What is Islam?

muslims

Iblees
He refused <- Main Premise Disobedience
and was arrogant <- Secondary Premise The God inside ourselves (2543) (4523) (334)
and became of the disbelievers <- Conclusion The main reason why Allah destined certain people to become the disbelievers
(234) Yes, "destined".. because Allah Knower of all things, and no one can fool Allah

And you cannot guide the blind away from their error
You will only make hear those who believe in Our verses
so they are Muslims <- Reason for receiving guidance from Allah, ie. always ready to obey Allah
(3053) Otherwise, no use for Allah to guide them.. waste of time

Now, as a matter of philosophical statement...

This is the self

the number one enemy that's been living in our bodies

our ego or arrogance

(final stage or battle)

http//www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/jtwpd.png

We will understand reality once we are able to kill the above monster...

but how can we kill if we can't even realize that he is existed in ourselves?

The invisible enemy.... tempt

http//s12.postimg.org/kyqnw00yh/glass.png

and it is surely against positivism, nope.. totally not that one.. nope

Surely this is indeed what is the evident trial
(<a href="http//quran.com/37/106">37106</a&gt

Do the people think
that they will be left to say,
"We believe"
and they will not be tried?

But We have certainly tried those before them
and Allah will surely make evident
those who are truthful
and He will surely make evident
the liars

Or do those who do evil deeds think they can outrun Us?
Evil is what they judge
(<a href="http//quran.com/29/2-4">292-4</a&gt

Or do you think that you will enter Paradise
while such has not yet come to you
as came to those who passed on before you?

They were touched by poverty
and hardship
and were shaken
until messenger
and those who believed with him said
"When is the help of Allah ?"
Unquestionably, the help of Allah is near
(<a href="http//quran.com/2/214">2214</a&gt

muslims

I believe the true meaning of Islam is not "Submission"
The true meaning of Islam is "Assimilation"

This is so since Allah's commands and prohibitions have its awwaliyah (priority)
it takes time for its implementation
and it has no end or beginning

Looks around and see
How a seed grows into tree
How baby grows into an adult
How a drop of water becoming rivers and oceans
How Allah creates this universe etc...

It all has its steps and takes time to be implemented

Contradictorily, submission will create tension in the society for conflict of human values
Submission will creates sectarianism, religions, conflicts and wars etc
Submission is focusing on compliance and targeting the end or perfection
Submission is religion

On the other hand, "assimilation" are focusing on the value of balance and justice in the society
Assimilation will create peace and harmony
Assimilation is not conformity, and it is not uniformity
Assimilation brings new elements to mix and neutralize other elements
Assimilation has no end, and it has no beginning
It is beauty and perfection, and it is the deen (system of life)
It is the Deen of Islam

mohamad_itani

islam=?
deen=?
iman=?
kufur=?
they all belong to the same group. to know one you must know the other.
this is not about ideology .i will not post the meanings for it is clear in the Quran.
look up KUFUR and the result .
and look up Iman and the results.
then one will know what is islam .
you are right islam does not mean submission.the word in engish does not do the quranic word justice and results in a weak translation.
peace to you all.

David_Saidi

Agreed

The word "Islam" even it has root sad-lam-mim like salam, sallama, but this word has no meaning nor existed in Arabic grammar.
Just like the word YHVH in Hebrew.

Islam is the name of our deen/religion/creed/system (319)

Peace be with you

muslims

Objecive To practice the Quran within the next 10-30 years

The formula

It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves
(1) reciting to them His verses and
(2) purifying them and
(3) teaching them the Book and
(4) wisdom
although they were before in clear error
(62.2)

. . .

The best way to practice Islam is to read and progressively practice the Quran step by step according to its chronological revelation of the Quran. In other words, we need to study and practice Islam in the same way that Allah introduce Islam to Muhammad. Through this process, we can build a complete "TO DO LISTS" and make sure that we have complied with all commands and prohibitions in the Quran. Only then we can grasp the true understanding of the Quran and feel safe that we have fully complied with Allah's minimum requirements.

I believe there is no reason for Allah to blame us when we have followed closely all His commands and prohibitions from the Quran and according to what's within human capabilities.

Allah does not charge a soul except its capacity.
2.286

Allah does not charge a soul except what He has given it.
65.7

These are the verses of Allah
We recite them to you, in truth
and Allah wants no injustice to the worlds
3.108

Indeed, there is for him (Shaytan) no authority over those who have believed and rely upon their Lord.
16.99

And whoever submits his face to Allah while he is a doer of good
then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold
And to Allah will be the outcome of matters
31.22

And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger (the Quran)
those will be with the ones upon whom Allah has bestowed favor
of the prophets
the steadfast affirmers of truth
the martyrs and
the righteous
And excellent are those as companions
4.69

And those who have believed in Allah and His messengers (the Quran)
those are the supporters of truth and the martyrs, with their Lord
For them is their reward and their light
57.19

Summary of this process

We need to start with repentance (from obeying Thaghut) and reject sectarianism. (REFER HERE)
Focussing on the Muhkamat (practicality) and ingoring all the Mutasyaabihat (illusion) (3.7). The discussion about "sin", "reward", "heaven", "hell", "sincerity", "what is Allah" and all these kind of things is useless and waste of energy because it does not relate to the "deen" (way of life, practicality..now!). Allah only requires us to believe and ignore all these kind of things. These things cause the Ummah to live in illusion and hindered from progressing in the real world.
Know what a human being is supposed to do, and do it... ie. focussing on the "deen" (way or system of life, ie. practicality, now! and not hereafter) and what's within human capabilities. Ignore all verses that within Allah's prerogatives. We are not God, but human beings. (refer here)
List all the prohibitions from the Quran and practice it in our life. (must comply, all!)
List all the commands from the Quran and practice it in our life. (bonus, do our best!)
Move to the next chapter, only when we have fully completed current chapter.

For example, Allah command us to read the Quran in the first chapter. This is our first assignment. Once we have read and fully understand the first chapter, we can move to the second chapter. Allah commands us to remain strong on the straight path and ignore the disbelievers. In the next chapter, Allah commands us to pray during the night to get the strength and true understanding of His ayat. Then we must vigorously practice what we have learned from His ayat ...and so on. This is how Allah introduce Islam to Muhammad, step by step.

Always remember not to move to the next chapter until we have completed current chapter.

The chronological revelation of the Quran.

| https//www.google.com/help/hc/images/sites_icon_arrow_down_small.gif | Mekah | 34 | Qaf | 50

| https//www.google.com/help/hc/images/sites_icon_arrow_down_small.gif | Mekah | 38 | Sad | 38

| https//www.google.com/help/hc/images/sites_icon_arrow_down_small.gif | Mekah | 52 | Hud | 11

| | Living in the Muslim Society/ Country | | Jurisprudence - Duty to setup an Islamic Country |

muslims

INTRODUCTION

TO-DO LIST Al-Alaq

COMMAND

http//track2run.in/r.gif Read the Quran and i'ktikad (creed) to make the Quran as our main guidance

PROHIBITION

http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not disobey Allah
http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not obey the disbelievers to commit injustice

LIKE

http//track2run.in/r.gif I'ktikad (creed) to remain on the straight path
http//track2run.in/r.gif I'ktikad (creed) to rely on Allah alone
http//track2run.in/r.gif I'ktikad (creed) to bring balance and justice in our life

DISLIKE

http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not trangress Allah's prohibitions
http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not make rules that contradict the Quran and lie it is from Allah

mohamad_itani

really interesting ,yes it gives this understanding when read chronologically.
i would always want to find a clue from the quran as to how to number the suras.
it is difficult for me to really go with historical givens .still your feedback is right on.
i disagree with you when you say prayer ,prayer is different from reading quran.prayer is dua and is found in some form in the quran itself.
i do find that salat is different from prayer as well.
salat is translated as prayer but really all what prayer is is duaa .
yet salat is to do something at a certain end times of day ,or as quran states at the two sides of day.
please don't get me wrong i admire how you understand the chronology and might see more meaning in it like that .
through experience i doubt all but the quran ,i find that there is always meaning in it regardless how you number the suras .
as what we need to be doing through salat , it still baffles me ,i don't have a clear picture ,one is for sure.it might mean to stop and wait.
it might mean that what ever you are doing,you need to stop and wait during those periods. two ends of day.stand still or sit.they are not for you to do any thing during those times.
yasla el nara wait for fire.
how could i put it into words ,like this is not your time ,stop what you are doing and wait till it passes by.
strange ,my understanding of this always progresses ,one needs to have his eyes closed as well.as if we are not even supposed to see during salat.even the action of seeing moving or speaking is prohibited during salat. complete silence .
i might be wrong ,but keep an open mind ,peace to you .
my conclusion is based on relating many ayas together to get a better picture of some words that i found contradiction in ,when often related meaning from arab scholars where given.
so i went to find new meanings by comparing those words in the quran.
eg.
saq= eye lids
haram = middle or median.
ashhur hurum = middle month form the start of year or rebirth of life (spring)
al thul or thillal = the light.
sujud = eyes closed
peace again to you all.
i might be very wrong ,yet keep an open mind.

muslims

I don't mind and since life is about Sunnatullah and therefore... there is no such thing as right or wrong, but there is only issue of accuracy and perspectives.

The interpretation of ibadah is questionable. I doubt on the interpretation of salah, zakat, swam and hajj since Islam is not a religion and many verses have been misinterpreted and contradicting with other verses from the Quran. However I have no objection to follow these rituals since human being do need spirituality.

Therefore, the only issue is on the interpretation of the verses relating to Ibada.

What is salah?
What is sadaqah?
What is swam?
What is hajj?

I believe the closest interpretation is to understand the meaning through its objective. This means we need to enlarge our context so as to include every action within its objective. Below is the objective of solah, sadaqah, swam and hajj.. including some of philosophical statement to help understand the context of this discussion.

| Analogy | Ibada | Objective | Verse

| Fire | Salah | Justly balanced | "..prayer prohibits immorality and wrongdoing.." (2945)

| Air | Swam | Righteousness | "..decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous.." (2183)

| Water | Sadaqah | Purification | "..Take from their wealth a charity by which you purify them and cause them increase.." (9103)

| Earth | Hajj | Gratefulness | "..That they may witness benefits for themselves and mention the name of Allah.." (222

For example, let say we take the meaning of salah.

We are performing Salah when we are not committing immorality and wrongdoing acts in our lives. This may include many things that are related to the prevention of immorality and wrongdoing acts, and it is not limited to the ritual movement what we know today.

The following is just a philosophical statement from wudhu and salat.

| Steps/Wudhu | | Implication

| Water | | We have benefitting self, family and society.

| Niyyah | | Repentace and i'ktikad to be on the straight path.

| Hands | | Guard our hands from doing wrongful acts etc.

| Mouth | | Guard our mouth from saying bad things etc.

| Face | | Guard our action so that we are not a hypocrite etc.

| Forearm | | Guard our effort from abetting the criminals/injustice.

| Head | | Never obey the disbelievers or injustice.

| Ear | | Ignore everything and remain focus on the straight path.

| Feet | | Walk straight to Allah.

| Dua | | Ask for Allah help to be on this path.

| Remain in wudhu | | Istiqamah.. and never nullifies the above actions with immorality and wrongdoing.

| Standing | | South.. Fire.. Energy / Motivation / Direction . . . (hablum minallah)

| Ruku | | West.. Air.. Communication / Relationship . . . (hablum minannas)

| Sitting | | East... Water... Knowledge / Expertise . . . (hablum minannas)

| Prostration | | North.. Earth... Humble / Persistence . . . (hablum minallah)

It's priority and importance..

https//encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbnANd9GcRSY6j1JokDO4Avh8F2POMIb_w2NkOxOh-WdTLbbrgMUgI09ezNhg

We are performing salah when we are practicing all the above in our lives.

These are my views.

mohamad_itani

interestingly put theses linguistic associations you use.
i think dean is the balance of justice so man will not betray neither man nor Allah.
it is the thin line between doing what is right and what is wrong.
"rabana thabit aqdamana"
as for salat it has a time .
you said that iblees is in us in our selves.
that is very true ,man shares his body with the "qureen" .
that same thing "qureen" is in our bodies ,i believe it is the very nervous system we have ,or very much in it,if you compare stories of (OBE)'s and dreams and all that you find out that most of the memories people have are of the "qureen'.even some have claimed reincarnation and proved it. that is the memory of the "Qureen" associated with our experiences as well.
it seems we can remember through this "qureen" ,the Qureen is what we use to actually be productive.but in no way it should be taken for decision making.
we are influenced by it but our decisions are our decisions.
humans where intended to be bodies of light just like angels where only adam did not do as ordered so he was let down with "bliss" together on this planet one with the other in one body.
we have this duality in us all ,our system yet needs to be understood.the mirror neurone and all those body maps . and the brain that changes itself. our memories.
peace to you all.

David_Saidi

Peace be upon you

First sorry to accuse you for being an atheist.

First your presentation is magnificient, you tried to define God's teaching by intellectual remarks.
But as Muhammad Itani said, your intepretation of the Quran still diverted and often highly traditional Ahadith influence.
Plus you gave the wrong ways for using the Arabic words.

Example

Standing South.. Fire.. Energy / Motivation / Direction . . . (hablum minallah)
Ruku West.. Air.. Communication / Relationship . . . (hablum minannas)
Sitting East... Water... Knowledge / Expertise . . . (hablum minannas)
Prostration North.. Earth... Humble / Persistence . . . (hablum minallah)

I believe what you mean standing, ruku, sitting and prostation is the part of salat.

Hablum minnanas = relations between humans
Hablum mimallah = relations between humans and their Deity.

I believe salat is hablum minallah not hablum minannas.

Plus there are some interestings

There is no evidence in the Quran
that Iblees prostrate to any other than Allah

Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

Iblees is "Allah Alone"
"He refused and he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers" (234)
Because Iblees is trying to outsmart Allah's command.

Iblees was ordered to sujud to Adam but he refused and made a pledge if he will mislead the humans.

Okay, and yes, I don't believe in God/god... because I believe the Quran.

I don't understand what you mean, please explain

muslims

Peace be upon you

First sorry to accuse you for being an atheist.

First your presentation is magnificient, you tried to define God's teaching by intellectual remarks.
But as Muhammad Itani said, your intepretation of the Quran still diverted and often highly traditional Ahadith influence.

No need to say sorry
I'm an atheist.. and a Sunni, and also a Shia.
Therefore, I follow the hadith, and all religious books from other religions.

no "religion" has a monopoly on truth and believe it or not, we are all those things, at one time or another.

and because, it is a "religion"

. . .

Plus you gave the wrong ways for using the Arabic words.

Example

I believe what you mean standing, ruku, sitting and prostation is the part of salat.

Hablum minnanas = relations between humans
Hablum mimallah = relations between humans and their Deity.

I believe salat is hablum minallah not hablum minannas.

No, that's not what I mean....

The following is just a philosophical statement from wudhu and salat.

. . .

Plus there are some interestings

Iblees was ordered to sujud to Adam but he refused and made a pledge if he will mislead the humans.

Therefore, Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

. . .

I don't understand what you mean, please explain

Allah is not God/god

Say, "He is Allah , One
Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born
Nor is there to Him any equivalent
1121-4

muslims

Main
Previous Assignment

TO-DO LIST Al-Qalam

Theme Do not follow the liars, who distorting Allah's rules and judge not according the Quran.

COMMAND

http//track2run.in/r.gif Be patient on the straight path. (684
http//track2run.in/r.gif Quran is a reminder for the worlds. (6852)

PROHIBITION

http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not obey the deniers (lie, distort, invent or disobey Allah's commands/prohibitions etc). (688 )
http//track2run.in/r.gif ie. Primarily those who are lowly swearer, a slanderer, a backbiter, forbidder of charity, a transgressor, a sinner, the unappreciative, and greedy. (6810-13)

LIKE

http//track2run.in/r.gif Strive for a high moral character. (684)

DISLIKE

http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not strayed off from Allah's path. (687)
http//track2run.in/r.gif Allah's revelations are not "Fictional tales of old!" (6815)
http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not lie or distorting Allah's rules and turn the submitter into criminals. (6835-41)

David_Saidi

Therefore, I follow the hadith, and all religious books from other religions.

456 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative (hadith) after God and His revelations do
they believe?

7750 So in what narrative (hadith), after it, will they believe?

Hadith = narrations, stories, sayings . Quran is God's hadith and no one else even the Bible you see.

Therefore, Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

No verses said this.

Allah is not God/god

Allah is God in english while god is ilah, rabb in Arabic.

Allah = Al + Ilah, the Deity of milat Abraham (Abraham monotheism).
The proof is Christian and Judaic Arab also used the word "Allah".

http//www.copticchurch.net/cgibin/bible/index.php?r=Psalm%20502,23&version=SVD&showVN=1

That is Psalm in Arabic and notice the word "Allah" in there.

muslims

456 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative (hadith) after God and His revelations do
they believe?

7750 So in what narrative (hadith), after it, will they believe?

Hadith = narrations, stories, sayings . Quran is God's hadith and no one else even the Bible you see.

What is the context of the whole Quran?

Do you follow the man-made law?

Does it sound reasonable to disobey the man-made law?

No verses said this.

to Him have submitted those within the heavens and earth (3.83)

Where is Iblees?

Therefore, it is very clear and it includes, Iblees...

Allah is God in english while god is ilah in Arabic.

Allah = Al + Ilah, the Deity of milat Abraham (Abraham monotheism).
The proof is Christian and Judaic Arab also used the word "Allah".

http//www.copticchurch.net/cgibin/bible/index.php?r=Psalm%20502,23&version=SVD&showVN=1

That is Psalm in Arabic and notice the word "Allah" in there.

This is also very clear..

Say, "He is Allah , One
Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born
Nor is there to Him any equivalent
1121-4

Therefore, how many God/god(s) that you know?
Obviously it is a "duality concept"..
ie. "equivalent" to the same category of "God/god(s)"

But it is okay because Allah introduce Himself as God to those who are only understand the concept of Godliness
However, chapter 112 is the "definition provision" for the true meaning of Allah.
You can choose whatever is best for you.

David_Saidi

What is the context of the whole Quran?

Do you follow man-made law?

That verses are literally said, explicitly and clearly.
I don't follow man-made law, I follow the Quran, the God's words and always ask Him if I find difficulties.

to Him have submitted those within the heavens and earth (3.83)

Wrong translation.
The word doesn't exist in Arabic text.
I believe you still follow traditional Sunni-Shia theology.

Therefore, how may God/god that you know?
Obviously it is a "duality concept"..
ie. equivalent to the concept of Godliness .. "equivalent" to the same category of "God/god"

But it is okay because Allah introduce Himself as God to those who are only understand the concept of Godliness
However, chapter 112 is the "definition provision" for the true meaning of Allah.
You can choose whatever is best for you.

Duality concept is Christian man-made theology/tafseer, the Scripture doesn't spoke about it.

Judaism,Christian, Islam has same origins, but different teologically.
The Deity of Abrahman monotheiist is Allah (Arabic), lh (Aramaic), Elohim (Hebrew), God (English).
Even both of this three religion claims the worshipp the same GOD, but their definition of GOD (theos) differs each other

muslims

That verses are literally said, explicitly and clearly.
I don't follow man-made law, I follow the Quran, the God's words and always ask Him if I find difficulties.

In that case, you are the first person I know that reject the statutory laws..
and still survive to get your citizenship, proper education, medical benefits, works, electricity, internet etc.

no further comment

And We shall (also) facilitate you (to put into practice this) easy (law). (87.8 )

Wrong translation.
The word doesn't exist in Arabic text.
I believe you still follow traditional Sunni-Shia theology.

The issue is "those within the heavens and earth", and your issues are

Whether "those within the heavens and earth" is referring to ""?
Whether Iblees prostrate to Allah?

again, no further comment.

By the way, I'm referring you direct ayat from the Quran, and how does it relate to the "Sunni-Shia theology"?

Duality concept is Christian man-made theology/tafseer, the Scripture doesn't spoke about it.

Judaism,Christian, Islam has same origins, but different teologically.
The Deity of Abrahman monotheiist is Allah (Arabic), lh (Aramaic), Elohim (Hebrew), God (English).
Even both of this three religion claims the worshipp the same GOD, but their definition of GOD (theos) differs each other

You can choose whatever is best for you.

For me... Allah is "One" and "Nor is there to Him any equivalent" is the Muhkamat
and what Allah is really about is the Mutasyaabihat (3.7)
Therefore and frankly, I don't really care what Allah is all about. Sorry.

David_Saidi

In that case, you are the first person I know that reject the statutory laws..
and still survive to get proper education, works, electricity, internet etc.

Between two points, there are no relations at all.

By the way, I'm referring you direct ayat from the Quran, and how does it relate to the "Sunni-Shia theology".

You used Sunni's translation and the translation is highly Ahadith influences.
Means you follow Sunni but don't know if you actuallfy following it.

For me... Allah is One is the Muhkamat, and what Allah is really about is the Mutasyaabihat (3.7)

Allah is clearly defined in the Quran.
From the Quran/wahy itself Allah introduce Himself

muslims

Between two points, there are no relations at all.

Hadith is a "man-made law", whether it is from Muhammad or not.

You used Sunni's translation and the translation is highly Ahadith influences.
Means you follow Sunni but don't know if you actuallfy following it.

Why don't you stick to the fact rather than relying on fallacy and ad hominem to make your point
It is irrelevant, and a waste of time and energy...
In fact, it is not an argument at all

Now... the issue you raise have no merits..
Everything prostate to Allah, including Iblees...
Because Allah is the Creator
and Iblees is quite somebody, because he was with the angels when Allah commanded him to prostrate to Adam..

Bring me a verse from the Quran that says Iblees do not prostrate to Allah
This is your burden of proof

Allah is clearly defined in the Quran.
From the Quran/wahy itself Allah introduce Himself

Allah is clearly defined in the Quran as "One", this is the Muhkamat
and Allay says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent", this is also the Muhkamat

Therefore, the issue you raise have no merits because your argument is.. Allah is God, in Islam
However ..
Christians says, Jesus is God!
Jews says, YHVH is God!
Hinduist says, Lord Shiva is God!
Chinese says.. God!
Buddhist says.. God!
and so on...

There are many God(s)

Therefore, the concept of "God(s)" is equivalent, the One True Creator in all those religions
All those God(s) belong to the same category
They are "equivalent"
But Allah says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent"

David_Saidi

Hadith is a "man-made law", whether it is from Muhammad or not.

Yes, of course

Why don't you stick to the fact rather than relying on fallacy and ad hominem to make your point
It is irrelevant, and a waste of time and energy...
In fact, it is not an argument at all

Yes, and yourself did some "burden of proof".
You keep used Sunni theology to discuss with me, while myself don't recognized it.

Aristoles Fallacy the most hypocryte methodolgy used to divert the issues (to make the users keep for being stubborn).

Ad hominem right ?? In verse 218, 217, Did God Himself also ad hominem

Allah is clearly defined in the Quran as "One", this is the Muhkamat
and Allay says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent", this is also the Muhkamat

Therefore, the issue you raise have no merits because your argument is Allah is God, in Islam
However ..
Christians says, Jesus is God!
Jews says, YHVH is God!
Hinduist says, Lord Shiva is God!
Chinese says.. God!
Buddhist says.. God!
and so on...

There are many God(s)

Therefore, the concept of "God(s)" is equivalent, the One True Creator in all those religions
All those God(s) belong to the same category
They are "equivalent"
But Allah says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent"

Please learn diffences between God and god in english
Allah is singular and the plural form is Alihah, so this is not a proper noun

muslims

Yes, of course

I have proven both the hadith and the statutory laws are "man-made law".

Therefore, the ideology to reject the hadith is totally unrealistic and exhibiting a lack of common sense.

| You | | 7750 So in what narrative (hadith), after it, will they believe?
Hadith = narrations, stories, sayings . Quran is God's hadith and no one else even the Bible you see.

| Me | | What is the context of the whole Quran?
Do you follow the man-made law?

| You | | I don't follow man-made law

| Me | | In that case, you are the first person I know that reject the statutory laws..
and still survive to get your citizenship, proper education, medical benefits, works, electricity, internet etc.

| You | | Between two points, there are no relations at all.

| Me | | Hadith is a "man-made law", whether it is from Muhammad or not.

| You | | Yes, of course

. . .

Yes, and yourself did some "burden of proof".
You keep used Sunni theology to discuss with me, while myself don't recognized it.

So it is a "Sunni/Shia Theology" simply because it has "" in its translation?
This is your issue?
Find out what is the meaning of bracket () in that translation...

and please be realistic, and less of a sectarian.

| Me | | There is no evidence in the Quran
that Iblees prostrate to any other than Allah
Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"
Iblees is "Allah Alone"
"He refused and he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers" (234)
Because Iblees is trying to outsmart Allah's command.

| You | | Iblees was ordered to sujud to Adam but he refused and made a pledge if he will mislead the humans.

| Me | | Therefore, Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

| You | | No verses said this.

| Me | | to Him have submitted those within the heavens and earth (3.83)
Where is Iblees?
Therefore, it is very clear and it includes, Iblees...

| You | | Wrong translation.
The word doesn't exist in Arabic text.
I believe you still follow traditional Sunni-Shia theology.

| Me | | The issue is "those within the heavens and earth", and your issues are

Whether "those within the heavens and earth" is referring to ""?
Whether Iblees prostrate to Allah?
again, no further comment.
By the way, I'm referring you direct ayat from the Quran, and how does it relate to the "Sunni-Shia theology"?

| You | | You used Sunni's translation and the translation is highly Ahadith influences.
Means you follow Sunni but don't know if you actuallfy following it.

| Me | | Now... the issue you raise have no merits..
Everything prostate to Allah, including Iblees...
Because Allah is the Creator
and Iblees is quite somebody, because he was with the angels when Allah commanded him to prostrate to Adam..
Bring me a verse from the Quran that says Iblees do not prostrate to Allah
This is your burden of proof

| You | | Yes, and yourself did some "burden of proof".
You keep used Sunni theology to discuss with me, while myself don't recognized it.

. . .

Aristoles Fallacy the most hypocryte methodolgy used to divert the issues (to make the users keep for being stubborn).

Ad hominem right ?? In verse 218, 217, Did God Himself also ad hominem

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person&quot, short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.

It usually involves attacking the traits of an opponent as a means to invalidate their arguments.

Why don't you stick to the fact rather than relying on fallacy and ad hominem to make your point
It is irrelevant, and a waste of time and energy...
In fact, it is not an argument at all

. . .

Please learn diffences between God and god in english
Allah is singular and the plural form is Alihah, so this is not a proper noun

The is issue about "Nor is there to Him any equivalent"

Not about the meaning of "God" or "god"
(I hope Muhammad has no trouble to differentiate the pronunciation of "God" and "god" from Gabriel )

There are many God(s)

Therefore, the concept of "God(s)" is equivalent, the One True Creator in all those religions
All those God(s) belong to the same category
They are "equivalent"
But Allah says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent"