She's Not Naked !!!
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but she want to wear a bikini but she thinks is haram
I think maybe many are objecting because the question of this thread clearly relating to the issue of whether it is "halal" or "haram".... and there is nothing mentioned based on other values, eg. freedom of way of life, equality etc.
However if the question is related to the value of freedom, wear it. If one wants to be naked, then do it.. be naked (5.105). They are free to do that and should be respected for their choice as long it did not directly harm the society. No one from the society can stop them, and no one can make them to be a Believer.
And had your Lord willed
those on earth would have believed
all of them entirely
Then, would you compel the people in order that they become believers?
(10.99)They are FREE to do what they want, but they are NOT FREE to claim it is from Allah. This is ridiculous, to align and validate all their desires using Allah's name. This is nothing about freedom, but about distorting the Quran for the gratification of their "ego and self esteem" relating to other values of life. They need more exercise for mental strength.
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The point some of us are trying to make
Can you go swimming in the sea ? What are the appropriate cloth/es you use?
Q Can you go swimming in the sea ?
A Yes, make sure it's safe for you to do so. Make sure you can swim, there's no shark, jellyfish, no strong current etc..
Q What are the appropriate cloth/es you use?
A Up to you, make sure it's safe for you and you follow the LOCAL CUSTOM/TRADITION (if the swimming area is crowded with people) if nude is safe then go nude..If you like traditional diving and "diving in nude" then go to Japan and learn few tips from this people.
Ama Divers, Traditional Japanese Divers (Read Ama means "Women of the Sea"
http//gakuran.com/ama-the-pearl-diving-mermaids-of-japan/Note Is there anyone here who would label the Ama as "Immoral people"?
Salam / Peace
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peace
Why are there so many men coming to this thread telling women how to dress and where to go or not to go? It's bizarre. I can't for the life of me imagine entering a discussion about men's swimming attire, passionately insisting men should dress a certain way, or stay out of the public space.
wow
I doubt that any of the women participating in or reading this thread is going to change their mind because of any of the arguments they are reading here.Those of you guys who feel that they are not capable of dealing with the temptation of seeing a woman in a bikini ? there's a simple solution. Just stay away from beaches and poolsides. You have absolutely no right to demand that we adjust our dress and behaviour based on your personal preferences, based on your male gaze. If you have a problem with women in bathing suits or short clothes that's just that ? your problem. Don't try to make it mine by shrouding your insecurities and inappropriate demands in phrases about religious obligation or social responsibility.
Peace Leyna,
You are aware that Free-minds is a discussion/debate forum and has a non-discrimination policy
and all are welcome to participate and are not to be excluded from discussion/debate based on race,
gender , national origin, religious affiliation etc.,God bless
peace
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Peace Jafar.
Interesting brother. Do you go there often?
I might join you on your next trip, to take a look at these mermaids and admire their skill.
As always you bring a good and valid point.
Peace to you
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Of course they are free to claim it's from God, and they are doing so. There's nothing you can do to take this freedom away.
"Freedom" in terms of the rules in the Quran..
Allah only gave them freedom to live the life they choose, and no one should interfere... It is personal.
BUT Allah does not give them freedom to claim it is from Allah.
Do you have verse to support your conclusion?
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Peace Jafar.
Interesting brother. Do you go there often?
I might join you on your next trip, to take a look at these mermaids and admire their skill.
As always you bring a good and valid point.
Peace to you
Only once... if you book the travel through tour agent and expecting to see the Ama to dive in nudity then the travel shall fell short of your expectation.
The Ama (or Japanese in general) is a very kind and tolerant people.
The Ama are aware that among the foreign tourist there are those who felt that "they're highly civilized due to their clothing style as told by their holy book" and their 'traditional diving suit' might fell short of 'the foreigners highly civilized and moral standard'.
Thus to avoid either being labeled as 'immoral', 'pagan', 'uncivilized', 'must be converted this instant' or 'must be put to death', the Ama choose to adapt their 'tradition' to the 'tradition of the foreign tourist'. The Ama dive like this as part of tourist attraction.
http//www.japan-iwate.info/cgi_data/location/0071-01.jpg
Salam / Peace
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I admire the Japanese because they have great mental strength and very discipline, even to the extend of drinking tea. I can't imagine if they follow the proper rules of Islam, what kind of Believers they will be. Maybe someday I'll experience life with their monks in the temple, a year or two.. and learning how they see and value life. Becoming a Buddhist monk. laugh
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BUT Allah does not give them freedom to claim it is from Allah.
This is getting childish and ridiculous.
Going to the beach in a bikini is absolutely okay with Allah. http//foolstown.com/sm/rev.gif http//www.intercot.com/discussion/images/smilies/vacation.gif http//i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj184/befje/smileys%203/bth_bf-smileytire.gif http//www.troublefreepool.com/images/smilies/jason/smiley-sport038.gif sun
There, I said it. You believe God doesn't give me the freedom to do so, fine. That doesn't affect my opinion or the fact that you can't censor me. Salam.
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There, I said it. You believe God doesn't give me the freedom to do so, fine.
I think you have problem to understand the issue.. laugh
"Freedom" in terms of the rules in the Quran..
and... obviously you have no verse to support your conclusion.
Therefore, it is not from Allah.. .
It is from you.. your statement, your rule.
Therefore, you are not free to claim it is true from Allah. yes
You need more exercise.
p.s. even a madman can claim those are from Allah, then what difference does it make with those argument? laugh
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Seeing this kind of discussion only made me questioning Islam itself.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606070.msg343673#msg343673
Salam/shalom
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Peace.
This thread is as long as it is, because the men are afraid of losing their authority over the women. They are afraid of losing their ability to guilt us into dressing a certain way. It's all about control.
I've been to many beaches in here in the US and the Caribbean. The beaches are almost always family friendly environments. I have not seen any guys on the verge of raping anyone.
Meanwhile, on a trip to India (my mom's hometown), I had boys throwing small rocks at me because I was wearing JEANS. brickwall
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This thread is as long as it is, because the men are afraid of losing their authority over the women. They are afraid of losing their ability to guilt us into dressing a certain way. It's all about control.
That's exactly what it is about. And that's why some men on here get so emotional, aggressive, and insulting. They can't deal with the fact that we don't take their attempts at shaming and scaring us seriously.
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Meanwhile, on a trip to India (my mom's hometown), I had boys throwing small rocks at me because I was wearing JEANS. brickwall
There's an 'ancient' saying
"If you're in Rome, dress like Romans"
In India's remote area? Wear Sari..
In Detroit? Don't wear Hijab, that's dangerous to your safety.
etc...And it has nothing to do with morality..
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Peace Earthdom,
Qur'an foresaw this behavior. It is nothing to lose Faith over?
And there hardly ought to be any blame exclusively on the women as it the immorality of the whole community that should be at blame. If every person everywhere did not reward a certain way of being then people would change their ways. So men show appreciation of dressing a certain way. But then we can also ask ourselves if it should be disallowed for a woman to bathe just because she risks showing her nakedness. It is a restriction of freedom. I suppose this is turning it a bit extreme.
But in an urban setting there is no reason with extreme cleavage or excessive naked skin and when you need to express your beauty in such a way it may be a bit immodest. It is obvious that many women choose a certain dress to show their beauty as a female human.
Difficult is where to draw the limit. But the community together draws that standard and in the western world it is okay with generous cleavage and things like that so no wonder these women protect their newfound dresscode. If something is normalized then it is difficult to change, but like I said in my previous post that if men showed their dislike at the heavy body revelation then women would change, but right now the whole community is accepting the behavior and looks except people who are seen as a minority. It is only when a majority of people show a certain thing is wrong or people of authority then a certain behavior will change.
God bless you
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Peace,
I forgot to say that this behavior must come from the women themselves through inclination rather than men forcing a certain way of dressing.
God bless you
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The full circle.
Brutes would want to have women at their disposal always and for anything, for blaming, or for sexual entertainment. They are not ashamed of that. Not ashamed at al. No rebuke not being punished, no nothing. But if they happen to have a sexual fantasy, then women must be restricted and punsihed, and a whole new clothe Qur'an invented so that women can be the scapegoat and the object too of their power delirium.
Put men in jail if the cannot behave and let decent people live their lives. Do not come to decent people with the tantrums of the sexually obssessed. They for nothing "araused" and disolute have a problem. Let them solve it and leave the rest of people uncontaminated by their filth. And nowhere the Qur'an says people cannot bathe or cannot swim or cannot give birth. Or are those troubled disolute men meaning that women should give birth with their panties on?
Salaam
Salaam
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I had boys throwing stones at me a while ago after I slapped one of them in the face when they were trying to harass me. In general, kids here harass anyone who looks in any way different, it doesn't necessarily have to do with clothing. I hear obscenities daily and even when I'm covered from head to toe.
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Peace,
Even if women decide to suddenly run around naked in the street men must be able restrain themselves. They are responsible for their actions and men for theirs. We cannot force our way of thinking on them. All we can do is showing disapproval with our body language and thus certain women will understand, but not all. But it is not easy when a majority of men accept and approve of a minimalistic dress code.
A well-trained man can endure in a society with half-naked women without problems. And one can always look the other side if it looks too extreme.
The desire to hide various parts of the woman body is up to the choice of the pious woman and not upon men. But the ideas vary between personalities and cultural origin, as where I deem it okay showing hair, arms and part of the legs my wife sees that as a bit intimate. She hides those and I do not force her to show them. I would never command a woman to hide her hair, hide legs (unless it is a mini-skirt then I would still not say anything but I would certainly not approve of her) or hide her arms.
Well. We have to respect even the immodest woman even if we do not approve and live together in harmony, in Islam. As a community is all we can do is not to show her approval, that is the most efficient way of changing the behavior of a whole society. Not sit around here on the forum whining.
But we ought not tell the woman she cannot take a bath in the sea, that is violating her rights as a human is it not?
God bless you