Alcohol/intoxicants.

truth_seeker_uk_1987

Just for clarification, is anyone saying that it is ok to consume alcoholic beverages? Putting aside things with a minute percentage of alcohol like bread or fruit, and also situations where alcohol is used for cooking, mouth and handwashes etc, purely in terms of drinking an alcoholic drink that is advertised as an alcoholic drink and is illegal to sell to minors, is anyone saying you can consume that? Do you believe I would be allowed to buy a can of bear or drink a glass of wine etc?

The_Chimp

Just for clarification, is anyone saying that it is ok to consume alcoholic beverages? Putting aside things with a minute percentage of alcohol like bread or fruit, and also situations where alcohol is used for cooking, mouth and handwashes etc, purely in terms of drinking an alcoholic drink that is advertised as an alcoholic drink and is illegal to sell to minors, is anyone saying you can consume that? Do you believe I would be allowed to buy a can of bear or drink a glass of wine etc?

There are, here, some that do permit it. However, overwhelming majority of Muslims consider it completely forbidden for consumption.

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

Just for clarification, is anyone saying that it is ok to consume alcoholic beverages? Putting aside things with a minute percentage of alcohol like bread or fruit, and also situations where alcohol is used for cooking, mouth and handwashes etc, purely in terms of drinking an alcoholic drink that is advertised as an alcoholic drink and is illegal to sell to minors, is anyone saying you can consume that? Do you believe I would be allowed to buy a can of bear or drink a glass of wine etc?

The ayat speak for themselves.

My personal understanding based on my best understanding is that alcohol is not prohibited. We are warned about it, that it can be a tool used by Satan. What tool can't be used by Satan? hmm

So long as you are not prohibited by either law (under 21 in United States) or conscience (an individual matter) or medical necessity (drug interactions etc.), then drink what you like. Oh, don't pray while intoxicated. )

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

sushi1992

Greetings and Peace, all group

The ayat speak for themselves.

My personal understanding based on my best understanding is that alcohol is not prohibited. We are warned about it, that it can be a tool used by Satan. What tool can't be used by Satan? hmm

So long as you are not prohibited by either law (under 21 in United States) or conscience (an individual matter) or medical necessity (drug interactions etc.), then drink what you like. Oh, don't pray while intoxicated. )

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Agreed .

And if it is not explicitly mentioned as haram/forbidden (which it is not), then automatically it is halal/lawful, but as Abdul said, there's a warning about its benefits and disadvantages.

peace

huruf

socially spirits are about the hardest drug there is. not each person that tries or consume a drug become addicts but it is for sure that alcohol has been and it is of the most severe social sanitary plagues there are and there has been. it is fine to think it does not harm ME why not but the fact is that you do not know when it may turn into harmin you if for instance you get into a time of great emotional sufferin and distressv and what is sure is that the believers do not act merely for their own sake but also for the ommon good and common peace and health and when they waive the "bebefits" of alcohol they are helpin other more vulnerable people to keep away from it. that is as far as i can see why we are tolf what we are told. we are at the very least warned and discouraged from alcohol and that its harm outweights any benefit. sayin it is not haram and therefore nothing happens amounts to mockin the qur'an whhich addresses us as adults capable of taking responsible decisions while we p`refer to be children that need to be prohibited things because they lack any judgement ha

playin a game of haram against halal with the qur'an and refusin to reflect and weight on what the qur'an exactly says and what we ourselves are able to see in reality and take responsibility for our own decisions is to disregard the qur'an.

we are free too drink or not to drink, but we better be sure of what we do because it is not inocuous and we are indeed responsible. "It is not haram" is no alibi.

salaam

sushi1992

I understand huruf. I was just saying the bottom line is it's not forbidden, so saying it's forbidden is wrong hence why I was pointing that out. Abdul correctly states the Qur'an warns us against it. I know it's not a good idea to drink if you're sad or depressed, and many other reasons why you shouldn't drink but if you do, then that's your choice, it's not going against anything, it's your life choice but baring in mind that you've been warned of its abilities...

Peace

huruf

no, it is not that. the question is whether one forbids oneself to drink for the social goal of prevebting those who are more vulnerable to fall into drinking, which is a social disease. what the environment does matters and helps the people or doesn't help. so again, that it is forbiden or not is zilch. if someone does not understand why one shuld abstain from drinking the fact that he canno find a magical word which says forbidden is not going to improve his soul at all.

we know fobidding alkohol by law, human or divine, is not going to stop people from drinking, only the conscious self interdiction by as many people as possible of such a harmful drug can help society in general to be rescued from its addiction and social anf familiar break ups and sufferin that it brings with it.

salaam

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Worst is when people drink heavier stuff than wine in my opinion. It is the only kind of alcohol I would consume. But I consume no alcohol at all since 2008 because of the fact I saw no satisfaction in it, and that was before I accepted the religious prohibition from "Islam". Many people cannot control their drinking however and they change their personality while intoxicated etc, so God is right when talking about it causing animosity because it causes lots of fighting and so on. And many people commit other lewdness such as adultery etc under the intoxication.

Other than those problems alcohol has a thinning effect on the blood and you gradually have adverse health effects and spoil becoming at your best physically. And it also may cause lasting brain damage.

Drinking alcohol is practically like consuming a chemical that dilutes the blood and is not recommended for a sportsman for example or someone who wants to exercise or stay in good shape. Alcohol is like consuming a disinfectant.

Quite funny is it not?

God bless you

sushi1992

no, it is not that. the question is whether one forbids oneself to drink for the social goal of prevebting those who are more vulnerable to fall into drinking, which is a social disease. what the environment does matters and helps the people or doesn't help. so again, that it is forbiden or not is zilch. if someone does not understand why one shuld abstain from drinking the fact that he canno find a magical word which says forbidden is not going to improve his soul at all.

we know fobidding alkohol by law, human or divine, is not going to stop people from drinking, only the conscious self interdiction by as many people as possible of such a harmful drug can help society in general to be rescued from its addiction and social anf familiar break ups and sufferin that it brings with it.

salaam

I agree, you I've to realise yourself why drinking alcohol is bad for you. It's like I drink it once in a while, but I don't like it that much and usually it's about my mood which brings me to it. But I think realising its not good for you is the main point. It's like currently I'm in the justification process of not eating pork. I don't eat it cos I don't like it, but we are told it's forbidden. I haven't got as much scientific evidence as I would have liked to justify this so I need to see the negatives and how it affects a person in a negative sense.

Noon_waalqalami

I agree, you I've to realise yourself why drinking alcohol is bad for you. It's like I drink it once in a while, but I don't like it that much and usually it's about my mood which brings me to it. But I think realising its not good for you is the main point. It's like currently I'm in the justification process of not eating pork. I don't eat it cos I don't like it, but we are told it's forbidden. I haven't got as much scientific evidence as I would have liked to justify this so I need to see the negatives and how it affects a person in a negative sense.

Peace,

People have been drinking beer and wine for thousands of years especially during colonization 1600's they drank more beer than water even kids since water wasn't safe and had all sorts of water-born diseases same as today in parts of the world.

To comment on eating pig, not about health reasons same with healthiest finest foods dedicated to idols, we are told not to consciously do it and leave it be unless starving or forced (even if all freedoms are taken one has choice to agree/disagree).

sushi1992

Peace,

People have been drinking beer and wine for thousands of years especially during colonization 1600's they drank more beer than water even kids since water wasn't safe and had all sorts of water-born diseases same as today in parts of the world.

To comment on eating pig, not about health reasons same with healthiest finest foods dedicated to idols, we are told not to consciously do it and leave it be unless starving or forced (even if all freedoms are taken one has choice to agree/disagree).

I suppose I should say that alcohol is bad when going beyond moderation levels. Because after a while your body starts to take effect.

In terms of the pig, why the pig though? I can understand finest foods being dedicated to other gods because you're not showing your appreciation or remembrance to the one who created the food, but why was pork specifically forbidden. That's the modern question people ask.

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

I suppose I should say that alcohol is bad when going beyond moderation levels. Because after a while your body starts to take effect.

In terms of the pig, why the pig though? I can understand finest foods being dedicated to other gods because you're not showing your appreciation or remembrance to the one who created the food, but why was pork specifically forbidden. That's the modern question people ask.

I don't want to turn this into a pork thread, but it is likely that there aren't compelling scientific reasons why we are to abstain from pork meat--and yes, I am well aware of the biology and science related to swine. If there is such a reason, it is probably more related to the production of swine. Producing swine in quantity facilitates disease (rodents with associated diseases, fly borne diseases from raw sewage, swine flu, swine brucellosis, etc.)

http//www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Species/swine.php

2267 For every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

267 And Moses said to his people "GOD orders you to slaughter a heifer." They said "Do you mock us?" He said "I seek refuge with GOD that I not be of the ignorant ones."

268 They said "Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify which it is." He said "He says it is a heifer neither too old nor too young, an age between that. So now do as you are commanded."

269 They said "Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify what color it is." He said "He says it is a yellow heifer with a strong color, pleasing to those who see it."

270 They said "Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify which one it is, for the heifers all look alike to us and we will, GOD willing, be guided."

271 He said "He says it is a heifer which was never subjugated to plough the land, or water the crops, free from any blemish." They said "Now you have come with the truth." And they slaughtered it, though they had nearly not done so.

In my view, it is a rite that is to be fulfilled by those seeking to improve their relationship with ALLAH. Those who wish can make their own choice. I see it as a test. ALLAH says to do something--do we do it or do something else? Do we prevaricate like the people of Moses (peace upon ALL Prophets) did?

37 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except GOD, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.

673 And He is the One who has created the heavens and the earth with the truth, and the day He says "Be," then it is! His saying is truth; and to Him is the sovereignty the Day the trumpet is blown. Knower of the unseen and the seen; He is the Wise, the Expert.

I can't find it in myself to question Commands that are clear. Let everybody do to the best of their own understanding.

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

huruf

but the qur'an does give an explanation for not eatin pork. it says it is "rijs". if we do not find it covincing as a reason it is our problem, not some lack in the qur'an and the qur'an also says that it does not prohibit good things. therefore if pig consumption is forbidden it is because it is not good.

as to the scientific stuff, it is very much a question of bias and of what and how one wants to weigh different factors. fo me pig is nauseating (as food i mean).

as to the production i agree, it is indeed rijs.

salaam

sushi1992