Alcohol/intoxicants.
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Indeed it related well with the word khmr in the Quran.
Wakas already gave linkz with good analysis bout this, as well as this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605608.msg333486#msg333486
Peace
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It doesn't take much to realize that intoxicants are destructive. They disconnect us from our Creator and render us helpless and worse. As far as the physical body is concerned, I'm sure you can live your usual, petty 70-80 years while drinking, but the poisons are certainly not helping your health in any way. It's good for absolutely nothing, and any perceived benefits are just very temporary and doubtful symptom treatments anyway. If you're tempted by the rush from alcohol, then there's much wonderful you haven't yet discovered about life, the world and yourself. Only someone ignorant, even if you are in pain, would give away your amazing powers that are your birth right as a human being. Unfortunately, 98% of us as ignorant, whether religious or not...
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http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/alcohol-is-forbidden.htm
http//quransmessage.com/articles/intoxicationhttp//misconceptions-about-islam.com/alcohol-is-forbidden.htm
In other words - there are no real misconceptions. After all it was Arabs that gave "Alcohol" its name. Pure alcohol is a useful chemical and is used in various capacities. However, drinking the stuff is forbidden.
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Well I myself don't drink it. I know of the negative health affects it can have on the body. I have no problem showing up at a party and rejecting alcohol no matter how persistent they are. All I wanted to clarify for myself was the quranic view of it, and after reading the relative verses, i've concluded for myself that the representative word is vaque, as in it isn't referring to just alcohol, it's referring to intoxicants in general, so it includes plants, drinks etc and basically not using them to intoxicate yourself. Cannibus has shown to exhibit excellent medicinal properties and alcohol can act as a very good disinfectant.
There is one question I would like to ask as well. I see on many cooking shows, the chefs add wine to their food. Does the alcoholic substance evaporate or remain in the dish? and would that be considered as an intoxicant, despite it's intention to be that of something useful rather than just being a fool?
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There is one question I would like to ask as well. I see on many cooking shows, the chefs add wine to their food. Does the alcoholic substance evaporate or remain in the dish? and would that be considered as an intoxicant, despite it's intention to be that of something useful rather than just being a fool?
Some alcohol evaporates during cooking. Depends on the duration, the size of the pan and the heat at which it's cooked apparently
http//cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/659/cooking-away-alcohol etc...
Depends on what amount would intoxicate the individual. I'm pretty sure that most recipes that call for it aren't causing people to get sloshed if they eat it. I know that I've never felt any different (other than immensely satisfied) after ingesting teriyaki, then again, could be I'm just naturally high on life.
peace
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Well I myself don't drink it. I know of the negative health affects it can have on the body. I have no problem showing up at a party and rejecting alcohol no matter how persistent they are. All I wanted to clarify for myself was the quranic view of it, and after reading the relative verses, i've concluded for myself that the representative word is vaque, as in it isn't referring to just alcohol, it's referring to intoxicants in general, so it includes plants, drinks etc and basically not using them to intoxicate yourself. Cannibus has shown to exhibit excellent medicinal properties and alcohol can act as a very good disinfectant.
There is one question I would like to ask as well. I see on many cooking shows, the chefs add wine to their food. Does the alcoholic substance evaporate or remain in the dish? and would that be considered as an intoxicant, despite it's intention to be that of something useful rather than just being a fool?
So what parties are you going to . . . laugh
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Greetings and Peace, all group
It is best to avoid extremes.
To avoid all alcohol, one would have to avoid many good things--fruit juice, bread, etc. Even then, there is endogenous alcohol production--some people even have a medical condition where they get drunk from endogenous fermentation.
To avoid all intoxicants is impossible. Water is an intoxicant. Oxygen is an intoxicant. To claim that these are not intoxicants is making an argument that alcohol is only an intoxicant when it leads to intoxication.
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." And they ask you how much they are to give, say "The excess." It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.
443 O you who believe, do not approach the contact prayer while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. GOD is Pardoning, Forgiving.
590 O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and sacraments, and fortunes are an affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering GOD and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?
6145 Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me to be unlawful for any eater to eat except that it be already dead, or running blood, or the meat of pig - for it is foul - or what is a wickedness, dedicated to other than GOD." But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
732 Say "Who has made unlawful the nice things that GOD has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.
4715 Is the example of the Paradise; that the righteous have been promised with rivers of pure water, and rivers of milk whose taste does not change, and rivers of wine that are delicious for the drinkers, and rivers of strained honey, and for them in it are all kinds of fruits, and a forgiveness from their Lord; like that of those who abide in the Fire, and are given to drink boiling water that cuts-up their intestines?
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Just for clarification, is anyone saying that it is ok to consume alcoholic beverages? Putting aside things with a minute percentage of alcohol like bread or fruit, and also situations where alcohol is used for cooking, mouth and handwashes etc, purely in terms of drinking an alcoholic drink that is advertised as an alcoholic drink and is illegal to sell to minors, is anyone saying you can consume that? Do you believe I would be allowed to buy a can of bear or drink a glass of wine etc?
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Just for clarification, is anyone saying that it is ok to consume alcoholic beverages? Putting aside things with a minute percentage of alcohol like bread or fruit, and also situations where alcohol is used for cooking, mouth and handwashes etc, purely in terms of drinking an alcoholic drink that is advertised as an alcoholic drink and is illegal to sell to minors, is anyone saying you can consume that? Do you believe I would be allowed to buy a can of bear or drink a glass of wine etc?
There are, here, some that do permit it. However, overwhelming majority of Muslims consider it completely forbidden for consumption.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Just for clarification, is anyone saying that it is ok to consume alcoholic beverages? Putting aside things with a minute percentage of alcohol like bread or fruit, and also situations where alcohol is used for cooking, mouth and handwashes etc, purely in terms of drinking an alcoholic drink that is advertised as an alcoholic drink and is illegal to sell to minors, is anyone saying you can consume that? Do you believe I would be allowed to buy a can of bear or drink a glass of wine etc?
The ayat speak for themselves.
My personal understanding based on my best understanding is that alcohol is not prohibited. We are warned about it, that it can be a tool used by Satan. What tool can't be used by Satan? hmm
So long as you are not prohibited by either law (under 21 in United States) or conscience (an individual matter) or medical necessity (drug interactions etc.), then drink what you like. Oh, don't pray while intoxicated. )
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
The ayat speak for themselves.
My personal understanding based on my best understanding is that alcohol is not prohibited. We are warned about it, that it can be a tool used by Satan. What tool can't be used by Satan? hmm
So long as you are not prohibited by either law (under 21 in United States) or conscience (an individual matter) or medical necessity (drug interactions etc.), then drink what you like. Oh, don't pray while intoxicated. )
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
Agreed .
And if it is not explicitly mentioned as haram/forbidden (which it is not), then automatically it is halal/lawful, but as Abdul said, there's a warning about its benefits and disadvantages.
peace
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socially spirits are about the hardest drug there is. not each person that tries or consume a drug become addicts but it is for sure that alcohol has been and it is of the most severe social sanitary plagues there are and there has been. it is fine to think it does not harm ME why not but the fact is that you do not know when it may turn into harmin you if for instance you get into a time of great emotional sufferin and distressv and what is sure is that the believers do not act merely for their own sake but also for the ommon good and common peace and health and when they waive the "bebefits" of alcohol they are helpin other more vulnerable people to keep away from it. that is as far as i can see why we are tolf what we are told. we are at the very least warned and discouraged from alcohol and that its harm outweights any benefit. sayin it is not haram and therefore nothing happens amounts to mockin the qur'an whhich addresses us as adults capable of taking responsible decisions while we p`refer to be children that need to be prohibited things because they lack any judgement ha
playin a game of haram against halal with the qur'an and refusin to reflect and weight on what the qur'an exactly says and what we ourselves are able to see in reality and take responsibility for our own decisions is to disregard the qur'an.
we are free too drink or not to drink, but we better be sure of what we do because it is not inocuous and we are indeed responsible. "It is not haram" is no alibi.
salaam
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I understand huruf. I was just saying the bottom line is it's not forbidden, so saying it's forbidden is wrong hence why I was pointing that out. Abdul correctly states the Qur'an warns us against it. I know it's not a good idea to drink if you're sad or depressed, and many other reasons why you shouldn't drink but if you do, then that's your choice, it's not going against anything, it's your life choice but baring in mind that you've been warned of its abilities...
Peace
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no, it is not that. the question is whether one forbids oneself to drink for the social goal of prevebting those who are more vulnerable to fall into drinking, which is a social disease. what the environment does matters and helps the people or doesn't help. so again, that it is forbiden or not is zilch. if someone does not understand why one shuld abstain from drinking the fact that he canno find a magical word which says forbidden is not going to improve his soul at all.
we know fobidding alkohol by law, human or divine, is not going to stop people from drinking, only the conscious self interdiction by as many people as possible of such a harmful drug can help society in general to be rescued from its addiction and social anf familiar break ups and sufferin that it brings with it.
salaam
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Peace,
Worst is when people drink heavier stuff than wine in my opinion. It is the only kind of alcohol I would consume. But I consume no alcohol at all since 2008 because of the fact I saw no satisfaction in it, and that was before I accepted the religious prohibition from "Islam". Many people cannot control their drinking however and they change their personality while intoxicated etc, so God is right when talking about it causing animosity because it causes lots of fighting and so on. And many people commit other lewdness such as adultery etc under the intoxication.
Other than those problems alcohol has a thinning effect on the blood and you gradually have adverse health effects and spoil becoming at your best physically. And it also may cause lasting brain damage.
Drinking alcohol is practically like consuming a chemical that dilutes the blood and is not recommended for a sportsman for example or someone who wants to exercise or stay in good shape. Alcohol is like consuming a disinfectant.
Quite funny is it not?
God bless you
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no, it is not that. the question is whether one forbids oneself to drink for the social goal of prevebting those who are more vulnerable to fall into drinking, which is a social disease. what the environment does matters and helps the people or doesn't help. so again, that it is forbiden or not is zilch. if someone does not understand why one shuld abstain from drinking the fact that he canno find a magical word which says forbidden is not going to improve his soul at all.
we know fobidding alkohol by law, human or divine, is not going to stop people from drinking, only the conscious self interdiction by as many people as possible of such a harmful drug can help society in general to be rescued from its addiction and social anf familiar break ups and sufferin that it brings with it.
salaam
I agree, you I've to realise yourself why drinking alcohol is bad for you. It's like I drink it once in a while, but I don't like it that much and usually it's about my mood which brings me to it. But I think realising its not good for you is the main point. It's like currently I'm in the justification process of not eating pork. I don't eat it cos I don't like it, but we are told it's forbidden. I haven't got as much scientific evidence as I would have liked to justify this so I need to see the negatives and how it affects a person in a negative sense.
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I agree, you I've to realise yourself why drinking alcohol is bad for you. It's like I drink it once in a while, but I don't like it that much and usually it's about my mood which brings me to it. But I think realising its not good for you is the main point. It's like currently I'm in the justification process of not eating pork. I don't eat it cos I don't like it, but we are told it's forbidden. I haven't got as much scientific evidence as I would have liked to justify this so I need to see the negatives and how it affects a person in a negative sense.
Peace,
People have been drinking beer and wine for thousands of years especially during colonization 1600's they drank more beer than water even kids since water wasn't safe and had all sorts of water-born diseases same as today in parts of the world.
To comment on eating pig, not about health reasons same with healthiest finest foods dedicated to idols, we are told not to consciously do it and leave it be unless starving or forced (even if all freedoms are taken one has choice to agree/disagree).
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Peace,
People have been drinking beer and wine for thousands of years especially during colonization 1600's they drank more beer than water even kids since water wasn't safe and had all sorts of water-born diseases same as today in parts of the world.
To comment on eating pig, not about health reasons same with healthiest finest foods dedicated to idols, we are told not to consciously do it and leave it be unless starving or forced (even if all freedoms are taken one has choice to agree/disagree).
I suppose I should say that alcohol is bad when going beyond moderation levels. Because after a while your body starts to take effect.
In terms of the pig, why the pig though? I can understand finest foods being dedicated to other gods because you're not showing your appreciation or remembrance to the one who created the food, but why was pork specifically forbidden. That's the modern question people ask.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
I suppose I should say that alcohol is bad when going beyond moderation levels. Because after a while your body starts to take effect.
In terms of the pig, why the pig though? I can understand finest foods being dedicated to other gods because you're not showing your appreciation or remembrance to the one who created the food, but why was pork specifically forbidden. That's the modern question people ask.
I don't want to turn this into a pork thread, but it is likely that there aren't compelling scientific reasons why we are to abstain from pork meat--and yes, I am well aware of the biology and science related to swine. If there is such a reason, it is probably more related to the production of swine. Producing swine in quantity facilitates disease (rodents with associated diseases, fly borne diseases from raw sewage, swine flu, swine brucellosis, etc.)
http//www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Species/swine.php
2267 For every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.
267 And Moses said to his people "GOD orders you to slaughter a heifer." They said "Do you mock us?" He said "I seek refuge with GOD that I not be of the ignorant ones."
268 They said "Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify which it is." He said "He says it is a heifer neither too old nor too young, an age between that. So now do as you are commanded."
269 They said "Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify what color it is." He said "He says it is a yellow heifer with a strong color, pleasing to those who see it."
270 They said "Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify which one it is, for the heifers all look alike to us and we will, GOD willing, be guided."
271 He said "He says it is a heifer which was never subjugated to plough the land, or water the crops, free from any blemish." They said "Now you have come with the truth." And they slaughtered it, though they had nearly not done so.
In my view, it is a rite that is to be fulfilled by those seeking to improve their relationship with ALLAH. Those who wish can make their own choice. I see it as a test. ALLAH says to do something--do we do it or do something else? Do we prevaricate like the people of Moses (peace upon ALL Prophets) did?
37 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except GOD, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.
673 And He is the One who has created the heavens and the earth with the truth, and the day He says "Be," then it is! His saying is truth; and to Him is the sovereignty the Day the trumpet is blown. Knower of the unseen and the seen; He is the Wise, the Expert.
I can't find it in myself to question Commands that are clear. Let everybody do to the best of their own understanding.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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but the qur'an does give an explanation for not eatin pork. it says it is "rijs". if we do not find it covincing as a reason it is our problem, not some lack in the qur'an and the qur'an also says that it does not prohibit good things. therefore if pig consumption is forbidden it is because it is not good.
as to the scientific stuff, it is very much a question of bias and of what and how one wants to weigh different factors. fo me pig is nauseating (as food i mean).
as to the production i agree, it is indeed rijs.
salaam