so-called tolerance, please be tolerant to others to by allowing them to speak their minds.

It is not your problem that woman wants to wear something ..go to save those who are puched to wear this..than you would be a hero..you can't win a fight with woman who want and realy want to spread some truth where they believe in..they will fight untill death for their idea because for them it seams the right way..

Oh you want the burqais to spread their 'truth' but non-burqais cannot spread their beliefs. So I know what tolerance is according to your mind. Thanks for teaching me what tolerance is. -Sarcasm-

In all the answers untill now I didn't find any evidence or reasan to change my mind..and it is not because I am brainwashed sister,it is because of my sincere feeling that this clothingrule is in the quran..sometimes it don't have nothing to do with mind but with hart..it even don't need any explenation..

Again, you are insisting that women with beautiful heart are those who hide in burqas. Sorry madam. I have seen many burqais in my country that behave like nuts. You say women must hide because most of women body parts are nakedness so I know this is one of the brainwashing arts to make women want to hide themselves in burqa. Not in the Qur'an but in the doctrines of Salafi version of Sunnism.

Many woman who became muslim and had before every freedom,just are leaving everything of freedom and fit themselves in niqab/burqa..how you can explain something like this..what is the price from freedom anyway..it is a complete lie..

The freedom what many people think is just a consolation for their brains and their wanting for their so called" freedom" that not exists

You said that I am intolerant for sharing my views and arguments but you yourself want me to stop sharing my arguments and views about the modest cloth called burqa.

Freedom that does not exist? Freedom of showing faces, hands, hair, ears, necks, feet and arms for women do not exist? What?

Do you realy kn,ow what is freedom sister..if you think that a clothe can take freedom,then you dont know what is freedom

Did I often use this word freedom? Nay!
Clothes do not take freedom but burqas are voluntarily worn by those women who think they are responsible for rape, are awrat etc.

---

"Intolerance"

Sunnis and other sectarians often use this words as apologetic arguments.
So sharing my views, opinions and arguments are INTOLERANT?
Oh so what about the Sunni and Shia religious polices that punish women for not covering?

Niqab / burqa is invented and enforced because

• Women in some heavily Sunni-influenced countries are considered nudity, shames, nakedness, indecency (Arabic Awrat) so wome must be covered up in tents.
• It's not men's fault when women are raped but it's the rape victims' fault for being raped because they do not hide themselves in purdah/burqa/niqab and are not confined at homes. So rape victims are also punished in prisons because they are charged committing zina.
• Women are the cause of slander, according to extremist Sunnis, the true Sunnis.
• Women are the property of their husbands / fathers (according to Sunnism) Yes just look at extremely Sunni countries ? Saudi Arabia

The hiding-like-a-ninja clothingrule is NOT in the Qur'an. I don't want to repeat all over again. You just have free your minds from dogmas that Sunnis have to put you.

Don't think I am too stupid about women wearing burqas. I see them everyday. I am surrounded by Sunnis. They wear them because they believe they can cause slander. Most of them are easy prey for men that want to be polygamous to get more harems under the guise of marriage.
As for point no 2, it is true in some Sunni countries. It happens in Saudi Arabia and UAE and some of the poor rape victims are even honor-killed.

You don't answer my question. Where are you from? Were you fed this niqab rules since childhood?

[mamnoeoea_qatief_alazhaar]

As salaamu aleykum

The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam) said "choose the good and forbid the evil, and when you find stinginess the has prevailed, that desires are followed, that one prefers the affairs of this world and that everyone is satisfied with his own opinion ... do mind your own business and leave the others for what they are. "(At-Tirmidhee)

Mash'Allah

And the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam) said "I guarantee a house in the bottom of Paradise for the one who ceases to discuss, even if he were in truth there." (Abu Dawud)

alhamdullilah

Thanks for everyone to spread their views but i have other things to do now who are more important than to discuss only..life needs practical also..
I have to spread the word and the truth and all who wants to belief,they do so and all who don't want to accept they don't;

Insh'Allah Allah will give everyone with a pure hart the best way and the pad of truth

As salaamu aleykum wa rahmatulahi wa barakatuhu

[huruf]

All the best for you too, in sha Allah

Salaam