The Quran is NOT sufficient
-
Peace Ansar,
Or the fallacy of your sect which never appeared in human history until now?
False. The anti-hadith movement is as old as Hadith itself. Imam Shafi is credited for defeating these groups around the 8th centrury AD. In his greatest work, Al-Risala, one can see his polemics against the anti-hadith group at that time.
-Ams
Please open up a book on islamic history and its formation of sects. There where people who denied some parts of hadith. But they never rejected hadith totally. They always prayed the same, didnt said that haram was halal, performed the same hajj etc. Discussions arose on minor issues. Just like the 4 schools of law.
And pleaaase...give me some quotes from the risala right now. Lets see how truthful you are. And also give me some examples of the 'anti-hadith group' you are talking about.
-
Peace brother Damon,
Don't get disheartened and neither be disappointed because the prophet also suffered the same humiliation as you underwent. No one was ready to listen to him because he invited them to the Quran. Prophet had a meagre 70 followers after 13 years of preaching.
Mr. Ansar
FOLLOW that which is SENT DOWN toward you from your Lord, and follow not any patrons (HADITH WRITERS) beside Him; yet little ye are admonished. 73
The COMMAND is to FOLLOW the QURAN, but there is no COMMAND to FOLLOW any BOOK other than the Quran
HOLD thou fast wherefore to that which is REVEALED Unto thee verily thou art on the straight path. 4343
The COMMAND is to HOLD the QURAN only and verily they are on the right path. How those who HOLD BOOKS other than the Quran, be on the right path?
And verily, this (the Qur'an) is indeed a Reminder for you and your people, and you will be QUESTIONED (about it). 4344
The QURAN is a REMINDER for the PROPHET and his FOLLOWERS, where do Bukhari and his hadith stand? Muslims will be QUESTIONED about the QURAN and NOT THE HADITH OF BUKHARI
Mr. Ansar, prove that following prophet = following Bukhari and if you don't then please........
(AS OF TODAY NOT EVEN A SINGLE SCHOLAR HAS COME FORWARD WITH QURANIC EVIDENCES / VERSES TO SUBSTANTIATE THEIR CLAIM THAT "FOLLOWING THE HADITH IS AN ARTICLE OF FAITH")
FOLLOW THE PROPHET
To obey and follow the messenger means (to you) to believe in the Hadith. What do you really mean? Let us put the situation during Prophet Muhammad's days. Do you mean to say that when he frowned and turned away from the blind man, everybody frowned and turned away from 'Abd Allah Ibn Umm Maktum? Or, when he lost a tooth, everybody started pulling his or her tooth? Or, when he moved his right leg, everybody followed him? Or, when he got married for the fourth time, everybody started hunting for the fourth time? Or, when he ate the ribs of lamb, everybody rushed for the lamb's ribs? From the Hadiths, we know that the Prophet was constantly watched - even what he did in the toilet and in the bedroom were witnessed, witnessed by pious and reliable people.
What is the matter with you? How judge you? Or have you a BOOK through which you LEARN. That you shall have all that you choose? 6836/37/38
YES THE MUSLIMS LEARN FROM THE HADITH.
Yes the SUNNI Muslims have ANOTHER book, which is called " THE SAHIH LIES OF BUKHARI HADITH, and they have EVERYTHING in it FOR THEM
The QURAN is not SUFFICIENT for them because, QURAN has no sex, no vulgarity, no fantasy, no nonsense, and no idiotic and false narrations.
RIDICULE
O ye who believe! Let not some men among you LAUGH at others it may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor let some women LAUGH at others it may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) nor DRFAME nor be SARCASTIC to each other nor call each other by (offensive) NICKNAMES Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness (to be used of one) after he has believed And those who do not desist are (Indeed) doing wrong. 4911V/s
Sahih Bukhari 4435 Al Bara
The Prophet said to Hassan, "Lampoon (ridicule) them (i.e. the pagans) and Gabriel is with you."Bukhari has INSULTED the prophet, the Angel of Allah, but these blind scholars and their followers instead of RIDICULING Bukhari are REVERING him. It is shame on the Muslims who follow Bukhari.
BEST GUIDANCE
And believe no one except the one who follows your religion. Say "verily the guidance of Allah IS the guidance" 373V/s
Sahih Bukhari 8120 Tariq
'Abdullah said, "The best talk is Allah's Book (Qur'an), and the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad."Bukhari CHALLENGES Allah. Prophet's guidance is better than the guidance of Allah
Nor can you guide the blind out of their error, YOU CAN ONLY MAKE TO HEAR those who BELIEVE in Our VERSES, and who have submitted. 2781
Mr. Damon, you cannot make your mentor hear you because he does not truly believe in the verses of Allah, but Bukhari.
Thanks
-
Peace Damon
sorry to hear about your experience brother. But I admire your courage in speaking out in the face of your community's rejection.
And bro - just ignore Ansar. He's letting his shaitans get the better of him here - making posts just to rile you. Being rude to people over the internet can be a heady and addictive pastime - I pray Allah will show him a better way.
salaams
asdfjk
-
Peace Damon,
Take it easy bro, I've been somewhat in the same puddle as your are for quite some time now, occasionally worse at times.
GOD Bless.
-
After what my wife and I have been through the past year and a half with these people here, we've decided that enough's enough. Of course there will always be this kind of idolworshippers no matter where you go, but we are looking to leave Pittsburgh and going somewhere where we will not be the only GOD Alone/Quran Alone people in the city.....even if it means almost starting over from scratch.
Brother Damon
You're on Hijrat! What a Blessing from Allah!
004.100
He who forsakes his home in the cause of Allah, finds in the earth Many a refuge, wide and spacious Should he die as a refugee from home for Allah and His Messenger, His reward becomes due and sure with Allah And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.You're living as an example believing in Allah's order. You're fulfilling Allah's promise.
"Salaamun Alaikkum"
006 . 054
When those come to thee who believe in Our signs, Say "Salaamun Alaikkum" Your Lord hath inscribed for Himself mercy verily, if any of you did evil in ignorance, and thereafter repented, and amend, lo! He is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.Ansar follow him, Damon
Shun the demons.May Allah guide you
-
Salaam all,
Thanx a million for the kind words and encouragement. D May Allah Bless you all for your words and for your willingness to brave this storm.
As for you Ansar.....
One last thing, my former mentor's niece also condemed my wife for taking off the hijab and she has a child out of wedlock....as a so-called muslimah. And yet, she has a very prominent position at the Mosque I used to go to but they dismissed my wife from her position there because she refused to wear the hijab. Talk about hypocrisy!!
Good thing they did. Only good muslims should hold such prominent positions so he/she can be a good example to the muslim society
Goes to show how you and the rest of the hadithian race are nothing but dishonest hypocrites!!
According to your sunni shariah, the niece of my ex-mentor should be stoned to death for having sexual relations out of wedlock, or hang to death like they did that 16 year old girl in Iran. But you and the rest of these lying hypocrites overlook this because she is wearing a rag on her head.
How can she be a good muslimah and a good example to the muslim society when she blatantly did what Allah said not to do??!!
Oh, and I forgot to mention the young girl that the Amir of the one Mosque had illicit sex with is also a so-called muslimah. Something else for you to hypocritically think about.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon. -
Peace be upon you all,
Moderators, do we have enough evidence now that Ansar should be sent on his way? Or are we still being patient to see if he really wants to learn something. I think there were others on here who were sent on there way who were more interested in learning that he is.
Just my opinion.Brother idolfree,
Seek allah's salamath now over ansar's ignorance. If we have an edge let us prove the point to him and make him repent or retreat. He has no subject at all to out beat the truth. Throw the truth over the falsehood and the falsehood vanishes. Are we not to see this promise of allah? If we are incapable of doing such thing, is it not that we have to improve ourselves upon the truth. Let this be jihad against ansar without sword or weapon or use of discretionary powers that we have, but only with the knowledge that you aught to apply, or the wisdom that allah might grant us for our patience towards ansars and his likes.
May Allah Save Us the Dignity
And of The Forum. -
By the way, tell your wife that according to islam, so called 'quran-only people' are apostates and no longer remain muslims. A wife should be seperated from her husband then. If she doesnt seperate, she'll be living in zina.
Ansar, if you do not substantiate your views as you have stated above, with proper ayats then you are an outcast. So will you please answer the following
Allah says He alone shall purify you and there by place you on the straight path.
Follow not the majority who are astray
Follow not the fore fathers and ancestors
Follow not what is not sent down upon you
Follow Allah
Follow Prophets
Follow rasuls
Look up to Him alone for anything and everything
Never lie on Allah.Now tell me, if any of your statements fits any of the requirements that allah had mentioned in the Book.
Are you following allah or the pariahs such as buhari, muslim, abudawood and tirmithi etc.?
-
Peace idolfree,
Totally against banning Ansar, he's been such a laugh. Funny how he had a lot to write about Damon's demise, but fail to comment on the Amir shagging behind her wife's back. Probably thinks it was muta'.
Regards
-
Peace be upon you Brother Fazl and Mozmahe,
Thank you for the reminders. It just was getting to be like a fly buzzing around my ear. But I will just transcend that level. Thank you both for maintaining the path in this matter and sending me the reminder.
-
Peace Ansar,
The ahl al-kalam took a more radical line, rejecting the authority of hadith altogether. What we know of their ideas about sunna is drawn primarily from polemical works written against them. We get our first substantial views of their arguments from the writings of al-Shafii.
pg 13 of Daniel Brown's Rethinking Tradition in Modern Islamic Thought
Again, the rejection of Hadith is as old as Hadith itself. It is a simple historical fact. I don't understand why you are denying this.
-
Shafi was born in 204 AH (193 years after Prophet Muhammad's death). He was the first to argue the Prophet's sunna as a source of law, identified to authentic prophetic hadith, and give it an equal footing to The Quran. Different attitudes to sunna existed during Shafi, al-kalam (a particular group or school of thought) rejected hadith altogether in favour of The Quran alone. Shafi's view was also oppossed early by schools of jurisprudence in Hijaz, Iraq and Syria, who applied the term sunna to Muhammad, his companions and the early caliphs as well.
After Shafi, it is rare to find the term sunna applied to other than Muhammad. Al-kalam argued the sunna of Muhammad should never be allowed to rule on The Quran and described the science of hadith (as in the methods used to collect hadith) as arbitrary. Evidence of this was the hadith was filled with contradictory, blasphemous and absurd traditions."Rethinking Tradition in Modern Islamic Thought" by Daniel Brown. (p8-20)
-
Peace Damon,
Just deliver the message my brother! I?ve had some very uplifting experiences with those who used to call themselves ?sunnis? but left for reasons of their own. One person commented that I had allowed them to come back to God with God alone in the Qur'aan alone. Then there are others who call themselves Christians who are not fanatics who are open to the message. Another comment which for me was most overwhelming was from one such person. She said after our discussion that she thinks I may have changed her life. Then there was my Jewish surgeon. He asked me about religion and I asked him to tell me what he thought of God leaving aside Jewish teachings. His responses as a scientist were right in line with what is taught in the message. He kept repeating, are you sure that is what the Qur'aan teaches, in amazement. He said this was worth further investigation as he always believed this idea that God is concerned about rituals and other nonsense like shaving, circumcision etc via the Talmud were the invention of man. I have a younger brother, a scientist, who I?ve been talking to for over 30 years about what I thought was Islam, who after hearing God alone in the Qur'aan alone says we have finally found common ground and has become an enthusiastic proponent of the message and has moved on to delivering it to his friends. I?m saying all this because there are millions perhaps billions of people who would be true servants for God if they hear the true message in the reading. The others are bound by God?s immutable laws of guidance and they will not hear because they are not practical and don?t use their aqal.
My kids (grown-ups) got me a new high tech cell phone this week and we laughed about how many numbers from my old cell phone book could be left out of the new directory. I consider my new phonebook one of quality and not quantity. I used to think I wanted to leave New York City and considered it the ?belly of the beast?. Now I find it full of infinite possibilities to deliver the message. If you decide to leave, come here lol The God has not promised the convinced large numbers, He has promised them success.
-
Peace be upon you Grourself,
Very encouraging story brother! D You started my day off nicely with that advice/example.
-
Then I asked him is Quran not enough for him as a source of guidance, and he flat out told me NO! At that point, I knew it was pointless and I finally gave it up.
Peace Damon
I actually think you are giving this guy more stick than he deserves. At least he admitted that he does not believe in what the Quran says. He gave you a flat out answer! This is good.
From my experience the sunnis, before they are made aware of the truth or if you are one/they feel that you are one will come out with their flawed argument about the Quran being not fully detailed and the 'hadith' filling in the gaps. However, once made aware of the truth they play this wierd game of almost admitting straight up that they reject the Quran without ever admitting it. An example of this is the salat thing. You know what I mean, 'if the Quran is fully detailed then where is salat detailed?' This, of course, is not genuine question because what they are really asking is where is the way I do salat mentioned in the Quran.
This guy is at least genuine enough to admit his fundamental disbelief in the Quran.
About the hypocrisy thing too ; I have realised that people who believe mindless rituals (e.g. chanting incantations they don't even have to understand) are the key to salvation have little idea about everyday moral issues.
It is good that you are discussing the issues though. I mostly encounter extreme hostility and irrational and ignorant arguments. The issue is not our arguments, but their ability to listen to them.
Roshan
-
"Rethinking Tradition in Modern Islamic Thought" by Daniel Brown. (p8-20)
Peace
Just a quick message. Have you reaf the following review
http//www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521653940/qid=1105107039/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-0629851-5506522?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
It just seems to be very different to yours, but I have only had a cursory glance at both .
Roshan
-
Peace be with you Grourself and Roshan,
WOW GUYS!!! Thanx for the words and advice....you guys have really made my day. It's good that we have a forum...for times like this when we feel alone and down in the dumps.
Thanx again guys.
Salaam.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon. -
Peace Damon,
I don't have this kind of problem with people around me. But I have another kind of trouble, but nothing serious.
For example, when I told my mom that she did many unnecessary things while washing before performing Salat, and told her about the verses precisely describing what you should wash and when, she just said " I have never read the Qu'ran".
What I don't understand though, is that, although she aknowledge the fact that the Qu'ran described something different from what she did, and that the Qu'ran, the word of GOD, should be what she should follow... She just kept her old habits...
And it s like this with my whole familly, they all acknowledge what I tell them and say 'true! that's right', but nobody changes.....
Anyone can understand that? -
Peace be upon you Farouk,
Yes, the God describes this blind imitation as "blind following of the fathers". It is your job as the messenger to your people, to find ways to make it clear. Use ordinary everyday examples, try to find areas in thier lives where you notice they VERIFY someting, maybe like the change they recieve from a store purchase, etc. Ask them WHY they verified if they recieved correct change, etc. This is not the best example but I am sure can can find soem good ones if you observe them long enough. And just keep making them question thier processes. Then relate it back to the MOST IMPORTANT TOPIC that should be verified.
Again , the above is not the best example, but just trying to give you an idea of one way to apprach this. The Job of the messenger is to make it clear.
-
Thank you for the advice,
I had been a sunni for most of my life, which didnt prevent me from dating an hardcore atheist (she had been an atheist for as long as I had been a sunni). After many debates, she once called me and told me she now believed in God, and then was muslim, we are currently engaged and plan to marry soon.
I don't see how I could have convinced her, and i finally came to the conclusion that I did absolutely nothing, GOD did.
Somewhere I think it was God's will to make us meet, I think I needed a "fresh eye", someone with no habit or traditions with Islam to make me read the Qu'ran in a different angle.
Anyway, she is the one who pointed me to your website, and what i read here made perfect sense to me. That's why I will now say I am a muslilm (not just a sunni muslim).
And that makes sense If you read something in the Qu'ran, and something different in the Hadiths, who is right?
That's at least the question i keep asking my parents. They agree, but their habits are strong, I guess.
