Alcohol/intoxicants.
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Peace,
a?void/vd/
verb (used with object)
- to keep away from; keep clear of; shun to avoid a person; to avoid taxes; to avoid danger.
- to prevent from happening to avoid falling.
for?bid?den/frbdn, fr-/ Show Spelled Show IPA
verb-
a past participle of forbid.
adjective -
not allowed; prohibited a forbidden food in his religion.
As far as the pig is concerned.....I hear and obey
The key word of 5/90 is successful/prosper, staying away from vices like gambling
and intoxicants helps to straiten the focus on what is important. Success is to focus on God by not having the
mind befogged by things that cover or block the mind from thinking clearly. Such things as wishful wealth
(gambling) are to be avoided as God is provider if you believe. Having said that, things that are intoxicating
are not forbidden because medicine can befog the mind and have the effects of recreational drug use and in
our zeal to please God, a devotee would abstain from taking medicine. What is to be avoided is intoxication
for the sake of being "high" or drunk by any means rather by smoke, injection, pill, snorting, anal insertion,
skin absorption or even eye drops for the sake of covering, numbing the senses to avoid life as it is. Be sober!God bless
peace
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so if i understand correctly, if we live in a society under quranic rule, it means intoxicants would be legal and accessible, as the quran doesn't say we have to ban them, but shouldn't consume
at which point do we step in? say the people starts to consuming too much, should it be banned by authorities as we do in our current societies? -
Aoa
I don't want to turn this into a pork thread, but it is likely that there aren't compelling scientific reasons why we are to abstain from pork meat--and yes, I am well aware of the biology and science related to swine. If there is such a reason, it is probably more related to the production of swine. Producing swine in quantity facilitates disease (rodents with associated diseases, fly borne diseases from raw sewage, swine flu, swine brucellosis, etc.)
Interesting! So we have reached pinnacle of scientific knowledge? How do we know in10, 20 or even hundreds of yrs from now we won't discover solid scientific reason. Whether it emerges or not does not alter the fact that consumption of pork, Koranically, is not allowed. If you do not believe then it is a pointless discussion to argue scientifically on this thread.
Regards -
so if i understand correctly, if we live in a society under quranic rule, it means intoxicants would be legal and accessible, as the quran doesn't say we have to ban them, but shouldn't consume
at which point do we step in? say the people starts to consuming too much, should it be banned by authorities as we do in our current societies?If we are warned against Alcohol - then why should it be legal or accessible? Why would you make beverages that you cannot consume?
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There's nowhere where the Quran says you cannot consume alcohol. Warning against doesn't mean it's forbidden.
Even without prohibition, the Quran (word of God) asks us to avoid intoxicants. Example, Sushi do not go
to town using Wolf road on foot and unprotected because there are bears on both sides. Would such a warning
suffice? Or would you conclude, the road is not prohibited, so I'll go to town on foot and unprotected!
Even if you took a weapon, that would indicate that you took the warning seriously and took
necessary steps by heeding the warning.He is the One who granted you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brains. Rarely are you appreciative.
God bless
peace
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There's nowhere where the Quran says you cannot consume alcohol. Warning against doesn't mean it's forbidden.
I am not going to repeat the verses - they are NOT just warnings but clear prohibition. What do you think stay away from means? What do you think saying these things are works of Satan means?
Of course the Quran says avoid alcohol.
Commands - direct commands are given in the form of the imperative verb and they denote direct commands. One cannot re-interpret verses according their own desire. . . that is not how it works. You submit to the commands and make them submit to your self .
But you are free to do and think what you like . . . but come on - you know deep down Quran - clearly forbids Alcohol.
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Salaam the Chimp.
What madzab of Sunni you belong to?
I former Sunni of Maliki sect and my ulamas don't take the alcohol as haram, depend on for what we used it for.
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Salaam the Chimp.
What madzab of Sunni you belong to?
I former Sunni of Maliki sect and my ulamas don't take the alcohol as haram, depend on for what we used it for.
Malikis forbid alcohol and they are very strict upon this. Else, who are you talking about?
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Malikis forbid alcohol and they are very strict upon this. Else, who are you talking about?
Really?? Where are you came from??
Do u really understand the word "khmr"?? -
Really what?
What is your hujah if alcohol is forbidden??
In hadith never written if alcohol is haram instead khmr.
Khmr according to hadith fiqh means something which make us intoxicated, not just limited to alcohol.
If you eat some junk foods then you became intoxicated, this mean that junk food is also a khmr.Lancashire - United Kingdom.
Jemaat Tabligh and Hizbut Tahrir have main roles on Islamic development in UK.Are you belong to them?
Hizbut Tahrir is very known for it's extreme way to create a fatwa, more close to Wahabi. -
What is your hujah if alcohol is forbidden??
Quran - verse already given - see previous post.
In hadith never written if alcohol is haram instead khmr.
? We aint discussing Hadith.
Khmr according to hadith fiqh means something which make us intoxicated, not just limited to alcohol.
Sources? Evidence?
Khmr refers to "intoxicating beverages" exactly. And also refers to "intoxication". Source Arabic dictionaries and Quran.
If you eat some junk foods then you became intoxicated, this mean that junk food is also a khmr.
? No one becomes intoxicated from Junk food.
Jemaat Tabligh and Hizbut Tahrir have main roles on Islamic development in UK.Are you belong to them?
Hizbut Tahrir is very known for it's extreme way to create a fatwa, more close to Wahabi.No.
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Quran - verse already given - see previous post.
We aint discussing Hadith.One Quran but have different way of intepretations.
You used Sunni version of talq hadith, then it's wrong I also used hadith?Sources? Evidence?
Khmr refers to "intoxicating beverages" exactly. And also refers to "intoxication". Source Arabic dictionaries and Quran.
Is alcohol used in medical also an "intoxication".
Grape is halal but when we used it as wine, it's different story.No one becomes intoxicated from Junk food.
Just an analogy.
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I think some people try really hard to find a loophole in the regulations. Worse case scenario, it's advice, and we should adhere to it because as a beverage, alcohol is in no way good for you. But for other purposes I think it's okay, like a disinfectant for example.
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One Quran but have different way of intepretations.
And what is your way?
You used Sunni version of talq hadith, then it's wrong I also used hadith?
No I didn't. I don't really know what you are talking about.
Is alcohol used in medical also an "intoxication".
Grape is halal but when we used it as wine, it's different story.You are confusing different issues.
Just an analogy.
No it isn't. The word Analogy means something else.
"a process of arguing from similarity in known respects to similarity in other respects."
Junk food does not make on intoxicated . . . so where is the analogy?
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I am not going to repeat the verses - they are NOT just warnings but clear prohibition. What do you think stay away from means? What do you think saying these things are works of Satan means?
Of course the Quran says avoid alcohol.
Commands - direct commands are given in the form of the imperative verb and they denote direct commands. One cannot re-interpret verses according their own desire. . . that is not how it works. You submit to the commands and make them submit to your self .
But you are free to do and think what you like . . . but come on - you know deep down Quran - clearly forbids Alcohol.
No i do not "deep down" think the Quran forbids it because it isn't one of the prohibited items. Allah tells us to stay away from many things and gives us the reasons why, but that does NOT mean it's prohibited.
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No i do not "deep down" think the Quran forbids it because it isn't one of the prohibited items. Allah tells us to stay away from many things and gives us the reasons why, but that does NOT mean it's prohibited.
Huh?
Prohibit "formally forbid (something) by law, rule, or other authority."
Forbid "refuse to allow (something)."
If Alcohol isn't forbidden - then what is it? And what do you mean
"it isn't one of the prohibited items"
Of course it's forbidden. The verse makes it clear - by a direct command. There is no room maneuver. The verses are emphatic
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, Of Satan?s handiwork Eschew such (abomination) that ye may prosper.
Satan?s plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of God, and from prayer Will ye not then refrain? (Al Maeda; 590-1)
Look how strong these verses are . . . and now answer and answer properly. If this isn't prohibition - then what is it?
- It is prohibited by the "content " of the verses.
- The grammatical form employed is the one employed to give direct command.
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peace all,
I think some people (on both sides of the debate) seem to assign some sort of special status to this word "haram" (~forbidden) as if that is the strongest word The Quran could use. Note that even "haram" things are allowed under certain circumstances, see 2173.
This is a good article
http//quransmessage.com/articles/intoxication%20FM3.htmAnd
http//learn-about-islam.com/2011/10/31/alcohol-is-forbidden/ -
In the end we will be fairly judged anyway, by our Creator.
In the meantime, people will judge us according to their own beliefs, wishes, experience and understanding.The wise person will avoid anything which feels bad, or which is obviously detrimental despite feeling good at some level. Actually we don't even need to get all the terminology correctly defined and all prohibition and permissions correctly outlined from holy texts. All we need is pure honesty, clear-sightedness and some knowledge and wisdom, which of course includes the rare thing called common sense. With this we can easily navigate in the world. The problem is when we fall for temptation, because we don't know ourselves enough to avoid it, and because we are ignorant about the bigger picture which would give us more than enough reasons for avoiding the temptations. All in all, our problems, mistakes, suffering and vices often come from ignorance... blindness. Actually, ignorance is widespread... and is like a hallmark of the human race. We are all ignorant in different ways.
Whether alcohol is permitted, discouraged or prohibited... one would in any case be wise enough to avoid it. It should not need to take a book to tell us that it is detrimental, but I guess it does.
I'm also not a fan of those who insist on the badness of alcohol purely on the basis of a text. Even if they are right, it is not based wisdom or insight.... what if their text is interpreted wrongly?
Peace all!
