Alcohol/intoxicants.
-
There's nowhere where the Quran says you cannot consume alcohol. Warning against doesn't mean it's forbidden.
Even without prohibition, the Quran (word of God) asks us to avoid intoxicants. Example, Sushi do not go
to town using Wolf road on foot and unprotected because there are bears on both sides. Would such a warning
suffice? Or would you conclude, the road is not prohibited, so I'll go to town on foot and unprotected!
Even if you took a weapon, that would indicate that you took the warning seriously and took
necessary steps by heeding the warning.He is the One who granted you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brains. Rarely are you appreciative.
God bless
peace
-
There's nowhere where the Quran says you cannot consume alcohol. Warning against doesn't mean it's forbidden.
I am not going to repeat the verses - they are NOT just warnings but clear prohibition. What do you think stay away from means? What do you think saying these things are works of Satan means?
Of course the Quran says avoid alcohol.
Commands - direct commands are given in the form of the imperative verb and they denote direct commands. One cannot re-interpret verses according their own desire. . . that is not how it works. You submit to the commands and make them submit to your self .
But you are free to do and think what you like . . . but come on - you know deep down Quran - clearly forbids Alcohol.
-
-
Salaam the Chimp.
What madzab of Sunni you belong to?
I former Sunni of Maliki sect and my ulamas don't take the alcohol as haram, depend on for what we used it for.
-
Salaam the Chimp.
What madzab of Sunni you belong to?
I former Sunni of Maliki sect and my ulamas don't take the alcohol as haram, depend on for what we used it for.
Malikis forbid alcohol and they are very strict upon this. Else, who are you talking about?
-
Malikis forbid alcohol and they are very strict upon this. Else, who are you talking about?
Really?? Where are you came from??
Do u really understand the word "khmr"?? -
Really what?
What is your hujah if alcohol is forbidden??
In hadith never written if alcohol is haram instead khmr.
Khmr according to hadith fiqh means something which make us intoxicated, not just limited to alcohol.
If you eat some junk foods then you became intoxicated, this mean that junk food is also a khmr.Lancashire - United Kingdom.
Jemaat Tabligh and Hizbut Tahrir have main roles on Islamic development in UK.Are you belong to them?
Hizbut Tahrir is very known for it's extreme way to create a fatwa, more close to Wahabi. -
What is your hujah if alcohol is forbidden??
Quran - verse already given - see previous post.
In hadith never written if alcohol is haram instead khmr.
? We aint discussing Hadith.
Khmr according to hadith fiqh means something which make us intoxicated, not just limited to alcohol.
Sources? Evidence?
Khmr refers to "intoxicating beverages" exactly. And also refers to "intoxication". Source Arabic dictionaries and Quran.
If you eat some junk foods then you became intoxicated, this mean that junk food is also a khmr.
? No one becomes intoxicated from Junk food.
Jemaat Tabligh and Hizbut Tahrir have main roles on Islamic development in UK.Are you belong to them?
Hizbut Tahrir is very known for it's extreme way to create a fatwa, more close to Wahabi.No.
-
-
Quran - verse already given - see previous post.
We aint discussing Hadith.One Quran but have different way of intepretations.
You used Sunni version of talq hadith, then it's wrong I also used hadith?Sources? Evidence?
Khmr refers to "intoxicating beverages" exactly. And also refers to "intoxication". Source Arabic dictionaries and Quran.
Is alcohol used in medical also an "intoxication".
Grape is halal but when we used it as wine, it's different story.No one becomes intoxicated from Junk food.
Just an analogy.
-
I think some people try really hard to find a loophole in the regulations. Worse case scenario, it's advice, and we should adhere to it because as a beverage, alcohol is in no way good for you. But for other purposes I think it's okay, like a disinfectant for example.
-
One Quran but have different way of intepretations.
And what is your way?
You used Sunni version of talq hadith, then it's wrong I also used hadith?
No I didn't. I don't really know what you are talking about.
Is alcohol used in medical also an "intoxication".
Grape is halal but when we used it as wine, it's different story.You are confusing different issues.
Just an analogy.
No it isn't. The word Analogy means something else.
"a process of arguing from similarity in known respects to similarity in other respects."
Junk food does not make on intoxicated . . . so where is the analogy?
-
-
I am not going to repeat the verses - they are NOT just warnings but clear prohibition. What do you think stay away from means? What do you think saying these things are works of Satan means?
Of course the Quran says avoid alcohol.
Commands - direct commands are given in the form of the imperative verb and they denote direct commands. One cannot re-interpret verses according their own desire. . . that is not how it works. You submit to the commands and make them submit to your self .
But you are free to do and think what you like . . . but come on - you know deep down Quran - clearly forbids Alcohol.
No i do not "deep down" think the Quran forbids it because it isn't one of the prohibited items. Allah tells us to stay away from many things and gives us the reasons why, but that does NOT mean it's prohibited.
-
-
No i do not "deep down" think the Quran forbids it because it isn't one of the prohibited items. Allah tells us to stay away from many things and gives us the reasons why, but that does NOT mean it's prohibited.
Huh?
Prohibit "formally forbid (something) by law, rule, or other authority."
Forbid "refuse to allow (something)."
If Alcohol isn't forbidden - then what is it? And what do you mean
"it isn't one of the prohibited items"
Of course it's forbidden. The verse makes it clear - by a direct command. There is no room maneuver. The verses are emphatic
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, Of Satan?s handiwork Eschew such (abomination) that ye may prosper.
Satan?s plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of God, and from prayer Will ye not then refrain? (Al Maeda; 590-1)
Look how strong these verses are . . . and now answer and answer properly. If this isn't prohibition - then what is it?
- It is prohibited by the "content " of the verses.
- The grammatical form employed is the one employed to give direct command.
-
-
peace all,
I think some people (on both sides of the debate) seem to assign some sort of special status to this word "haram" (~forbidden) as if that is the strongest word The Quran could use. Note that even "haram" things are allowed under certain circumstances, see 2173.
This is a good article
http//quransmessage.com/articles/intoxication%20FM3.htmAnd
http//learn-about-islam.com/2011/10/31/alcohol-is-forbidden/ -
In the end we will be fairly judged anyway, by our Creator.
In the meantime, people will judge us according to their own beliefs, wishes, experience and understanding.The wise person will avoid anything which feels bad, or which is obviously detrimental despite feeling good at some level. Actually we don't even need to get all the terminology correctly defined and all prohibition and permissions correctly outlined from holy texts. All we need is pure honesty, clear-sightedness and some knowledge and wisdom, which of course includes the rare thing called common sense. With this we can easily navigate in the world. The problem is when we fall for temptation, because we don't know ourselves enough to avoid it, and because we are ignorant about the bigger picture which would give us more than enough reasons for avoiding the temptations. All in all, our problems, mistakes, suffering and vices often come from ignorance... blindness. Actually, ignorance is widespread... and is like a hallmark of the human race. We are all ignorant in different ways.
Whether alcohol is permitted, discouraged or prohibited... one would in any case be wise enough to avoid it. It should not need to take a book to tell us that it is detrimental, but I guess it does.
I'm also not a fan of those who insist on the badness of alcohol purely on the basis of a text. Even if they are right, it is not based wisdom or insight.... what if their text is interpreted wrongly?
Peace all!
-
Greetings and Peace, all group
peace all,
I think some people (on both sides of the debate) seem to assign some sort of special status to this word "haram" (~forbidden) as if that is the strongest word The Quran could use. Note that even "haram" things are allowed under certain circumstances, see 2173.
This is a good article
http//quransmessage.com/articles/intoxication%20FM3.htmAnd
http//learn-about-islam.com/2011/10/31/alcohol-is-forbidden/There are some good points in each of the articles. However, the first linked article in particular isn't exactly balanced and ignores some obvious points.
The first article neglects to mention that "sukr" found in 443 is also found in 222. Transposing a meaning of other than intoxicated, such as "befogged" doesn't seem to work well.
222 The moment you see it, every nursing mother will leave her suckling child, and every pregnant one will miscarry, and you will see the people while they are not , but the retribution of GOD is most severe.
The article does state "The Arabic word 'sukara' that is used is not restricted to intoxicants." Okay, so it ~can~ mean intoxicants--and/or anything else that befogs the mind.
As such, it follows that 443 can't be dismissed merely because it doesn't mention alcohol exclusively.
Also
1667 And from the fruits of the palm trees and the grapes you make wine and a good provision. In that is a sign for a people who comprehend.
Seriously, why make wine if it is prohibited? What does one do with wine? hmm
The first article claims that the example of rivers of wine in Paradise doesn't mean that it is allowed on earth. This is a dubious claim, especially in light of 732 (and the fact that it is made in 1667).
732 Say "Who has made unlawful the nice things that GOD has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.
It is somewhat hilarious to claim that something that is "satanic input" is allowed in Paradise. It is more probable that "satanic input" is conjecture.
We are warned against intoxication and excess. There are many forms of excess; one form of excess is forbidding what is not forbidden. Newsflash it takes a certain amount of intoxicant to intoxicate! This is the case with water, with oxygen, and with alcohol--all of these substances can intoxicate in sufficient quantity.
There are FM articles on this subject on the main page for consideration.
http//free-minds.org/alcohol-quran
http//free-minds.org/alcohol-forbidden-islam
Let everyone follow their own best understanding, and may ALLAH see fit to Guide us all.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
-
Abdul-Hadi
I have read your comments and you seem to support drinking of alcoholic beverages. But I have not seen anything based around the verses of 5990 and 91. These pretty emphatically ban the drinking of Alcohol.
1667 And from the fruits of the palm trees and the grapes you make wine and a good provision. In that is a sign for a people who comprehend.
Seriously, why make wine if it is prohibited? What does one do with wine?
This only refers to the fact that people make wine. And then it says "and a good provision" and then "In that is a sign for a people who comprehend." So - if you add that up and the fact that other verses explicitly prohibit wine then it is somewhat easy to see what is there to comprehend.
The first article claims that the example of rivers of wine in Paradise doesn't mean that it is allowed on earth. This is a dubious claim, especially in light of 732 (and the fact that it is made in 1667).
Yet - the "wine" and other provisions of Paradise are different to earthly paradise.
"Is the description of Paradise, which the righteous are promised, wherein are rivers of water unaltered, rivers of milk the taste of which never changes, rivers of wine delicious to those who drink, and rivers of purified honey, in which they will have from all fruits and forgiveness from their Lord, like those who abide eternally in the Fire and are given to drink scalding water that will sever their intestines?"
Quran 4715
We do not have milk whose taste doesn't change and etc.
We are warned against intoxication and excess. There are many forms of excess; one form of excess is forbidding what is not forbidden. Newsflash it takes a certain amount of intoxicant to intoxicate! This is the case with water, with oxygen, and with alcohol--all of these substances can intoxicate in sufficient quantity.
"We are not warned against" but we are asked to stay away and refrain - which is complete prohibition.
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, Of Satan?s handiwork Eschew such (abomination) that ye may prosper.
Satan?s plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of God, and from prayer Will ye not then refrain? (Al Maeda; 590-1)
Let everyone follow their own best understanding, and may ALLAH see fit to Guide us all.
In some matter such as this - one has to come to a ruling and everyone then has to follow it - else society does not work and you cannot form law. In every case you cannot have people making up their own ruling. If an action is limited to a person - then one can see personal interpretations working . . . in other matters you cannot. If everyone had their own prayer times, methods and whatnot - you can never form congregation. If everyone had their own personal rulings about theft, inheritance, marriage, etc, then how can laws be formed and ultimately formation of successful society?
-
-
Greetings and Peace, all group
Let any who "advise" or support a total prohibition on all intoxicants lead the example by abstaining from alcohol...oxygen...water, and all other intoxicants!
Everyone should gather facts and use their own faculties to decide--nobody should follow another blindly. Should anybody try to FORCE their understanding on others, the would-be-forcer is an oppressor (DIRECT violator of clear commandments), and an enemy of peace and justice. Such people are beneath contempt in this world--and the Judgment of ALLAH shall suffice for them in the next.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
-
Greetings and Peace, all group
Let any who "advise" or support a total prohibition on all intoxicants lead the example by abstaining from alcohol...oxygen...water, and all other intoxicants!
Everyone should gather facts and use their own faculties to decide--nobody should follow another blindly. Should anybody try to FORCE their understanding on others, the would-be-forcer is an oppressor (DIRECT violator of clear commandments), and an enemy of peace and justice. Such people are beneath contempt in this world--and the Judgment of ALLAH shall suffice for them in the next.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
Water and Oxygen are NOT intoxicant as such akin to alcoholic beverages. The proposition is ludicrous and outright ridiculous.
Should anybody try to FORCE their understanding on others, the would-be-forcer is an oppressor
You cannot force people to think anything that they do not want to think. But in a society - you can force them to obey laws which they DO NOT agree with.
Living in England - I have to abide by many laws that I do not agree with.
As I mentioned before - something effect society as whole others do not.
Such people are beneath contempt in this world--and the Judgment of ALLAH shall suffice for them in the next.
Is that an indirect pot-shot at me? sun
On evidence - the position that Alcohol is not forbidden in Islam extremely weak. From purely Quranic standpoint - such position is unjustifiable in the light verses from Surah Maidah.
-
