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  4. What is Islam?

What is Islam?

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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    muslims
    wrote on last edited by
    #417

    INTRODUCTION

    TO-DO LIST Al-Alaq

    COMMAND

    http//track2run.in/r.gif Read the Quran and i'ktikad (creed) to make the Quran as our main guidance

    PROHIBITION

    http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not disobey Allah
    http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not obey the disbelievers to commit injustice

    LIKE

    http//track2run.in/r.gif I'ktikad (creed) to remain on the straight path
    http//track2run.in/r.gif I'ktikad (creed) to rely on Allah alone
    http//track2run.in/r.gif I'ktikad (creed) to bring balance and justice in our life

    DISLIKE

    http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not trangress Allah's prohibitions
    http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not make rules that contradict the Quran and lie it is from Allah

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      mohamad_itani
      wrote on last edited by
      #418

      really interesting ,yes it gives this understanding when read chronologically.
      i would always want to find a clue from the quran as to how to number the suras.
      it is difficult for me to really go with historical givens .still your feedback is right on.
      i disagree with you when you say prayer ,prayer is different from reading quran.prayer is dua and is found in some form in the quran itself.
      i do find that salat is different from prayer as well.
      salat is translated as prayer but really all what prayer is is duaa .
      yet salat is to do something at a certain end times of day ,or as quran states at the two sides of day.
      please don't get me wrong i admire how you understand the chronology and might see more meaning in it like that .
      through experience i doubt all but the quran ,i find that there is always meaning in it regardless how you number the suras .
      as what we need to be doing through salat , it still baffles me ,i don't have a clear picture ,one is for sure.it might mean to stop and wait.
      it might mean that what ever you are doing,you need to stop and wait during those periods. two ends of day.stand still or sit.they are not for you to do any thing during those times.
      yasla el nara wait for fire.
      how could i put it into words ,like this is not your time ,stop what you are doing and wait till it passes by.
      strange ,my understanding of this always progresses ,one needs to have his eyes closed as well.as if we are not even supposed to see during salat.even the action of seeing moving or speaking is prohibited during salat. complete silence .
      i might be wrong ,but keep an open mind ,peace to you .
      my conclusion is based on relating many ayas together to get a better picture of some words that i found contradiction in ,when often related meaning from arab scholars where given.
      so i went to find new meanings by comparing those words in the quran.
      eg.
      saq= eye lids
      haram = middle or median.
      ashhur hurum = middle month form the start of year or rebirth of life (spring)
      al thul or thillal = the light.
      sujud = eyes closed
      peace again to you all.
      i might be very wrong ,yet keep an open mind.

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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        muslims
        wrote on last edited by
        #419

        I don't mind and since life is about Sunnatullah and therefore... there is no such thing as right or wrong, but there is only issue of accuracy and perspectives.

        The interpretation of ibadah is questionable. I doubt on the interpretation of salah, zakat, swam and hajj since Islam is not a religion and many verses have been misinterpreted and contradicting with other verses from the Quran. However I have no objection to follow these rituals since human being do need spirituality.

        Therefore, the only issue is on the interpretation of the verses relating to Ibada.

        What is salah?
        What is sadaqah?
        What is swam?
        What is hajj?

        I believe the closest interpretation is to understand the meaning through its objective. This means we need to enlarge our context so as to include every action within its objective. Below is the objective of solah, sadaqah, swam and hajj.. including some of philosophical statement to help understand the context of this discussion.

        | Analogy | Ibada | Objective | Verse

        | Fire | Salah | Justly balanced | "..prayer prohibits immorality and wrongdoing.." (2945)

        | Air | Swam | Righteousness | "..decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous.." (2183)

        | Water | Sadaqah | Purification | "..Take from their wealth a charity by which you purify them and cause them increase.." (9103)

        | Earth | Hajj | Gratefulness | "..That they may witness benefits for themselves and mention the name of Allah.." (222

        For example, let say we take the meaning of salah.

        We are performing Salah when we are not committing immorality and wrongdoing acts in our lives. This may include many things that are related to the prevention of immorality and wrongdoing acts, and it is not limited to the ritual movement what we know today.

        The following is just a philosophical statement from wudhu and salat.

        | Steps/Wudhu | | Implication

        | Water | | We have benefitting self, family and society.

        | Niyyah | | Repentace and i'ktikad to be on the straight path.

        | Hands | | Guard our hands from doing wrongful acts etc.

        | Mouth | | Guard our mouth from saying bad things etc.

        | Face | | Guard our action so that we are not a hypocrite etc.

        | Forearm | | Guard our effort from abetting the criminals/injustice.

        | Head | | Never obey the disbelievers or injustice.

        | Ear | | Ignore everything and remain focus on the straight path.

        | Feet | | Walk straight to Allah.

        | Dua | | Ask for Allah help to be on this path.

        | Remain in wudhu | | Istiqamah.. and never nullifies the above actions with immorality and wrongdoing.

        | Standing | | South.. Fire.. Energy / Motivation / Direction . . . (hablum minallah)

        | Ruku | | West.. Air.. Communication / Relationship . . . (hablum minannas)

        | Sitting | | East... Water... Knowledge / Expertise . . . (hablum minannas)

        | Prostration | | North.. Earth... Humble / Persistence . . . (hablum minallah)

        It's priority and importance..

        https//encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbnANd9GcRSY6j1JokDO4Avh8F2POMIb_w2NkOxOh-WdTLbbrgMUgI09ezNhg

        We are performing salah when we are practicing all the above in our lives.

        These are my views.

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          mohamad_itani
          wrote on last edited by
          #420

          interestingly put theses linguistic associations you use.
          i think dean is the balance of justice so man will not betray neither man nor Allah.
          it is the thin line between doing what is right and what is wrong.
          "rabana thabit aqdamana"
          as for salat it has a time .
          you said that iblees is in us in our selves.
          that is very true ,man shares his body with the "qureen" .
          that same thing "qureen" is in our bodies ,i believe it is the very nervous system we have ,or very much in it,if you compare stories of (OBE)'s and dreams and all that you find out that most of the memories people have are of the "qureen'.even some have claimed reincarnation and proved it. that is the memory of the "Qureen" associated with our experiences as well.
          it seems we can remember through this "qureen" ,the Qureen is what we use to actually be productive.but in no way it should be taken for decision making.
          we are influenced by it but our decisions are our decisions.
          humans where intended to be bodies of light just like angels where only adam did not do as ordered so he was let down with "bliss" together on this planet one with the other in one body.
          we have this duality in us all ,our system yet needs to be understood.the mirror neurone and all those body maps . and the brain that changes itself. our memories.
          peace to you all.

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          • D Offline
            D Offline
            David_Saidi
            wrote on last edited by
            #421

            Peace be upon you

            First sorry to accuse you for being an atheist.

            First your presentation is magnificient, you tried to define God's teaching by intellectual remarks.
            But as Muhammad Itani said, your intepretation of the Quran still diverted and often highly traditional Ahadith influence.
            Plus you gave the wrong ways for using the Arabic words.

            Example

            Standing South.. Fire.. Energy / Motivation / Direction . . . (hablum minallah)
            Ruku West.. Air.. Communication / Relationship . . . (hablum minannas)
            Sitting East... Water... Knowledge / Expertise . . . (hablum minannas)
            Prostration North.. Earth... Humble / Persistence . . . (hablum minallah)

            I believe what you mean standing, ruku, sitting and prostation is the part of salat.

            Hablum minnanas = relations between humans
            Hablum mimallah = relations between humans and their Deity.

            I believe salat is hablum minallah not hablum minannas.

            Plus there are some interestings

            There is no evidence in the Quran
            that Iblees prostrate to any other than Allah

            Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

            Iblees is "Allah Alone"
            "He refused and he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers" (234)
            Because Iblees is trying to outsmart Allah's command.

            Iblees was ordered to sujud to Adam but he refused and made a pledge if he will mislead the humans.

            Okay, and yes, I don't believe in God/god... because I believe the Quran.

            I don't understand what you mean, please explain

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              muslims
              wrote on last edited by
              #422

              Peace be upon you

              First sorry to accuse you for being an atheist.

              First your presentation is magnificient, you tried to define God's teaching by intellectual remarks.
              But as Muhammad Itani said, your intepretation of the Quran still diverted and often highly traditional Ahadith influence.

              No need to say sorry
              I'm an atheist.. and a Sunni, and also a Shia.
              Therefore, I follow the hadith, and all religious books from other religions.

              no "religion" has a monopoly on truth and believe it or not, we are all those things, at one time or another.

              and because, it is a "religion"

              . . .

              Plus you gave the wrong ways for using the Arabic words.

              Example

              I believe what you mean standing, ruku, sitting and prostation is the part of salat.

              Hablum minnanas = relations between humans
              Hablum mimallah = relations between humans and their Deity.

              I believe salat is hablum minallah not hablum minannas.

              No, that's not what I mean....

              The following is just a philosophical statement from wudhu and salat.

              . . .

              Plus there are some interestings

              Iblees was ordered to sujud to Adam but he refused and made a pledge if he will mislead the humans.

              Therefore, Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

              . . .

              I don't understand what you mean, please explain

              Allah is not God/god

              Say, "He is Allah , One
              Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
              He neither begets nor is born
              Nor is there to Him any equivalent
              1121-4

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                muslims
                wrote on last edited by
                #423

                Main
                Previous Assignment

                TO-DO LIST Al-Qalam

                Theme Do not follow the liars, who distorting Allah's rules and judge not according the Quran.

                COMMAND

                http//track2run.in/r.gif Be patient on the straight path. (684
                http//track2run.in/r.gif Quran is a reminder for the worlds. (6852)

                PROHIBITION

                http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not obey the deniers (lie, distort, invent or disobey Allah's commands/prohibitions etc). (688 )
                http//track2run.in/r.gif ie. Primarily those who are lowly swearer, a slanderer, a backbiter, forbidder of charity, a transgressor, a sinner, the unappreciative, and greedy. (6810-13)

                LIKE

                http//track2run.in/r.gif Strive for a high moral character. (684)

                DISLIKE

                http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not strayed off from Allah's path. (687)
                http//track2run.in/r.gif Allah's revelations are not "Fictional tales of old!" (6815)
                http//track2run.in/r.gif Do not lie or distorting Allah's rules and turn the submitter into criminals. (6835-41)

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                • D Offline
                  D Offline
                  David_Saidi
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #424

                  Therefore, I follow the hadith, and all religious books from other religions.

                  456 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative (hadith) after God and His revelations do
                  they believe?

                  7750 So in what narrative (hadith), after it, will they believe?

                  Hadith = narrations, stories, sayings . Quran is God's hadith and no one else even the Bible you see.

                  Therefore, Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

                  No verses said this.

                  Allah is not God/god

                  Allah is God in english while god is ilah, rabb in Arabic.

                  Allah = Al + Ilah, the Deity of milat Abraham (Abraham monotheism).
                  The proof is Christian and Judaic Arab also used the word "Allah".

                  http//www.copticchurch.net/cgibin/bible/index.php?r=Psalm%20502,23&version=SVD&showVN=1

                  That is Psalm in Arabic and notice the word "Allah" in there.

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    muslims
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #425

                    456 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative (hadith) after God and His revelations do
                    they believe?

                    7750 So in what narrative (hadith), after it, will they believe?

                    Hadith = narrations, stories, sayings . Quran is God's hadith and no one else even the Bible you see.

                    What is the context of the whole Quran?

                    Do you follow the man-made law?

                    Does it sound reasonable to disobey the man-made law?

                    No verses said this.

                    to Him have submitted those within the heavens and earth (3.83)

                    Where is Iblees?

                    Therefore, it is very clear and it includes, Iblees...

                    Allah is God in english while god is ilah in Arabic.

                    Allah = Al + Ilah, the Deity of milat Abraham (Abraham monotheism).
                    The proof is Christian and Judaic Arab also used the word "Allah".

                    http//www.copticchurch.net/cgibin/bible/index.php?r=Psalm%20502,23&version=SVD&showVN=1

                    That is Psalm in Arabic and notice the word "Allah" in there.

                    This is also very clear..

                    Say, "He is Allah , One
                    Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
                    He neither begets nor is born
                    Nor is there to Him any equivalent
                    1121-4

                    Therefore, how many God/god(s) that you know?
                    Obviously it is a "duality concept"..
                    ie. "equivalent" to the same category of "God/god(s)"

                    But it is okay because Allah introduce Himself as God to those who are only understand the concept of Godliness
                    However, chapter 112 is the "definition provision" for the true meaning of Allah.
                    You can choose whatever is best for you.

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                    • D Offline
                      D Offline
                      David_Saidi
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #426

                      What is the context of the whole Quran?

                      Do you follow man-made law?

                      That verses are literally said, explicitly and clearly.
                      I don't follow man-made law, I follow the Quran, the God's words and always ask Him if I find difficulties.

                      to Him have submitted those within the heavens and earth (3.83)

                      Wrong translation.
                      The word doesn't exist in Arabic text.
                      I believe you still follow traditional Sunni-Shia theology.

                      Therefore, how may God/god that you know?
                      Obviously it is a "duality concept"..
                      ie. equivalent to the concept of Godliness .. "equivalent" to the same category of "God/god"

                      But it is okay because Allah introduce Himself as God to those who are only understand the concept of Godliness
                      However, chapter 112 is the "definition provision" for the true meaning of Allah.
                      You can choose whatever is best for you.

                      Duality concept is Christian man-made theology/tafseer, the Scripture doesn't spoke about it.

                      Judaism,Christian, Islam has same origins, but different teologically.
                      The Deity of Abrahman monotheiist is Allah (Arabic), lh (Aramaic), Elohim (Hebrew), God (English).
                      Even both of this three religion claims the worshipp the same GOD, but their definition of GOD (theos) differs each other

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        muslims
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #427

                        That verses are literally said, explicitly and clearly.
                        I don't follow man-made law, I follow the Quran, the God's words and always ask Him if I find difficulties.

                        In that case, you are the first person I know that reject the statutory laws..
                        and still survive to get your citizenship, proper education, medical benefits, works, electricity, internet etc.

                        no further comment

                        And We shall (also) facilitate you (to put into practice this) easy (law). (87.8 )

                        Wrong translation.
                        The word doesn't exist in Arabic text.
                        I believe you still follow traditional Sunni-Shia theology.

                        The issue is "those within the heavens and earth", and your issues are

                        1. Whether "those within the heavens and earth" is referring to ""?
                        2. Whether Iblees prostrate to Allah?

                        again, no further comment.

                        By the way, I'm referring you direct ayat from the Quran, and how does it relate to the "Sunni-Shia theology"?

                        Duality concept is Christian man-made theology/tafseer, the Scripture doesn't spoke about it.

                        Judaism,Christian, Islam has same origins, but different teologically.
                        The Deity of Abrahman monotheiist is Allah (Arabic), lh (Aramaic), Elohim (Hebrew), God (English).
                        Even both of this three religion claims the worshipp the same GOD, but their definition of GOD (theos) differs each other

                        You can choose whatever is best for you.

                        For me... Allah is "One" and "Nor is there to Him any equivalent" is the Muhkamat
                        and what Allah is really about is the Mutasyaabihat (3.7)
                        Therefore and frankly, I don't really care what Allah is all about. Sorry.

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                        • D Offline
                          D Offline
                          David_Saidi
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #428

                          In that case, you are the first person I know that reject the statutory laws..
                          and still survive to get proper education, works, electricity, internet etc.

                          Between two points, there are no relations at all.

                          By the way, I'm referring you direct ayat from the Quran, and how does it relate to the "Sunni-Shia theology".

                          You used Sunni's translation and the translation is highly Ahadith influences.
                          Means you follow Sunni but don't know if you actuallfy following it.

                          For me... Allah is One is the Muhkamat, and what Allah is really about is the Mutasyaabihat (3.7)

                          Allah is clearly defined in the Quran.
                          From the Quran/wahy itself Allah introduce Himself

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            muslims
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #429

                            Between two points, there are no relations at all.

                            Hadith is a "man-made law", whether it is from Muhammad or not.

                            You used Sunni's translation and the translation is highly Ahadith influences.
                            Means you follow Sunni but don't know if you actuallfy following it.

                            Why don't you stick to the fact rather than relying on fallacy and ad hominem to make your point
                            It is irrelevant, and a waste of time and energy...
                            In fact, it is not an argument at all

                            Now... the issue you raise have no merits..
                            Everything prostate to Allah, including Iblees...
                            Because Allah is the Creator
                            and Iblees is quite somebody, because he was with the angels when Allah commanded him to prostrate to Adam..

                            Bring me a verse from the Quran that says Iblees do not prostrate to Allah
                            This is your burden of proof

                            Allah is clearly defined in the Quran.
                            From the Quran/wahy itself Allah introduce Himself

                            Allah is clearly defined in the Quran as "One", this is the Muhkamat
                            and Allay says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent", this is also the Muhkamat

                            Therefore, the issue you raise have no merits because your argument is.. Allah is God, in Islam
                            However ..
                            Christians says, Jesus is God!
                            Jews says, YHVH is God!
                            Hinduist says, Lord Shiva is God!
                            Chinese says.. God!
                            Buddhist says.. God!
                            and so on...

                            There are many God(s)

                            Therefore, the concept of "God(s)" is equivalent, the One True Creator in all those religions
                            All those God(s) belong to the same category
                            They are "equivalent"
                            But Allah says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent"

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                            • D Offline
                              D Offline
                              David_Saidi
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #430

                              Hadith is a "man-made law", whether it is from Muhammad or not.

                              Yes, of course

                              Why don't you stick to the fact rather than relying on fallacy and ad hominem to make your point
                              It is irrelevant, and a waste of time and energy...
                              In fact, it is not an argument at all

                              Yes, and yourself did some "burden of proof".
                              You keep used Sunni theology to discuss with me, while myself don't recognized it.

                              Aristoles Fallacy the most hypocryte methodolgy used to divert the issues (to make the users keep for being stubborn).

                              Ad hominem right ?? In verse 218, 217, Did God Himself also ad hominem

                              Allah is clearly defined in the Quran as "One", this is the Muhkamat
                              and Allay says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent", this is also the Muhkamat

                              Therefore, the issue you raise have no merits because your argument is Allah is God, in Islam
                              However ..
                              Christians says, Jesus is God!
                              Jews says, YHVH is God!
                              Hinduist says, Lord Shiva is God!
                              Chinese says.. God!
                              Buddhist says.. God!
                              and so on...

                              There are many God(s)

                              Therefore, the concept of "God(s)" is equivalent, the One True Creator in all those religions
                              All those God(s) belong to the same category
                              They are "equivalent"
                              But Allah says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent"

                              Please learn diffences between God and god in english
                              Allah is singular and the plural form is Alihah, so this is not a proper noun

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                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                muslims
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #431

                                Yes, of course

                                I have proven both the hadith and the statutory laws are "man-made law".

                                Therefore, the ideology to reject the hadith is totally unrealistic and exhibiting a lack of common sense.

                                | You | | 7750 So in what narrative (hadith), after it, will they believe?
                                Hadith = narrations, stories, sayings . Quran is God's hadith and no one else even the Bible you see.

                                | Me | | What is the context of the whole Quran?
                                Do you follow the man-made law?

                                | You | | I don't follow man-made law

                                | Me | | In that case, you are the first person I know that reject the statutory laws..
                                and still survive to get your citizenship, proper education, medical benefits, works, electricity, internet etc.

                                | You | | Between two points, there are no relations at all.

                                | Me | | Hadith is a "man-made law", whether it is from Muhammad or not.

                                | You | | Yes, of course

                                . . .

                                Yes, and yourself did some "burden of proof".
                                You keep used Sunni theology to discuss with me, while myself don't recognized it.

                                So it is a "Sunni/Shia Theology" simply because it has "" in its translation?
                                This is your issue?
                                Find out what is the meaning of bracket () in that translation...

                                and please be realistic, and less of a sectarian.

                                | Me | | There is no evidence in the Quran
                                that Iblees prostrate to any other than Allah
                                Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"
                                Iblees is "Allah Alone"
                                "He refused and he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers" (234)
                                Because Iblees is trying to outsmart Allah's command.

                                | You | | Iblees was ordered to sujud to Adam but he refused and made a pledge if he will mislead the humans.

                                | Me | | Therefore, Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

                                | You | | No verses said this.

                                | Me | | to Him have submitted those within the heavens and earth (3.83)
                                Where is Iblees?
                                Therefore, it is very clear and it includes, Iblees...

                                | You | | Wrong translation.
                                The word doesn't exist in Arabic text.
                                I believe you still follow traditional Sunni-Shia theology.

                                | Me | | The issue is "those within the heavens and earth", and your issues are

                                1. Whether "those within the heavens and earth" is referring to ""?
                                2. Whether Iblees prostrate to Allah?
                                  again, no further comment.
                                  By the way, I'm referring you direct ayat from the Quran, and how does it relate to the "Sunni-Shia theology"?

                                | You | | You used Sunni's translation and the translation is highly Ahadith influences.
                                Means you follow Sunni but don't know if you actuallfy following it.

                                | Me | | Now... the issue you raise have no merits..
                                Everything prostate to Allah, including Iblees...
                                Because Allah is the Creator
                                and Iblees is quite somebody, because he was with the angels when Allah commanded him to prostrate to Adam..
                                Bring me a verse from the Quran that says Iblees do not prostrate to Allah
                                This is your burden of proof

                                | You | | Yes, and yourself did some "burden of proof".
                                You keep used Sunni theology to discuss with me, while myself don't recognized it.

                                . . .

                                Aristoles Fallacy the most hypocryte methodolgy used to divert the issues (to make the users keep for being stubborn).

                                Ad hominem right ?? In verse 218, 217, Did God Himself also ad hominem

                                An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person&quot, short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.

                                It usually involves attacking the traits of an opponent as a means to invalidate their arguments.

                                Why don't you stick to the fact rather than relying on fallacy and ad hominem to make your point
                                It is irrelevant, and a waste of time and energy...
                                In fact, it is not an argument at all

                                . . .

                                Please learn diffences between God and god in english
                                Allah is singular and the plural form is Alihah, so this is not a proper noun

                                The is issue about "Nor is there to Him any equivalent"

                                Not about the meaning of "God" or "god"
                                (I hope Muhammad has no trouble to differentiate the pronunciation of "God" and "god" from Gabriel )

                                There are many God(s)

                                Therefore, the concept of "God(s)" is equivalent, the One True Creator in all those religions
                                All those God(s) belong to the same category
                                They are "equivalent"
                                But Allah says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent"

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                                  David_Saidi
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #432

                                  I have proven both the hadith and the statutory laws are "man-made law".

                                  Therefore, the ideology to reject the hadith is totally unrealistic and exhibiting a lack of common sense.

                                  The ideology is based on the QUran.
                                  Meanwhile the hadith is full of contradictions which very untrustworthy

                                  http//asimiqbal2nd.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/contradictions.pdf
                                  http//wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith
                                  http//www.irfi.org/general/history_of_hadiths.htm

                                  or u can find many articles in this forum

                                  Hadith contradict the Quran in many aspects both theology and linguistic.
                                  It's methods for collecting it is same nonsense as like this http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/chinese_whispers_(P1155).html

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                                    muslims
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #433

                                    Hadith contradict the Quran in many aspects both theology and linguistic.

                                    Do you understand the issue?

                                    I'm not denying that many hadith are contradicting the Quran

                                    What I'm saying Muhammad is a man, and therefore the hadith is a "man made law"
                                    Whether it is from Muhammad or not, is irrelevant. . . and there are good and bad hadith

                                    Similarly and as equal to any other "man made law"
                                    There are so many laws which are full of nonsense and contradicting the Quran
                                    but you still obey the laws and accept it as part of your life (e.g. fractional banking system, or 5.51)
                                    simply because it is impossible to reject all these laws, unless you decide to live by yourself in the jungle (hopefully not)

                                    Therefore the ideology to reject the hadith and simply because it is a hadith is a half baked ideology
                                    It is totally unrealistic and exhibiting a lack of common sense

                                    Now.. .how do you explain this situation?

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                                      David_Saidi
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #434

                                      Whether it is from Muhammad or not, is irrelevant. . . and there are good and bad hadith

                                      Yes there are some good hadith, good Torah, good fabrications...
                                      But if you follow it, the analogy is You already knew if that cake poisonous, but you still dared to eat it.

                                      There are so many laws which are full of nonsense and contradicting the Quran
                                      but you still obey the laws and accept it as part of your life (e.g. fractional banking system, or 5.51)

                                      Please learn again the concept of "iman" in the Quran.
                                      Definition of iman/believe in the Quran is different for "obey", "believe" in other context.

                                      I obey the Quran but when I participate in this forum, of course I must obey the forum rules.

                                      Therefore the ideology to reject the hadith and simply because it is a hadith is totally unrealistic and exhibiting a lack of common sense

                                      Please give me some proofs

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                                        muslims
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #435

                                        I obey the Quran but when I participate in this forum, of course I must obey the forum rules.

                                        You are still unable to give the justification for your ideology, and instead.. asking irrelevant question
                                        Your ideology is inconsistent, and it is unreliable. . .

                                        Whether it is from Muhammad or not, is irrelevant. . . and there are good and bad hadith

                                        . . .

                                        There are so many laws which are full of nonsense and contradicting the Quran
                                        but you still obey the laws and accept it as part of your life (e.g. fractional banking system, or 5.51)
                                        simply because it is impossible to reject all these laws, unless you decide to live by yourself in the jungle (hopefully not)

                                        Therefore the ideology to reject the hadith and simply because it is a hadith is a half baked ideology
                                        It is totally unrealistic and exhibiting a lack of common sense

                                        Now.. .how do you explain this situation?

                                        I'm not asking again.

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                                          David_Saidi
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #436

                                          There are so many laws which are full of nonsense and contradicting the Quran
                                          but you still obey the laws and accept it as part of your life (e.g. fractional banking system, or 5.51)

                                          I think I already answered this.
                                          Another Example I obey the Quran, but when I work in a firm which has many non-muslim employees in here, so I must believe the non-Quranic rules that firm provided to us.

                                          Please see the context, Quran is not book of economy, mathematic nor constitutions , it's the guide to how to became good believer and how to reach HIS salvation.Quran is to those who believe on it

                                          Ok if I'm a chairman in a firm and some of my employees are non-muslim and it's a wrong way to implement Quranic rules in my firm (Read surah Al Kafeerun).

                                          Do you understand??

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